Houston Road Designs - What Really Drives You Crazy?!

[JLWM8609]

Why should they say Spur 527? Would most drivers know what that was? Isn't Spur 527 basically just an on-ramp/off-ramp for 59? When I'm driving around there and need to get to 59, I want to see a sign that says 59, not Spur 527.

Because it's Spur 527, NOT US 59. They are two different highways, 59 is part of the US highway system and Spur 527 is part of the State highway system. You may be thinking that I'm referring to the reassurance shields on the side of the road, I'm not. I'm talking about the actual street signs posted on the traffic light poles. Before the project began, the street signs on the feeder read "Southwest Freeway", because that was the terminus of the freeway until 1974, when US 59 was finally routed around downtown to connect to the Eastex. When they replaced the street signs on the traffic lights along the Spur 527 portion of the Southwest Freeway, green signs with white lettering reading "US 59" in TxDOT fashion, not COH type, were put up. What I'm saying is, those feeder roads are that of "Spur 527", not US 59, and need to reflect that.

There were plans to eventually connect that Spur 527 it to 610 along where old Palm Center was and it just fizzled. They still can as right now it seems like such a waste of $$$. They should use that empty waste end of Spur 527 as a skating area or anything. what a waste it is. Has great views of DT skyline though. Dont ya just love how it backs up? Bad planning indeed. Let's hit the bell for another blunder.

-Ding-

You must mean Spur 5. Spur 527 runs nowhere near Palm Center, and would require a crazy zig zag pattern to get there. I've heard there were some plans to connect Spur 527 to the Pierce Elevated though.

[travelguy_73]

My pet peeves are the simple lack of proper signage and lane markings. To me, a true test of a transportation system is not how easy it is for locals to navigate, but how easy it is for visitors. In this case, the City and TXDoT fail in many places.

Freeways: Some directional and street signs for 45 (south of downtown) say "45 North" and "45 South," yet others say "Gulf Freeway North" and "Gulf Freeway South" with no mention of 45 and no interstate symbol. Same with 59 ("Southwest Freeway"). Like everyone is supposed to know they are the same thing?

Lane Markings: I like that many left and right lanes of major roads have mandatory turns. However, finding out that the lane is a mandatory turn all of 20' from the intersection probably means it is too late to get out of the lane without causing grief to other motorists. How hard is it for the City and TXDoT to occassionally audit major intersections for missing or poorly thought out signs? Do they not drive the same streets we do and see how people react to them? Of course, with that said, I did once get into an argument with a TXDoT rep about the placement of a 'turn only' arrow at Gulf Freeway SB at Wayside. It was mounted so low to the ground that you couldn't see it until you were the first car at the intersection. It took going to his supervisor's boss to get the sign placed next to the signal light where people actually look...simply ridiculous.

[JLWM8609]

I have another one for the "oops" files. About a year ago, they started placing the fancy looking directional signs with Texas Medical Center insignias and script on them, mounted on fancy poles. All of that decoration, but the signs point to "US 288". US 288 does not exist anywhere in the US. It should read "SH 288". Then, there was the I-59 sign on I-10 near the US 59 interchange, it took a letter to the Chronicle to get it changed.

[memebag]

Because it's Spur 527, NOT US 59. They are two different highways, 59 is part of the US highway system and Spur 527 is part of the State highway system. You may be thinking that I'm referring to the reassurance shields on the side of the road, I'm not. I'm talking about the actual street signs posted on the traffic light poles. Before the project began, the street signs on the feeder read "Southwest Freeway", because that was the terminus of the freeway until 1974, when US 59 was finally routed around downtown to connect to the Eastex. When they replaced the street signs on the traffic lights along the Spur 527 portion of the Southwest Freeway, green signs with white lettering reading "US 59" in TxDOT fashion, not COH type, were put up. What I'm saying is, those feeder roads are that of "Spur 527", not US 59, and need to reflect that.

Then maybe I don't understand what Spur 527 is. The maps I've seen show it as a tiny leg that comes off of US 59. It a "highway" by any stretch of the imagination, it's just an on-ramp and off-ramp for 59. Is there some other part to Spur 527 not on the maps? And if so, how would the public be served by labeling it as such?

[Vertigo58]

It's surprising what simple mispelled signs can do it true. City had replaced the Tellepson street exit sign on 45/Telephone Road feeder over a yr ago. It's now spelled Tleppson or something insane like that. Not too much for locals to figure our but for newcomers searching directions on mapquest, etc its a real trip up.

and right, sorry I mixed up Spur 5 with 527...

and thats another thing I hate that stupid word Spur? sounds very "country". (Singing cowboy) I got spur's that jingle jangle jing as I go riding merrily along. What's up!

[travelguy_73]

I have another one for the "oops" files. About a year ago, they started placing the fancy looking directional signs with Texas Medical Center insignias and script on them, mounted on fancy poles. All of that decoration, but the signs point to "US 288". US 288 does not exist anywhere in the US. It should read "SH 288". Then, there was the I-59 sign on I-10 near the US 59 interchange, it took a letter to the Chronicle to get it changed.

I recall Old Spanish Trail at Spur 5 near UH being labeled Old Spansih Trail. I called 311 about it a couple of times, but by then I changed my route and so have no idea if it is still incorrect. Seems like I saw one sign that referred to it as OST, like everyone knows what OST is.

[JLWM8609]

and right, sorry I mixed up Spur 5 with 527...

and thats another thing I hate that stupid word Spur? sounds very "country". (Singing cowboy) I got spur's that jingle jangle jing as I go riding merrily along. What's up!

LOL. Spurs are as Texas as feeder roads and high mast lighting are. To better explain the purpose of a Spur, it's a secondary state highway, like a "loop" or "FM" road. It can't be designated as a FM road since Richmond to Westheimer is hardly "Farm to Market", and "FM" roads are typically long. A "loop" typically either encircles a town (Loop 336 in Conroe) or connects two highways together (Loop 1 in Austin between Hwy 71 and US 183). A Spur is just an offshoot of a highway (ie, Spur 261/N. Shepherd is an offshoot of I-45). Spur 5 is supposed to be the future SH 35. SH 35's current route begins at Jefferson and Dowling where it goes onto the upper deck of the double deck portion of I-45 (technically, I-45 is routed on the lower lanes while SH 35 is routed on the upper lanes). I-45 and SH 35 are multiplexed from just past Spur 5 to 610, where SH 35 becomes Reveille, then it becomes Telephone Rd. and runs down to Pearland and Alvin. Spur 5 is supposed to run all the way to Alvin where a freeway portion of SH 35 already exists, and the old SH 35 on Reveille and Telephone will either become a "FM" or be turned over to COH, Harris, and Brazoria counties for maintainence.

Then maybe I don't understand what Spur 527 is. The maps I've seen show it as a tiny leg that comes off of US 59. It a "highway" by any stretch of the imagination, it's just an on-ramp and off-ramp for 59. Is there some other part to Spur 527 not on the maps? And if so, how would the public be served by labeling it as such?

My point is, if it's not in the official TxDOT designation files as US 59, don't label it as that. That's like calling Fannin from Holcombe to OST Knight Rd. Yeah, it may have been that back in the past, but it would be incorrect to call it such today, and there would be a fit if street signs went up along that stretch saying "Knight Rd."

[tomv]

I'm not too crazy about that new roundabout (or is it a traffic circle?) on Washington Avenue at Westcott.

But it's not as bad as this one:

http://www.urbandesign.it/immagini/Magic_Roundabout.jpg

[memebag]

My point is, if it's not in the official TxDOT designation files as US 59, don't label it as that. That's like calling Fannin from Holcombe to OST Knight Rd. Yeah, it may have been that back in the past, but it would be incorrect to call it such today, and there would be a fit if street signs went up along that stretch saying "Knight Rd."

Sorry, I don't follow your analogy. Spur 527 is a little branch off of US 59, right? It's only purpose is to get people onto or off of 59. We don't give each exit ramp its own label (or if we do, I don't know about it), we mark them with the road(s) they access. Who cares what the official TxDOT designation is? How does that help anyone?

[Trae]

It is a TXDoT directive that was issued about 50 years ago, when access to private property in rural areas was at the top of many peoples' minds. What was then rural and near the major cities is now suburban, and commercial growth along what had been rural feeder roads made conversion to non-feeder impractical, even in cases of total reconstruction.

TXDoT's commitment to the old directive has wavered in the last couple decades, as can be evidenced along I-10 west of the Grand Parkway, parts of SH 288, and most of US 90.

The Grand Parkway is being built with feeders first, with main lanes only built as demand and funding warrant them. Given the willingness of many property owners to donate land to TXDoT outright to gain frontage on the feeders, it is entirely possible that they are actually as much a cost-saving mechanism as anything. There is even evidence that on parts of SH 288 where no feeders exist that private landowners will design and build them to increase accessibility to the most visible parts of their land, adding tremendously to their land value.

I don't think all of the Grand Parkway has feeders. I noticed when I was heading south to Sugar Land over the weekend, that most of the Grand Parkway from I-10 to US 69 is designed the same way it is through Cinco Ranch. There are no feeders in Cinco Ranch. The part that some people think are feeders are actually the exit ramps. Look at this photo:

No feeders.

[sidegate]

what's not to like? it's the most sensible intersection in town.

and yes, it's a roundabout.

I'm not too crazy about that new roundabout (or is it a traffic circle?) on Washington Avenue at Westcott.

But it's not as bad as this one:

http://www.urbandesign.it/immagini/Magic_Roundabout.jpg

[JLWM8609]

Sorry, I don't follow your analogy. Spur 527 is a little branch off of US 59, right? It's only purpose is to get people onto or off of 59. We don't give each exit ramp its own label (or if we do, I don't know about it), we mark them with the road(s) they access. Who cares what the official TxDOT designation is? How does that help anyone?

Exit ramps don't have designation files with TxDOT. Regardless of its length, the highway (it IS a highway just like SPUR 261 and SPUR 5 are, and I refuse to argue any further with you about that fact) has feeder roads that are improperly marked by signage that YOU as a taxpayer are paying for.

From the TxDOT designation files.

STATE HIGHWAY SPUR NO. 527

Adm. Auth., dated 07/30/1976; Adm. Ltr. 014-1976, dated 08/16/1976

From US 59, approx. 0.9 mile west of SH 288, northeastward and northward approx. 0.8 mile. (Harris County) New Designation.

It may not be important to you, but roadgeeks will tell you that it's an egregious error on the part of TxDOT. As big of a fuss as they made over this reconstruction project, you'd think they'd get something that small correct.

[Subdude]

I'm not too crazy about that new roundabout (or is it a traffic circle?) on Washington Avenue at Westcott.

But it's not as bad as this one:

http://www.urbandesign.it/immagini/Magic_Roundabout.jpg

I lived very close to the Magic Roundabout for a few months. That thing scared me to death.

[CDeb]

I'm not too crazy about that new roundabout (or is it a traffic circle?) on Washington Avenue at Westcott.

It was poorly signed and striped when it initially opened, but they've made some improvements recently that help a lot.

It sure is a whole lot better than what was there before (cluster of odd-angled intersections).

[Vertigo58]

I lived very close to the Magic Roundabout for a few months. That thing scared me to death.

It's interesting when you approach it. That same feeling when your about to get on a escalator or merry-go-round. If you don't time it just right your screwed. Almost like walking on a sidewalk and you avoid stepping on a crack. It's amazing Houston has that thing there. Then huge ones like in Europe are bizarre. These circle deals were discussed a few months ago on another topic.

[crunchtastic]

Then huge ones like in Europe are bizarre.

And trying to get through 4 sort-of-lanes of traffic to the exit the circle--argh. It's just like what happens to Chevy Chase in European Vacation. That cracks me up just thinking about it. "Look kids! Big Ben! Parliament!"

[CE_ugh]

Exit ramps don't have designation files with TxDOT. Regardless of its length, the highway (it IS a highway just like SPUR 261 and SPUR 5 are, and I refuse to argue any further with you about that fact) has feeder roads that are improperly marked by signage that YOU as a taxpayer are paying for.

From the TxDOT designation files.

It may not be important to you, but roadgeeks will tell you that it's an egregious error on the part of TxDOT. As big of a fuss as they made over this reconstruction project, you'd think they'd get something that small correct.

Usually highway departments will apply hidden designations to highways that lead from one highway to another. Since Spur 527 leads to 59 its much simpler to a driver to say that this highway leads TO 59 as opposed to this highway IS South Spur 527. There is a hidden designation called Spur 71 outside of Victoria which serves as a connection between South 59 and South 77, but it is only signed with a simple signpost for recordkeeping purposes. Also Spur 527 is signed at its beginning on Smith St.

[desirous]

The 59/West Loop interchange pisses me off. Txdot should've done work on 59's ramp configuration as well as on 610. The Weslayan and Chimney Rock entrance ramps are far too close to function efficiently. There needs to be collector-distributor ramps like on the West Loop northbound feeder north of Woodway.

That West Loop southbound exit to 59 is horribly designed as well. The southbound 610 feeder should have its own flyover to northbound 59 instead of rely on an atrocious merge, though it looks geometrically nearly impossible.

[Travel_n_Transport]

Not so much road designs, for me its the unprotected left turns in Montrose/River Oaks that back up traffic (and the self-serving jerks who don't put on their turn signal till the light turns green). The city needs to crack down on these intersections with No Left Turn 7 a.m-9a.m. and 4p.m. to 7p.m. signs.

Most annoying...the a-holes who have to left turn off Peden to go south on Shepherd (by La Madeleine) block north bound Shepherd traffic. There's a protected left 100 yards to the north - use it. The city should make that a right turn only intersection.

Others:

W. Gray at Dunlevy (just about the worst)

W. Gray at Waugh (one of the worst)

Waugh at Dallas

Westheimer at Dunlevy

Dallas at Montrose (for Dallas drivers)

San Felipe at Shepherd (by Taco Bell)

San Felipe at Weslayan (for San Felipe drivers)