Construction On Yale St.

[Angostura]

The bigger issue as far as the trees would be the intent to widen the lanes from 10 feet to 11 feet. Wider lanes would increase the speed of the cars on Yale, as drivers will feel safer doing so. This would also take out the trees. THAT proposal, we can both agree is not necessarily an improvement. Cars already managed 35 mph, and many drive faster. A wider street would make it worse.

I think most people would agree that Yale would benefit from resurfacing. Since Heights Blvd is now basically 1 lane in either direction, a lot of traffic has already been diverted to Yale.

My concern with the baseline plan, in addition to the loss of the trees, is the impact on the walkability of the neighborhood. Four 10-ft lanes is probably OK, though I'd prefer three 11-ft lanes with wider sidewalks.

Four 11-ft lanes on the existing ROW will be pretty unpleasant to walk along or across.

[musicman]

My concern with the baseline plan, in addition to the loss of the trees, is the impact on the walkability of the neighborhood. Four 10-ft lanes is probably OK, though I'd prefer three 11-ft lanes with wider sidewalks.

Four 11-ft lanes on the existing ROW will be pretty unpleasant to walk along or across.

with the blvd one short block away, not sure why this would be an issue.

[SaintCyr]

with the blvd one short block away, not sure why this would be an issue.

I see it as an issue simply because if we make it less walkable we turn it into something along the lines of Shepherd/Durham. Where by keeping it walkable it would attract more businesses such as those on 19th focused on people in the area as their main clientel. If the lanes widen and it becomes a speedway it will affect the surrounding neighborhoods and attract big box businesses that will change the feel and culture of our area.

[musicman]

I see it as an issue simply because if we make it less walkable we turn it into something along the lines of Shepherd/Durham. Where by keeping it walkable it would attract more businesses such as those on 19th focused on people in the area as their main clientel. If the lanes widen and it becomes a speedway it will affect the surrounding neighborhoods and attract big box businesses that will change the feel and culture of our area.

the sidewalks will be better than they are now, as will the roads, which are in need of refurbishment.

[RedScare]

I see it as an issue simply because if we make it less walkable we turn it into something along the lines of Shepherd/Durham. Where by keeping it walkable it would attract more businesses such as those on 19th focused on people in the area as their main clientel. If the lanes widen and it becomes a speedway it will affect the surrounding neighborhoods and attract big box businesses that will change the feel and culture of our area.

It is a virtual impossibility to make Yale Street less walkable than it is in its current configuration.

[Angostura]

It is a virtual impossibility to make Yale Street less walkable than it is in its current configuration.

I think you underestimate the abilities of our local traffic officials.

Here's a pic of Yale St. between 17th and 18th:

Adding 2 ft of roadway on either side virtually eliminates the buffer between the (now faster-moving) traffic and the (already quite narrow) sidewalks.

With respect to the blvd being an alternative "walkable" area, that's fine to the extent that we're talking about walking as a recreational activity. But walkability as a lifestyle or neighborhood ideal isn't served by a single esplanade providing a pleasant area to stroll on.

There's also the question of getting TO the blvd. IIRC, there's currently no traffic control between 14th and 19th streets on Yale, so if you're unfortunate enough to live in the Western half of the Heights, your walk to the esplanade will get a little more unpleasant.

[musicman]

There's also the question of getting TO the blvd. IIRC, there's currently no traffic control between 14th and 19th streets on Yale, so if you're unfortunate enough to live in the Western half of the Heights, your walk to the esplanade will get a little more unpleasant.

if someone has problems crossing a street such as yale, there must be some health issues involved. from the pic you posted, with one truck on the road, traffic control would make things worse.

[Tiko]

if someone has problems crossing a street such as yale, there must be some health issues involved. from the pic you posted, with one truck on the road, traffic control would make things worse.

We try to walk around when the weather is nice. Try escorting a 4 year olds across Yale anywhere between 14th and 19th during rush hour or on a Saturday. It can get pretty exciting...

[SaintCyr]

Musicman,

In the present scope for the construction on Yale there are no intentions of touching (neither improving or repairing) the side walks. Its simply calls for widening to 11' lanes and removing anything that might obstruct that from happening. I have to agree, something needs to be done about the road (not just resurfaced "again"). It does need to be completely overhauled.

Just to clarify, the city did state they would use a 0 foot policy (or somthing named along those lines) when assessing which trees could stay and Yale does vary from 40-42' currently which would mean widening only 1' on each side in some areas.

As far as making snide comments, please keep them to yourself, the last was uneeded and in response to a legitimate concern. A person with health issues still has the right to cross the street and yes traffic control at certain locations would make this much safer for ANYONE health issues aside.

RedScare,

I agree that it would be difficult to make Yale less walkable than it is now, however it would make it less of a pleasure with no trees and walking right next to the street with cars zooming by at 50MPH.

Not to mention that I enjoy the trees there as they knock some of the noise down and would create a barrier from a car barreling into my house or myself when I do walk along Yale.

So, I guess my point in all of this is that I see it as a huge opportunity to get involved with some of our neighborhood planning with the city so we all can enjoy a better road and see if we can't guide the city in how we want our area to look/feel. Besides, I'd like to see Yale follow suit with Heights and become an enjoyable street that provides more for the surrounding community rather than the entire greater Houston area. That being said, please chime in if you want some clarification or have something constructive to add.

Thanks,

D

[musicman]

Musicman,

In the present scope for the construction on Yale there are no intentions of touching (neither improving or repairing) the side walks.

According to the CIP referenced earlier, this is incorrect. Project provides for engineering, and rehabilitation of the four lane concrete roadway, curbs, sidewalks and necessary underground utilities.

[SaintCyr]

According to the CIP referenced earlier, this is incorrect. Project provides for engineering, and rehabilitation of the four lane concrete roadway, curbs, sidewalks and necessary underground utilities.

Good point, I asked about that and the utilities being buried and was told that the only time the sidewalks would be modified was when the drains needed repair/modification and that the utilities top-side were not getting buried but could be moved back toward the houses if needed.

They should have a revised plan out sometime soon with more detail and clarification.

[RedScare]

Musicman,

In the present scope for the construction on Yale there are no intentions of touching (neither improving or repairing) the side walks. Its simply calls for widening to 11' lanes and removing anything that might obstruct that from happening. I have to agree, something needs to be done about the road (not just resurfaced "again"). It does need to be completely overhauled.

Just to clarify, the city did state they would use a 0 foot policy (or somthing named along those lines) when assessing which trees could stay and Yale does vary from 40-42' currently which would mean widening only 1' on each side in some areas.

As far as making snide comments, please keep them to yourself, the last was uneeded and in response to a legitimate concern. A person with health issues still has the right to cross the street and yes traffic control at certain locations would make this much safer for ANYONE health issues aside.

RedScare,

I agree that it would be difficult to make Yale less walkable than it is now, however it would make it less of a pleasure with no trees and walking right next to the street with cars zooming by at 50MPH.

Not to mention that I enjoy the trees there as they knock some of the noise down and would create a barrier from a car barreling into my house or myself when I do walk along Yale.

So, I guess my point in all of this is that I see it as a huge opportunity to get involved with some of our neighborhood planning with the city so we all can enjoy a better road and see if we can't guide the city in how we want our area to look/feel. Besides, I'd like to see Yale follow suit with Heights and become an enjoyable street that provides more for the surrounding community rather than the entire greater Houston area. That being said, please chime in if you want some clarification or have something constructive to add.

Thanks,

D

I agree that removing mature trees is not a favorable option. I simply disagree that Yale is currently some sort of idyllic lane that's a pleasure to walk along. I would point out that the Studewood repaving actually made it a more walkable street. Since it is pretty much assured that Yale will be rebuilt, it is in the neighborhood's interest to make constructive criticism and suggestions, rather than the temper tantrums that have become the norm at most dealings with the City.

For instance, it has been made known that we REALLY want to keep the mature trees. That should continue. As for widening the street 1 to 2 feet on each side, this in and of itself is not a problem. Only where it requires losing a tree is it a problem. The Heights is laid out with 70 foot ROWs along the streets. I would be VERY surprised if Yale is not also a 70 foot ROW. Subtracting 44 feet from 70 feet, that leaves 26 feet...13 feet per side...for sidewalks. Most sidewalks are 4 feet wide, leaving up to 9 feet between the sidewalk and street for trees. I realize that looking at many parts of Yale, it may not appear that the ROW is 70 feet, but it probably is. That is more than enough room for a "walkable" sidewalk.

Considering what an improvement the Studewood redo is, I am not willing to jump on the "City always screws it up" bandwagon. In fact, if the redo looks anything like Studewood, I look forward to it.

[NYC Texan3]

I don't know the answer to this, but I do have some concern about 11' lanes. Does anyone know if that is comparable to a downtown street lane? Or is it wider?

We have a number of houses and townhouses on Yale, and I would not want the city to cause a major uptick in traffic that (1) increases noise and pushes away the residential momentum that is there (in a limited but visible form); and (2) provides Houston's average urban vista that begs "build strip centers here". We have more than enough room for new commercial on 11th/ 6th / 19th / Washington / I-10 frontage roads (please, please take out the adult video). We don't need a master plan that adds more on Yale, IMHO.

[musicman]

I don't know the answer to this, but I do have some concern about 11' lanes. Does anyone know if that is comparable to a downtown street lane? Or is it wider?

downtown's are wider

[heights_yankee]

I don't know the answer to this, but I do have some concern about 11' lanes. Does anyone know if that is comparable to a downtown street lane? Or is it wider?

We have a number of houses and townhouses on Yale, and I would not want the city to cause a major uptick in traffic that (1) increases noise and pushes away the residential momentum that is there (in a limited but visible form); and (2) provides Houston's average urban vista that begs "build strip centers here". We have more than enough room for new commercial on 11th/ 6th / 19th / Washington / I-10 frontage roads (please, please take out the adult video). We don't need a master plan that adds more on Yale, IMHO.

i agree. developers are so keen to build townhouses and yale is a good street for that. too much traffic and they start pushing the townhomes back in to the other parts of the neighborhood. and if people can think it's smart to build strip centers on the blvd, even when others close by sit empty, imagine the empty brick squares we'll end up with all up and down yale. plenty of used car lots for sale on shepherd/durham, people....

[20thStDad]

The lots on Yale are similar to those on Studewood, they seem too shallow to do much with a business. It would have to be a small bungalow business or be done at one of the bigger intersections where they can go more than one lot deep. Like the one that sits empty at 14th or 11th that just got redone.

I think it would be cool if Yale filled in with townhomes (in empty or run-down spaces) that all came up to the street and had balconies, then it would be a great parade route. Assuming a parade gets started up. Sorry, Louisiana flashbacks.

[RedScare]

The lots on Yale are similar to those on Studewood, they seem too shallow to do much with a business. It would have to be a small bungalow business or be done at one of the bigger intersections where they can go more than one lot deep. Like the one that sits empty at 14th or 11th that just got redone.

Not according to the maps on HCAD. Yale lots are 132 feet deep, whereas most lots on Studewood do not front Studewood. Therefore, Studewood lots tend to be 50 feet deep. At the far north end of Studewood, some of the lots front the street, but those are only 100 feet deep.

[heights_yankee]

The lots on Yale are similar to those on Studewood, they seem too shallow to do much with a business. It would have to be a small bungalow business or be done at one of the bigger intersections where they can go more than one lot deep. Like the one that sits empty at 14th or 11th that just got redone.

I think it would be cool if Yale filled in with townhomes (in empty or run-down spaces) that all came up to the street and had balconies, then it would be a great parade route. Assuming a parade gets started up. Sorry, Louisiana flashbacks.

i would be up for lobbying for the pride parade to move to the heights.

[SaintCyr]

Another question I have is what is going to happen to Yale south of I-10, thats the bit that needs it the most in my opinion. Do you think this might be in preparation for the east bound off ramp that was being circulated with the Heights Village thread?

[SaintCyr]

Stumbled across this and thought it interesting that it shows everything but 11th to 20th as needing to be widened.

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/Developm.../MTFP_Map08.pdf

[Evans-Davis]

The October meeting of the Houston Heights Association Land Use group is scheduled for Monday, October 5, 6:30 p.m. at the fire station, 12th and Yale. City public works representatives will be on hand to provide an update on the Yale Street improvement project. This is an update on what they have been working on since they last visited us last spring, including concerns about the Oak Trees. Let your neighbors who might be interested know.

[SaintCyr]

The October meeting of the Houston Heights Association Land Use group is scheduled for Monday, October 5, 6:30 p.m. at the fire station, 12th and Yale. City public works representatives will be on hand to provide an update on the Yale Street improvement project. This is an update on what they have been working on since they last visited us last spring, including concerns about the Oak Trees. Let your neighbors who might be interested know.

I will be there, and just to add to what was mentioned above... What I have been told is that they are considering several options: capping, cancelling, or moving forward with rehabilitation (losing 10, not the original 200+, mature trees in the mix)... Now, I would encourage anyone and everyone interested to come out and share their views BUT keep in mind if either of the first 2 options happen there is a greater chance of the city coming back sooner rather than later and not being as flexible or transparent on their plans. Hopefully, with our communities' involvement we can work out a deal with the city not only to replace the 10 mature trees we might lose but triple (maybe even more) the number in saplings. Please show support for compromise rather than defiance for any change what so ever. The only reason I mention this is because I personally live on Yale and would like a long term solution both the community and the city is happy with, rather than a temp fix that buys the city time to mount a plan which would cause us to be blindsided later on.

Just my 2cents...

D

[Jesse]

The October meeting of the Houston Heights Association Land Use group is scheduled for Monday, October 5, 6:30 p.m. at the fire station, 12th and Yale. City public works representatives will be on hand to provide an update on the Yale Street improvement project. This is an update on what they have been working on since they last visited us last spring, including concerns about the Oak Trees. Let your neighbors who might be interested know.

BUMP for the meeting tonight!

[Hartmann]

I wasn't able to make the meeting last night, can anyone give us a recap?

What I was hoping for with Yale was something similar to Studewood, two lanes with a mixed usage third, I doubt that's going to happen.

[SaintCyr]

I wasn't able to make the meeting last night, can anyone give us a recap?

What I was hoping for with Yale was something similar to Studewood, two lanes with a mixed usage third, I doubt that's going to happen.

I was able to attend and it was a pretty decent crowd (more than I think were expected) including Councilman Ed Gonzalez and staff, the HHA president, Heights Land Use Committee, the city project managers and a couple of city engineers, along with quite a few residents and business owners. I'll try and post the City's draft proposal up here after I get home. The long story short is...

- Instead of 2 projects they plan on doing it all in one project with construction starting June 2010 and finishing by Jan 2012.

- For the "high traffic" north (610 to 24th) and south (I-10 to 6th) they would widen the lanes to a full 44ft and pave them with concrete. This would be to accomodate the weight and traffic of large trucks. With widening this to 44ft they "believe" only 10 trees would have to be removed. This is mainly because of the damage they would receive durning construction OR the condition they are in currently.

- For the rest inbetween they proposed using asphalt (tearing down to the ground, not recapping) with a 42ft width. They want to use asphault because it does not require as much of a "footprint" as concrete and more trees would be able to be saved because "most" of Yale is already 42ft wide. There was a concern brought up with this because there are some place on Yale that only measure 40ft in width and moving the curbs out that extra foot would cause more trees to be removed. The city had not taken this into consideration and had seemed to assume that the width was at least 42ft all the way down.

- All sewage and other untilities are to be replace with up to code. It was brought up, if there was a way to bury the power lines along yale, could i be done? The city people were going to check on this but it did not seem feasible.

- The project manager was going to file a request with the city to replace the sidewalks with the current 4ft rather than bringing them up to the 5ft code.

- Safety was brought up in regards to street crossings and speed but the issue was "dismissed" because Yale is being considered a main thoroughfare and I quote "residential and thoroughfares don't go well together."

I think I hit the highlights of the meeting...

Having heard what the city has to say there are plans on doing the research into the assumptions made by the city. They are planning to take measurements of each blocks width, count how many trees will actually be affected by the curb moves the city intends, and research having the powerlines buried during construction.

Please post an concerns or questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

D

[tmariar]

Appreciate the detailed report!

[SaintCyr]

Appreciate the detailed report!

Not a problem!

Also, I forgot to mention, and since I havent seen it anywhere, TXDOT is planning on starting construction for the Yale on/off ramps and feeder road in 6 months... I believe that was the time period the city mentioned. Thought that was an interesting point... Get ready for MORE cut through traffic!

[Jesse]

Not a problem!

Also, I forgot to mention, and since I havent seen it anywhere, TXDOT is planning on starting construction for the Yale on/off ramps and feeder road in 6 months... I believe that was the time period the city mentioned. Thought that was an interesting point... Get ready for MORE cut through traffic!

We'll be boxed in! Gridlock on 610 to the North, construction blocking our path at I-10 to the South! Ack! Too scared to go East or West! j/k

[Hartmann]

I was able to attend and it was a pretty decent crowd (more than I think were expected) including Councilman Ed Gonzalez and staff, the HHA president, Heights Land Use Committee, the city project managers and a couple of city engineers, along with quite a few residents and business owners. I'll try and post the City's draft proposal up here after I get home. The long story short is...

- Instead of 2 projects they plan on doing it all in one project with construction starting June 2010 and finishing by Jan 2012.

- For the "high traffic" north (610 to 24th) and south (I-10 to 6th) they would widen the lanes to a full 44ft and pave them with concrete. This would be to accomodate the weight and traffic of large trucks. With widening this to 44ft they "believe" only 10 trees would have to be removed. This is mainly because of the damage they would receive durning construction OR the condition they are in currently.

- For the rest inbetween they proposed using asphalt (tearing down to the ground, not recapping) with a 42ft width. They want to use asphault because it does not require as much of a "footprint" as concrete and more trees would be able to be saved because "most" of Yale is already 42ft wide. There was a concern brought up with this because there are some place on Yale that only measure 40ft in width and moving the curbs out that extra foot would cause more trees to be removed. The city had not taken this into consideration and had seemed to assume that the width was at least 42ft all the way down.

- All sewage and other untilities are to be replace with up to code. It was brought up, if there was a way to bury the power lines along yale, could i be done? The city people were going to check on this but it did not seem feasible.

- The project manager was going to file a request with the city to replace the sidewalks with the current 4ft rather than bringing them up to the 5ft code.

- Safety was brought up in regards to street crossings and speed but the issue was "dismissed" because Yale is being considered a main thoroughfare and I quote "residential and thoroughfares don't go well together."

I think I hit the highlights of the meeting...

Having heard what the city has to say there are plans on doing the research into the assumptions made by the city. They are planning to take measurements of each blocks width, count how many trees will actually be affected by the curb moves the city intends, and research having the powerlines buried during construction.

Please post an concerns or questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

D

Thanks for the recap!

Not really looking forward to having the access ramps being built soon.

[DianeTX]

I was pleasantly surprised with the City of Houston staff who were at the meeting last night. They were able to articulate and discuss the proposed options. It was nice to see Ed Gonzales and his staff attend the meeting. The safety issues brought up in the meeting were not "dismissed". Many of these items fall under different departments and Ed Gonzales' office encouraged everyone to call and relay their concerns on safety (speed, crosswalk markings, crosswalk signals, bike path) so they may be properly addressed by the correct departments. The City of Houston staff did say all current crosswalk locations would be marked/painted up to current code. Please call his office with your concerns! Phone: 832.393.3003

A very good point brought up last night is the area urban planning was based on how the Heights was composed over 10-15 years ago. With the composition being more residential should city urban planning review the need for a main thoroughfare in the area?