editor Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 There's an interesting article in the New York Times today about people who built giant homes out on the prairie having to re-think their lifestyles now that energy prices are so high.The text isn't specific to Houston, but the story can be re-played in exurbs around the country and across Texas.“Living closer in, in a smaller space, where you don’t have that commute,” he said. “It’s definitely something we talk about. Before it was ‘we spend too much time driving.’ Now, it’s ‘we spend too much time and money driving.’ ”Across the nation, the realization is taking hold that rising energy prices are less a momentary blip than a change with lasting consequences. The shift to costlier fuel is threatening to slow the decades-old migration away from cities, while exacerbating the housing downturn by diminishing the appeal of larger homes set far from urban jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Cue the Inner Loopers turning up their noses at the suburbanites.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieDidIt Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Cue the Inner Loopers turning up their noses at the suburbanites....You don't have to be an inner looper to understand that these days it makes more sense to live close to work. Hell we live outside the Beltway even.We now fill up the car once A MONTH, vs. once every three-four days. Our summer energy bill went from 550 for a 4100 sq foot brand new house with 22 foot ceiling and no mature trees around it, to 425 for about the same size house, built in the 60's that isn't hermetically sealed, but with only 8 foot ceilings and tons of enormous oak trees to shade it. We turn off the AC and the hottest it gets in here is 76. I was shocked, I honestly thought our power bills in this old house wouth be at least 30 % higher.While the new designs of open concept living are appealing, the cooling issues for Houston make it impractical. (Not to mention how loud they are)The upstairs gameroom in our Woodlands house was impossible to get below 76 in the summer even though the system was top of the line and exactly what the house required. Because it was open to the downstairs it was always running. Our current house, the upstairs AC doesn't even run during the day, and when we turn it on for the evening it's down to 70 within an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Interesting article. While it may be a lifestyle shift for the people in the exurbs, the ecomonics are more delicate in the urban core. Developers have provided lots of infill for the Falcon Point homeowner who wants to ditch the spread and move into a a half million dollar townhome in town, but it begs the question, where is the planning for the low and middle income urban? They can't all be forced out into the new slums, and they sure as hell can't afford the new urbanism. With the exception of Canal Street, I haven't seen any development that looks to this market. Is there more out there? I'd love to hear of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You don't have to be an inner looper to understand that these days it makes more sense to live close to work....for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 LOL this has nothing to do with energy. this is an urbanista article.i can introduce you to someone who moved from the burbs to inner loop to a condo 1/2 the size of the house and is paying more in bills. there are sooo many variables not even mentioned in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The text isn't specific to Houston, but the story can be re-played in exurbs around the country and across Texas.Construction starts on homes in the highest price points are up throughout the Houston region but have slowed down somewhat in the inner city, according to MetroStudy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 but it begs the question, where is the planning for the low and middle income urban? They can't all be forced out into the new slums, and they sure as hell can't afford the new urbanism. With the exception of Canal Street, I haven't seen any development that looks to this market. Is there more out there? I'd love to hear of it.It's the same question I've been asking on here since I've been a HAIFy. The answers are buried somewhere in this message board. A refresher would be nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbaker Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Interesting article. While it may be a lifestyle shift for the people in the exurbs, the ecomonics are more delicate in the urban core. Developers have provided lots of infill for the Falcon Point homeowner who wants to ditch the spread and move into a a half million dollar townhome in town, but it begs the question, where is the planning for the low and middle income urban? They can't all be forced out into the new slums, and they sure as hell can't afford the new urbanism. With the exception of Canal Street, I haven't seen any development that looks to this market. Is there more out there? I'd love to hear of it.I think the short answer is that land prices in the innerloop are too high to allow for new low and middle income urban developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh hell. What else is a "urban land use expert" supposed to say. Talk about a nerd with an agenda. As if by decree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Get ready Katy, FairField, Cypress, Pearland, Friendswood, this is you!Sugar Land and the Woodland might be immune to this.Care to explain why you have handpicked the Woodlands and Sugar Land to be above the others?IMO some of these areas you have mentioned are too large and diverese to generalize.For instance, alot of once affluent, "nice" areas in West Pearland are slummy or becoming that way and the people moving there are ignoring the signs in front of them. Also Katy (as it is often considered) is not immune in some areas. But I see no reason to believe South Katy will slum up, With Seven Meadows, Cinco Ranch, Grand Lakes, Kelliwood, etc.You have too realize that in a good bit of all these communities people are not commuting to an urban core.And also not everyone in the burbs or the exburbs lives in a mcmansion, even in a nice nieghborhood. I, for instance live in a modest 1 story home of around 2,200 SF in cinco ranch(south Katy). It is not costing me an arm and a leg to cool my house, just an arm. damn de-regulation!Way to much generalizations and assumptions are made everytime this discussion arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Get ready Katy, FairField, Cypress, Pearland, Friendswood, this is you!Sugar Land and the Woodland might be immune to this.Parts of Katy, Spring, Clear Lake City, and Richmond/Rosenberg, yes. The higher-end ones you mention have a ways to go.Actually, if you look at how Clear Lake City is going, which was a really nice area in its day, that's a pretty decent indication of how much of Cypress is going to evolve. It'll be a slower decay than, say, Spring or North Katy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Care to explain why you have handpicked the Woodlands and Sugar Land to be above the others?Sugar Land, and more so the Woodlands have REAL master planned neighborhoods and actually is attempting to establish a funtioning CBD, not just a strip malls and Walmarts, but something that is attractive and sustainable for a real live, work, play environment.I can't think of a real towncenter that is not a strip mall in Katy, Pearland, or anywhere else. The rest are just residential neighborhoods with Walmart and HEB strip centers mixed in them, nothing else. Cheaply built homes too that only look good for about 5 years.As mentioned above, Maybe the Clear Lake area can be included, but I don't see it yet.I am just glad I bought my depressed run-down home on the cheap in Uptown back in 2003 instead of opting to live in the burbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 It'll be a slower decay than, say, Spring or North Katy.North Katy is a trap! They really suckered people into getting homes there. It should have stayed as farm land. Good luck ever seeing mass transit there or even decent freeway access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 North Katy is a trap! They really suckered people into getting homes there. It should have stayed as farm land. Good luck ever seeing mass transit there or even decent freeway access.Do you even know where I'm talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 What roads border what you define as "North Katy?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Also Katy (as it is often considered) is not immune in some areas. But I see no reason to believe South Katy will slum up, With Seven Meadows, Cinco Ranch, Grand Lakes, Kelliwood, etc.South Katy just has really nice neighborhoods, with houses in the millions dollar. Yes it is nice, but would I want to ever live there, nope. Too far. Sure the school are nice and the area is safe. But after you raise your kids, what's the point of living there anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Sugar Land, and more so the Woodlands have REAL master planned neighborhoods and actually is attempting to establish a funtioning CBD, not just a strip malls and Walmarts, but something that is attractive and sustainable for a real live, work, play environment.I can't think of a real towncenter that is not a strip mall in Katy, Pearland, or anywhere else. The rest are just residential neighborhoods with Walmart and HEB strip centers mixed in them, nothing else. Cheaply built homes too that only look good for about 5 years.As mentioned above, Maybe the Clear Lake area can be included, but I don't see it yet.I am just glad I bought my depressed run-down home on the cheap in Uptown back in 2003 instead of opting to live in the burbs.This is the same tired rhetoric, drivel, that doesn't deserve a response. You can do better than generalizations. Just Try it.If you really don't realize that the energy corrdior and the burgeoning medical industry on the west side is not equivilent to a CBD than you should.And since I am responding, I'll go on, What is a "real" master planned community. And how does Cinco Ranch not typify one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 What roads border what you define as "North Katy?"North of I-10 and maybe 99 on the west and Peek Rd on the east.Can't figure out the north end, maybe just shy of 290.This is the same tired rhetoric, drivel, that doesn't deserve a response. You can do better than generalizations. Just Try it.If you really don't realize that the energy corrdior and the burgeoning medical industry on the west side is not equivilent to a CBD than you should.All those homes were built on cheap land. Developers saw an opportunity and churned out cookie cutter homes in cul-de-sac infested hoods.It's practically a mini road trip to get out of your neighborhood to begin with just to get basic errands done like grocery shopping or going to the gym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 It's practically a mini road trip to get out of your neighborhood to begin with just to get basic errands done like grocery shopping or going to the gym.That's probably the number one thing I hate about living in the 'burbs. There's less than a handful of major roads to get around on and there's hardly any useful retail in between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 North of I-10 and maybe 99 on the west and Peek Rd on the east.Can't figure out the north end, maybe just shy of 290.Generally speaking, look at the school district. What's north of I-10 is North Katy. And as for Spring, if you think it doesn't have good freeway access, you've never been there (or perhaps didn't realize it when you were).As for S. Katy, that it doesn't work for you doesn't mean that it doesn't work for other people. If you've got kids and you work in west Houston, S. Katy makes for a pretty good option. With the completion of the Katy Freeway work not far off, it actually makes for a really really good option, even for inner city workers with kids. It'll only turn as a result of aging homes and infrastructure, as well as by ghetto apartments, the same way as Clear Lake City is turning now. But it won't be because there isn't demand for nice middle-class suburban areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieDidIt Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Funny that you think that Katy would suffer more than the Woodlands considering their geographical locations. Katy is much closer to an economic core than the Woodlands. And despite how some people want the Woodlands to appear, it's also primarily middle class.And I think Katy has built a Town Center type thing recently. La Centerra or something. North of I-10 hasn't ever been considered totally desireable along the west side, so the fact that it's the first to have foreclosure problems is no surprise.I dunno, if there is going to be any slide into the slums in any burb, I think they will all suffer about the same amount.Someone told me that Sugarland is having problems with multiple family moving into single family dwelling in some the the 400,000+ housing. No way to varify that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 North of I-10 and maybe 99 on the west and Peek Rd on the east.Can't figure out the north end, maybe just shy of 290.All those homes were built on cheap land. Developers saw an opportunity and churned out cookie cutter homes in cul-de-sac infested hoods.It's practically a mini road trip to get out of your neighborhood to begin with just to get basic errands done like grocery shopping or going to the gym.I live very near the corner of Westheimer Parkway and Mason in the heart of Cinco Ranch.At this Intersection is a Krogers Grocery store. Within 2 to 3 miles there is a YMCA and a Lifetime fitnessYour ideas are misconceptions.Not every thing can be generalized as it is in a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 And since I am responding, I'll go on, What is a "real" master planned community. And how does Cinco Ranch not typify one?Definition of a community, in my eyes is what brought me here to HAIF to begin with. The Surburban Nation really shows what is sustainable and what isn't.Cinco Ranch is just homes, maybe with elementary schools within it. But outside the gates beyond the mess of cul-de-sacs, are churches, high schools, and Walmarts. Everything else in Katy requires a trip on the freeway into Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Definition of a community, in my eyes is what brought me here to HAIF to begin with. The Surburban Nation really shows what is sustainable and what isn't.Cinco Ranch is just homes, maybe with elementary schools within it. But outside the gates beyond the mess of cul-de-sacs, are churches, high schools, and Walmarts. Everything else in Katy requires a trip on the freeway into Houston.read my previous post for enlightenment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I live very near the corner of Westheimer Parkway and Mason in the heart of Cinco Ranch.At this Intersection is a Krogers Grocery store. Within 2 to 3 miles there is a YMCA and a Lifetime fitnessYour ideas are misconceptions.Not every thing can be generalized as it is in a book.Exceptions exist, but even still, I have an grocery store I can walk to across the street and I do mean walk. Not walk past 30 homes and a few blocks to wiggle out of the single entrance and then walk along a brick fence for a few more blocks along treeless sidewalks that no one really uses except for morning power walkers.I live in a 2500 sq ft home I bought for just over $100,000. I have (4) 24 Hour Fitnesses within a 1/2 mile radius.You can beat that.Some master planned hoods, especially if you are tucked in a house way in the back, you have to drive over a mile before you finally get out of its one or two entrances. That is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Sugar Land, and more so the Woodlands have REAL master planned neighborhoods and actually is attempting to establish a funtioning CBD, not just a strip malls and Walmarts, but something that is attractive and sustainable for a real live, work, play environment.I can't think of a real towncenter that is not a strip mall in Katy, Pearland, or anywhere else. The rest are just residential neighborhoods with Walmart and HEB strip centers mixed in them, nothing else. Cheaply built homes too that only look good for about 5 years. Something bad happened to Puma at a strip mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I live in a 2500 sq ft home I bought for just over $100,000. I have (4) 24 Hour Fitnesses within a 1/2 radius. WHAT? the grocery store and 24 hr fitness aren't IN your building? we just can't sustain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 WHAT? the grocery store and 24 hr fitness aren't IN your building? we just can't sustain that. They may be! He didn't define what radius a 1/2 is??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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