JWW Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 swamplot always goes for the easy line and the smartass tone, which serves them right because the easy line so often undermines their pretense: For instance:a 40-storey hotel and condo tower is neither going to be taller than a 31-storey office building nor a 27-storey hospital, because interfloor heights are more than a third lower for residential and especially hotel space.Why do the interfloor heights vary so drastically? I assume it has to do with the location of a/c equipment and water heating equipment but "...more than a third lower for residential and ESPECIALLY hotel space" is something I did not know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Why do the interfloor heights vary so drastically? I assume it has to do with the location of a/c equipment and water heating equipment but "...more than a third lower for residential and ESPECIALLY hotel space" is something I did not know.Office, medical, retail, and industrial spaces are designed specifically to be reconfigured on a regular basis. That is a key criterion that allows real estate of these sorts to be considered "investment grade". Office users in particular tend to have a massive number of electric recepticals, phone jacks, and RJ-45 connections compared to residential users working within the same floorplate. Office shell space also has to accomodate both users that would want a floorplan with tiny enclosed offices or cube farms, and HVAC gets more complicated when a user wants to go with tiny enclosed offices.Although I've known of a few hotels that eventually get converted to residential (Memorial Towers and Rice Hotel come to mind), those conversions are major events in the history of such buildings, requiring a lot of structural engineering and a total retrofit of building systems. And on the whole, changes to the floorplans of residential or hotel buildings (that aren't being converted) are really extremely rare. Typical residential and hotel renovations would include that appliances, carpet, cabinets, bathroom fixtures, lighting fixtures, and trimwork be replaced. This fact allows for a greater degree of permenance, and that allows for lower inter-floor heights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Why is there a height limit for the buildings in the medical center? I don't think it is anywhere near any of the flight paths to/from Hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Why is there a height limit for the buildings in the medical center? I don't think it is anywhere near any of the flight paths to/from Hobby.Is there a height limit?One of the runways, used frequently by SWA for landing 737s, and the very same one that gives Garden Villas its noise troubles, has an approach that is very close the the TMC. Even still, it strikes me as highly unlikely that a plane would be that low that far out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Is there a height limit?One of the runways, used frequently by SWA for landing 737s, and the very same one that gives Garden Villas its noise troubles, has an approach that is very close the the TMC. Even still, it strikes me as highly unlikely that a plane would be that low that far out.How tall is it? 458-and-a-half feet, according to the drawing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolie Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Why do the interfloor heights vary so drastically? I assume it has to do with the location of a/c equipment and water heating equipment but "...more than a third lower for residential and ESPECIALLY hotel space" is something I did not know.As Niche pointed out above, but I'll just add that research space in particular needs *huge* interstitial spaces compared to office structures -- because of the complex ventilation, supply lines, electrical needs, etc. Look at the newish MD Anderson Research Tower. The floor count is low, but very tall comparatively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMND Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 San Diego has a 500ft limit also, I didn't know the TMC did. Although something about that doesn't seem right, I remember reading an article that said once the TMC ran out of land, they'd have to start building very tall, which would be hard to do if there was a 500ft limit. I've never seen anywhere that said the TMC has a height limit, but maybe it is somewhere in the rules for building on the campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) I've never heard of any height restriction. It could be a mistake on the part of the blogger who wrote that.I remember getting into an argument with somebody a while back when I said that there needed to be more residential IN the medical center as opposed to out near the Astrodome or in the Almeda wasteland. I was told residential would never happen in the medical center. I'm glad I was right and this is actually looking like it is going to happen. Edited March 17, 2008 by Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I was told residential would never happen in the medical center. I'm glad I was right and this is actually looking like it is going to happen.Technically, this 40-story highrise is not within the TMC campus. No hotels, apartments, or any other for-profit operation is allowed within the TMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I've never heard of any height restriction. It could be a mistake on the part of the blogger who wrote that.I remember getting into an argument with somebody a while back when I said that there needed to be more residential IN the medical center as opposed to out near the Astrodome or in the Almeda wasteland. I was told residential would never happen in the medical center. I'm glad I was right and this is actually looking like it is going to happen.I'm right there with you. Honestly there needs to be more of these in one form or another in some of the newer buildings that are being planned.Happened to stumble upon the various requests of this project on TV (I need a life) and the variance requests on the terraces were approved. The project as far as I know isn't fully "go" yet, but getting close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) Technically, this 40-story highrise is not within the TMC campus. No hotels, apartments, or any other for-profit operation is allowed within the TMC.Well, there's a hotel of some sort inside of MD Anderson (I had lunch there the other day) but apparently its only for patients and their families. And the Marriott and ex Crowne Plaza I would consider to be "on the campus" as well. Favrot Tower is also as much on the campus as you can get, and it's an apartment building (but only for TMC residents, fellows, students, doctors, etc). The boundaries of what is on the campus changes so quickly that saying the new tower is "not on the campus" doesn't really mean much. The new highrise will be between a Baylor Clinic, the Rice Collaborative Research Center, and Baylor faculty center. And who knows what else in the future. If you want to call that "off campus" sure, but its more a part of the TMC than the residential buildings at Almeda and Reliant Park are, and that's my point. Edited March 17, 2008 by Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMND Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) Why are for-profit organizations not allowed in the TMC? Seems like that kind of money, like from drug companies, would help the TMC have more than a boom, like maybe a super boom. Edited March 17, 2008 by NewMND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well, there's a hotel of some sort inside of MD Anderson (I had lunch there the other day) but apparently its only for patients and their families. And the Marriott and ex Crowne Plaza I would consider to be "on the campus" as well. Favrot Tower is also as much on the campus as you can get, and it's an apartment building (but only for TMC residents, fellows, students, doctors, etc). The boundaries of what is on the campus changes so quickly that saying the new tower is "not on the campus" doesn't really mean much. The new highrise will be between a Baylor Clinic, the Rice Collaborative Research Center, and Baylor faculty center. And who knows what else in the future. If you want to call that "off campus" sure, but its more a part of the TMC than the residential buildings at Almeda and Reliant Park are, and that's my point.I'm referring specifically to the deed restricted acreage. TMC member institutions own lots of other land nearby and south of Bray's Bayou, but that land isn't subject to the deed restrictions of the original TMC campus, which is east of Fannin Street.If your definition of what is the TMC is broadened to include what is immediately adjacent to TMC member institutions, such as the UT Health Science Center or M.D. Anderson, then you've got to include the "Almeda wasteland" because pretty much all of it is only right across the street from those institutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Why are for-profit organizations not allowed in the TMC? Seems like that kind of money, like from drug companies, would help the TMC have more than a boom, like maybe a super boom.If big pharma wants to take advantage of the TMC, they don't have to be smack-dab in the middle of it. An attempt was made to lure them into town by Lyme Properties on a site near Holcombe and Cambridge, but that never panned out. Similar attempts by other developers have also failed. Reserach space is expensive, TMC land is expense, and the pool of demand is pretty shallow.They tend not to be here almost at all, though, because the venture capital to fund such enterprises is all on the east and west coasts, and the financiers like to keep them close by (which is why attempts of biotech business incubators haven't panned out well in Houston). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 If big pharma wants to take advantage of the TMC, they don't have to be smack-dab in the middle of it. An attempt was made to lure them into town by Lyme Properties on a site near Holcombe and Cambridge, but that never panned out. Similar attempts by other developers have also failed. Reserach space is expensive, TMC land is expense, and the pool of demand is pretty shallow.They tend not to be here almost at all, though, because the venture capital to fund such enterprises is all on the east and west coasts, and the financiers like to keep them close by (which is why attempts of biotech business incubators haven't panned out well in Houston).Surely there must be something we can do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Surely there must be something we can do.Well, we could always open up our own bank and offer good financial terms. Collectively, we might be able to afford to keep a pharmaceutical company financed for about....1 day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelTwoNews Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Surely there must be something we can do.Are you Xeelee on SSP? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wernicke Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 About a year ago I sat in on a presentation by a BioHouston representative who was addressing the problems you guys are talking about... it was an interesting presentation. They went into comparisons of patent applications, venture capital, start-up biotech companies between Houston and other biotech-heavy regions (like Boston and California), and Houston is definitely behind the curve in nurturing potentially high-dollar biotech enterprises derived from our biomedical industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I wouldn't doubt that. The companies down here are used to dealing with Oil and energy.It would be a great benefit for them to come to Houston for a variety of reasons, two being "No State Income Taxes" and "No City Income Taxes."They might want to come here, but there have to be enough of an infrastructure for them to be able to put their foot in the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 No for-profit hospitals are allowed on the TMC campus. That's why Texas Orthopedic Hospital (HCA) is at Greenbriar and S. Main and Park Plaza (Tenet) is near the Museum of Natural Science. Hotels, etc. that support TMC are allowed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 It Looks a bit thin on one of the photos, and wide in the others. Great news, the Medical Center is filling in, and up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hotels, etc. that support TMC are allowed.I take issue with that. Provide one example of a for-profit hotel within the original deed-restricted TMC campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 (edited) The Marriott at Fannin and Dryden, and the Jesse H Jones Rotary House connected to MD Anderson (run by Marriott). Edited March 18, 2008 by Jax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyEvilTwin Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I take issue with that. Provide one example of a for-profit hotel within the original deed-restricted TMC campus.Well the Crowne Plaza was recently imploded to make room for an expansion of Texas Children's Hospital. That leaves 3 possibilities:1) The Crowne Plaza was not within the TMC campus, nor will the TCH expansion be.2) The Crowne Plaza was not within the TMC campus, but the campus will be expanded to house the TMC.3) The Crowne Plaza was within the TMC campus.I'm not saying anything one way or the other -- I have no idea. Anyone? The building clearly is one of several hotels within the shaded area of the TMC map (here) but that might just be imprecise mapping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I'm talking about the original deed-restricted land. It's all east of Fannin. Don't remember the precise southern boundary, but given that the old Prudential building wasn't originally used for any kind of medical purpose, I'd imagine that the southern boundary is probably Holcombe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 I'm talking about the original deed-restricted land. It's all east of Fannin. Don't remember the precise southern boundary, but given that the old Prudential building wasn't originally used for any kind of medical purpose, I'd imagine that the southern boundary is probably Holcombe.Who cares what the original deed-restricted land is? All I care about is where the TMC is today, and where it's going to expand to in the future.By the way, I heard from my prof at MD Anderson that the prudential building will be torn down at some point in the future for a shiny new tower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 By the way, I heard from my prof at MD Anderson that the prudential building will be torn down at some point in the future for a shiny new tower.another classic will be lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 I guess. That Building always looked too much like a prison to me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Who cares what the original deed-restricted land is? All I care about is where the TMC is today, and where it's going to expand to in the future. Apparently the persons that you've been arguing with do. I'd imagine that developers of hotel/residences do, too. By the way, I heard from my prof at MD Anderson that the prudential building will be torn down at some point in the future for a shiny new tower. This is true. I think its a shame, personally. There are plenty of back office staffers in the TMC that don't need huge interfloor spaces or heavy-duty equipment to do their jobs, and this is an excellent place for them to be located. A little bit of money towards renovations could go a long way. Tearing it down just seems like a waste. And the architecture of that building is gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 (edited) Here's an old building that I consider to be gorgeous. The prudential building is just sort of blah for me. The only thing it's got going for it is that it's older than most buildings in the TMC. It does seem like a waste tearing anything down though. I'm just not a huge fan of this building. The exterior, as well as parts of the interior could use some major renovations (I've got a class in there). Edited March 18, 2008 by Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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