Texas as a Whole

[IronTiger]

There's a certain group of people around HAIF who always dream up ways to make Houston a superior, world-class city, comparing it to many other American cities: Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta, Austin, and Dallas.

But as much as we'd like that to come true, consider this: when you look at Texas as a whole, you get four fine cities, all wrapped up in a triangular interstate system. Can you imagine New York without NYC? Or Massachusetts without Boston? Or Illinois without Chicago? Or Georgia without Atlanta? Of course not, because beyond their Flagship City™, they have nothing to offer. But in Texas, we not only have Houston, but San Antonio, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Austin. And when you throw in the other interstate cities (Waco, for example) and other cities not terribly away from the perimeter of the triangle (College Station-Bryan) you have a full house.

So if you feel like Houston is not big enough or grand enough, take a look at Texas as a whole, a world-class state in itself.

[TheNiche]

Of course not, because beyond their Flagship City™, they have nothing to offer.

You aren't much of an outdoorsman, are you?

[UrbaNerd]

*sigh*

*headdesk*

[kylejack]

Oh no, another Iron Tiger thread!

[JLWM8609]

when you look at Texas as a whole, you get four fine cities, all wrapped up in a triangular interstate system. . . in Texas, we not only have Houston, but San Antonio, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Austin.

I count five.

[IronTiger]

I count five.

For all intents and purposes, Dallas-Fort Worth counts as one. Yes, I do realize that they are one, but as an MSA they count as one. I was going by MSAs, really. See, if I counted real cities (which I did not), I should've counted places like Sugar Land as individual distinct cities in the Triangle.

You aren't much of an outdoorsman, are you?

Maybe the phrase "nothing to offer" was a bit too strong. If I could edit posts (which I can't...grr) that should be "not much to offer". The sad fact is, most of the other states in the Union often have golf courses as the top thing in the tourist guides because there's not much else...

[TheNiche]

Maybe the phrase "nothing to offer" was a bit too strong. If I could edit posts (which I can't...grr) that should be "not much to offer". The sad fact is, most of the other states in the Union often have golf courses as the top thing in the tourist guides because there's not much else...

Let me give you a specific example of what I mean. Upstate New York has the Adirondacks (*sp), Niagra Falls, the old canal systems, and the Finger Lakes. It also has plenty of golf courses, B&Bs, luxury hotels and spas, an aggregious number of tourist traps and all the other stuff you'd expect to find in one of the travel brochures sitting in a rack at a hotel lobby or disbursed by an economic development entitiy. These amenities are advertised because out of the combination of business and pleasure travelers, and out of whatever combination of single, married, family, or elderly travelers, that's where the money is. Any decent golf course is going to perform better, financially, than the majority of state or national parks. And someone that plays golf is probably going to drop a fair bit more money into the local economy than will someone enjoying a few nights of lakeside camping. Just because you aren't aware of a particular amenity or are not personally interested in it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or doesn't have value.

[citizen4rmptown]

Let me give you a specific example of what I mean. Upstate New York has the Adirondacks (*sp), Niagra Falls, the old canal systems, and the Finger Lakes. It also has plenty of golf courses, B&Bs, luxury hotels and spas, an aggregious number of tourist traps and all the other stuff you'd expect to find in one of the travel brochures sitting in a rack at a hotel lobby or disbursed by an economic development entitiy. These amenities are advertised because out of the combination of business and pleasure travelers, and out of whatever combination of single, married, family, or elderly travelers, that's where the money is. Any decent golf course is going to perform better, financially, than the majority of state or national parks. And someone that plays golf is probably going to drop a fair bit more money into the local economy than will someone enjoying a few nights of lakeside camping. Just because you aren't aware of a particular amenity or are not personally interested in it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or doesn't have value.

I thought he meant nothing to offer in the sense that there is no other major city to visit. Obviously, every state has something to offer in terms of outdoor activities.

[AtticaFlinch]

I thought he meant nothing to offer in the sense that there is no other major city to visit.

What about Buffalo?

Edit: Not to mention, even though not in the same state, Boston, Philadelphia and Providence are all closer to NYC than Houston is to either Dallas, San Antonio or Austin. Sure it's not the same state, but those other cities are far more accessible to each other.

Edited March 14, 2010 by AtticaFlinch

[IronTiger]

What about Buffalo?

Edit: Not to mention, even though not in the same state, Boston, Philadelphia and Providence are all closer to NYC than Houston is to either Dallas, San Antonio or Austin. Sure it's not the same state, but those other cities are far more accessible to each other.

Yes, I did realize that the Boston/Philly/DC/NYC/etc. megalopolis is closer together than the Austin/DFW/Houston/SA triangle. Now, if they were in the same state, we'd all be screwed.

In terms of outdoor activities, every state DOES offer something...but the "lesser" states often have golf and fishing as their main selling point.

[20thStDad]

*sigh*

*headdesk*

Read my mind

[citizen4rmptown]

What about Buffalo?

Edit: Not to mention, even though not in the same state, Boston, Philadelphia and Providence are all closer to NYC than Houston is to either Dallas, San Antonio or Austin. Sure it's not the same state, but those other cities are far more accessible to each other.

I guess you can kind of, sorta, say Buffalo is a major city, but not really. In that case, in addition to the major metros of Houston, DFW, San Antonio, and Austin, you would be able to say that El Paso and South Texas(McAllen+Brownsville) are major metros as well.

[plumber2]

You really can't leave out El Paso. It just recently got passed up by Austin as the #4 city in Texas, and if you add in the population of it's sister city Jaurez, you get a metropolis of over 1 million people.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

But in Texas, we not only have Houston, but San Antonio, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Austin. And when you throw in the other interstate cities (Waco, for example) and other cities not terribly away from the perimeter of the triangle (College Station-Bryan) you have a full house.

Houston, DFW, San Antonio, Austin, Waco and Bryan. Yup, that's about right.

[TheNiche]

I guess you can kind of, sorta, say Buffalo is a major city, but not really. In that case, in addition to the major metros of Houston, DFW, San Antonio, and Austin, you would be able to say that El Paso and South Texas(McAllen+Brownsville) are major metros as well.

He's only looking at cities alog or within the Interstate Triangle, except that his other comments indicate that he's looking at state-by-state comparisons...even though he knows better than to rely on political boundaries to provide economic descriptions as evidenced by his use of MSAs rather than municipalities.

Bottom line is, IronTiger needs to better organize his thoughts before putting them out there.

Oh, and as for South Texas, Hidalgo County and Cameron County are considered their own separate MSAs.

[TheNiche]

Houston, DFW, San Antonio, Austin, Waco and Bryan. Yup, that's about right.

If you're going to thow in Waco, then you really ought to throw in Temple-Belton-Killeen-Copperas Cove.

[citizen4rmptown]

He's only looking at cities alog or within the Interstate Triangle, except that his other comments indicate that he's looking at state-by-state comparisons...even though he knows better than to rely on political boundaries to provide economic descriptions as evidenced by his use of MSAs rather than municipalities.

Bottom line is, IronTiger needs to better organize his thoughts before putting them out there.

Oh, and as for South Texas, Hidalgo County and Cameron County are considered their own separate MSAs.

Yeah, I know. But I just grouped them together as the MSA's border each other. And they are similar for the most part. They should be considered one CSA, I guess its due to commuter patterns or something.

[Fringe]

You can't leave Amarillo out. 

[N Judah]

So if you feel like Houston is not big enough or grand enough, take a look at Texas as a whole, a world-class state in itself.

But you have to admit their Flagship Cities are usually pretty cool, definitely at least as nice as anything we've got to show here. In that sense Texas is like Wal-Mart -- it may not be as nice, but it's cheaper and we do it in volume!

Edited March 15, 2010 by N Judah

[TheNiche]

Yeah, I know. But I just grouped them together as the MSA's border each other. And they are similar for the most part. They should be considered one CSA, I guess its due to commuter patterns or something.

They're part of the same media market for that reason, however cross-commuting is fairly limited.

[Highway6]

If he's going to count Waco.. then he needs to be counting Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and countless other cities in other states .... which I'm sure does something awful to whatever his point was about states with only one Flagship City.....

And why is Flagship City trademarked ?

[AtticaFlinch]

And why is Flagship City trademarked ?

Because he charges for use.

You now owe IronTiger fifty cents.

[citizen4rmptown]

If he's going to count Waco.. then he needs to be counting Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and countless other cities in other states .... which I'm sure does something awful to whatever his point was about states with only one Flagship City.....

And why is Flagship City trademarked ?

Woah! Ohio is its own state with multiple "major" cities in its own. Its a lesser version of TX in a sense.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

If he's going to count Waco.. then he needs to be counting Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and countless other cities in other states ....

Except that Waco isn't a Cleveland/Columbus/Cincinnati...it's not even near the class of a Toledo. More like a Parma.

[plumber2]

Except that Waco isn't a Cleveland/Columbus/Cincinnati...it's not even near the class of a Toledo. More like a Parma.

Holy Toledo!, you're giving me the Willys!

[Robert W. Boyd]

There's a certain group of people around HAIF who always dream up ways to make Houston a superior, world-class city, comparing it to many other American cities: Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta, Austin, and Dallas.

But as much as we'd like that to come true, consider this: when you look at Texas as a whole, you get four fine cities, all wrapped up in a triangular interstate system. Can you imagine New York without NYC? Or Massachusetts without Boston? Or Illinois without Chicago? Or Georgia without Atlanta? Of course not, because beyond their Flagship City™, they have nothing to offer. But in Texas, we not only have Houston, but San Antonio, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Austin. And when you throw in the other interstate cities (Waco, for example) and other cities not terribly away from the perimeter of the triangle (College Station-Bryan) you have a full house.

So if you feel like Houston is not big enough or grand enough, take a look at Texas as a whole, a world-class state in itself.

This is an amazingly silly statement. Texas is a large state--of course there's lots of stuff outside of Houston. But the same is true in each of the other states you mention and casually dismiss. I lived in western Massachusetts for several years and still miss its beauty, its colleges (Williams, Amherst, Smith, Mount Holyoke, U. Mass, and Hampshire) and the many excellent cultural events they had, Tanglewood, Mass MOCA, the freaking Berkshires in autumn, etc. (I could do without Springfield, though. But I could say the same about Waco as well, heh heh.)And that's just the western, more rural part of what is a very small state, after all. Most states have a lot to offer outside their major cities. I hardly think Texas is inherently superior (or worse)--its size means that it has more stuff. But when you think about how far apart Houston, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio are (not to mention El Paso), imagine what you can reach from Boston within a similar radius? (Boston is closer to NYC than Houston is to Dallas, for example.) I'm not saying that you shouldn't be proud of Texas--you just don't need to run down other states to do so.