McMansions in the suburbs make less sense with high energy prices

[CDeb]

But I do think you are on the losing end of it.

I'm quite happy with my life. How am I losing?

Your entire body of posts in this thread is full of nothing but snobby generalizitions about suburban life based on what you read and what you see on TV, not based on any actual experience. If I were attempting to parody elitist urbanista attitudes, I couldn't have done a better job than your posts.

And the best part of it is that you attach a certain moral superiority to yourself because of where you live, conveniently ignoring that you got a sweetheart of a deal that just isn't available in 2008 to the very people you are chastising.

[cla]

Exceptions exist, but even still, I have an grocery store I can walk to across the street and I do mean walk. Not walk past 30 homes and a few blocks to wiggle out of the single entrance and then walk along a brick fence for a few more blocks along treeless sidewalks that no one really uses except for morning power walkers.

I live in a 2500 sq ft home I bought for just over $100,000. I have (4) 24 Hour Fitnesses within a 1/2 mile radius.

You can beat that.

Some master planned hoods, especially if you are tucked in a house way in the back, you have to drive over a mile before you finally get out of its one or two entrances. That is just silly.

Not everyone wants to be able to walk to everything.

[Gary]

That's great. I'm sorry, my tone probably came across differently than I meant it. I guess what I meant is that I, personally, wouldn't go into a home purchase in the Houston suburbs expecting appreciation. I think people who bank on appreciating in that market are making a mistake. But if the home does appreciate in value, that's great, and it's a bonus. I say this (and my above comments) as an inner-looper with a mind towards moving to the suburbs, with my two children, who will most certainly play in their yard, whatever size it is.

No problem. Sometimes it's hard to get the personality of the comment over the net.

I was fortunate enough to buy a home in my neighborhood before they started going up. God knows I wouldn't buy one now as everything seems to have peaked out here.

[Pumapayam]

don't you live in a cookie cutter townhome by the galleria?

Nope, I reinvested in my existing neighborhood and bought an old 1970's looking stucco/wood disaster that has been my beloved money pit for the past 5 years. I was only 23 when I luckily found it. It has a front door access to the main street and a rear garage with an alley for the trash can. They way a townhome should be built, not those 3 and 4 story cookie cutter homes you are refering too with the front door and garage together sharing a single driveway with no street side parking.

It was pretty ahead of it's time as far as styling goes.

Early 2003.

It looks better now than it once did.

Early 2008.

[Gary]

Maybe you like it, and I think everyone is convince they like it, but really living in the far out suburbs can be depressing (see suburban blues and teens), financially expensive in the long term (do I need to explain this), and kinda boring (yes exceptions exist, spare me the details of fun you have at the local Big Lots).

Puma, I respect your viewpoints most of the time, but your really in left field right now. To start assuming that everyone living in the burbs has convinced themselves to like the area they live in, and that otherwise they would be depressed, is simply outlandish.

Edit: brilliant spelling, and grammer.

[cla]

Don't take it as a personal attack, I am sure your kids love their home in the middle of nowhere, but I am generalizing something that is covered in the news and on the internet, heck that is why this thread topic exists. There will always be two side to every debate. But I do think you are on the losing end of it.

People are finally learning their lessons about buying these homes, a bit late, but they now know.

Maybe your family is content with that lifestyle, but there are a handful of others that wished they made a smarter choice.

Everyone has a reason why they live where they do - just because it is not YOUR choice, doesn't mean it's bad.

[musicman]

It was pretty ahead of it's time as far as styling goes.

[crunchtastic]

Let's try to steer this thread away from the city v. exurb debates - I'm sure there's plenty of that going on in some other thread.

Yes! The article talks about energy prices and mcmansions in the burbs, but I'm more interested in population shifts, gentrification, widepsread reverse white-flight, whatever it's called, with more people coing back to the urban core (or cores, in the case of Houston). Keeping in mind what our population numbers are supposed to look like a generation down the line, and consider how many of those will be low income, immigrants, etc. How does that change development?

Maybe it's off topic, but with each crappy aparmtent complex razed for high dollar infill, I see lack of affordable housing as the next large scale challenge in Texas, whereas up to now it hasn't been an issue.

[westguy76]

Huh?!?

I've spent a good bit of time exploring the west side of Pearland and I have yet to see any indication of slumminess. I must be among the blind you cite. Can you back that up with a "for example"?

I didn't really mean all areas in West Pearland, nor did I want to call you blind, forgive me.

There are areas in Silverlake (formerly Southwyck) that are in decline. I am glad that you do not see the area as an investment area as far as real estate.

There are also some nice communities going into the area. What I meant to highlight about the west side of Pearland is that there is a large demographic shift going on there that will in the future and is currently affecting the real estate, in my opinion.

[Gary]

Everyone has a reason why they live where they do - just because it is not YOUR choice, doesn't mean it's bad.

[Pumapayam]

And the best part of it is that you attach a certain moral superiority to yourself because of where you live, conveniently ignoring that you got a sweetheart of a deal that just isn't available in 2008 to the very people you are chastising.

You are 100% right, I was fortunate to find something cheap.

I too could have been in your shoes and lived in the outer suburbs and honestly would have hated it regardless of the situation.

I think it boils down to if you like living in the outer suburbs or not, you love it, and I don't. I won't convince you to change that, but I can tell you I would never appreciate it the way you do.

But you are on the losing end, not becuase you like it and I don't, but because the negatives are starting to out weight the positive aspects, and to stay on topic:

You are going to see a huge increase in your monthly bill between gas and electricty because of it.

McMansion style homes have higher ceilings are larger in average square footage than those older pre 1980's homes that are the majority of the established closer in town (not including the newer 3-4 story skinny homes).

I will still be paying more for my gas like you, but I am 9-12 miless from work depending on the route I take.

Those in the outer suburbs are driving 22-30 miles if they have to come in town, maybe less if they work in the Energy Corridor. That is a big different time and money wise that I am now glad I never have to deal with.

[HeightsGuy]

Cue the Inner Loopers turning up their noses at the suburbanites....

No, not going to do that. However, as an inner-looper, it's my responsibility to help make my area a better place to live, with better schools, better parks and better transportation. I don't think it is selfish of me to want more families to move back to Houston and put their kids into HISD. I also don't think it's selfish to think we have spent far too much building roads to nowhere so people can breeze in and out of Houston without putting any tax money into its coffers. A healthy dose of $5 gas is just the kick we need to realize that Houston's exurbs and their $75 per square foot housing is a highly-subsidized house of cards.

[Pumapayam]

Humor me, I would love to see a photo of your home, or at least an example closely remsembling your home before you call mine cookie cutter.

My townhome is not a McMansion townhome that is all the rage in Rice Military or Uptown. It was built with personality and I have not seen anything like it in Houston. What "new" townhome that is cookie cutter has a rear garage and a front facing door?

And even if you still think it is, I could not care less. I am glad I am reinvesting into a depressed area and I did not fall prey to a cheaply built home on former farmland in the middle of nowhere with romanticized neighborhood name that have yards signs advertising "starting from the 130's."

[Gary]

Humor me, I would love to see a photo of your home, or at least an example closely remsembling your home before you call mine cookie cutter.

My townhome is not a McMansion townhome that is all the rage in Rice Military or Uptown. It was built with personality and I have not seen anything like it in Houston. What "new" townhome that is cookie cutter has a rear garage and a front facing door?

And even if you still think it is, I could not care less. I am glad I am reinvesting into a depressed area and I did not fall prey to a cheaply built home on former farmland in the middle of nowhere with romanticized neighborhood name that have yards signs advertising "starting from the 130's."

Puma, are you blowing me off?

[CDeb]

You are going to see a huge increase in your monthly bill between gas and electricty because of it.

McMansion style homes have higher ceilings are larger in average square footage than those older pre 1980's homes that are the majority of the established closer in town (not including the newer 3-4 story skinny homes).

I will still be paying more for my gas like you, but I am 9-12 miless from work depending on the route I take.

You drive 9-12 miles? I drive 24. And 21 of it is on freeway, where, because of my flextime work arrangements, I can travel at max efficiency because I sit in very little congestion. I am routinely pulling 31-33 mpg (city and highway combined) with my EPA rated 26 mpg (highway only) sedan. Unless you're driving a Prius, you probably aren't getting that kind of gas mileage on city streets (if you are, bravo). So your fuel savings isn't as much as you think.

Guess what else? My 2200 sqft "McMansion" is smaller than your 2500 sqft "model of efficiency." And unless you've done some major upgrades, your 20-plus year old pad isn't nearly as energy efficient in terms of appliances and insulation.

Again, maybe you shouldn't generalize so much.

[musicman]

It was built with personality and I have not seen anything like it in Houston.

try looking next door. your neighbor's looks remarkably similar. cookie cutter has nothing to do with being new, where the garage is located and where the front door is located. i'm not sure i'd call 70's contemporary unique. they are all over that area of the galleria.

[MidtownCoog]

No, not going to do that. However, as an inner-looper, it's my responsibility to help make my area a better place to live, with better schools, better parks and better transportation. I don't think it is selfish of me to want more families to move back to Houston and put their kids into HISD. I also don't think it's selfish to think we have spent far too much building roads to nowhere so people can breeze in and out of Houston without putting any tax money into its coffers. A healthy dose of $5 gas is just the kick we need to realize that Houston's exurbs and their $75 per square foot housing is a highly-subsidized house of cards.

It's fine that you want revenge, but you offer no solution.

Houston needs the burbs and the burbs need Houston.

[CDeb]

Houston needs the burbs and the burbs need Houston.

My thoughts exactly.

The suburbs wouldn't exist without Houston.

Houston wouldn't be nearly the city is today without its suburbs.

[Pumapayam]

You drive 9-12 miles? I drive 24. And 21 of it is on freeway, where, because of my flextime work arrangements, I can travel at max efficiency because I sit in very little congestion. I am routinely pulling 31-33 mpg (city and highway combined) with my EPA rated 26 mpg (highway only) sedan. Unless you're driving a Prius, you probably aren't getting that kind of gas mileage on city streets (if you are, bravo). So your fuel savings isn't as much as you think.

It's about 12 miles if I take only the freeway, or 9 miles if I take Chimney Rock if you were curious; but you are a rare case when it relates to the article. The article addresses (generalized) the majority that have a huge drive. This could relate to many of the people coming from the far west I-10 and 290 between the hours of 6:30 and 8:00 into downtown.

Guess what else? My 2200 sqft "McMansion" is smaller than your 2500 sqft "model of efficiency." And unless you've done some major upgrades, your 20-plus year old pad isn't nearly as energy efficient in terms of appliances and insulation.

Again, maybe you shouldn't generalize so much.

Well, I did replace all of my major appliance in 2004 with front load washer and full Energy Star kitchen appliance set, installed a pair of 14 SEER A/C units 2005 and a roofin 2006.

Again, it was a dump of a house, still is in some areas, but I am thinking ahead and making the best of existing homes and reinvesting in Houston, and not buying a cheaply made home on former farmland in the middle of nowhere.

[HeightsGuy]

It's fine that you want revenge, but you offer no solution.

Houston needs the burbs and the burbs need Houston.

Touche. In the same spirit, can you actually prove that Houston needs the burbs?

[westguy76]

It's about 12 miles if I take only the freeway, or 9 miles if I take Chimney Rock if you were curious; but you are a rare case when it relates to the article. The article addresses (generalized) the majority that have a huge drive. This could relate to many of the people coming from the far west I-10 and 290 between the hours of 6:30 and 8:00 into downtown.

Well, I did replace all of my major appliance in 2004 with front load washer and full Energy Star kitchen appliance set, installed a pair of 14 SEER A/C units 2005 and a roofin 2006.

Again, it was a dump of a house, still is in some areas, but I am thinking ahead and making the best of existing homes and reinvesting in Houston, and not buying a cheaply made home on former farmland in the middle of nowhere.

I've been to the middle of nowhere, friend, and it is nowhere near here.

[HeightsGuy]

My thoughts exactly.

The suburbs wouldn't exist without Houston.

Houston wouldn't be nearly the city is today without its suburbs.

If you didn't notice, I was talking about the exurbs, not the suburbs. I have no problem with Sugarland and The Woodlands.....

[CDeb]

and not buying a cheaply made home on former farmland in the middle of nowhere.

Ummmm....Uptown IS former farmland.

[Gary]

try looking next door. your neighbor's looks remarkably similar. cookie cutter has nothing to do with being new, where the garage is located and where the front door is located. i'm not sure i'd call 70's contemporary unique. they are all over that area of the galleria.

Not only are they in the Galleria but in Spring Branch, and God forbid, Katy.

[CDeb]

If you didn't notice, I was talking about the exurbs, not the suburbs. I have no problem with Sugarland and The Woodlands.....

So, would you consider Cypress an exurb? Since I work in northern Uptown, my commute is MUCH shorter than it would be from The Woodlands and only slightly longer than it would be from most of Sugarland.

[BryanS]

No pictures of UrbanLofts allowed!

Pretty much everything in this city, in terms of housing, if you look at the era a home was built... is cookie cutter. Idylwood? Cookie cutter (for the 1940's). Old Bellaire (cookie cutter for the 1950's). Midtown, today... cookie cutter for the 1990's.

Post #64... I would say 1970's cookie cutter, updated to 2000's cookie cutter, townhome style.

And there is nothing wrong living in cookie cutter housing. That's just the way it is, inner loop or outer loop.

[Gary]

Puma, are you blowing me off?

I guess so...

[Pumapayam]

The suburbs wouldn't exist without Houston.

Suburbs only existing becuase of 2 things.

1. Homeowners neglecting older existing homes in Houston by not maintaining, reinvesting, and updating them. Greedy developers tearing down older homes after they are beyond repair and building 4 larger skinny homes no one but the rich can afford.
   
2. Greedy developers building cheaply made McMansions on former farmland enticing families to move away from the city center with pretty fountain entrances, empty promises about traffic conditions and lack of ammenties, and use romanticized neighborhood naming systems to make it seem like really live in a great community.
   

then enter Walmart and the end is near. . .

[HeightsGuy]

So, would you consider Cypress an exurb? Since I work in northern Uptown, my commute is MUCH shorter than it would be from The Woodlands and only slightly longer than it would be from most of Sugarland.

From Wiki, exurb and bedroom community are interchangeable:

As a general rule, suburbs are developed in areas adjacent to main employment centres, such as a town or a city, but may or may not have many jobs locally, whereas bedroom communities have few local businesses and most residents who have jobs commute to employment centers some distance away. Commuter towns may be in rural or semi-rural areas, with a ring of green space separating them from the larger city or town. Where urban sprawl and conurbation have erased clear lines among towns and cities in large metropolitan areas, this is not the case.

I would consider exurbs as directions including "take a left on 99 and go 15 miles", or anything ending with "Magnolia" which to me is the very definition of an "exurb".

[sevfiv]

No pictures of UrbanLofts allowed!

Pretty much everything in this city, in terms of housing, if you look at the era a home was built... is cookie cutter. Idylwood? Cookie cutter (for the 1940's). Old Bellaire (cookie cutter for the 1950's). Midtown, today... cookie cutter for the 1990's.

Post #64... I would say 1970's cookie cutter, updated to 2000's cookie cutter, townhome style.

And there is nothing wrong living in cookie cutter housing. That's just the way it is, inner loop or outer loop.

This is true. The vast stretches of gridded tract homes in older aerial photographs of Bellaire, Tanglewood, Sharpstown and other farmland-turned-suburbs are quite a thing to look at - of course fifty years later there is infill, trees have matured and so on. I have no doubt that these bleak looking exurban communities will fill in the same (and who knows what we'll think about the architecture/home quality in fifty years).

The point is, a lot of these places are just far away from what I would consider Houston proper, therefore forcing those that come to Houston proper (for whatever reason) to expend more resources (time, gas) to get there.