Demand For Housing Near Transit

[Subdude]

Houston faces explosive demand for housing near transit

Report says changing demographics require urban thinking

Houston

[largeTEXAS]

The Chronicle needs to publish this. This is big.

[MidtownCoog]

Sounds bogus. Somebody has an agenda.

Funny, we have had Park and Rides for ever. Don't people want to live near those, too?

[ssullivan]

Sounds bogus.

[NYC Texan2]

Don't forget that the downtown/midtown housing boom started with a study that concluded that demand existing for 100,000 downtown-centered housing units. This stuff can have a huge impact if it is communicated to the industry.

[MidtownCoog]

Studies are often just that, "studies". Sometimes you make an A, othertimes an F.

Midtown had plenty of bus stops before rail. When you get down to it, rail and buses do the same thing.

Rail has its place, but we can't just build it becuase "people" want to live near it. The glam factor can be over rated. The train can't take you everywhere.

[HeightsGuy]

NYC Texan2, you hit upon something that bothers me about the way things happen here in Houston when it comes to real estate. I am excited and sad at the same time reading this article. Part of me thinks it's a great thing, another part thinks the background info for the story came from any number of people who would gain from this (real estate speculators, etc.). Sorry, using words like "explosive growth" sounds like a press release, not reporting.

The problem is Houston grows in spurts of activity (booms) without a spec of planning. In terms of rail/housing, you see this happening in Midtown right now at one level (the building phase), and at another level just north of downtown along Main (speculation buying).

What is being built has nothing to do with what is needed, and everything to do with making a quick buck. Tell me how the new housing in Midtown is geared toward rail? Much of the new housing in Midtown is hardly dense, it's suburban apartments made to look urban.

[NYC Texan2]

Gotta argue with MidtownCoug equating buses with rail: there is no way I would ever buy/rent an apartment with noisy, smokey buses passing by. Trains are different. Buses are perceived to be nasty.

As far as data for the study, it is from multiple cities, not just "real estate speculators", whatever that means. The land will have value if people want it. While it is frustrating when someone decides to hold land rather than develop it, it is always a decision relating to maximizing the value of the property. That is the only way to make sure it is developed to its highest and best use.

How exactly could this be rigged, anyway? The study just affirms what almost everyone on the board wants: greater population density downtown.

[MidtownCoog]

Ensemble Station should be the epicenter for this type of development.

Hope they continue to focus on that area. It has a lot of potential.

And what's cool about it is that what's there is "Real Houston". What a great way to start.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I agree. Lots of potential at the Ensemble Station. I just can't figure the owners/leasers of the former Mexican restaurant. No signage, no evidence of activity, yet I believe they hold private parties there on weekends. Weird. Looks like it would be a great success if done right.

[HeightsGuy]

While it is frustrating when someone decides to hold land rather than develop it, it is always a decision relating to maximizing the value of the property. That is the only way to make sure it is developed to its highest and best use.

Knowing what I think I know about TOD, your statement is almost the exact opposite of what it preaches. You're saying the market itself dictates property use, TOD preaches dense cores around transit centers whether you want it or not (a build it they will come sort of thing).

[NYC Texan2]

I am not sure that I see the contradiction. . . . An owner of property wants to maximize his/her return, and the type of development is impacted significantly by the value of the raw land. While owners are always looking for an angle, a study like the one cited can provide new information to landowners/developers regarding demand that they may not be in a position to measure themselves.

If there isn't the demand for dense mass transit corridors, the MTA isn't going to get anywhere with the rail line anyway. But I don't think anyone here thinks that is a result that can be realistically expected here. . . .

[2112]

Sounds bogus.

[2112]

I think it's wrong to compare people wanting to live near a suburban park and ride lot with people wanting to live near a MetroRail station in the innerloop area. Park and ride lots are designed for cars and the bus stops are usually located in the middle of a massive parking lot. Not exactly a pedestrian-friendly walk from your front door to the bus at the park and ride environment. Park and ride lots are also designed to serve a very large surrounding area, perhaps and entire community.

On the other hand, rail stations are spaced much closer together and are mostly designed for pedestrian access. Each rail stop serves a smaller area; just a few blocks surrounding the stop. Whereas a person living in a house in Kingwood who uses the park and ride there may be a mile or two (or five or six miles) away from the park and ride lot, people living along the rail line may be just a few blocks from the station.

The study is looking at the number of people who want to live near a rail station for easy transit access, not people who want to live in the suburbs who may or may not be transit riders. I doubt the majority of people buying houses in Katy, Spring, Kingwood and other suburbs are moving there just because there is park and ride access. They are moving to those areas for other reasons, and while they may use a park and ride lot to get to work downtown, that's not the primary reason for those households to locate in those areas.

I think the 139,413 projected new households near the existing rail stations by 2025 is reasonable, if high-density residential developments continue to be built downtown and in Midtown. Regardless of what is motivating this study, the fact remains that there are a lot of people who want to live near one of the light rail stations and do not because the housing and infrastructure to support them is not there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again: pigeon-holeing and proclaiming that all good exists in the loop, while all evil magically appears as soon as you cross 610. Even though I agree with your assessment describing the basic motivations behind those living in the outer-most suburbs, versus what drives those wishing to live by rail stations, I still smell that holier-than-thou attitude that SOME inner-loopers have towards ANYTHING outside the loop. Damn. You would think you were talking to Manhattanites sometimes. I am supremely confident that given the existence of rail within outer-loop Houston as is currently planned, those Houstonians would also be compelled to live by those train stations for the same reasons the inner-loopers do. Urbanism does not dissapear as soon as you cross 610. Further, if you want to identify where it DOES dissapear, that boundary is somewhere inside the loop. In fact, with the exception of downtown, Medical Center, and the newer areas of Midtown, most of inner-loop Houston looks and feels just like the rest of the city. Walk past Montrose and Westheimer about a block, and what do we have? Well, well, well

[MidtownCoog]

Some of my favorite quotes are:

"I'll never live outside the Loop".

and

"Some people are inner-loopers for life".

Good grief. Gag me with a spoon. Man folks say that, and I often wonder if they realize how silly they sound.

And what's funny, some of the best property in Houston is actually outside the Loop (Memorial, etc.).

[pineda]

I'd like to hear from someone who's from the Atlanta area. I am not, but was told once that when their light rail system was gearing up, that transit-oriented shopping and residences were booming along the line. But, later, people's perceptions of what was "cool" changed for some reason, and it's not the be-all, end-all it was projected to be either. Any comments from Atlantians?

[2112]

Addendum:

I think I might want to do some shopping later today. Ill probably go Uptown for some of that.

Guess Ill have to go outside the loop.

[bachanon]

if affluence and level of education are a factor, the majority of zip codes with the greatest wealth and education in the greater houston area are outside of the loop. bellaire, memorial, champions, the woodlands, magnolia. the latest census showed that four woodlands/magnolia area zip codes were in the top ten wealthiest and highest educated households in the greater houston area. bellaire, champions and memorial also fall into this top ten category.

the info was cited in a HBJ list some months ago.

[midtown_resident]

That mexican restaurant is actually a club on the wkds...

[HeightsGuy]

pineda, I think you're hitting the nail on the head. Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to transit oriented development, but to me it's a chicken before the egg thing (especially in Houston doing it Houston-style). The idea of creating areas of TOD in Houston with it's car culture can't be sustainable, and the only way to sell it is with hype. We all know what hype did to the SW area of town, the Richmond strip, Shephard place, ad naueseum.

Groups like the one that put out this study seem a little weird to me. I know they are trying to do right, but follow the trail of money. I think if you sniff long enough you will see funding from train builders and developers. Nothing wrong with that, but it means you have to take some of this with a grain of salt.

[ssullivan]

2112,

I did not mean to be snobbish about living inside the loop in my post. Rereading it I don't know where you got that idea, but anyway if you did that was not my intent. In fact my only mention of "inside the loop" was in the very first sentence. I only made that reference because that's where MetroRail is now and where it's going to be for the most part for at least the next few years. Any rail transit-oriented development outside the loop is still a decade or so off.

But that's not to say transit-oriented development won't occur outside 610. I believe, and hope, that it will as the rail lines are expanded.

I don't consider everything outside of 610 evil. Until mid August I lived outside the loop. Some of my favorite neighborhoods in Houston are outside 610. Until tomorrow, my job is outside 610. I shop at the Galleria most of the time and it's outside 610. Not once in my post did I say "everyone should live inside the loop." My issue is not whether something is being built outside 610 or inside it. However, I won't hide the fact that I'm against further suburban sprawl and would be in favor of the metro area enacting some regulation to set boundaries to where the city ends and country begins. I don't think that building new subdivisions 40+ miles from downtown is healthy growth, especially when there are ample opportunities for redevelopment of existing urbanized areas, both inside and outside the loop. Continued building that expands the geographic size of the metro area does not make sense because of the amount of pollution, traffic, and wildlife habitat destruction generated.

My only point in my post was that transit-oriented development usually occurs where easilly accessible transit is added to an undeveloped or blighted area. It was simply a rebuttal to MidtownCoog's post that said that we've had park and rides forever. I was never trying to alienate anyone or act superior to anyone who lives in a house with a yard and dog and 2.5 kids and a SUV in the suburbs. I'm sorry (and somewhat surprised) you took my post that way because that was never my intent.

[editor]

Gotta argue with MidtownCoug equating buses with rail:  there is no way I would ever buy/rent an apartment with noisy, smokey buses passing by.  Trains are different.  Buses are perceived to be nasty.

I did that. Lived next to a Metro bus staging area for 18 months. Never again. It's illegal in Harris County for trucks and buses to idle with their engines on, but that's exactly what happened there. The buses would sit for hours and hours just running, burning fuel (tax dollars) and belching smoke into the air. If Metro is really interested in cleaning the air with carpools and such, it should look in its own backyard first.

[dbigtex56]

I have lived inside the Loop for 23 years, and cannot imagine living anywhere else in Houston.

This statement seems to bring out a knee-jerk reaction in some people. Perhaps if someone were to ask before passing judgement, this would be my reply:

I do not own a car. I am a pedestrian, by choice. By living in Montrose, I can walk virtually everywhere I need (or want) to go. If I'm feeling lazy, there are buses and rail (for which I have an annual pass). I walk to the grocery store, to my dentist, my doctors, the museums, the library, to Spec's, to restaurants and bars, to KPFT and for the sheer enjoyment of it. Shabby though some of them may be, sidewalks can be found throughout Montrose.

I enjoy the architecture inside the Loop. With few exceptions, post-WWII architecture just doesn't do it for me. This point cannot be disputed; it's a matter of personal taste. Give me a weathered bungalow or an early 20th century mansion over some plastic-coated fake stucco monstrosity any day. Mature trees, in addition to their beauty, also provide welcome shade from the brutal Texas sun.

The concept of a neighborhood is important to me. Nearly every time I walk somewhere, I'll encounter someone I know. There are businesses I have frequented for years, and I enjoy being recognized when I walk in the door.

We share a sense of the history of the neighborhood, and know its peculiarities. When a transsexual prostitute was murdered on Lovett Blvd earlier this year, it wasn't some grim giggle to me; I knew her by sight, and she always said hello. When you know people even slightly, they cease to be caricatures and remind us of how broad the human experience can be.

Outside the Loop I've been burned too many times (both figuratively and literally). On a map, an address may appear to be an easy walk from the bus line. In reality, it's a sun-scorched hell, with absolutely no provisions made for pedestrians. I find no joy in walking past acres and acres of parking lots, nor starting down an endless block only to discover that the sidewalk abruptly disappears.

There's no reason to feel defensive when I say that outside the Loop isn't for me. It's not meant as a slur or a challenge. It's my reality. And if that makes you want to gag yourself with a spoon (or anything else, for that matter), be my guest.

[MidtownCoog]

LOL. That is pretty funny. I notice you don't mention going to work.

No wonder you don't need a car!

You sound like the real deal. But you and I both know about the Inner Loop snobs. I actually used to be one, and then I leared to appreciate the big picture that is Houston.