Downtown Dallas Development

[Dallasite]

Also the fact that Plano and Richardon compete with Dallas. And this is to a much larger extent than Sugar Land and The Woodlands compete with downtown Houston.

Very true. Las Colinas, Legacy, Richardson, Allen, and Fort Worth all compete for the same business. It has been difficult for the DTD office market.

[Houston19514]

Also the fact that Plano and Richardon compete with Dallas. And this is to a much larger extent than Sugar Land and The Woodlands compete with downtown Houston.

What is your evidence for this proposition?

[TxDave]

I think the difference is that Houston is only beginning to compete with its suburbs for business locations (e.g. The Woodlands, Sugar Land, and when will Katy join the fray?). In general Houston's suburbs are much newer than many in the Dallas area, but agressively coming up the curve as viable competiton for employment centers.

Meanwhile in Dallas, Plano and Richardson (as well as Irving, Addison, Farmers Branch, among others) have had employment centers that have been longer established. Cities such as Frisco, Southlake, Westlake, and McKinney are also really getting into the game.

All of this diffusion into the many suburbs has been hard on downtown Dallas as well as other outlying areas within the city (e.g. LBJ & Central). As many of Houston's actual suburbs (i.e. not Uptown, Greenspoint, or Energy Corridor) continue to develop, the city will see similar threats and competition.

[Dallasboi]

DTD is fine.Still building,still attracting,still rennovating.

[Gary]

I would say Dallas, greatest city on earth, but I've already said that in two other threads, so never mind.

[Dallasboi]

I would say Dallas, greatest city on earth, but I've already said that in two other threads, so never mind.

By the way........Thanks for the compliment !!!!!! On the behalf of the city of Dallas.

[slfunk]

'ULTRA URBANISM!' - MOSAIC TOWERS BREAKS GROUND

Construction has begun

"Mayor Laura Miller praises Hamilton Properties for their dedication to Downtown Dallas

Gary Thomas, DART, shares his vision for a true Transit Oriented Development "

"A DART light rail train ceremoniously ripped through a banner stretched across the tracks, signifying the kick-off of the redevelopment of Mosaic Towers on Thursday, January 12. Mayor Laura Miller and DART President Gary Thomas were on hand to celebrate, each stressing the importance of this Transit Oriented Development and its "ultra urbanism."..."

"..The Mosaic restoration will include 433 apartments, 20,000 square feet of ground-floor retail space and 770 parking spaces. With a planned budget of $100 million, Mosaic should be completed in 2007."

"Colorado-based Hamilton Properties Corporation is developing the project which will also include an innovative dog park and movie theater for its residents. In addition to the Mosaic, Hamilton Properties' projects in Dallas also include the historic Davis Building and Dallas Power & Light which continue to reinforce Downtown

[MidtownCoog]

ultra urbanism

How uber-Dallas. And y'all wonder why we make fun of you...

[RedScare]

I think it may be time to retire the term "urban". From here on out, I will make an effort not to use the term unless I am ridiculing someone or something.

As for Mosiac, is it just me, or does $100 million for 433 apartments and 20,000 sf of retail sound outrageous? And, if I am not mistaken, the City of Dallas gave them a huge grant for this thing, something like $72 million.

Houston repaved the streets, rebricked sidewalks, and replaced water and sewer lines and street lights in the entire northern half of downtown for about $30 million. Wouldn't something like that have had a bigger effect on Dallas' downtown than throwing it all into this warehouse complex?

My 2 cents

EDIT: These are actually 2 old office buildings, not warehouses, but my point is the same.

[Dallasboi]

I think it may be time to retire the term "urban". From here on out, I will make an effort not to use the term unless I am ridiculing someone or something.

As for Mosiac, is it just me, or does $100 million for 433 apartments and 20,000 sf of retail sound outrageous? And, if I am not mistaken, the City of Dallas gave them a huge grant for this thing, something like $72 million.

Houston repaved the streets, rebricked sidewalks, and replaced water and sewer lines and street lights in the entire northern half of downtown for about $30 million. Wouldn't something like that have had a bigger effect on Dallas' downtown than throwing it all into this warehouse complex?

My 2 cents

EDIT: These are actually 2 old office buildings, not warehouses, but my point is the same.

Dallas started the repavement of DTD streets,rebricking the sidewalks ect.ect.ect. last year...it's already in progress.So the answer is yes, it is effecting downtown in a very positive way..............along with the Mosaic Towers,.....and the Mercantile project(similar to Houston Pavillons),and The Hunt Entertainment District (Reuinion Arena Area).

*please refrain from 'flaming', or posts will be deleted*

[Houston19514]

Uuuuh........Dallas started the repavement of DTD streets,rebricking the sidewalks ect.ect.ect. last year...it's already in progress.So the answer is yes, it is effecting downtown in a very positive way..............along with the Mosaic Towers,.....and the Mercantile project(similar to Houston Pavillons),and The Hunt Entertainment District (Reuinion Arena Area). So to sum everything up you are simply a hater. And I hate to label people but judging by all of your post......you love to HATE Dallas. And Just for the record everyone I am not falsely accusing red scare, Go read all of his Posts..... oh well!!!!!

I'm not seeing any hate from RedScare in this thread. Far from it.

[slfunk]

delete

[Dallasboi]

I'm not seeing any hate from RedScare in this thread. Far from it.

"

What I mean is .....He seem to always find a way to reject any development in Dallas.Which is fine because when everything is built and all the smoke clears....Dallas will be the Envy of cities in the south period.

[MidtownCoog]

So you like the term ultra urbanism, eh?

I think Dallas will end up bankrupt if they keep up with the corporate handouts.

[Dallasboi]

So you like the term ultra urbanism, eh?

I think Dallas will end up bankrupt if they keep up with the corporate handouts.

The Infamous "MidtownCoog".............We will just have to see.

[RedScare]

Dallasboi, the reason for my question is that I just finished reading a Dallas Morning News article about the serious problems that the City of Dallas is facing, and that no one is addressing.

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/spe/2005/tippingpoint/

Having just read that article, I wondered if this was the highest and best use of Dallas' limited resources. I was looking for an intelligent response from Dallas residents or someone familiar with the grant funding on this project and the Mercantile Bank project, as to whether Dallas government had a plan to rescue the city from decline, and if they thought this was it.

Apparently, I was asking too much.

Since this Dallas Morning News article is fairly off-topic, I will set it up in a new thread. Dallasboi, if reading blunt articles about Dallas offends you, don't go there. The article is harsh.

[tamtagon]

The Merchantile Bank block a couple block over is the project getting the $70 million dollar TIF helping hand.

Mosaic, formerly Fidelity Union, is getting a grant for the historic preservation of the structure and a % of the CBD TIF, but I cant remember how much. I think it's like $15 million???? Still a pretty penny.

I think the agreement the city makes to NOT collect a % of the future tax on the rennovated buildings will be worth the investment. Dallas has already alotted something like 50-65% of the total CBD TIF across strategically located, large scale rennovations.

[RedScare]

tamtagon, are these grants in the form of tax abatements on the improvements, like we usually see, or is the City actually handing out checks to the developer to encourage the development? I realize to the "no government handout" crowd there may not be a difference, but I think there is a huge difference between giving out money to a developer and agreeing not to tax the improvements for 10 years or so to allow the development time to become profitable.

[slfunk]

tamtagon, are these grants in the form of tax abatements on the improvements, like we usually see, or is the City actually handing out checks to the developer to encourage the development? I realize to the "no government handout" crowd there may not be a difference, but I think there is a huge difference between giving out money to a developer and agreeing not to tax the improvements for 10 years or so to allow the development time to become profitable.

They are mostly tax incentives. The CBD of downtown Dallas has a TIF district for itself. In order to gain money for these projects the city projects how much revenue this area will generate within a certain time period with improvements etc. Based on that number the TIF is given a value. Projects go to apply for an amount of tax incentives that will have a certain amount time before the property can become taxable. In many ways this is how most of the BIG projects are happening downtown like the (Mercantile, Davis, Dallas Power & Light) because of the complexity of the projects. So basically any revenue generated in downtown will stay in downtown for improvements and new projects. I can't tell you if the city gives a check in the beginning or if its payed installments, just not taxing for 10 years or exactly how its handled. I do know it is not a tax abatement.

The TIF districts helped to create uptown Dallas from a run down part of town with drugs, prostitutes..etc. into some of the most expensive real estate in Texas. They also helped other blighted areas like Victory which use to be a brownfield.