Private Toll Roads

[RedScare]

This in Today's Chronicle.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3260459

I am uncomfortable with the government abdicating its responsibility under the guise of being cash strapped, or saying private companies are more efficient. The gas tax hasn't been raised in years, so has been eroded by inflation. Because of its 'lower taxes' stance, the government will not increase the tax to raise needed revenue. So instead, they just let these toll roads go in, so they can claim they didn't raise taxes.

If you save money on income tax, only to put it in a toll receptacle, did your government really save you any money? And what accoutability does a private company (from Spain, no less!) have to the voters?

[MidtownCoog]

Yes, this lower taxes thing boggles the mind.

Just this weekend, out "leaders" in Austin want to lower property taxes and increase sin taxes to fund our schools.

Talk about short sighted. Why fund schools off of smokes and drink?

It's a sad, sad state of affairs.

[RedScare]

It is easy to attack those who drink, smoke and frequent 'gentlemen's clubs' when you are holier than thou. And we all know that Austin and Washington are the holiest of places.

But, funding our youths' education with taxes on items and activities that we then try to eliminate is the height of stupidity, and another example of politicians with no backbone. No one really fights the taxes on these items. And, if you're a god-fearing christian, you would not openly admit to partaking of them either. But, studies show that in every state that raised tobacco taxes, overall tobacco revenue dropped from the level of revenue before the tax increase, thus denying the states the increased tax revenue that they were seeking.

This is just another example of people not paying their fair share for the services they demand.

[GoAtomic]

This in Today's Chronicle.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3260459

I am uncomfortable with the government abdicating its responsibility under the guise of being cash strapped, or saying private companies are more efficient.  The gas tax hasn't been raised in years, so has been eroded by inflation.  Because of its 'lower taxes' stance, the government will not increase the tax to raise needed revenue.  So instead, they just let these toll roads go in, so they can claim they didn't raise taxes.

If you save money on income tax, only to put it in a toll receptacle, did your government really save you any money?  And what accoutability does a private company (from Spain, no less!) have to the voters?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure we can thank Tom DeLay and his Mini-Me clone, John Culberson, for bringing this tollroad concept from Texas to the limelight in Washington. What are they thinking up there?

Soooooo out of touch ....

[RedScare]

Jim Talent, a Missouri Republican co-sponsored the bill, but isn't Culberson on the Transportation committee?

At any rate, this certainly sounds like an idea he would be all over.

[MidtownCoog]

Yep, and what if (and it's a big IF) everyone decided to stop drinking and smoking.

Talk about being up the creek without a paddle.

[RedScare]

Yep, and what if (and it's a big IF) everyone decided to stop drinking and smoking.

Talk about being up the creek without a paddle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about everyone else, but I would be a very cranky person.

[MaxConcrete]

If you save money on income tax, only to put it in a toll receptacle, did your government really save you any money?  And what accoutability does a private company (from Spain, no less!) have to the voters?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's dirty game Rick Perry and his toll henchmen are playing, with Texans as the victims. First, they say they won't raise the gasoline tax to allow it to keep up with inflation, and then they try to hit us with a "fee" that is far more costly than the gasoline tax. Perry's efforts to toll freeways, such as the effort to toll SH 249, has now been made more difficult with legislation from the last session. TxDOT has been lobbying hard at the federal level to get the authority to toll all interstates in Texas.

In terms of privately-owned tollways, private firms generally look for minimum 5-10% return on their investment, more if it is risky. The public is going to have to pay for these profits. Is a privately-financed tollway going to be more efficient to the point of lowering the cost 5 to 10% per year? (which would keep the cost to the public the same) I doubt it. Techniques that save money, such as design-build, can easily be used by public agencies, not just private firms.

The politicians promoting this are surely taking lots of money from construction firms and Wall Street bond firms. This private toll scheme is in the best interests of those industries, not the public.

[MidtownCoog]

Even if we do go with private firms, is it too much to ask for an American firm?

I think we can all agree it is far time for Perry to enter a forced retirement.

[pineda]

I wonder if Gabriella "Gaby" Garcia is related to another TxDOT spokesmodel, Gabriel "Gabe" Garcia? Nice... Just like Wesley Friese's daughter now works for HCTRA, just like Daddy. Good to see neptotism is alive and well in the Texas transportation system.

[RedScare]

Does anyone have any info on what these proposed toll fees would be? If a 10 lane toll road from Dallas to San Antonio cost $6 Billion, I am guessing that this would be a substantial toll.

I agree the construction and bond firms are big winners here. Texans, including farmers, are losers. But, who loses big if this thing goes bankrupt? Texas already has a bankrupt private toll road in the valley. So, it can happen.

If the toll is, say, $20, and gas goes to, say, $3 a gallon, a typical SUV or pickup driver (a large percentage of Texans) will spend $65 to $75 each way to drive from Dallas to SA. That could deter a lot of drivers from taking this road. If it goes belly up, does anyone know who foots the bill?

[sevfiv]

private expansion in virginia

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5042801402.html

and what wouod be REALLY great is if the privatized roads had their own private police to enforce everything!

[The Great Hizzy!]

Texas is essentially getting into the Turnpike business. Take a look at Oklahoma, New Jersey and Florida, states that have quite a few toll roads comnecting some large cities. New Jersey is the "worst" in that you seem to be stopping every 20 miles to pay a toll, especially once you're north of Trenton.

It's getting that way in Florida as well. I remember when $8.00 would get you from the Golden Glades interchange just north of Miami to the intersection of the Turnpike with I-75 just south of Ocala. That same trip now costs close to $17.00.

Live in Orlando? There are twice as many tolled roads in the Orlando/Sanford/Winter Haven area than free expressways.

[kjb434]

yes,

These roads in Texas are nothing new in the US.

Oklahome and Kansas had them for years because there gas tax couldn't pay for anything.

Virginia is doing it because they're a tax hungary state. Imagine paying property taxes not on your home, but your car, motorcyle, boat, jetski, rv, truck. Virginia has gotten into the private toll roads already and they are among some of the best in the state. Well kept and maintained.

Cintra has been doing this in Europe with their much higher standars for road pavement than the US. They probably figured it'll be much easier to run a US road than European road.

[MidtownCoog]

Virgina is a strange place. No radar detectors, no tinted windows, hard to own a gun just for a few.

But back on topic, this is Texas, and we should expect more.

This state was founded on the concept of owning our state land, and now Perry is happy giving it away to private companies.

Am I the only one who thinks this moving backwards?

[RedScare]

Texas is essentially getting into the Turnpike business. Take a look at Oklahoma, New Jersey and Florida, states that have quite a few toll roads comnecting some large cities. New Jersey is the "worst" in that you seem to be stopping every 20 miles to pay a toll, especially once you're north of Trenton.

It's getting that way in Florida as well. I remember when $8.00 would get you from the Golden Glades interchange just north of Miami to the intersection of the Turnpike with I-75 just south of Ocala. That same trip now costs close to $17.00.

Live in Orlando? There are twice as many tolled roads in the Orlando/Sanford/Winter Haven area than free expressways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So basically, it may well cost $20 to drive San Antonio to Dallas, or Houston to Dallas, by the time these are built.

Considering most of the drive to Dallas is done on a 4 lane road and is not overly congested, it would seem adding a lane to 45 would work as well as building a new 10 lane hiway. But, hey, if I were intelligent, I'd be governor.

[InnerLoopOnly]

Heaven forbid the people who drive on these roads have to pay for them. I would rather see more of our long distance roads become toll roads. I'm not too keen on contributing my tax money to projects that I don't drive on.

Who here is happy that they are paying for the Big Dig?

[MidtownCoog]

Heaven forbid the people who drive on these roads have to pay for them.

Good grief!

What makes the USA great is its transportation infrastructure.

It's for the greater good. But then again InnerLoop, I guess you get the roads you deserve with that lame attitue. All pot-holed and bumpy.

[kjb434]

There won't be a TTC between Houston and Dalls for a long time.

The I-35 and I-69 corridors will be the first.

I-45 is slowly being turned into a 6 lane highway instead of 4. I-10 from Louisiana to Houston and then from Houston to San Antonio will become 6 lanes before a TTC will be build.

I-35 is also slowly becoming a 6 land road from San Antonio to Austin and from Austin to Dallas. The Waco area is already widening.

[CDeb]

What makes the USA great is its transportation infrastructure.

???

The USA rose from nothing to the most powerful nation on the planet with a putrid transportation infrastructure. One reason Eisenhower was such a big proponent of the Interstate system in the first place was that it took him two weeks to get an army unit across the country in early WWII.

In short, the USA became a great nation for many reasons. The one you cite is pretty low on the list.

Sorry my first post here was in disagreement.

[MidtownCoog]

Try to get around without it.

[CDeb]

Try to get around without it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many people did for years.

We were still a great country.

[MidtownCoog]

Ask China why they are building so many roads.

They lack transportation infrastructure.

[CDeb]

Ask China why they are building so many roads.

They lack transportation infrastructure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And they're still a great country.

I'm not disagreeing with your notion that it's necessary at all. Just a nit that I probably shouldn't have picked.

[MidtownCoog]

I'd disagree about China being great. We need to keep an eye on them, but I digress.

[CDeb]

I'd disagree about China being great.

Compared to the USA, sure.

But compared to most of the rest of the world.....

OK, OK, OK. I'm off topic enough!! Sorry.

[lockmat]

http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archi...eres_a_nat.html

"We've got three choices in this: no roads, slow roads and toll roads," said Robert Black, a spokesman for Gov. Rick Perry of Texas. "Tolls have to be part of the solution, whether it be this state or any other state, simply because there is no other revenue stream out there. So any kind of outside-the-box thing is welcome at this point because you can't do things the way you have in the past."