Richmond Rallies Against Rail Route

[Guest danax]

Bizjournal article link

All things considered, Richmond does seem like the most logical route. Too bad the median trees will likely have to go. I would probably feel the same way if I had a business there, as far as the loss potential during construction, but afterwards I would expect an increase in business as many more people would be exposed to Richmond, but, with most of them just passing through on the way to work or school, any increase in sales is just theoretical.

I wonder if the massive demolition at Richmond and Dunlavy (HAIF reference topic here) is a tipoff to this route being already penciled in?

[ssullivan]

I don't think the demolition of the building at that intersection has anything to do with the light rail construction. I was told by someone with HISD two years ago that the plan was to demolish that old school building. That was long before Metro created any plan that would put light rail down that segment of Richmond.

[Talbot]

Logistically, Richmond may be a better route, but man it would be awesome to take the train down Westheimer and stop along at the stations instead of driving it.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Logistically, Richmond may be a better route, but man it would be awesome to take the train down Westheimer and stop along at the stations instead of driving it.

I'm kinda skeptical of a light rail going down Westiemer with all the traffic already there. Like, Metro's light rail accident percentage is through the roof already. Going down Westiemer STREET level with the cars?

But on the other hand, I think some kind of plan would be mad cool for the train to stop near the Galleria somehow. I wonder if with the train going through Westiemer or Richmond if Metro planned on adding MAD landscaping along it, 'cause that would be cool.

Wishful thinking: What if the light rail went THROUGH a part of the Galleria Epcot Center style. Not the whole mall, just at, say Galleria 3, where there aren't that many patrons, and where they could use something there to lure more customer traffic. It's be like, (starting at 6-10 Loop) have it go from Westiemer THROUGH the mall (suspended), then have it go (while descending) toward Richmond Ave , and have it move along from there ground level along the Richmond strip from there. Wishful thinking...

[Talbot]

going through the mall would be pretty cool, but that would detract even more from the street level activity.

And, i didn't think of the previous accidents on Main, good point.

[citykid09]

Mabe if the keep on Ralling against it going down there street they will have to come up with some cool way of placing the rail there, like mabe above ground, or in a subway. Like what happened in Dallas, They where never supposed to have a subway, but the people living in that area did not want the rail going through there neghborhood so the DART people came up with the subway plan, and now there planning even more subway routes.

So mabe a subway would work better in that area, or one thats above ground.

[YakuzaIce]

Well a subway would be nice. Depending how it is built there would be little disruption in traffic patterns and the median would stay intact. I don't see how an above ground rail would solve any of the residents complaints other than it not running into cars. There would still be traffic disruption and the trees would probably have to go.

[citykid09]

Well a subway would be nice. Depending how it is built there would be little disruption in traffic patterns and the median would stay intact. I don't see how an above ground rail would solve any of the residents complaints other than it not running into cars. There would still be traffic disruption and the trees would probably have to go.

So with that said, a subway would probably be the best route. Awhile back (a year ago?) the reaviled plans for a subway coming from downtown, but I forgot where it went. Personally I think the best thing to do would be a subway.

Check out this thing for houston.

Edited November 5, 2005 by citykid09

[YakuzaIce]

I think that was only a proposal for a short cross downtown line that was perpendicular to the red line. I don't think there was anything definite with the plan. I can't remember the street it was supposed to go under. Was it Lamar? (I don't think that was it)

EDIT: wasn't that pic from a proposal in the 80's?

Edited November 5, 2005 by YakuzaIce

[citykid09]

EDIT: wasn't that pic from a proposal in the 80's?

Look at those car. Now do they look like there from the 80s?

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I didn't think so.

[RedScare]

The Walker Street line is still on the boards as a possible subway. It would run from the GRB under Main to City Hall, then continue above ground west along Washington or 7th Street to the 290 Transit Center. Eastward, it would go above ground out Harrisburg. The subway would allow the two lines to not interfere with each other. However, this line won't be built for years.

As to a subway on Richmond or Westheimer, I have to admit, that would be pretty sweet, and would appease the neighbors, other than the construction mess. I wonder what that would do to costs?

[Gary]

I think that was only a proposal for a short cross downtown line that was perpendicular to the red line. I don't think there was anything definite with the plan. I can't remember the street it was supposed to go under. Was it Lamar? (I don't think that was it)

EDIT: wasn't that pic from a proposal in the 80's?

That renedering can't be from the 80's, it's got a 1998 Ford F150 in the middle of the street.

I think a monorail like is pictured would be very cool down Westheimer. The thing that always bugs me about subways is that there's no view of the city your in.

[YakuzaIce]

Look at those car. Now do they look like there from the 80s?

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.

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I didn't think so.

Yeah I think it was 80's or at most late 80's. It I believe it had support during Whitmire's time in office, but Lanier cancelled it. Maybe the pic is newer, but the proposal is from earlier.

Edited November 5, 2005 by YakuzaIce

[WesternGulf]

Subway is not realistic to me. We are already hustling dollars for light rail. Plus light rail sparks development along corridors more than a subway can and makes for a nice streetscape. Subways do nothing with chaninging the streetscae in this city which I am all for. Isn't Houston just a little to low for subway unlike Dallas?

[YakuzaIce]

How does light rail create more development than a subway? Also the issue with the subway isn't our elevation.

[citykid09]

Yeah I think it was 80's or at most late 80's. It I believe it had support during Whitmire's time in office, but Lanier cancelled it. Maybe the pic is newer, but the proposal is from earlier.

Yeah, why did he cancle so much stuff that would have made Houston better. At first it was the subway line then it was the monorail.

Houston is not to low for a subway, Houston is over 55 feet above sealevel, and along way from the sea. there is another sea below sea level like New Orleans and they have subways and tunnels there. I forgot the name of it, but they have a really good pumping system. If a city below sea level can do it than Houston can do it.

Yeah a street level lightrail would help spur development, but look at all of the mess they cause in Houston. People run into them, the stop traffic and more. And look at the street level one Houston has now, there was an article in the Chronicle awhile back talking about how the rail did not spur development like they thought it would.

As small as Westhimer is inside of 610 there is no way a street level rail could fit there. A subway could have tremanals all along Westhimer. It would work great with the new urban development going up at that old car dealership near Highland Village and it would not mess with traffic, It would not be dangerous for people walking, no delays and no construction messing up the roads. And look at how they have to shut down the rail when there is a big event downtown, that would not happen with a subway tunnel. All around a subway is a much better option.

[YakuzaIce]

Houston is not to low for a subway, Houston is over 55 feet above sealevel, and along way from the sea. there is another sea below sea level like New Orleans and they have subways and tunnels there. I forgot the name of it, but they have a really good pumping system. If a city below sea level can do it than Houston can do it....

And look at how they have to shut down the rail when there is a big event downtown, that would not happen with a subway tunnel. All around a subway is a much better option.

My guess would be Amsterdam.

I know the light rail was running while people were downtown during the world series games.

[citykid09]

My guess would be Amsterdam.

I know the light rail was running while people were downtown during the world series games.

Thats it Amsterdam.

Well it was running but then they shut it down because it was to big of a crowd.

[RedScare]

Well it was running but then they shut it down because it was to big of a crowd.

The night the Astros clinched the Pennant, it was shut down, but for the World Series, they moved the party over to Market Square. From everyone I talked to, that solution worked really well. This may push most street celebrations off of Main Street...not that that is a problem, since Market Square is only one block west.

[dbigtex56]

The night the Astros clinched the Pennant, it was shut down

I don't think so.

It was still running half an hour after the game was over; I know, because I rode it home.

[RedScare]

I don't think so.

It was still running half an hour after the game was over; I know, because I rode it home.

You may be right. Is that the night they gave the train a police escort through the historic district, to keep fans off the track?

Regardless, I think improving the Market Square for these events will alleviate the problem altogether.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Once again, imagine that through Galleria 3...

[dbigtex56]

You may be right. Is that the night they gave the train a police escort through the historic district, to keep fans off the track?

Regardless, I think improving the Market Square for these events will alleviate the problem altogether.

Yes - the trains were preceded by police units.

And you're correct in that there was a fairly recent event which caused the trains to stop running (perhaps the playoff game against Atlanta?) In any case, drunken crowds and light rail at street level seems like an accident waiting to happen. Good thing there was a strong police presence the night we won the pennant.

The question is, how do we lure people away from Main Street and over to Market Square? And how are the Main St. merchants going to feel about it?

[RedScare]

The question is, how do we lure people away from Main Street and over to Market Square? And how are the Main St. merchants going to feel about it?

Well, it was DEDA's idea to move the party to Market Square. They blocked off the park and the parking lot directly south of it. They brought in big screen TVs and picnic tables. They also had portable toilets on site. The first game, there were a few problems, as they also blocked off Travis. By the scecond game, they only blocked one lane of Travis and had food and drink vendors.

The second game ran much better, and even the Market Square reataurant owners were pleased. The crowds were well behaved, lots of families, etc., a stark contrast to the thugs throwing gang signs on Main Street. This lead to speculation that Main Street merchants would want it back, but they should realize that few of the crowd at these parties would patronize the bars anyway....at least, not during the game. Many of the clubs don't even open until 9 pm, anyway. After the game is over, those that want to go to a club or bar only have one block to walk.

I think it is a win-win, since downtown got lots of publicity as a destination during that week. That being said, the Market Square merchants wondered if it was TOO successful, and the Main Street merchants would want it back. There is a bit of tension between the 2 groups. Nothing scandalous, but each group wants as much business on their street as they can get.

[TxDave]

The conflict of trains and passengers on the street is one of the unfortunate side effects of successful street level light rail. Once the demand is created and pedestrians take over the street scene, the trains need to go somewhere else.

In Dallas some of the only street grade DART tracks are downtown, and I believe the plans are to go underground there once the traffic and congestion warrant. Are there any such plans in Houston?

Edited November 19, 2005 by TxDave