TJones Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I said the 10 Cs were used as a guide, I didn't say they copied them word for word. The Constitution was written so that all men were created equal, they meant all white men at the time, that is why The Constitution is a living thing and can be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 ...The Constitution is a living thing and can be changed. I agree. Trying convincing Justice "there's no right to privacy in the Constitution" Scalia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I agree.Trying convincing Justice "there's no right to privacy in the Constitution" Scalia. I always wonder how these 'strict constructionists' interpret the 2nd Amendment: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Wouldn't the several branches of the military be considered "A well regulated militia"? So how come we have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy? The Second Amendment states that it's the right of the people to bear arms. It doesn't specify race, gender, age or sexual orientation. If someone (gay or straight) wishes to serve in the military, the Second Amendment gives him or her that right. Can't wait to hear Scalia defend this argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I always wonder how these 'strict constructionists' interpret the 2nd Amendment:A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Wouldn't the several branches of the military be considered "A well regulated militia"?So how come we have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy? The Second Amendment states that it's the right of the people to bear arms. It doesn't specify race, gender, age or sexual orientation. If someone (gay or straight) wishes to serve in the military, the Second Amendment gives him or her that right.I don't think it does. The second ammendment says only that as a citizen, you have the right to bear arms. This right is an anticipatory right in the sense that if we as a country are ever attacked again, as we were during the Revolutionary War, that we can form private militias to protect ourselves. Therefore, there has been no mis-interpretation of the second ammendment. There is no law preventing homosexuals from owning firearms.Don't-ask, Don't-tell is merely a company policy that has nothing to do with the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 11, 2005 Author Share Posted November 11, 2005 I said the 10 Cs were used as a guide, I didn't say they copied them word for word. The Constitution was written so that all men were created equal, they meant all white men at the time, that is why The Constitution is a living thing and can be changed.I don't see how the Commandments were used in framing the Constitution, even as a guide. The Constituion does not prohibit murder, theft, or blasphemy, it merely gives the right to pass these laws to the states. In fact, the First Amendment specifically gives us the right to violate the Commandments, by banning state religion (and the laws that go with it), and giving us free speech to blaspheme.It is a common retort of religous conservatives (and others) to hijack the founders and Constitution for their own purposess, but it doesn't make it true.http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/co...n.overview.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 And it doesn't make any sense. I hate hearing people say that the Constitution was based on the 10 Commandments because that is completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I'm not hijacking anything. Are you saying the Constitution, didn't get any ideas from the 10Cs to lay out the ground work for the laws that we have today ? The men that founded this country were said to be deeply religious, and being a reason for breaking away from the King in order to pursue religious freedom in there own way. You don't think that the laws we have in place are set in such a way, that if violated, are there not consequences to pay ? If you Kill, you are judged using the circumstances and evidence, if you Steal and you are caught stealing, you are judged using the circumstances and evidence. Thomas Jefferson and the others that helped him write it didn't come up with that stuff all by themselves, did they ? Do they still make you put your hand on the Bible and raise your right hand in court Red, or do you just raise your hand, or do they use a law book and raise your right hand ? Who came up with the whole hand on the Bible , before God, thing anyway ? Red, you have to know that one. I don't , so I guess I'll try to Yahoo! it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin were Deists. John Adams was a Unitarian. James Madison - who actually wrote the Consitution - had no religious beliefs. None of these men were deeply religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin were Deists. John Adams was a Unitarian. James Madison - who actually wrote the Consitution - had no religious beliefs. None of these men were deeply religious. West, would you say that the majority of the people involved with the Constitution's writing maybe went to church every Sunday ? I myself do not go every Sunday, in fact it has probably been a month of Sundays since I have gone. I know scholars and lawyers have debated the origins of the Constitution since it was written. Like I said, it is a LIVING THING, it can be changed, it is simply up to us to change it, and deal with the consequences. Alot of people were upset that Prop 2 didn't go the way they wanted, especially alot of people on here., not because of a Republican agenda, it simply did not get enough votes. We the people had a chance to change something, and apparently, the people are not ready for that change. I am almost sure that it wouldn't have mattered who was in the White House or the Govenor's Mansion either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 I'm not hijacking anything. Are you saying the Constitution, didn't get any ideas from the 10Cs to lay out the ground work for the laws that we have today ? The men that founded this country were said to be deeply religious, and being a reason for breaking away from the King in order to pursue religious freedom in there own way. You don't think that the laws we have in place are set in such a way, that if violated, are there not consequences to pay ? If you Kill, you are judged using the circumstances and evidence, if you Steal and you are caught stealing, you are judged using the circumstances and evidence. Thomas Jefferson and the others that helped him write it didn't come up with that stuff all by themselves, did they ? Do they still make you put your hand on the Bible and raise your right hand in court Red, or do you just raise your hand, or do they use a law book and raise your right hand ? Who came up with the whole hand on the Bible , before God, thing anyway ? Red, you have to know that one. I don't , so I guess I'll try to Yahoo! it. To answer your last question first, which really has nothing to do with the debate, no, there are no bibles in the courtroom. A witnesses raises his or her right hand, and is asked to "swear or affirm" to tell the truth. God is not invoked. To swear an oath is to affirm before God. To affirm is the same thing, but for those who do no believe in a god. To answer your first question, yes, I am saying the Constitution is not based on the Commandments. That is a myth, easily debunked, proffered by religous conservatives who, interestingly enough, are trying to subvert the Constitution by creating a government sponsored religion of Christianity. The 10 Commandments are a set of laws criminalizing certain behavior, so to speak. The Constitution is not a penal code. There is only one crime enunciated in the Constitution. That crime is Treason. All of the other articles of the Constitution form a diagram for the structure of the Republic, such as the three branches of government, what areas the federal government has legislative authority over, what authority is left to the states, and how to amend the Constitution itself. It bears no resemblance or signature of the Commandments whatsoever. Further, other than establishing freedom of religion in the first amendment, God or religion is never mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Thank you for clearing some things for me. I thought they had changed how people were sworn in, wasn't sure, that's why you ask a lawyer. Ok, I am still of the belief that the Constitution goes along the lines of the Commandments, I simply said they were a guide, not word for word, so, this will be my opinion, I that is how I percieve the facts to be, so we disagree again my friend, my nemesis I am not a Bible thumping Conservative, nor do I ever hope to be. I think of myself as very open minded. I haven't heard anything about the gov. sponsored Christianity. Can't say I like the sound of it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 Just for fun, would you point out what provision(s) you believe were influenced by the Commandments...or is it just a general belief that they influenced its creation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Just for fun, would you point out what provision(s) you believe were influenced by the Commandments...or is it just a general belief that they influenced its creation? The 6th and the 8th commandments are givens. Gets trickier as you start talking about "covetting" your neighbors donkey, "covetting" leads to stealing in most cases. The contridiction of freedom of religion, is obviously taken from the commandments, so that you can believe what you want without having to worry about a jealous GOD. At least in this country. Like I said, the 10Cs was a guide for them, they weren't trying to copy the 10 Cs to a T, they were simply laying out groundwork, for what the laws ARE and how they are to be interpreted. , What was right and wrong at the time the Constitution was written, were strictly for white men only. Thank goodness others have had the foresight to change some laws,and yet some laws still need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Ok, I am still of the belief that the Constitution goes along the lines of the Commandments, I simply said they were a guide, not word for word, so, this will be my opinion, I that is how I percieve the facts to be, so we disagree again my friend, my nemesis I believe that unicorns licked the parchment until the Bill of Rights magically appeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 It would be interesting to Google "Constitution Ten Commandments" to find some historical writing on what the founders were really thinking-instead of all of us getting ants up our asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 I believe that unicorns licked the parchment until the Bill of Rights magically appeared. It would be interesting to Google "Constitution Ten Commandments" to find some historical writing on what the founders were really thinking-instead of all of us getting ants up our asses. Your right,I wish there was also, it is just a belief, you either believe it or not, there are no documents, disputing they did or didn't. Alot of people debating how it was and wasn't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Read this from the Christian Science Monitor http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0421/p09s01-coop.html...and this from family.org http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0027511.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Read this from the Christian Science Monitor http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0421/p09s01-coop.html...and this from family.org http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0027511.cfmI read them, didn't leave me thinking ,"OMG ! I'm wrong!" Good articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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