kylejack Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Obama's signing an order to close Guantanamo as a detention facility later today, making good on another campaign promise. Should be closed in less than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Obama's signing an order to close Guantanamo as a detention facility later today, making good on another campaign promise. Should be closed in less than a year....and where does he propose to put all the detainees ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ...and where does he propose to put all the detainees ?I heard on the radio yesterday that some would go to Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 ...and where does he propose to put all the detainees ?Still in the works, but the Army has acknowledged that they don't have any evidence of wrongdoing at all against many of them, so those can be released. There was a reward program for turning in terrorists and people in Afghanistan were settling neighborhood disputes by calling their neighbor a terrorist and collecting the reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Obama's signing an order to close Guantanamo as a detention facility later today, making good on another campaign promise. Should be closed in less than a year.This decision may come back and bite us in the ass. Closing Gitmo is like saying there are no terrorist in this world and there are no threats to our country. What goes on there is not good but a necessity since there is seemingly no end to Muslim terrorist in this world. Sorry, but you don't deal with these people by just slapping their hand. If they bring them into the US than I'm afraid an over zealous ACLU lawyer would get hold of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hundreds of these alleged terrorists have already been released with virtually no acts of terror committed. Even the government has no reliable records of new acts of terror, at various times alleging from 5 to 40 new acts. Of the acts alleged, none rise to the level of real terrorists acts. A couple of acts of terror consisted of former detainees writing about their confinement in Gitmo.Given that the number of actual terrorists appears to be remarkably small, I do not see why we cannot bring those actual terrorists within US borders, try them in real courts and confine them in real prisons. We did that very thing with the 1993 WTC terrorists. And, the suggestion that having a terrorist in one of our prisons is scary is outright comical. The US has the largest prison complex in the world. We house over 1 million prisoners. Is anyone really trying to suggest that we can't find a safe place to keep a couple dozen terrorists? Frankly, we already house thousands of prisoners who are far more dangerous than these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 This decision may come back and bite us in the ass. Closing Gitmo is like saying there are no terrorist in this world and there are no threats to our country. What goes on there is not good but a necessity since there is seemingly no end to Muslim terrorist in this world. Sorry, but you don't deal with these people by just slapping their hand. If they bring them into the US than I'm afraid an over zealous ACLU lawyer would get hold of them.If there's sufficient evidence of their wrongdoing, I'm sure they'll get a hefty sentence. True life sentences for the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Our criminals don't seemed to be the least bit intimidated by our prison system. What makes you think terrorist will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Our criminals don't seemed to be the least bit intimidated by our prison system. What makes you think terrorist will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Our criminals don't seemed to be the least bit intimidated by our prison system. What makes you think terrorist will?Intimidation has nothing to do with it. It has to do with locking a dangerous person who has committed crimes up so that he can't continue to do harm to society. He can whistle with a smile on his face every day of his life sentence for all I am concerned. No skin off my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm sorry but I'm one of those people that think hard core criminals jail time should be a nightmare every second they are behind bars and that prison time should be a deterrent. That's not the case in our prisons. But I guess arguing about Guantanamo is like arguing about the death penalty. I'm strongly for it but I know there are many that strongly oppose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm sorry but I'm one of those people that think hard core criminals jail time should be a nightmare every second they are behind bars and that prison time should be a deterrent. That's not the case in our prisons. But I guess arguing about Guantanamo is like arguing about the death penalty. I'm strongly for it but I know there are many that strongly oppose it.Could you give us a few examples of the prisons you have been in that contradict your vision of a good prison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm sorry but I'm one of those people that think hard core criminals jail time should be a fuc*ing nightmare every second they are behind bars and that prison time should be a deterrent. That's not the case in our prisons. But I guess arguing about Guantanamo is like arguing about the death penalty. I'm strongly for it but I know there are many that strongly oppose it.Criminals according to who? Not to the court system that hasn't convicted them. Not to the Army, who says they only have evidence of criminality on 80 of the remaining 240. Before you drop them in a detention facility for the rest of their life, you have to show that they did something bad.And federal prison is no cakewalk. Indeed, federal prison is likely worse than Guantanamo, aside from the "enhanced interrogation techniques". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Could you give us a few examples of the prisons you have been in that contradict your vision of a good prison?If they are so bad then why the repeat offenders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If they are so bad then why the repeat offenders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 If they are so bad then why the repeat offenders?The same reason that some wives keep going back to their husbands who use them as a punching bag...self-destructive tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The same reason that some wives keep going back to their husbands who use them as a punching bag...self-destructive tendencies.Let me get this straight. Your comparing an abused housewife with a habitual criminal? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Let me get this straight. Your comparing an abused housewife with a habitual criminal? LOL.I was pretty clear that I was comparing their self-destructive tendencies, not their criminal records or personalities or whatever else you confused it for. Countries all over the world with many different kinds of prisons (some quite horrible) have plenty of repeat offenders. It doesn't matter how bad it is. There is always a certain class of person that thinks they can get away with it, or just don't care enough to straighten out their life.It doesn't take a genius to know our criminal justice system is not working.What exactly do you think is "working" about Guantanamo, where the Army believes that two-thirds of the 240ish people they're holding didn't commit a crime yet are being held anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It doesn't take a genius to know our criminal justice syatem is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was pretty clear that I was comparing their self-destructive tendencies, not their criminal records or personalities or whatever else you confused it for. Countries all over the world with many different kinds of prisons (some quite horrible) have plenty of repeat offenders. It doesn't matter how bad it is. There is always a certain class of person that thinks they can get away with it, or just don't care enough to straighten out their life.Actually you weren’t clear at all. You were comparing apples and oranges. Yes there will always be repeat offenders but do we really want to make it easy for them?What exactly do you think is "working" about Guantanamo, where the Army believes that two-thirds of the 240ish people they're holding didn't commit a crime yet are being held anyway?I'll be the first to agree the army should do a better job of weeding out the real criminals but this is a war on terrorism and during war there will be innocent casualties. Like it or not terrorist are not going to go away so it's no time to pretend everything is peachy in the world. I for one, have not and will not forget 9/11 and am willing to do anything to prevent another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Actually you weren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I gave my opinion and I'm sorry if my opinion offended you. And yes I have seen the inside of jails and the criminal element that resides in them. But obviously you are the expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hundreds of these alleged terrorists have already been released with virtually no acts of terror committed. Even the government has no reliable records of new acts of terror, at various times alleging from 5 to 40 new acts. Of the acts alleged, none rise to the level of real terrorists acts. A couple of acts of terror consisted of former detainees writing about their confinement in Gitmo.What of the 61 recaptured combatants that were released from Gitmo before, because of their virtual "no acts of terror." Who knows how many more have been released that just haven't been recaptured, or that they got blown to smithereens and we just weren't able to identify them the second time ?If they put any of these Yahoos in the continental U.S. Obama is just asking for trouble.Anyways, here is a good story that came out today.http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090123/pl_politico/17841 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Anyways, here is a good story that came out today.http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090123/pl_politico/17841este es no bueno...5. The orders downplay the possibility that some prisoners might be set free in America. Obama ordered that when Guantanamo closes, any remaining inmates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 este es no bueno...Lockmat, it ain't a "possibility". It IS going to happen. I will bet dollars to donuts that although the Lib. talking heads want Gitmo closed, they don't want those "poor detainees" released into their backyards. Let's see, how many HAIFers , in favor of closing Gitmo, are ready to house one of the these suspected terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This thread has been split off from another Obama topic.Please keep this thread on topic.Also, remember to debate issues, not HAIFers, and not their ability to debate. If you can't keep it on topic, the thread will be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Lockmat, it ain't a "possibility". It IS going to happen. I will bet dollars to donuts that although the Lib. talking heads want Gitmo closed, they don't want those "poor detainees" released into their backyards. Let's see, how many HAIFers , in favor of closing Gitmo, are ready to house one of the these suspected terrorists?I'd house em 6 feet under once I'm done interrogating em with some lead.jk jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Here's what happens when they are released:news story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't know if this has been said because about three posts into this thread I could read no more.My worry, is that the innocent people we've kept in Gitmo, for whatever suspected reason, are now going to walk right up to their neighborhood terrorist recruitment center and sign up to get back at us for what we did to them.I'm in no way saying we should keep them in Gitmo to prevent that, its just something that I know is going to happen. In essence we've made more enemies from neutral parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't know if this has been said because about three posts into this thread I could read no more.My worry, is that the innocent people we've kept in Gitmo, for whatever suspected reason, are now going to walk right up to their neighborhood terrorist recruitment center and sign up to get back at us for what we did to them.I'm in no way saying we should keep them in Gitmo to prevent that, its just something that I know is going to happen. In essence we've made more enemies from neutral parties.Jeebus, that may happen in a couple of cases. I can see that. But, 9999 out of 10000 of the truly innocent, just want to go home. There have been alot of wrongfully accused men and women get out of jail within the past 10 years becuase of DNA evidence. I don't recall seeing any cases of these men and women going out and commiting crimes just to get payback. I hope you are wrong in this case, but like I said, i can see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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