Sharpstown Real Estate

[stu]

when the area was developing, did the residents fight at the time to keep out the overbuilding of apartments? I mean, if I was dropping a $150,000 house I don't want my hood surrounded by walls of apartments..

It isn't really Sharpstown, but it will illustrate the point. For reference, and for perspective, in 1957 when my dad bought our brand new 3 bedroom house on the 5500 block of Arboles, south of West Bellfort by Westbury Square, he paid $12,500 for the house. There were no apartments in the area. Thirteen years later, when I moved out into my first apartment, on Glenmont in the Gulfton area, it was a brand new complex, just built, and rent was $104.00 a month. Adults only..no families allowed.

It was not a problem in the beginning, as they were being built, I think..No one saw it coming in 1970. when I was in Westbury High School during the late 60's there was not one single black nor non-English speaking student; not one. We had a black math teacher, a nice enough fellow. Not that skin color or national origin is a reliable test of character; of course it isn't, and that isn't my point. It was just a different world in Westbury at that time..Fondren was a shell road with countryside on both sides pretty much from Main to Braeswood..no apartments there whatsoever, just a few units by the square..To be 'walled in' as you say, by apartments full of thugs was inconceivable, back when the houses were built. It is amazing how different Sharpstown and Westbury seem now to those of us who lived there in the late 50's and early 60's. Looking back, t'was the apartments that did it, agreed.

LarryDallas said a mouthful when he mentioned that the nature of apartments changed in the early 80's. There was a Federal lawsuit, late 70's actually, after which all apartments that previously only allowed adults, for example, had to allow families. Whole neighborhoods, nationwide, quickly changed to low rent ghettos as a result of that ruling.

whoever mentioned the 'greying of Sharpstown' had a big pice of the puzzle too. That post made a lot of sense..

[musicman]

LarryDallas said a mouthful when he mentioned that the nature of apartments changed in the early 80's. There was a Federal lawsuit, late 70's actually, after which all apartments that previously only allowed adults, for example, had to allow families. Whole neighborhoods, nationwide, quickly changed to low rent ghettos as a result of that ruling.

interesting comment. i know there are several SROs now that are limited to one person. seems like that would be illegal as well. but i can see how the ruling would change the area.

[hbcu]

most of those familes moved to the area where I grew up in.....there were no apartments for miles but they still moved away.....

what people don't understand is they are building these luxury apartments now in droves....if the economy bottoms out and theose places go empty...what will eventually happen?

[musicman]

most of those familes moved to the area where I grew up in.....there were no apartments for miles but they still moved away.....

what people don't understand is they are building these luxury apartments now in droves....if the economy bottoms out and theose places go empty...what will eventually happen?

you got it!! they definitely are cyclical!

[gwilson]

I dont think the heart of the area was the mall by any means. The heart of the area was originally and always has been the neighborhoods.

The mall is a worth while venture to redevelop because of it's location right off the freeway and the neighborhoods surrounding it.

There are currently plans to develop the old Gillman lot at the corner of Fondren and Bellaire and the city just spent several million redoing the intersection (this progress will be moving down Bellaire through Sharpstown all the way to the Beltway).

I'd love to see the mall modernized and returned to it's former glory. Lord knows we need real restaurants around here.

[hbcu]

can anyone verify the purpose of Westwood Mall? What was it in existance when Sharpstown was so close? They spent major money to redevelop it I remember in the late 80s

[Pumapayam]

can anyone verify the purpose of Westwood Mall? What was it in existance when Sharpstown was so close? They spent major money to redevelop it I remember in the late 80s

Yes, it was still in exisitance. I was in a theatre production there for the Lion Witch and the Wardrobe back in 1996 I believe. It was a meager mall, very bland and tiny.

They were definately too close to each other, like Town and County and Memorial City Mall were at one time.

[TheNiche]

can anyone verify the purpose of Westwood Mall? What was it in existance when Sharpstown was so close? They spent major money to redevelop it I remember in the late 80s

Purpose: to lease enclosed climate-controlled space to retail tenants.

Justification: former demographics.

Cause of failure: change of demographics, increasing competition with a superior mall, and ultimately a viable redevelopment plan.

[musicman]

can anyone verify the purpose of Westwood Mall? What was it in existance when Sharpstown was so close? They spent major money to redevelop it I remember in the late 80s

Westwood had Sears and Joske's i believe which weren't located at Sharpstown so while yes it was close to Sharpstown, it wasn't in direct competition.

A similar relationship to almeda and baybrook which originally had no overlapping stores.

[TheNiche]

Westwood had Sears and Joske's i believe which weren't located at Sharpstown so while yes it was close to Sharpstown, it wasn't in direct competition.

A similar relationship to almeda and baybrook which originally had no overlapping stores.

Westwood to Sharpstown is about 2.5 miles.

Baybrook to Almeda is about 6 miles.

Also, anchors aren't the bread and butter. They tend to get space pretty much at-cost because they are the justifications for in-line tenants. This is why Northwest Mall is still financially viable. They may be lacking an anchor, basically killing the north side of the complex, but if you go inside, there's still plenty of activity among the smaller retailers.

Pasadena Town Square, on the other hand...

[musicman]

Westwood to Sharpstown is about 2.5 miles.

Baybrook to Almeda is about 6 miles.

Also, anchors aren't the bread and butter. They tend to get space pretty much at-cost because they are the justifications for in-line tenants. This is why Northwest Mall is still financially viable. They may be lacking an anchor, basically killing the north side of the complex, but if you go inside, there's still plenty of activity among the smaller retailers.

Pasadena Town Square, on the other hand...

by car the distance is basically negligible. I know before the foley's baybrook opened, you still had quite a few clear lake residents going to almeda just because of foley's. particularly for the red apple sales. my old officemate went to every red apple sale. i knew that when baybrook added a foley's and penney's, almeda's stores would suffer as a result. when the penney's closed, it was replaced by two stores according to someone i know that works in the catalog area. the fairmont one and the pearland one because they felt their customer base had shifted.

[TheNiche]

by car the distance is basically negligible. I know before the foley's baybrook opened, you still had quite a few clear lake residents going to almeda just because of foley's. particularly for the red apple sales. my old officemate went to every red apple sale. i knew that when baybrook added a foley's and penney's, almeda's stores would suffer as a result. when the penney's closed, it was replaced by two stores according to someone i know that works in the catalog area. the fairmont one and the pearland one because they felt their customer base had shifted.

Again, the in-line retailers are what really count in the regional mall game. And when demographics turn sour, there are only so many mall-oriented in-line tenants that are willing to open a store. Since retailers typically make decisions based upon demographic radii that almost never exceed 5 miles, the competition for bread-and-butter tenants between Sharpstown/Westwood would be far greater than between Almeda/Baybrook.

[musicman]

Again, the in-line retailers are what really count in the regional mall game. And when demographics turn sour, there are only so many mall-oriented in-line tenants that are willing to open a store. Since retailers typically make decisions based upon demographic radii that almost never exceed 5 miles, the competition for bread-and-butter tenants between Sharpstown/Westwood would be far greater than between Almeda/Baybrook.

thank you ed wulfe-wannabe for the lesson in mall development. like i said, the customer base shifted which resulted in stores closing/opening.

[TheNiche]

thank you ed wulfe-wannabe for the lesson in mall development.

Ed doesn't own or develop malls, he redevelops them into power centers.

like i said, the customer base shifted which resulted in stores closing/opening.

Like I said, the in-line tenants are what matter most to the bottom line. Almeda is better positioned to compete with Baybrook in that regard than Westwood was with Sharpstown, hands down.

[musicman]

Ed doesn't own or develop malls, he redevelops them into power centers.

Like I said, the in-line tenants are what matter most to the bottom line. Almeda is better positioned to compete with Baybrook in that regard than Westwood was with Sharpstown, hands down.

according to the international council of shopping centers (ICSC) "But developer Ed Wulfe, president of the locally based Wulfe & Co., saw opportunity. He purchased the property in 1998, razed it and proposed replacing it with the open-air Gulfgate Center." The ICSC calls him a developer and he purchased Gulfgate in 1998. If that's not an owner, i don't know what is.

if the customer base isn't there, in-line tenants make no difference.

[TheNiche]

according to the international council of shopping centers (ICSC) "But developer Ed Wulfe, president of the locally based Wulfe & Co., saw opportunity. He purchased the property in 1998, razed it and proposed replacing it with the open-air Gulfgate Center." The ICSC calls him a developer and he purchased Gulfgate in 1998. If that's not an owner, i don't know what is.

Yeah, you can't knock down a mall if you don't legally own it!

if the customer base isn't there, in-line tenants make no difference.

Your argument is poorly-formed to begin with, because you were talking earlier about Foley's customer base, but that customer base is irrelevant to the small retailers, which I keep telling you are a mall owner's bread-and-butter.

What can be relevant is that an anchor create enough foot traffic to support the in-line tenants, but malls like Northwest clearly show that losing an anchor isn't necessarily all that bad so long as the in-line tenants don't start going under.

[musicman]

Your argument is poorly-formed to begin with, because you were talking earlier about Foley's customer base, but that customer base is irrelevant to the small retailers, which I keep telling you are a mall owner's bread-and-butter.

What can be relevant is that an anchor create enough foot traffic to support the in-line tenants, but malls like Northwest clearly show that losing an anchor isn't necessarily all that bad so long as the in-line tenants don't start going under.

if i remember correctly, our discussion began when i said that the anchor stores at the 2 malls aren't in direct competition(foley's vs foley's). then i mentioned that as the customer base shifts, the anchors are shifting (closing) to meet the demand. whether you believe it, this results in fewer customers at the mall, which affects in-line tenants. Look at the number of cars in the parking lot now vs. 20 yrs ago. i can assure you, the in-line tenants are being affected by the closing of the anchor stores. there are definitely less patrons now.

[TheNiche]

if i remember correctly, our discussion began when i said that the anchor stores at the 2 malls aren't in direct competition(foley's vs foley's). then i mentioned that as the customer base shifts, the anchors are shifting (closing) to meet the demand. whether you believe it, this results in fewer customers at the mall, which affects in-line tenants. Look at the number of cars in the parking lot now vs. 20 yrs ago. i can assure you, the in-line tenants are being affected by the closing of the anchor stores. there are definitely less patrons now.

And if you remember correctly, I kept referring to Northwest Mall as an example of where a dead anchor didn't take down the in-line tenants. Northline, like Almeda, doesn't have any competition within a distance that is relevant to retail site selection folks. Westwood, on the other hand, did.

I've made my point...too many times, now. :closedeyes:

[musicman]

And if you remember correctly, I kept referring to Northwest Mall as an example of where a dead anchor didn't take down the in-line tenants. Northline, like Almeda, doesn't have any competition within a distance that is relevant to retail site selection folks. Westwood, on the other hand, did.

I've made my point...too many times, now. :closedeyes:

The number of tenants at both Almeda and Northwest have gone down due to the closure of the anchor stores. To say that the in-line tenants weren't affected as a result of the closures is wrong. You've provided no proof to show otherwise. I frequent Almeda more than the others and can definitively say, that the in-line tenants have been affected. Some are still open while others have closed.

[TheNiche]

The number of tenants at both Almeda and Northwest have gone down due to the closure of the anchor stores. To say that the in-line tenants weren't affected as a result of the closures is wrong. You've provided no proof to show otherwise. I frequent Almeda more than the others and can definitively say, that the in-line tenants have been affected. Some are still open while others have closed.

I think we're defining healthy by different terms. I define it financially, as it would affect the owner, because that is the entity that makes decisions related to divestiture and redevelopment, and that is the subject that was originally being discussed. You seem to be defining the health of the mall by the amount of consumer traffic it can capture.

The two measures are correlated, but do not necessarily equal. I have provided examples to that effect.

[gwilson]

Just FYI, Sharpstown's downward trend was a result of being too close to Westwood. The two competed for customers, and were an exit away from each other. Sharpstown ultimately won, but by that point, it was too late. The customer base was split already and those who preferred Westwood shifted to the relatively new First Colony Mall (which stole a lot of Sharpstown's thunder as the primary mall on the SW side).

The shift in the customer base came later (not long later).

[apollopride]

thats prob the one I was at...it was an estate sale. This neighborhood looks like a real option for me.

Greaser - we moved into our Sharpstown house in Feb 1966 (just down the street from the house you speak of on Osage). My Father recently passed away and our house will be on the market soon (after the estate sale this weekend).

I have always felt safe in our little neighborhood! I love our house and our neighbors. If my husband weren't so sold on Sugar Land, I would live there in an instant. It has always been the main thoroughfares surrounding the neighborhood that were iffy - but even that is changing now. They are putting a lot of effort into beautifying the Bellaire/Fondren intersection. For 40 plus years we couldn't turn left from Bellaire onto Fondren - and now we can - woo hoo!

Anyway - I really hope that a wonderful person who will respect our neighborhood and our house will eventually buy it - so come by the estate sale this weekend and have a look! The house is on Rowan, which runs perpendicular to the house on Osage.

[apollopride]

Greaser - we moved into our Sharpstown house in Feb 1966 (just down the street from the house you speak of on Osage). My Father recently passed away and our house will be on the market soon (after the estate sale this weekend).

I have always felt safe in our little neighborhood! I love our house and our neighbors. If my husband weren't so sold on Sugar Land, I would live there in an instant. It has always been the main thoroughfares surrounding the neighborhood that were iffy - but even that is changing now. They are putting a lot of effort into beautifying the Bellaire/Fondren intersection. For 40 plus years we couldn't turn left from Bellaire onto Fondren - and now we can - woo hoo!

Anyway - I really hope that a wonderful person who will respect our neighborhood and our house will eventually buy it - so come by the estate sale this weekend and have a look! The house is on Rowan, which runs perpendicular to the house on Osage.

I just re-read my post, and it sounds like a totally self-serving advertisement. But that's not the case. I really do have a lot of pride in the neighborhood!

[apollopride]

Inside of old Sharpstown? Are we talking old teardowns with new construction? Any idea on builder, specs, and/or price?

Probably talking about the house on Burning Tree that burned down. They rebuilt with one of those mcmansions...but not quite.

[gwilson]

I was driving around yesterday looking for a lot over off Wateka in between Bissonett and Beechnut and I drove down the street next to it (Brae Acres) and I noticed some new large/luxury construction and I thought I'd take some pics for you guys.

I'd like to see Sharpstown establish some new construction design guidelines so we don't end up with the same things that are happening in Bellaire where you have a 1940s bungalow next to a contemporary, next to a new spanish, next to a sugarbrick, across the street from a purple house. I also would like to see rules stating that you cannot take down trees on the street or so many feet from the street. The tree lined streets in Sharpstown are what make it so beautiful. I think there also needs to be, included in the design guidelines, rules to keep a general aesthetic to the current architecture (mid-century ranches and bungalows).

[Jeebus]

I agree with your concerns for Sharpstown, and the reference to Bellaire for comparison - but where/how does Brae Acres come into play?

[gwilson]

These houses, so far as I can tell, are in Sharpstown Country Club Terrace III.

There is other new construction in CCTII. I don't know about CCTI because I don't go there and in CCEI & II the homes are bigger and nicer so they will take a bit longer before they are teardowns.

[Jeebus]

I was under the impression that these larger homes (on subsequently larger acrage) were part of the Brae Acres community. They even have little wooden signs at Wateka & Brae Acres identifying them. Then directly to the east of that is Braeburn Valley, isn't it?

[gwilson]

Yes, but they are still part of Sharpstown CCTIII.

Even if they werent, they aren't far enough away to make a difference.

[LarryDallas]

Oh God...here we go again. I can't tell you how much I HATE when they just cut down all of the large trees and plant twigs in front of new construction to make it look better. These folks are taking a gamble with the contruction. The apartments that have become rundown in the area will not go away for a long time. Even in disrepair the city does not really condem properties at a fast pace.

I too would like to see the bugalows and ranch homes preserved along with the majestic trees in the area. If people want the lastest and greatest in home technology they can guy any of these existing homes to the 2x4s and put in the best HVAC, data cables, insuallation, etc.... Personally, I would want to maintain a low profile and have the best in my home but keep it ordinary looking from the exterior.