The SOB may finally get executed today

[TheNiche]

The unequal application of the death penalty is not alleged simply because of the number of Blacks on Death Row. In any given crime that meets the definition of Capital Murder, the DA has two choices, to ask a jury for a death sentence, or to proceed as a "non-death" capital murder, where the maximum penalty is life in prison. Numerous studies of all cases where the death penalty COULD have been sought suggest that DAs decide to seek death far more often against Blacks than against Whites.

There are numerous reasons why a DA would not seek the death penalty. The most common is the massive expense incurred by a county that seeks the death penalty against a defendant. Much more investigation, preparation and time must be invested in death cases, swelling the cost considerably. The type of capital murder, and the facts of the case also come into play. Some murders just turn the stomach more than others. Finally, the prior criminal history of the defendant is considered.

Since a racist prosecutor would never admit to being racist, one must look elsewhere to find the tendencies. The simple facts are that prosecutors make the decision...for whatever reason...to seek death against Blacks far more often than against Whites. To claim that there is never consideration of race in deciding to seek the death penalty flies in the face of these facts. It is certainly not the case in every prosecution, and there are certainly DAs who apply the law evenly. But, just as surely as there are dedicated and colorblind DAs, there are also some racist ones who apply the law unevenly. To suggest otherwise is to be intellectually dishonest.

Even colorblind, I'm certain that black people would be disproportionately prosecuted for the death penalty. Its fundamentally an income thing, and that one variable impacts a lot more which don't bode well for racially proportionate convictions and punishment.

But what you're saying is interesting. In a state like Texas, does that mean is it possible for particular counties to effectively abolish the death penalty based upon the whim of the local DA?

[RedScare]

Even colorblind, I'm certain that black people would be disproportionately prosecuted for the death penalty. Its fundamentally an income thing, and that one variable impacts a lot more which don't bode well for racially proportionate convictions and punishment.

But what you're saying is interesting. In a state like Texas, does that mean is it possible for particular counties to effectively abolish the death penalty based upon the whim of the local DA?

Not only can a county effectively abolish the death penalty, with the advent of life without parole scores of counties HAVE effectively abolished the death penalty. And, because juries are imposing death less often, going instead with life without parole, DAs are filing fewer death cases. Basically, they don't want to spend the time and money if they won't have anything to show for it. And it shows in the statistics. I can't find the chart, but since life without parole started, death sentences have declined by about half, to roughly 12 to 15 a year.

[TexasVines]

even with a lower percentage of the population black on white violent crimes far out number white on white violent crimes and the percentage of white on black violent crimes is very very small......and when you look at black on black violent crime the numbers are through the roof......so as a percentage of the population blacks are COMMITTING a massively disproportionate share of the violent crimes in the USA....which would explain why they are so well represented in jails

isn't there some type of racism in that? If they don't want to be in jail they should not do the crimes. Maybe before they cry racism and all their other BS once in jail they should stop and think about how they are representing "their community" BEFORE they DO THE CRIME

if all things were equal on a percentage basis of population then whites would be leading in all those categories.....but they are not

being poor is not an excuse for committing crimes it is a cop out and trying to make it a racial issue is just another way to make excuses instead of addressing a problem

[crunchtastic]

being poor is not an excuse for committing crimes it is a cop out and trying to make it a racial issue is just another way to make excuses instead of addressing a problem

Red and Niche were addressing the issue of the how the law is, in fact, proven to be applied unevenly across races.

How is that making excuses?

[cottonmather0]

The unequal application of the death penalty is not alleged simply because of the number of Blacks on Death Row. In any given crime that meets the definition of Capital Murder, the DA has two choices, to ask a jury for a death sentence, or to proceed as a "non-death" capital murder, where the maximum penalty is life in prison. Numerous studies of all cases where the death penalty COULD have been sought suggest that DAs decide to seek death far more often against Blacks than against Whites.

There are numerous reasons why a DA would not seek the death penalty. The most common is the massive expense incurred by a county that seeks the death penalty against a defendant. Much more investigation, preparation and time must be invested in death cases, swelling the cost considerably. The type of capital murder, and the facts of the case also come into play. Some murders just turn the stomach more than others. Finally, the prior criminal history of the defendant is considered.

Since a racist prosecutor would never admit to being racist, one must look elsewhere to find the tendencies. The simple facts are that prosecutors make the decision...for whatever reason...to seek death against Blacks far more often than against Whites. To claim that there is never consideration of race in deciding to seek the death penalty flies in the face of these facts. It is certainly not the case in every prosecution, and there are certainly DAs who apply the law evenly. But, just as surely as there are dedicated and colorblind DAs, there are also some racist ones who apply the law unevenly. To suggest otherwise is to be intellectually dishonest.

Like I said, Red, it boils down to whether you believe the criminal justice system is "equal opportunity" or not. I do, but plenty of other people do not and have good reasons for not doing so.

Nonetheless, it's very easy to avoid getting convicted and going to jail, regardless of your race - don't commit crimes or hang out with people who do.

[memebag]

Nonetheless, it's very easy to avoid getting convicted and going to jail, regardless of your race - don't commit crimes or hang out with people who do.

And just to be safe, be white.

[Disastro]

And just to be safe, be white.

Oh please.

How many more decades is this going to be used as an excuse?

Maaaan...I wish I was of dark skin color.Then I could blame all my laziness, sloth and misfortune on my skin!

That would be SO convenient!

[memebag]

Oh please.

How many more decades is this going to be used as an excuse?

Maaaan...I wish I was of dark skin color.Then I could blame all my laziness, sloth and misfortune on my skin!

That would be SO convenient!

I wish you were, too.

[RedScare]

Like I said, Red, it boils down to whether you believe the criminal justice system is "equal opportunity" or not. I do, but plenty of other people do not and have good reasons for not doing so.

Nonetheless, it's very easy to avoid getting convicted and going to jail, regardless of your race - don't commit crimes or hang out with people who do.

Like any system, it has its faults. And, to be blunt, the criminal justice system has far too many people in it who think like TexasVines does. I've been in the business 21 years, and I do my part to make it function for everyone. But, I hold no delusions that it is perfect, either for defendants or victims. I have seen the innocent arrested and convicted, and I have seen the guilty walk. What the system needs most is transparency, and a community that demands that justice be done, rather than convictions be had.

"Tough on crime" talk does not help the system. It allows for shortcuts to be taken. Tough talkers should remember that. Those of us who take our jobs seriously do not mind the scrutiny.

Now, I must go enjoy a beer and some Chinese Olympic propaganda. Take care all.

[crunchtastic]

Now, I must go enjoy a beer and some Chinese Olympic propaganda.

Buy Coke. Just buy a lot of Coke, please. And Nike. You could use some new shoes.

Have you got a new flat panel, BTW? You really ought to.

[crunchtastic]

Oh please.How many more decades is this going to be used as an excuse?

Probably until white, middle class suburban men stop staying stupid things that expose their anger, fear and ignorance. No one is suggesting that black and hispanic men don't commit, or shouldn't be punished for, crime.

You've taken a legitimate discussion about the criminal justice system ( informed--incidentally-- by someone who has actually worked both sides of the coin in the criminal courts) and turned it into an AM radio rant for the uneducated masses.

Not very HAIF.

[Disastro]

Probably until white, middle class suburban men stop staying stupid things that expose their anger, fear and ignorance. No one is suggesting that black and hispanic men don't commit, or shouldn't be punished for, crime.

You've taken a legitimate discussion about the criminal justice system ( informed--incidentally-- by someone who has actually worked both sides of the coin in the criminal courts) and turned it into an AM radio rant for the uneducated masses.

Not very HAIF.

Excuse me? It sure seemed to read the way I read it you were saying if you weren't white you didn't get as fair a shake in the court system when it came to execution. If so, THAT is what I am taking exception to.

Uneducated masses? Excuse me, but the very AM radio people you put down are austensibly the most well-read and informed people you would ever hope to meet. They understand the issues VERY well. I would argue it's the "NPR crowd" that is uneducated and out of touch since you only get your information from MoveOn.org, George Soros and people I believe to be Marxist subversives. At best, the sources are the mainstream media that is worthless.

HAIF or not...the point I am making is the truth and you seem to have fallen on hackneyed cliches in a feeble attempt to discuss this issue. Is that the HAIF way?

There is no racism in America...well, with VERY few exceptions. I don't know a single white person who is "racist". On the contrary, I find all this "blame whitey" attitude quite REVERSE racist. What about when people of color make stupid statements? Such as Obama calling his grandmother a "typical white person". Oh really? Define "typical white person" for me. Will I then be allowed to conjure up a cliche for "typical black person" or "typical hispanic person"?

No?

The charge of "racism" is a crutch for those who want to look for an excuse for their own personal failures. One can always find an excuse if they look hard enough. As I said, skin color is a convenient excuse.

Pretty sad if you ask me...(and even if you don't)

You could learn something about reality from "AM radio". The reason why views such as yours aren't successful on AM radio or otherwise is because views such as yours are not mainstream...and actually quite out of touch and sad.

If I read your posts correctly, views such as yours are intended to continue the ongoing perception of "injustice" and division.

Nice try...but I don't buy it. Never have, actually.

[RedScare]

Excuse me? It sure seemed to read the way I read it you were saying if you weren't white you didn't get as fair a shake in the court system when it came to execution. If so, THAT is what I am taking exception to.

Not sure what crunch is saying, but that is EXACTLY what I am saying. Sorry if that bothers you, but your exception does not change reality. FWIW, attractive defendants fare better than ugly ones as well. Wealthy defendants do better than poor ones.

Life isn't fair, and it isn't always due to one's laziness. Your ability to ignore the real world in favor of a fantasy does not mean it does not exist.

[memebag]

The charge of "racism" is a crutch for those who want to look for an excuse for their own personal failures. One can always find an excuse if they look hard enough. As I said, skin color is a convenient excuse.

Whoa. You're saying there is no actual racism - it's all just a crutch. You're saying that everyone is now treated equally. What year did this change? When was the last time someone let race influence their judgement of someone else? Please provide the date.

BTW, I'm a white guy. I'm not looking for an excuse for my own personal failures. I see racism as an excuse for my own personal success. Being white has helped me a great deal.

[TexasVines]

Probably until white, middle class suburban men stop staying stupid things that expose their anger, fear and ignorance. No one is suggesting that black and hispanic men don't commit, or shouldn't be punished for, crime.

You've taken a legitimate discussion about the criminal justice system ( informed--incidentally-- by someone who has actually worked both sides of the coin in the criminal courts) and turned it into an AM radio rant for the uneducated masses.

Not very HAIF.

actually there are plenty of minority activist that suggest this very thing all the time and it gets quite old

[Disastro]

Whoa. You're saying there is no actual racism - it's all just a crutch. You're saying that everyone is now treated equally. What year did this change? When was the last time someone let race influence their judgement of someone else? Please provide the date.

BTW, I'm a white guy. I'm not looking for an excuse for my own personal failures. I see racism as an excuse for my own personal success. Being white has helped me a great deal.

Yeah, I'm saying racism by whites is *pretty much* non-existent these days. I am sure it depends on the generation you are talking about and where you are geographically (I am sure there are still a few backwoods yokels who are racist). I know my generation is pretty much color-blind in the M.L.K. way of thinking.

If you feel you get "perks" because you are white, that's just, well...stupid. I know I've worked hard to get where I am and get what I have -- I don't know about you since you seem to think things were handed to you on a silver platter because of your race. I don't have anything to apologize for and firmly believe the same can be attained by anyone else regardless of race or color if they pursue it.

Case in point: I live in an area with a LOT of asians. Some of them are first or second generation LEGAL migrants who couldn't even speak English when they arrived. Yet, they learned English went on to EXCEL in our education system and did so WITHOUT a handout.

If America is so racist and doesn't provide opportunity how do you explain this?

I think these days people succeed based upon their CREDENTIALS and EDUCATION rather than skin color. That's my experience based on the people I know and have come in contact with (and I'm not 18, so I've see ALOT).

Again, the cry of racism has become the cry of "wolf". It's been used so much that in those RARE instances where it is genuinely racism -- even then, it's hard to believe the assertion due to overuse.

People who use that label are looking to continue the divide and/or make excuses for their personal failures.

I will say this -- I know racism exists on the OTHER side. Because to me, blaming whitey for all of your problems is pretty racist in my opinion. I've seen plenty of people of color with chips on their shoulders and looking for excuses.

I would bet if they released those, they might see greater success.

Anyway, with regard to "racism" in the court system I don't believe in that either. Sentences are based on the evidence and as we all know, sometimes people get off who shouldn't...regardless of race!

[westguy]

Yeah, I'm saying racism by whites is *pretty much* non-existent these days. I am sure it depends on the generation you are talking about and where you are geographically (I am sure there are still a few backwoods yokels who are racist). I know my generation is pretty much color-blind in the M.L.K. way of thinking.

MLK inspired these kids.

Same generation

[Fringe]

I don't believe racism is as prevalent in our criminal justice system as "class" is. Obviously the more affluent can hire better lawyers. Might explain why OJ is still walking the streets.

[TheNiche]

Like any system, it has its faults. And, to be blunt, the criminal justice system has far too many people in it who think like TexasVines does. I've been in the business 21 years, and I do my part to make it function for everyone. But, I hold no delusions that it is perfect, either for defendants or victims. I have seen the innocent arrested and convicted, and I have seen the guilty walk. What the system needs most is transparency, and a community that demands that justice be done, rather than convictions be had.

"Tough on crime" talk does not help the system. It allows for shortcuts to be taken. Tough talkers should remember that. Those of us who take our jobs seriously do not mind the scrutiny.

Now, I must go enjoy a beer and some Chinese Olympic propaganda. Take care all.

"Tough on crime" probably means different things to different people. To me, it means more and better policing as well as adequate capacity in jails. But it also means that sentences for convicted criminals are appropriately harsh, that jailtime shouldn't be a walk in the park. But I don't associate "tough on crime" as meaning that it should affect due process, pretty much in any way (other than that as part of better policing, we have functioning crime labs and such).

[memebag]

I will say this -- I know racism exists on the OTHER side.

So, white people aren't racist, but there are still sides. Your logic baffles me. And you still haven't provided a date. When did racism disappear?

And if racism is a crutch, aren't you also using that crutch by accusing black people of racism? And if you're accusing black people as a race, isn't that racism?

[RedScare]

"Tough on crime" probably means different things to different people. To me, it means more and better policing as well as adequate capacity in jails. But it also means that sentences for convicted criminals are appropriately harsh, that jailtime shouldn't be a walk in the park. But I don't associate "tough on crime" as meaning that it should affect due process, pretty much in any way (other than that as part of better policing, we have functioning crime labs and such).

It does, and your definition is certainly the one most would agree we should strive for, with the possible exception of drug possession, where "appropriately lenient" may be advocated by some. It is such a fine line between supporting "tough on crime" policies and allowing the ends to justify the means. The public should not be made to feel that respect for civil liberties is soft on crime, or anti-police. In the hand-to hand combat that is politics, however, it sometimes sounds that way.

Frankly, the biggest problem police and prosecutors have is the public's unwillingness to be proactive in securing their own communities. Residents who do not meet their neighbors, and do not watch out for their neighbors, make lousy witnesses. We believe the police should be everywhere and solve every crime on their own. Even if we quit complaining about taxes long enough to put more cops on the street, we could never put enough out there to do it all themselves. My half of the block, consisting of about 12 homes, all know each other, and are sufficiently nosy to know if someone belongs in front of that house. I have walked outside just to let a few loiterers know that I am there, just in case they were wondering. It does work, and it doesn't take a lot of time. And, it is cheap.

[TheNiche]

It does, and your definition is certainly the one most would agree we should strive for, with the possible exception of drug possession, where "appropriately lenient" may be advocated by some.

To me, that is really a seperate matter. That has to do with how we define what is a crime and definining what constitutes an appropriate punishment per the standing body of law.

In contrast, by wanting to be 'tough on crime' I'm just talking about law enforcement as it applies to what has already been pre-defined as a crime. I may not like all of the rules, but I do consider it to be in my interest to have all of them effectively and justly enforced.

[Montrose1100]

Some people are so open minded their brain falls out...

[Disastro]

I don't believe racism is as prevalent in our criminal justice system as "class" is. Obviously the more affluent can hire better lawyers. Might explain why OJ is still walking the streets.

THAT I'll buy...not racism though.

[Disastro]

So, white people aren't racist, but there are still sides. Your logic baffles me. And you still haven't provided a date. When did racism disappear?

And if racism is a crutch, aren't you also using that crutch by accusing black people of racism? And if you're accusing black people as a race, isn't that racism?

Not at all. I am describing an anti-white attitude. Believe me, nobody is holding me back. Conversely, as a white person, I don't believe I am responsible for the failures of peoples of color. I don't make excuses of racism but I do know there are those who "don't like" white people and what I am saying those of us on the other side who might have a reverse tendency are in decline or, rather near non-existent.

The crutch I refer to is when those of color complain they can't accomplish this or that because of "racism". The card is over-used to describe a wide range of perceived "injustices".

There is no "date" to refer to. Just as there is no beginning or end to the perceptions of those of color. Things aren't always so cut and dried. The general prevalence and ACCEPTANCE of people of color who are in this color LEGALLY has evolved (and rightfully so, I might add!) over a period of time as people get to know one another and realize that there truly is no difference aside from the obvious (and irrelevant) difference in skin color.

I speak from my own life experiences I don't need to reference any specific pin-point dates on a timeline. I know that by and large this evolution has occurred. There will always be stupid people who can't accept differences in others. That will never change.

However, as I said, I believe this type of attitude is becoming extinct.

People CAN disagree with a person of color and still NOT be racists. People of color CAN be prosecuted and sentenced WITHOUT it having to do with race but merely the CRIME COMMITTED. To say otherwise is a blatant lie and a perpetuation of division and excuses.

Personally, if a person of color or a "whitey" committed a crime against my family -- color would make no difference. I would still want justice to be served and I would demand the punishment to fit the crime.

I don't know what else to say on this topic. I really have nothing else to say on this topic.

[RedScare]

THAT I'll buy...not racism though.

I'll trust my eyes over your opinions. Through decades of hard work by many in the system, much of the legacy of racism has been eliminated. However, it still exists, in spite of all efforts to eliminate it, and in spite of some people's protestations to the contrary. This year's election campaign shows clearly that racism is far from extinct. Sure, maybe the overt use of the word, 'n*gg*r' has subsided, due to rising community standards that no longer tolerate its use, but racism is a mindset, not a word. And, much of the criminal justice system operates while you sleep, or behind locked doors. It is here, where the decisions are made on who to prosecute, and for what crimes, that today's subtle racism can operate without publicity. If you don't have access behind those doors, your cries that racism is extinct ring hollow.

As I stated before, most offices are run professionally, with a colorblind set of policies. But, these offices are run by humans. It is not perfect. And therefore, more work is left to do.

[Fringe]

Unfortunately racism will probably never be eliminated. The main difference today is, in our politically correct system, the race card is played by both sides. You can't blame it just on whites any more. OJ used it to his advantage. Q-X tried to make the whole Joe Horn thing into something racial.

[memebag]

Not at all. I am describing an anti-white attitude. Believe me, nobody is holding me back. Conversely, as a white person, I don't believe I am responsible for the failures of peoples of color. I don't make excuses of racism but I do know there are those who "don't like" white people and what I am saying those of us on the other side who might have a reverse tendency are in decline or, rather near non-existent.

The crutch I refer to is when those of color complain they can't accomplish this or that because of "racism". The card is over-used to describe a wide range of perceived "injustices".

There is no "date" to refer to. Just as there is no beginning or end to the perceptions of those of color. Things aren't always so cut and dried. The general prevalence and ACCEPTANCE of people of color who are in this color LEGALLY has evolved (and rightfully so, I might add!) over a period of time as people get to know one another and realize that there truly is no difference aside from the obvious (and irrelevant) difference in skin color.

I speak from my own life experiences I don't need to reference any specific pin-point dates on a timeline. I know that by and large this evolution has occurred. There will always be stupid people who can't accept differences in others. That will never change.

However, as I said, I believe this type of attitude is becoming extinct.

People CAN disagree with a person of color and still NOT be racists. People of color CAN be prosecuted and sentenced WITHOUT it having to do with race but merely the CRIME COMMITTED. To say otherwise is a blatant lie and a perpetuation of division and excuses.

Personally, if a person of color or a "whitey" committed a crime against my family -- color would make no difference. I would still want justice to be served and I would demand the punishment to fit the crime.

I don't know what else to say on this topic. I really have nothing else to say on this topic.

Well, you've said plenty. It sounds like you're saying racism hasn't been entirely removed from our culture, in which case accusations of racism would be true some of the time and not always a "crutch".

What criteria do you use to distinguish between actual racism and false accusations?

[Rammer]

The worst part of this story is that Peter Cantu, the ringleader, is STILL on death row.

He should have been executed FIRST! Remember when he tried to kick the camerman when he was first arrested? How is he still alive???? Some of those punks would probably have not done what they did if it weren't for Peter Cantu.