Stop the Rail Plans!

[Jax]

Perhaps we can relax some of the signalling limitations now that people are finally used to the trains. e.g. let them run through on green again without four-way red, and take out the swing arms. The four-way red and swing arms are the principle thing hurting Wheeler/Fannin.

I agree that the safety precautions seem like too much, especially the 4 way red! The train drivers here are way more cautious here than in places like Toronto or San Francisco), but unfortunately, Houston drivers are also way more stupid (on average).

[VicMan]

i believe there's one on the block where live is. (east side of main between preston and prairie)

the pedestrian level here is nowhere near that of japan. can you say rancid food?

Yeah, I can understand why perishable food would be definately out of the question for any vending machines at light rail stops.

[N Judah]

Yeah, I can understand why perishable food would be definately out of the question for any vending machines at light rail stops.

Perhaps one day we can acquire Japanese "refrigeration" technologies for our vending machines out here in the sticks.

[ricco67]

Possibly, but I don't see it unless it is located inside a large and heavily used transient area. It can only be located this way for several of reasons:

* Because restaurants/stores would go absolutely nuts of competition.

* There has to be a certain turnover for food to be used before the expiration dates makes the food inedible.

* Enough foot traffic is needed as additional security from vandalism and theft.

To match this criteria, they can't be used in the galleria, Village, or Downtown. In downtown, remember you had restaurant owners (above and below ground) were howling in protest about the potential of hotdog carts eating (no pun intended) into their business.

Currently, the only place they can be used is probably in some areas WITHIN the TMC, the TMC and Wheeler transit centers.

[N Judah]

Also, all of the bus systems I've ridden have prohibited eating and drinking on the bus. Vending machines would probably only encourage that kind of behaviour. To that extent even Coke machines would be a bad idea.

[ricco67]

All the more more reason to have them when you get OFF. Plus, you could always grab something and hold onto it until you reach your last stop.

[TheNiche]

All the more more reason to have them when you get OFF. Plus, you could always grab something and hold onto it until you reach your last stop.

You could, but the guy that got on the LRT vehicle who just got into town on a Greyhound bus might not.

There are a lot of people that just don't give a ____.

[ricco67]

You could, but the guy that got on the LRT vehicle who just got into town on a Greyhound bus might not.

There are a lot of people that just don't give a ____.

Well, that would be one less sold?

I'm not talking IPODs or whatever, I'm talking drinks (cokes, coffee), food, and ice cream.

[N Judah]

I could see that happening at transit hubs. For example, I agree that would be alright at an intermodal terminal, or outside of a system's fare-paid zone near the exits.

However, the LRT stops we have now seem too small for a vending machine. It would also be out of place to have a bunch of vending machines basically sitting out in the middle of the street like that. I also think it would be too tempting to buy, say, a canned soft drink (that opens but doesn't close) and then take it on the train and have it spill everywhere. Cups of coffee would be even worse.

Edited April 4, 2008 by N Judah

[TheNiche]

I'm talking drinks (cokes, coffee), food, and ice cream.

I'm talking sticky floors and malodorous seats.

[ricco67]

I'm talking sticky floors and malodorous seats.

People take drinks (albiet rarely from what I've seen) and simply close them up. I've seen people throw away cans of cokes and such when the trains arrive. If you have 10 minutes to kill between trains (or longer if its crowded) then why can't you just drink coffee or drink it on the way to your office on a cold/hot day?

Not every single person that rides metro is a slob.

[TheNiche]

Not every single person that rides metro is a slob.

It only takes a few.

[ricco67]

It only takes a few.

If that's the case, the trains should have been all nasty by now. From the times I have ridden, I've only seen one spilled drink.

[tierwestah]

So in a nutshell what does this all mean? Another delay or a cancellation of the plans all together. I've been reading this thread and no one has quite adressed that issue yet?

[ricco67]

No, originally the OP was complaining about the cost and it has morphed into some really wierd conversations.

[musicman]

If that's the case, the trains should have been all nasty by now. From the times I have ridden, I've only seen one spilled drink.

nastiness isn't always seen. it can be smelled too. some of the cars are rank.

[ricco67]

nastiness isn't always seen. it can be smelled too. some of the cars are rank.

Now THAT I will agree with. But when you have so many people with different hygiene habits and perfumes and junk, plus the doors allowing the beautiful smell (and I notice this more at TMC) of the lovely sewage smell, you just have a veritable cornucopia of smells that would make a bloodhound hold its breath.

[TheNiche]

If that's the case, the trains should have been all nasty by now. From the times I have ridden, I've only seen one spilled drink.

In all of the times that you've ridden, has METRO or any other random property owner had vending machines installed at or near platforms which might encourage people to bring along food or drinks that could be dropped or spilled? No. And that's what we're talking about.

[westguy]

People in Houston just love to throw their garbage on the street. They're not as disciplined here.

[GovernorAggie]

People in Houston just love to throw their garbage on the street. They're not as disciplined here.

Yeah. We Mess with Texas like no other.

[ricco67]

In all of the times that you've ridden, has METRO or any other random property owner had vending machines installed at or near platforms which might encourage people to bring along food or drinks that could be dropped or spilled? No. And that's what we're talking about.

No, but there is a Jack In The Box (yum) across the street and a convenience store(On Richmond) that people seem to hit before they jump back on the rail, though.

[TheNiche]

No, but there is a Jack In The Box (yum) across the street and a convenience store(On Richmond) that people seem to hit before they jump back on the rail, though.

If people are already well-served by these establishments, then why bother with vending machines?

[ricco67]

Because it isn't as convenient at the other locations?

[VicMan]

I wonder if vending machines would be best at the transfer stations where people may wait for certain routes - maybe the Downtown METRO station, Wheeler, and/or TMC Transfer.

[TheNiche]

Because it isn't as convenient at the other locations?

Yes...and what happens when you make something more convenient to people?

Ricco says (paraphrased): People that would've bought food and drink elsewhere start buying it from METRO's vending machines.

Yes...Ricco, but you're missing my point. What happens to the total amount of consumption of food and drink when it is made more convenient?

Ricco says (paraphrased): More people will buy food and drink.

Yes...and what happens when there are more people with food and drink near LRT stations.

Ricco says (paraphrased): More people will eat and drink around LRT stations, but there'll be just that much more trash collected too.

Yes...and some portion of that trash will not be in cans.

Ricco says (paraphrased): No, that's not the way it'd happen.

Yes it will. Face reality. There are slobs out there. Not you. Not the majority of people. But they're out there, they litter, they drop things on themselves (and others), and they don't care. It will be a problem and I don't trust METRO to handle it effectively.

[Ricco goes silent.]

[ricco67]

Yes...and what happens when you make something more convenient to people?

Ricco says (paraphrased): People that would've bought food and drink elsewhere start buying it from METRO's vending machines.

Yes...Ricco, but you're missing my point. What happens to the total amount of consumption of food and drink when it is made more convenient?

Ricco says (paraphrased): More people will buy food and drink.

Yes...and what happens when there are more people with food and drink near LRT stations.

Ricco says (paraphrased): More people will eat and drink around LRT stations, but there'll be just that much more trash collected too.

Yes...and some portion of that trash will not be in cans.

Ricco says (paraphrased): No, that's not the way it'd happen.

Yes it will. Face reality. There are slobs out there. Not you. Not the majority of people. But they're out there, they litter, they drop things on themselves (and others), and they don't care. It will be a problem and I don't trust METRO to handle it effectively.

[Ricco goes silent.]

You don't believe anything can be done right by Metro. As far as you're concerned they probably can't even set the time and predict in what point of the compass the sun will rise in the morning.

While I don't think they're doing the perfect job, it is much better than doing nothing, which is all you seem to be advocating lately.

[TheNiche]

You don't believe anything can be done right by Metro. As far as you're concerned they probably can't even set the time and predict in what point of the compass the sun will rise in the morning.

While I don't think they're doing the perfect job, it is much better than doing nothing, which is all you seem to be advocating lately.

People desperate to attempt 'something', whether well thought out or even defined, are numerous. Although they have good intentions, they seem not to understand that good intentions come with a cost, and also that their own good intentions can result in people without good intentions turning the outcome on its head from what was intended.

I advocate on the basis of cost and benefit, not solely on the basis of benefit.

[RedScare]

People desperate to attempt 'something', whether well thought out or even defined, are numerous. Although they have good intentions, they seem not to understand that good intentions come with a cost, and also that their own good intentions can result in people without good intentions turning the outcome on its head from what was intended.

I advocate on the basis of cost and benefit, not solely on the basis of benefit.

I guess you're REALLY pissed at NASA's cost overruns, then. Let's shut them down too, while we're at it.

[Trae]

Don't sell the drinks in cans. Use bottles.

[MetroMogul]

Forget vending machines; can we at least enter the 20th century by having Metro invest in restrooms at their transit centers. I'm sure it'd greatly cut down on the smell of piss all over the platforms.