The Grand Shopping Mall Developments

[CandW]

Yea, back when "outlet malls" were really that, you could get a good deal on items. Now every new "outlet" center that opens is just a repice of yesterday's style imo. I do shop there, but I also shop at Memorial City. The Katy Mills Mall and all malls for that matter are continuing to look for tenants....with the downturn in the economy, it will be even more difficult to retain the current tenant mix, much less add more. I think as more homes are developed to the south and west of Katy, the mall will have a better opportunity to pull some of the same tenant mix as Memorial City.

[TexasVines]

that "mall" looks like a horrible place to shop especially with kids.....dragging your purchases from store to store in the heat while nearly getting run over by all the people driving from store to store or getting back in the car for a 2 minute drive around the parking lot to get to the next store....what a beat down

I can't wait until we swing back to the intelligent concept of putting all the stores connected under one refrigerated air roof so you can at least lug your purchases with you in confort and without worrying about getting run over by anyone, but an obese mall walker!

[Trae]

Most folks don't consider Katy Mills to be a real mall because it has more of an outlet mall feel to it. Regarding the talk of a mall in Katy for a long time...my parents moved to Katy in 1979 and there were signs up for a mall to go in on the North side of I-10 between Mason and Grand Parkway. It never happened.

It was suppose to be an outlet mall like Katy Mills. The (then) Mills Corp, back in the early-mid 90s beat out the other company.

[shivani61883]

I don't consider Katy Mills similar to Memorial City, it is more of an outlet mall. I would like to see a Macys or Dillards or a large department store.

Most of the "strip malls" we have are the typical nail salon, dry cleaner, deli style restaurant (subway/quiznos/etc), hair salon and so on. If no mall at least we can get some better dining options out here. I know they are slowly coming in...I don't want another Chili's!

[Original Timmy Chan's]

It was suppose to be an outlet mall like Katy Mills. The (then) Mills Corp, back in the early-mid 90s beat out the other company.

You mean the Mills Corp BOUGHT out the other company, not BEAT out.

I recall from newspaper articles at the time (1998 or so?) that the way it went down was that the two mall developers were both moving full steam ahead on their respective sites (Katy Mills and Simon). The experts agreed that only one mall would actually get built. The Simon mall actually broke ground first and appeared to have the advantage...

...next thing you know Katy Mills bought out (or bought into) the Simon property and shut it down.

Pretty interesting stuff.

From what I know, the Simon site has been proposed as a mall since the mid-1970's. It will be developed eventually...maybe not the mall that was originally intended, but it will be developed.

[cla]

You mean the Mills Corp BOUGHT out the other company, not BEAT out.

I recall from newspaper articles at the time (1998 or so?) that the way it went down was that the two mall developers were both moving full steam ahead on their respective sites (Katy Mills and Simon). The experts agreed that only one mall would actually get built. The Simon mall actually broke ground first and appeared to have the advantage...

...next thing you know Katy Mills bought out (or bought into) the Simon property and shut it down.

Pretty interesting stuff.

From what I know, the Simon site has been proposed as a mall since the mid-1970's. It will be developed eventually...maybe not the mall that was originally intended, but it will be developed.

The Mills Corp. actually sued Simon and Chelsea premium outlets.

[Mr. B]

Just how do you all know everyone in Katy wants all this mall and retail all over the place. Quite a lot of people moved out here years ago to get away from all of that. I am sure many of them have moved on because they see to much change and to much coming in.

Not much anyone is going to do about that with all the hospitals, etc coming on line in the next few years but I just get a kick out of all these people moving out here over the past few years making demands on this and that when they haven't put in an ounce of money, etc to make Katy what it has become like many of the long time people.

I myself don't really care for it but it will come and I just hope we don't become to saturated with all the retail. When we moved out here West Oaks was a booming very nice mall now look at it. They had all the stores people wanted but its demise was simple race. As the demographics changed and the once mostly white, affluent shoppers slowly became young hispanic and black the money for the stores went with it or by that I mean the stores that anchored it the JC Penny, etc as they aren't really stores you would think young people frequent. The mall has kind of gotten a rep over the years as a gang hangout, etc. I can't say if that is a reality but it is the way the place is percieved and it used to not be that way. They spent a lot of money to update, etc and now I believe are in bankruptcy or something along those lines. Simply because they could not buy away the perception that the mall is no longer a comfort zone to people with big money or elderly or white, etc or however you want to put it.

Katy Mills is the same thing to some extent as when the mall first opened up the crowd was predomintenly different than what you see today. Now the mall never had that big pop like they expected and none of the other phases were ever built (theme park, more stores, etc) and now when you hear people talk about Katy Mills its along the same lines as West Oaks (Hook up and Hoodlum hangout). It doesn't have that great a reputation with shoppers outside of a certain demograpic. How many malls do you know that started a program to bus people in to come shop and we certainly aren't talking about them busing in affluent white folks. I don't do malls very much and maybe this is something common but it struck me as funny when I first saw it years ago.

Town and Country; not the one you know today but the old Mall; was very nice but its location and the crowd it drew did not make it a place people wanted to go.

La Centerra is nice and small wth stores that aren't for everyone and its very family friendly right now. They have nice functions with Jazz, etc. There plan if I understand is to build another phase with more stores, eateries and some high end living which would be the way to keep it from going the way of the other malls. They don't want the element we will say or the reputation for it to be the hook up and hoodlum hangout to get into place or it will fail. Putting in a very upscale senior living nearby only helps to cement that hold its trying to keep.

So if Katy were to build another mall would it fair any better than the others within a 15 mile range that were already here; maybe with the influx of all the people and then again it might become just another high dollar hook up and hoodlum hangout as folks might call them.

I think people misread things in this area to much thinking this is like The Woodlands or its going to be the next Woodlands. Don't count on that as the demographics in Katy are much different.

[Trae]

Could you just say affluent people period and not try to single different races out?

[westguy76]

Could you just say affluent people period and not try to single different races out?

Trae, he said it all very well, to the point and honest. Let's drop the PC BS. The way he described the degradation of West Oaks mall was on point. No other way to say it. Katy Mills mall may be on the same path I hope it can turn around. That being said I have no fear or apprehension going to that mall, it just looks like a train station with service straight to Mexico is located next door, seriously I think some of the people that shop there must be Mexcian nationals. I have no problem shopping there as long as people remain friendly and the retailers that matter to me stay put. West Oaks is another story I would not want my wife and son going there alone.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

The Mills Corp. actually sued Simon and Chelsea premium outlets.

[Trae]

Trae, he said it all very well, to the point and honest. Let's drop the PC BS. The way he described the degradation of West Oaks mall was on point. No other way to say it. Katy Mills mall may be on the same path I hope it can turn around. That being said I have no fear or apprehension going to that mall, it just looks like a train station with service straight to Mexico is located next door, seriously I think some of the people that shop there must be Mexcian nationals. I have no problem shopping there as long as people remain friendly and the retailers that matter to me stay put. West Oaks is another story I would not want my wife and son going there alone.

Man, Katy Mills has been the same way for as long as I can remember. It really does not look any different now, than it was four or five years ago when I went there in junior high.

[bman]

This mall has been 'planned' as far back as I can remember - even back into the late 80's when Kickerillo pretty much OWNED development out here. The one thing that actually IS different now is that they're actually clearing the land now. I suspect development is near, but I don't think it will be quick.

[katyresident]

uh oh,

Just checked the Simon website, and the Grand is no longer listed.

Can someone tell me what this means?

[CandW]

Sure...that means it's not on the books to be funded for development, lol. Simon is having trouble much like the other retail developers.

[Mr. B]

Hopefully it means that this Vapor Mall which has been hanging in the wind for 10 years is finally put to rest and dead.

No offence and some probably want it but this area does not need another mall to go bad and bring the area down.

[Trae]

This mall would definitely not put this area down. It'd be like putting a smaller Memorial City Mall in Katy (with the renderings I've seen). Definitely not bad at all. People always gripe about Katy Mills, but Times Square and the Mason rink on the weekends are worse.

[GrandLakes]

Just for the record - there were signs for a mall at that location when my parents moved to Katy in 1979. It has been 30 years.

[Mr. B]

As I said I understand there are some that want a mall but I still disagree this area does not need another mall. Its great if it works but the past history of malls around here isn't good.

And I still don't understand why there is this certain section of people that think this area needs to be crammed with all the stuff most of the people out here left to get away from. If I want to go to a mall I just get in the car and drive to the one down the road a piece.

[livincinco]

As I said I understand there are some that want a mall but I still disagree this area does not need another mall. Its great if it works but the past history of malls around here isn't good.

And I still don't understand why there is this certain section of people that think this area needs to be crammed with all the stuff most of the people out here left to get away from. If I want to go to a mall I just get in the car and drive to the one down the road a piece.

I was originally in favor of this mall, but now I have to say that I agree with Mr. B. This would be less than five miles (at most) from Katy Mills, I don't see how two malls could exist that close together without one of them going downhill fast.

Even if this mall turned out to be the nice, upscale mall that people envision, I think that it would have to have a serious negative impact on Katy Mills.

[j1gilbe]

Katy residents need to wake up and realize that we have a mall right down the road called West Oaks Mall. Why don't people from Katy support this mall? I can get to West Oaks quicker than I can get to Katy Mills from my home in Grand Lakes. The mall has a not-so-good reputation for crime, but I went with my 10 year old daughter last Sunday and my experience was not far from being very pleasant. We went to Dillards, Macy's Express and we spent a lot of money. Sure, there are alot of stores closed, ie, Gap, Limited, Hollister, etc., but only because the genre that frequents the mall are of urban fashionista. I guarantee if the snooty Katy soccer moms would give West Oaks another chance, we can reclaim this mall and have the stores we like to shop in without having to drive so far. BTW, the people we came across that day were very friendly, polite and well groomed and I felt safe. First Colony Mall....different story!

[Trae]

I was originally in favor of this mall, but now I have to say that I agree with Mr. B. This would be less than five miles (at most) from Katy Mills, I don't see how two malls could exist that close together without one of them going downhill fast.

Even if this mall turned out to be the nice, upscale mall that people envision, I think that it would have to have a serious negative impact on Katy Mills.

One is an outlet mall, the other would be a normal regional mall. Yes, there is a difference.

[livincinco]

One is an outlet mall, the other would be a normal regional mall. Yes, there is a difference.

I guess that's kind of my point. If the Grand were built, Katy Mills would have to position itself more as a value/outlet mall because the upper end stores would all go to the Grand. Especially since both are Simon properties, it would have been extremely unlikely for a retailer to open at both.

My guess is that Simon is going to try to reposition this mall into a mid tier property and let Cypress become the true "outlet" mall for the area. They're started adding a lot of national chains with their regular brand, not outlet properties. I would not be surprised at all to see a true department store go in within the next year.

[Trae]

What upper end stores are there in Katy Mills? It's all outlets, like the majority of Mills malls. I highly doubt we'll see department stores in Katy Mills.

[livincinco]

What upper end stores are there in Katy Mills? It's all outlets, like the majority of Mills malls. I highly doubt we'll see department stores in Katy Mills.

I didn't say upper end stores, I said national chains. Forever 21 and Victoria's Secret are both opening there this spring. I agree with you that Katy Mills will never be an upper end mall, but don't you think that J.C. Penney would rather be over there than in it's current location?

Look at the property, it's designed for another big box retailer to be attached to the mall next to Bass Pro Shops.

[Trae]

Of course, as of now, JCPenney would rather be where most of the people are (Katy Mills), but if "The Grand" ever happens, I think it'll turn out to be much better. Especially considering the Grand Parkway will be a third loop and The Grand will be right at the intersection of I-10 and 99.

[Sellanious Caesar]

What's the latest news on this project? Is it by any chance dead or just postponed/held off until they find a more suitable time?

http://www.simon.com/mall/LeasingSheet/Grand1206.pdf

It's been about 2 years since we've heard from them.

[intencity77]

What's the latest news on this project? Is it by any chance dead or just postponed/held off until they find a more suitable time?

http://www.simon.com/mall/LeasingSheet/Grand1206.pdf

It's been about 2 years since we've heard from them.

According to a 2009 update, this project has been put on indefinite hold and the land was/has been put back on the market.

The Grand

[livincinco]

Completely dead. The land is on the market, but I doubt that there will ever be a mall there.

[Trae]

I won't doubt there ever being a mall there (if not a mall, something else significant will be built there). It's in a good location, and the growing Katy area needs a real "regional" mall, instead of the outlets at Katy Mills. It'll happen, sooner or later, but the recession did kill it for the time being.