Looking at houses - should I crawl in crawl space?

[richardtb]

I am looking at houses to figure out which one to make a bid on. All the houses that I am considering have a crawl space. My question is should I go down to the crawl space before making the bid or should I just wait to go down until one bid is accepted and I can go see the crawl space with the inspector?

I have never seen a crawl space. So, if the answer is that I should see the crawl space before making the bid, I have two more questions:

1. What is it that I should be looking at/looking for? For instance, if I wanted to see the state of the piers, what would I be looking for?

2. What are the chances of getting bitten by a spider, snake or rat? Are there any things to do to minimize those chances?

Thanks.

Richard

[musicman]

I am looking at houses to figure out which one to make a bid on. All the houses that I am considering have a crawl space. My question is should I go down to the crawl space before making the bid or should I just wait to go down until one bid is accepted and I can go see the crawl space with the inspector?

I have never seen a crawl space. So, if the answer is that I should see the crawl space before making the bid, I have two more questions:

1. What is it that I should be looking at/looking for? For instance, if I wanted to see the state of the piers, what would I be looking for?

2. What are the chances of getting bitten by a spider, snake or rat? Are there any things to do to minimize those chances?

inspect the beams to see whether they are sound or rotten

inspect for termite damage

inspect beams to see whether more piers are needed, leveling needed.

inspect cast iron drains to determine their state.

as for getting bitten, wear long sleeve clothing, etc. obtain a powerful light so that the area you are inspecting will be well lit.

EDIT: also look for standing water. if there is then you'll have to figure out how to stop this from happening.

Edited April 9, 2008 by musicman

[richardtb]

Thank you very much. Very helpful.

inspect the beams to see whether they are sound or rotten

inspect for termite damage

inspect beams to see whether more piers are needed, leveling needed.

inspect cast iron drains to determine their state.

as for getting bitten, wear long sleeve clothing, etc. obtain a powerful light so that the area you are inspecting will be well lit.

EDIT: also look for standing water. if there is then you'll have to figure out how to stop this from happening.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

as for getting bitten, wear long sleeve clothing, etc. obtain a powerful light so that the area you are inspecting will be well lit.

A foundation guy recommended to wear some one-piece coveralls, like long-sleeved Dickies. You'll be crawling on your belly a lot, and if you're wearing separate pants and shirt, you can tend to get a lot of dirt up your shirt and down your pants.

If you plan to go very far under the house, you better not be claustrophobic. I don't have a lot of vertical clearance in my crawl space, so it's a tight squeeze underneath the 4x4 beams...in some places I have to exhale to get under the beams...

There are definitely spider webs under our house, so you might want to use the flashlight to knock those out as you move.

In addition to looking for water under the house, you can check for sewer leaks. Have someone flush the toilet a few times while you're down there to check for leaks/breaks.

As far as the house being out of level, you can pretty easily check that inside by feel and by looking for cracks in the walls, especially around doors. Check to make sure doors close all the way.

Agree 100% on looking for rotted/termite infested wood under the house. It can be fairly easy to fix (with $$$ of course), but much better to know before you buy than after.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Original Timmy Chan's

[Scharpe St Guy]

I am looking at houses to figure out which one to make a bid on. All the houses that I am considering have a crawl space. My question is should I go down to the crawl space before making the bid or should I just wait to go down until one bid is accepted and I can go see the crawl space with the inspector?

I have never seen a crawl space. So, if the answer is that I should see the crawl space before making the bid, I have two more questions:

1. What is it that I should be looking at/looking for? For instance, if I wanted to see the state of the piers, what would I be looking for?

2. What are the chances of getting bitten by a spider, snake or rat? Are there any things to do to minimize those chances?

Thanks.

Richard

Richard,

To answer your questions:

1. Put a bid on the home you like the best at what you consider an acceptable and reasonable offer. You may decide to go in a little lower then work up to the acceptable/reasonable as well.

2. You only crawl the house upon an accepted and signed offer. If you do it prior you are making an investment in the house which will work to the sellers favor since you have invested time/money/clothes/lights/etc....

3. If you get an accepted offer then you can crawl or hire an inspector to crawl for you. If you find faults with the piers/beams/plumbing/etc.... then you can ask for these items to be addressed, money set aside to be fixed post closing, or a reduction in the sales price. If sellers will not agree then you can walk away and receive your option money back as long as you are within the option period.

Check the piers, beams, plumbing (like previous poster said run the water/flush the toilets), look for any termite damage or active termites, standing water, etc....

Our work week house is on pier and beam and we love it, fixing plumbing is a breeze, adding plumbing is easy, fixing the foundation is easy, etc... it's a good foundation for the soil that we have in the Houston area that tends to shift greatly.

What part of town are these homes located?

Thanks and good luck,

Scharpe St Guy

[richardtb]

Thanks a lot for all the responses. I was looking at a house in West U. It turned out that the crawl space was very, very small. So, it would have been pretty hard to get inside but I was able to look at it and seemed ok.

Fortunately, a couple of friends of hours (who are architects) came looking at the house with us. It turns out that the house was originally about 1,800 SF, however a long time ago they had added an additional 1,200 SF. (The seller did not mention this, but after it was pointed out to me, it seemed pretty clear.) That piece of information did not show on HCAD. The new parts were all on in the upstairs. They had converted the attic into living space and added additional portions to the upstairs. Given that the new parts were covered in aluminum siding, our friends opined that the addition may have been done sometime during the 60's or 70's.

The other thing that our engineer friend noticed was that the house had been re-bricked, since the bricks were not the type of bricks in use when the house was built.

I realize that this is not the conversation topic, but I hate starting a second conversation topic in the same day. However, if anyone has any comments on what this should mean to me (the additions, the re-bricking), I am all ears.

Richard,

To answer your questions:

1. Put a bid on the home you like the best at what you consider an acceptable and reasonable offer. You may decide to go in a little lower then work up to the acceptable/reasonable as well.

2. You only crawl the house upon an accepted and signed offer. If you do it prior you are making an investment in the house which will work to the sellers favor since you have invested time/money/clothes/lights/etc....

3. If you get an accepted offer then you can crawl or hire an inspector to crawl for you. If you find faults with the piers/beams/plumbing/etc.... then you can ask for these items to be addressed, money set aside to be fixed post closing, or a reduction in the sales price. If sellers will not agree then you can walk away and receive your option money back as long as you are within the option period.

Check the piers, beams, plumbing (like previous poster said run the water/flush the toilets), look for any termite damage or active termites, standing water, etc....

Our work week house is on pier and beam and we love it, fixing plumbing is a breeze, adding plumbing is easy, fixing the foundation is easy, etc... it's a good foundation for the soil that we have in the Houston area that tends to shift greatly.

What part of town are these homes located?

Thanks and good luck,

Scharpe St Guy

[musicman]

The other thing that our engineer friend noticed was that the house had been re-bricked, since the bricks were not the type of bricks in use when the house was built.

I realize that this is not the conversation topic, but I hate starting a second conversation topic in the same day. However, if anyone has any comments on what this should mean to me (the additions, the re-bricking), I am all ears.

one thing i would have to investigate is the a/c situation. today was a relatively cool day so the 2nd floor addition was probably ok, in august would the story change?

i don't think the rebricking would be a problem. this is done quite frequently.

[Dan the Man]

The house was probably re-bricked for one of two reasons:

1. The original brick was no longer available when the additions were made, and the owners had the whole house re-bricked for consistency.

2. The house had severe foundation problems at one time, which caused the original brick veneer to develop large cracks or fall off.

If a second story was added, you should check to make sure that adequate structural modifications were made to handle the additional weight. Look for sagging beams under the house. The additional weight of the additions may have caused the house to sink faster than usual. If you were still able to actually crawl under the house, you should be ok. Just make sure none of the beams are in direct contact with the soil.

[richardtb]

The explanation is definitively 2. The additions did not use brick but aluminum siding. Also, there was foundation work done. My wife noticed that the hardwood in the first floor were somewhat slanted. However, the house felt solid, all doors closed very nicely.

Since those changes and repairs were make a while back (at least two owners ago), it looks like pretty complicated things to check whether the weight is handled adequately, and if we end up having a contract on the house it sound like I should I hire an engineer to check things out.

The house was probably re-bricked for one of two reasons:

1. The original brick was no longer available when the additions were made, and the owners had the whole house re-bricked for consistency.

2. The house had severe foundation problems at one time, which caused the original brick veneer to develop large cracks or fall off.

If a second story was added, you should check to make sure that adequate structural modifications were made to handle the additional weight. Look for sagging beams under the house. The additional weight of the additions may have caused the house to sink faster than usual. If you were still able to actually crawl under the house, you should be ok. Just make sure none of the beams are in direct contact with the soil.

[BryanS]

Here's an easy way to do this - even before you make an offer...

If you have a digital camera (e.g. a Cannon digital camera)... put the camera in "panoramic mode" ... make sure the flash is on...

Open up a crawl space vent/door...

Extend your arm as far as you can, in the opening, pointing the camera along the perimeter beam. Take a picture. Move the camera ~45 degrees. Take another picture. Take another picture at 90 degrees, 135 degrees, and then at 180 degrees. Then "stitch" the image together, when you get home.

You will be amazed at what you see (e.g. junk under the house, leaky pipes, bad drainage, standing water, trash, cracked beams, sagging floor, etc - you name it.)

Do this for several crawl space vent/door openings...

It is easy to do, plus you can study the pictures. Put your camera on high resolution mode. Zoom in. You'll see even more.

I've done this on at least three houses I've looked at. Works wonders, every time. Doing it this way, if you see a problem area, you know where you want to crawl to inspect (e.g. during your option period

Edited April 10, 2008 by BryanS

[MidtownCoog]

Don't be cheap. Get a hired gun and stop wasting time with the friends and worrying about bug bites.

Something tells me this "West U" house in on a RR Track.

[Ross]

If the extra square footage isn't in HCAD, there's a good chance the addition was done without a permit - you might want to check on that with the appropriate city department.

[Scott08]

If the extra square footage isn't in HCAD, there's a good chance the addition was done without a permit - you might want to check on that with the appropriate city department.

The OP has already said the addition was done at least two owners ago. Whether or not it was done with a permit is kind of irrelevant now. So is the opinion of your architect buddy too really. On the other hand, make sure you get a decent inspector to check out all the structural issues involved. The current condition of the house is much more important to a potential buyer than how it came to be in that state.

[richardtb]

Thanks for all the opinions.

There were other things about my visit that made me uncomfortable. It is "sell by owner," so the current owner showed us the house. When we asked her about the house, she didn't seem to know anything about anything. Pretty much said that she had just lived here and all the work was done by the previous owner. This seems a bit odd to me since both husband and wives are engineers and this does not seem to match with the personality of the engineers that I have known.

The next day, the owner emailed us the seller's disclosure statement which we had requested. In the form it mentioned that right before the put the house on the market they had a company do a property inspection report and a condition of property survey. Is that a common thing to do?

I have a strong suspicion that the more I will find out about the house (through a professional inspection..), the more potential problems will be uncovered.

The OP has already said the addition was done at least two owners ago. Whether or not it was done with a permit is kind of irrelevant now. So is the opinion of your architect buddy too really. On the other hand, make sure you get a decent inspector to check out all the structural issues involved. The current condition of the house is much more important to a potential buyer than how it came to be in that state.

[jm1fd]

The next day, the owner emailed us the seller's disclosure statement which we had requested. In the form it mentioned that right before the put the house on the market they had a company do a property inspection report and a condition of property survey. Is that a common thing to do?

I wouldn't say that its common, but it is a good idea if you're selling a house. Sellers in the know will have an inspection done beforehand so that so they know what issues will be uncovered during the buyer's inspection, and can either rectify them beforehand or know what sorts of allowances are acceptable for any given repair.

[elphaba]

I am looking at houses to figure out which one to make a bid on. All the houses that I am considering have a crawl space. My question is should I go down to the crawl space before making the bid or should I just wait to go down until one bid is accepted and I can go see the crawl space with the inspector?

I have never seen a crawl space. So, if the answer is that I should see the crawl space before making the bid, I have two more questions:

1. What is it that I should be looking at/looking for? For instance, if I wanted to see the state of the piers, what would I be looking for?

2. What are the chances of getting bitten by a spider, snake or rat? Are there any things to do to minimize those chances?

Thanks.

Richard

From my experience, I think taking a look at the attic is more important. Had I known then what I know now, I would never have bought this place. The attic had wire strewn (sp?) everywhere including burglar alarm wire and air conditioning ducts to the point it was difficult to navigate. The main conclusion I would have drawn (quickly without getting dirty) then had I known what I know now is that the house wasn't very well cared for. Lots of things remodeled very poorly just for it to look good, nothing new but I'm thinking now that the attic is a good place to get an "impression" of the quality of the work that went in.

Also, part of the attic space was reclaimed as a loft/study area. No attention was focused on the need for additional reinforcement in the foundation because of the extra building materials brought in, something that could be a problem especially in older homes where construction "rules" were not decided upon as well as they are now.

Oh yeah, and now that you mention it, the crawl space was filled with trash from the remodeling efforts (I guess). Anyway, when we tried to have termite treatment, they couldn't get to the dirt until we had it cleaned out (which we are in the process of trying to do now.) Miraculously, no termites. Guess those "shields" over the piers work (something to look for in answer to your specific question). Be sure they are there if you buy one of these old houses.

My husband doesn't do work around the house. And I am also very inexperienced. We had the house inspected of course but I'm pretty sure the inspector was on the "dole" with the real estate salesman. We didn't look ourselves. Don't think we are the type of people who should buy these older homes but they do have wonderful "soul". (Don't think we should own a home, period but too late now.)