North Texas lawmaker introduces bill to end tolls on toll roads after they are paid off

[Houston19514]

9 minutes ago, Reefmonkey said:

So now you're accusing a reporter who was a winner of 25 local Emmys for investigative reporting, an Edward R Murrow Award, 3 medals from the Investigative Reporters and Editors Association, and 5 awards from the Texas Headliners Foundation of fabricating written source and releasing it - without any evidence to back up your assertion, mind you, just your "feeling". You're bordering on libelous behavior here. You believe what you want to believe, I'm going to believe what I remember, and yes, I am going to believe Wayne Dolcefino's reporting over your "feeling."

 

For the record, I didn't say anything about my "feelings".  I am very much evidence and fact-based. When someone produces some pre-vote evidence of the toll road "promise", I'll happily reassess.

 

If you have a chance, ask Mayor Turner about Wayne Dolcefino's reporting.

[Reefmonkey]

You mean Turner's libel lawsuit that was overturned on appeal and the appeal upheld by the Texas Supreme Court?

[Trae]

On 2/26/2019 at 7:00 AM, gmac said:

Keep the tolls AND add a penny-per-mile annual surcharge to all Texas cars. When your vehicle is inspected, your mileage is checked and you're sent a bill based on how many miles you have driven that year. Drive 20,000 miles a year? You pay an extra $200 to the state.

 

And how would the state prove that all 200 of those miles was done within the State of Texas? I don't think this plan would work. I am in favor of increasing the gas tax. An extra 5-10 cents won't break the bank. The last toll road in this stat to convert after the tolls were paid off was I-30 in DFW. I thank the DFW lawmakers for bringing this forward. If tollroads were promised to turn into free roads after being paid off, then they should. Economics change, which is why the gas tax needs to go up. It'd probably help to alleviate some traffic on certain freeways (45), but it'll definitely lead to an increase in use overall. If the West Beltway traffic is bad now, imagine if it were "free".

[gmac]

3 hours ago, Trae said:

 

And how would the state prove that all 200 of those miles was done within the State of Texas? I don't think this plan would work. I am in favor of increasing the gas tax. An extra 5-10 cents won't break the bank. The last toll road in this stat to convert after the tolls were paid off was I-30 in DFW. I thank the DFW lawmakers for bringing this forward. If tollroads were promised to turn into free roads after being paid off, then they should. Economics change, which is why the gas tax needs to go up. It'd probably help to alleviate some traffic on certain freeways (45), but it'll definitely lead to an increase in use overall. If the West Beltway traffic is bad now, imagine if it were "free".

 

Your plan is no good once the electric car movement gains momentum. Then how do we charge people? Those vehicles don't use gas, but they certainly use the roads. Per-mile charges are forward-looking. If you drive a lot of miles out of state, oh well.

[Trae]

38 minutes ago, gmac said:

 

Your plan is no good once the electric car movement gains momentum. Then how do we charge people? Those vehicles don't use gas, but they certainly use the roads. Per-mile charges are forward-looking. If you drive a lot of miles out of state, oh well.

 

You can charge for electricity at whatever future "supercharger" stations that get built. You can impose higher taxes on electric vehicles at purchase. But you definitely can't just say "oh well" when someone drives x amount of miles out of state but has to pay Texas taxes on it. Those are lawsuits waiting to happen.

[Ross]

7 hours ago, Trae said:

 

You can charge for electricity at whatever future "supercharger" stations that get built. You can impose higher taxes on electric vehicles at purchase. But you definitely can't just say "oh well" when someone drives x amount of miles out of state but has to pay Texas taxes on it. Those are lawsuits waiting to happen.

And all the driver has to do is prove how many miles were driven out of state. No different than the record keeping required to prove business use of a vehicle.

[cspwal]

In states that you have an income tax, is income from out of state taxable?

[samagon]

10 hours ago, Trae said:

 

You can charge for electricity at whatever future "supercharger" stations that get built. You can impose higher taxes on electric vehicles at purchase. But you definitely can't just say "oh well" when someone drives x amount of miles out of state but has to pay Texas taxes on it. Those are lawsuits waiting to happen.

 

I have, to date, never been credited for gasoline I purchased in this state and then used in a different state.

 

For that matter, 99% of the driving I do these days is not on roads maintained by the state. Should I be paying any tax at all on the gasoline I use? 

 

The majority of charging of electric vehicles, even in the future when you can charge your car in under 5 minutes, is still going to be done at the home. How would you see those taxes collected?

[august948]

Clearly, as we go into the electric car future, the funds for road maintenance and construction will become untied from a specific tax.  Taxes and fees of all sorts will be raised.  Early adopters will get a break on their overall taxes until the government catches up and raises fees on electric service, registrations, perhaps sales or property taxes.  It will come from somewhere, don't doubt it.

[Trae]

6 hours ago, samagon said:

 

I have, to date, never been credited for gasoline I purchased in this state and then used in a different state.

 

For that matter, 99% of the driving I do these days is not on roads maintained by the state. Should I be paying any tax at all on the gasoline I use? 

 

The majority of charging of electric vehicles, even in the future when you can charge your car in under 5 minutes, is still going to be done at the home. How would you see those taxes collected?

Should childless couples pay school district taxes even though they don't have kids? You're never going to have a catch all situation. Besides, your example is not really similar. At least you are paying for that state's gas tax if you do buy gas there and when you drive in Texas, you'll eventually buy gas here too (and hey, maybe you drove a few miles in the other state with Texas gas, unless you crossed state lines on empty). Meanwhile, miles driven is much harder to capture, especially if you live close to a bordering state. Someone in Beaumont going to New Orleans will have only driven 60ish of those 400+ miles in Texas, yet be charged as if they drove all of it in Texas? How would you want them to prove they drove those miles out of state?

 

And your last sentence is very easy... you just charge more for electric use at that home. If everyone is going to use more electricity, then the cost of using it will for sure go up especially in the summertime. Charging at one of those Tesla-like stations would be cheaper and faster, and then you go home. And supercharger stations will definitely charge faster than a plug at home will.

[Reefmonkey]

17 hours ago, gmac said:

 

Your plan is no good once the electric car movement gains momentum. Then how do we charge people? Those vehicles don't use gas, but they certainly use the roads. Per-mile charges are forward-looking. If you drive a lot of miles out of state, oh well.

 

6 hours ago, samagon said:

 

I have, to date, never been credited for gasoline I purchased in this state and then used in a different state.

 

For that matter, 99% of the driving I do these days is not on roads maintained by the state. Should I be paying any tax at all on the gasoline I use? 

 

The majority of charging of electric vehicles, even in the future when you can charge your car in under 5 minutes, is still going to be done at the home. How would you see those taxes collected?

Well, just brainstorming here, electric vehicles require special

 charging equipment, even at home, right? And the electricity for that equipment is coming through your meter. Maybe require people with charging stations to get an extra meter and have the power company add on the state electric vehicle per-kilowatt tax to your bill, and then send that money to the state like utilities have to do with all the other taxes they have to collect?

[Trae]

1 minute ago, Reefmonkey said:

 

Well, just brainstorming here, electric vehicles require special

 charging equipment, even at home, right? And the electricity for that equipment is coming through your meter. Maybe require people with charging stations to get an extra meter and have the power company add on the state electric vehicle per-kilowatt tax to your bill, and then send that money to the state like utilities have to do with all the other taxes they have to collect?

 

Yep this is how it would go.

[Sparrow]

On 2/23/2019 at 4:21 PM, MikeRichardson said:

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/billtext/pdf/HB00436I.pdf#navpanes=0 (also attached to the thread)

 

News coverage:

 

http://www.fox4news.com/news/north-texas-lawmaker-introduces-bill-to-end-tolls-on-toll-roads-after-they-are-paid-off

 

"North Texas lawmaker introduces bill to end tolls on toll roads after they are paid off." 

 

That's a rather unfortunate title by Fox 4 News. I saw the title of this thread and immediately my mind jumped to some politician being indicted for being bribed. Oops! my mistake...

[samagon]

On 3/12/2019 at 5:00 PM, Reefmonkey said:

 

Well, just brainstorming here, electric vehicles require special

 charging equipment, even at home, right? And the electricity for that equipment is coming through your meter. Maybe require people with charging stations to get an extra meter and have the power company add on the state electric vehicle per-kilowatt tax to your bill, and then send that money to the state like utilities have to do with all the other taxes they have to collect?

 

 

they do not require anything special.

 

for home use, most car chargers run off 220, some even run off 110. no special equipment necessary. simply plug into the required outlet.

 

fast charge stations are out there, but they are uncommon to be in people's homes, as they require specialized hardware, and service.

 

https://www.energysage.com/electric-vehicles/charging-your-ev/install-a-home-charging-station/

[plumber2]

That brochure is for the "Hardy Toll Road", which came later that the Beltway "Sam Houston Tollway" system. Just sayin! 

[august948]

2 hours ago, plumber2 said:

That brochure is for the "Hardy Toll Road", which came later that the Beltway "Sam Houston Tollway" system. Just sayin! 

 

True, but the statement itself says "roads".

[houstontexasjack]

The elimination of tolls after projects have been paid off got out of the House Transportation Committee yesterday. The text got substituted into HB 1951, which was voted favorably by the committee.

 

There’s a fiscal note attached to the bill, which generally has not boded well for bills this legislative session. We’ll have to see how this does when brought to the House floor.

 

Edit: HB 1951 is the version that also requires voter approval of new toll roads, which has been favored by the governor and lieutenant governor. 

 

My hunch is that this might clear the House, but won’t make it out of the Senate.