Moving To The Woodlands

[snickstx]

For those that responded to my questions about Cy-Fair, thanks for the input and direction. After mulling over my options, doing some more research and basically keeping my ear to the ground it looks like The Woodlands may be a better fit for my family. While I am still in love with the area, I have to look at my ability to upgrade from starter home to larger home and then to retirement home without a huge impact on my family every time we move. Now, I have A LOT of questions that hopefully some residents can help me out with.

Due to budgetary restraints, I've been looking at townhouses (Alden), some smaller starter (read:needs work) homes (Grogan's) and some larger, older homes (Shenandoah). Traffic is one of my primary concerns. I will be working on Airline & Aldine Bender just south of Greenspoint. Also, 2 young kids (4 &7) so access to good and economical daycare is a must.

ALDEN

1) How is traffic from Alden to 45 during rush hour via 242? What about 242 from Greenbridge and then out 1488?

2) How are the townhouse communities in this area? Are they integrated into the neighborhoods well or do they just look like streets of duplexes?

3) How is retail support in this area? Grocery stores, general retail, gas stations, etc?

4) Specific to townhouses anywhere in The Woodlands...what should I expect to pay every month in addition to P&I, insurance, property tax and maintenance fees?

5) For those that live or have lived in a townhouse in The Woodlands, how was your experience? Anything I need to keep an eye out for going in?

GROGAN'S

1) Same as above, how is traffic in and out during rush hour from say Sawdust & Grogan's?

2) Is this area more susceptible to flooding? Have any houses or streets been condemned?

3) Is this still pretty safe? Would you let your kids play in the neighborhood?

4) As above, what about retail support this far south?

SHENANDOAH (West of 45)

1) Any drawbacks to this area other than no HOA and related fees?

2) Traffic doesn't seem to be much of a problem but I'll throw it out just in case, anything I need to be aware of? Other than the cops.

3) Flooding and/or other drainage issues? Is there city sewer or septic?

4) Are the neighborhoods maintained or is it starting to slip?

Lastly, if push comes to shove, I may have to move into an apartment while I sell my house up hear. Are there any that I need to avoid? Rent budget is about $800 for a 2 bedroom. Also, are school transfers allowed? I would rather the kids go to one school the whole time.

Sorry for so many questions but I haven't been in The Woodlands (other than for a concert) in about 15 years. I am planning another trip soon but with 87 getting close to $3/gal, I've got to watch my driving from Fort Worth.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I learn more but this is all I can think of for now. TIA

Edited November 8, 2007 by snickstx

[Mom22Blessings]

For those that responded to my questions about Cy-Fair, thanks for the input and direction. After mulling over my options, doing some more research and basically keeping my ear to the ground it looks like The Woodlands may be a better fit for my family. While I am still in love with the area, I have to look at my ability to upgrade from starter home to larger home and then to retirement home without a huge impact on my family every time we move. Now, I have A LOT of questions that hopefully some residents can help me out with.

Due to budgetary restraints, I've been looking at townhouses (Alden), some smaller starter (read:needs work) homes (Grogan's) and some larger, older homes (Shenandoah). Traffic is one of my primary concerns. I will be working on Airline & Aldine Bender just south of Greenspoint. Also, 2 young kids (4 &7) so access to good and economical daycare is a must.

ALDEN

1) How is traffic from Alden to 45 during rush hour via 242? What about 242 from Greenbridge and then out 1488?

I'd say about 15 minutes

2) How are the townhouse communities in this area? Are they integrated into the neighborhoods well or do they just look like streets of duplexes?

Don't know

3) How is retail support in this area? Grocery stores, general retail, gas stations, etc?

Each village has it's own retail center with grocery stores (Randalls or Kroger) and several shops.

4) Specific to townhouses anywhere in The Woodlands...what should I expect to pay every month in addition to P&I, insurance, property tax and maintenance fees?

I don't know

5) For those that live or have lived in a townhouse in The Woodlands, how was your experience? Anything I need to keep an eye out for going in?

I don't know

GROGAN'S

1) Same as above, how is traffic in and out during rush hour from say Sawdust & Grogan's?

15 minutes

2) Is this area more susceptible to flooding? Have any houses or streets been condemned?

It is more susceptible but The Woodlands has a flood plan in place.Not to my knowledge.

3) Is this still pretty safe? Would you let your kids play in the neighborhood?

4) As above, what about retail support this far south?

There is Grogan's Mill Village Center and then Market Street off Grogan's Mill father north.

SHENANDOAH (West of 45) (don't know about Shenandoah)

1) Any drawbacks to this area other than no HOA and related fees?

2) Traffic doesn't seem to be much of a problem but I'll throw it out just in case, anything I need to be aware of? Other than the cops.

3) Flooding and/or other drainage issues? Is there city sewer or septic?

4) Are the neighborhoods maintained or is it starting to slip?

Lastly, if push comes to shove, I may have to move into an apartment while I sell my house up hear. Are there any that I need to avoid? Rent budget is about $800 for a 2 bedroom. Also, are school transfers allowed? I would rather the kids go to one school the whole time.

Sorry for so many questions but I haven't been in The Woodlands (other than for a concert) in about 15 years. I am planning another trip soon but with 87 getting close to $3/gal, I've got to watch my driving from Fort Worth.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I learn more but this is all I can think of for now. TIA

There are several houses in The Woodlands under 150 K right now. If you are going to buy I would recommend a house instead of a townhouse.

Check out this link:

http://www.woodlandsnewhomes.com/index.cfm

[Native1]

ALDEN

1) How is traffic from Alden to 45 during rush hour via 242? What about 242 from Greenbridge and then out 1488?

My husband does this commute daily and he says 15 minutes. I'm pretty sure he goes out Greenbridge/242/45 and *never* 1488.

2) How are the townhouse communities in this area? Are they integrated into the neighborhoods well or do they just look like streets of duplexes?

I think they are nicely done. Not sure about any of the prices, but you could also look at Villa Oaks in Alden Bridge for townhomes.

3) How is retail support in this area? Grocery stores, general retail, gas stations, etc?

Like Mom22 says, all Villages have their own Shopping Centers, so it's all fairly close and convienent for everyday-type shopping (grocer, liquor, pharmacy, dry cleaner, etc.)

GROGAN'S

1) Same as above, how is traffic in and out during rush hour from say Sawdust & Grogan's?

Much closer proximity to the freeway, but there is still a lot of traffic.

3) Is this still pretty safe? Would you let your kids play in the neighborhood?

Grogan's Mill is closer to the freeway and with that, you're going to have a higher crime rate. Depending on which neighborhood, but in general, yes... I'd let my kids play out in the neighborhood.

4) As above, what about retail support this far south?

Much more shopping near the freeway, as opposed to the other Villages. You have everything along the freeway - Sawdust, Oak Ridge, Shenendoah, Market Street & the Mall, etc.

Lastly, if push comes to shove, I may have to move into an apartment while I sell my house up hear. Are there any that I need to avoid? Rent budget is about $800 for a 2 bedroom. Also, are school transfers allowed? I would rather the kids go to one school the whole time.

I've heard that you can request your child to go to any school within CISD, but you're own your own for transportation if you choose outisde your zone. I haven't tried this, myself, so it's just a rumour you can look into...

[wxman]

My husband does this commute daily and he says 15 minutes. I'm pretty sure he goes out Greenbridge/242/45 and *never* 1488.

I think they are nicely done. Not sure about any of the prices, but you could also look at Villa Oaks in Alden Bridge for townhomes.

Like Mom22 says, all Villages have their own Shopping Centers, so it's all fairly close and convienent for everyday-type shopping (grocer, liquor, pharmacy, dry cleaner, etc.)

Much closer proximity to the freeway, but there is still a lot of traffic.

Grogan's Mill is closer to the freeway and with that, you're going to have a higher crime rate. Depending on which neighborhood, but in general, yes... I'd let my kids play out in the neighborhood.

Much more shopping near the freeway, as opposed to the other Villages. You have everything along the freeway - Sawdust, Oak Ridge, Shenendoah, Market Street & the Mall, etc.

I've heard that you can request your child to go to any school within CISD, but you're own your own for transportation if you choose outisde your zone. I haven't tried this, myself, so it's just a rumour you can look into...

I used my grandmothers address to go to Ride Elementary, Collins, Knox...ect... They had a big problem with it when they found out. I lived over in Oak Ridge at the time. So I don't think you can just go anywhere. What you might be thinking of is if you live in Shenendoah or off of 242 in Eagle Lakes, you have the option to go to The Woodlands or Oak Ridge.

As far as shopping, you have it all and then some. You have your high-end retails to your average lines. The Galleria is a short drive away and numerous resturants. The Woodlands is one of, if not the, fastest growing community in Houston and by far one of the nicest.

As far as traffic, we are a growing community in a county with explosive development. When we moved here in the late 80s, The Woodlands had ~25,000 people. I-45 was a tree lined, two lane highway all the way past 1960. Now, you can't tell where one ends and one begins. The Woodlands as of 2006 is approching 90,000 people. Montgomery County is over 400,000. By 2035, Montgomery County will have be approaching the 1 million persons mark. So traffic, dare I say, will only get worse. However, if your usband will be using 242, they are putting in a flyover from 45 to 242 that should be completed by 2008 sometime. That will help to relieve the traffic for the time being.

I think you've made the right decision to call The Woodlands home. It's a well rounded community. Safety, convenience, and luxury sum it up. The Woodlands is home to many corporate headquarters and is a short drive to the cities largest airport...IAH. It's location, in the midst of the piney woods offers a relaxing get away from city life, while being within easy reach of Downtown, Greenway Plaza and the Galleria.

[Native1]

I used my grandmothers address to go to Ride Elementary, Collins, Knox...ect... They had a big problem with it when they found out. I lived over in Oak Ridge at the time. So I don't think you can just go anywhere. What you might be thinking of is if you live in Shenendoah or off of 242 in Eagle Lakes, you have the option to go to The Woodlands or Oak Ridge.

Somebody was telling me about this just the other day. I found it hard to believe - some of the schools have better reputations than others, but they're all pretty much bursting at the seams, so I'd think they are really strict with the zoning rules. I didn't look into it at all, I'm very happy with my kids' Elementary school, so thank you for clarifying.

[woody_hawkeye]

The 242 route can be plugged up when the high school traffic is at its peak. I find the trffic pretty bad getting onto I45 at that time and at 8AM with the rush to Montgomery College. My bet is that you want to leave much earler, so the traffic should not be very bad then."Grogan's Mill is closer to the freeway and with that, you're going to have a higher crime rate. Depending on which neighborhood, but in general, yes... I'd let my kids play out in the neighborhood."In monitoring crime in the area I have never seen anything that suggests this to be true. Wer do not have a high crime rate period and as far as Grogans Mill goes, it is as contorted as any village and difficult to find your way around there. Ther has been a higher interest in Grogans Mill in recent days as the traffic has grown tremendously on the main arteries like The Woodlands Parkway, causing significant issues at peak commute times.

[Native1]

In monitoring crime in the area I have never seen anything that suggests this to be true. Wer do not have a high crime rate period and as far as Grogans Mill goes, it is as contorted as any village and difficult to find your way around there. Ther has been a higher interest in Grogans Mill in recent days as the traffic has grown tremendously on the main arteries like The Woodlands Parkway, causing significant issues at peak commute times.

Then I have to ask, What *have* you been monitoring?

The Woodlands Crime Data Reports

[wxman]

Somebody was telling me about this just the other day. I found it hard to believe - some of the schools have better reputations than others, but they're all pretty much bursting at the seams, so I'd think they are really strict with the zoning rules. I didn't look into it at all, I'm very happy with my kids' Elementary school, so thank you for clarifying.

In regaurds to some schools being better than others, yes, it is all true. It's all about the money. The Woodlands is a very affluent area and becoming more so with every building that is put up. Have you seen TWHS College Park? It looks like a greek palace. The schools in The Woodlands are all exemplerary. I have long stated that The Woodlands should be it's own school district. Schools in Conroe are not as good as ours and gives us a bad repuation. But again it's all about the money and taxes. The residents of The Woodlands pay a lot of money to have the schools they do. Therefore they expect to get what they pay for.

[KatieDidIt]

In regaurds to some schools being better than others, yes, it is all true. It's all about the money. The Woodlands is a very affluent area and becoming more so with every building that is put up. Have you seen TWHS College Park? It looks like a greek palace. The schools in The Woodlands are all exemplerary. I have long stated that The Woodlands should be it's own school district. Schools in Conroe are not as good as ours and gives us a bad repuation. But again it's all about the money and taxes. The residents of The Woodlands pay a lot of money to have the schools they do. Therefore they expect to get what they pay for.

What?? CISD gives and provides the EXACT same education in every school. Jeez, they all teach the district standard. The building does not make the school, neither does this "money" that I NEVER saw in the three years I lived in TW. As long as the public schools teach to pass the TAKS, they are all the same. The only difference is that some districts in Texas have more money that others for PE, Art and Music. Pure and simple. CISD=HISD=SBISD=MISD=TISD=Cy-Fair. Some just have more to spend on specials and some pass bonds for new schools. The people in TW pay no more for a CISD school as those in Oak Ridge or Walden or Rural areas. Its all a tax rate based on property value, or in the case of TWs improvement value, as the land is worth very little. Good grief. Just because you are in TW doesn't mean CISD gives you a "special" education. I do think however TW kids are taught how to fill in the bubble better. Their ENTIRE education is based on it.

OMG, where is Vicman when you need him?

oh and FYI, when we moved back to Houston, TW schools left us 1 1/2 years behind in the wake of a private school education. ERB test results will come out in a few weeks and I will let you know where a Woodlands CISD Gifted and Talented child ranked. From the grades we got the first few weeks, its not going to be pretty. How can a GT CISD kid not be reading up to grade level?????????

Edited November 9, 2007 by KatieDidIt

[wxman]

What?? CISD gives and provides the EXACT same education in every school. Jeez, they all teach the district standard. The building does not make the school, neither does this "money" that I NEVER saw in the three years I lived in TW. As long as the public schools teach to pass the TAKS, they are all the same. The only difference is that some districts in Texas have more money that others for PE, Art and Music. Pure and simple. CISD=HISD=SBISD=MISD=TISD=Cy-Fair. Some just have more to spend on specials and some pass bonds for new schools. The people in TW pay no more for a CISD school as those in Oak Ridge or Walden or Rural areas. Its all a tax rate based on property value, or in the case of TWs improvement value, as the land is worth very little. Good grief. Just because you are in TW doesn't mean CISD gives you a "special" education. I do think however TW kids are taught how to fill in the bubble better. Their ENTIRE education is based on it.

OMG, where is Vicman when you need him?

oh and FYI, when we moved back to Houston, TW schools left us 1 1/2 years behind in the wake of a private school education. ERB test results will come out in a few weeks and I will let you know where a Woodlands CISD Gifted and Talented child ranked. From the grades we got the first few weeks, its not going to be pretty. How can a GT CISD kid not be reading up to grade level?????????

No, all schools in C.I.S.D are not all the same. The environment in which a lesson is taught is just as important. And if your so displeased with the district, then send him/her to John Cooper or move back to wherever you came here from. Problem solved. Also the federal government (aka Bush) is the problem with education...and many many many many other things in this country. I think any state test is ridiculous and like you said, until we quit teaching the test, it'll never improve. But compared to other districts in the area, The Woodlands has some of the better schools.

Edited November 9, 2007 by wxman

[KatieDidIt]

No, all schools in C.I.S.D are not all the same. The environment in which a lesson is taught is just as important. And if your so displeased with the district, then send him/her to John Cooper or move back to wherever you came here from. Problem solved. Also the federal government (aka Bush) is the problem with education...and many many many many other things in this country. I think any state test is ridiculous and like you said, until we quit teaching the test, it'll never improve. But compared to other districts in the area, The Woodlands has some of the better schools.

They are a fine and currently safe education, but they are really going to have to look into campus security at some point and quit ignoring the future. However its absolutely preposterous for you to say TW residents pay more and expect more for the education, or imply that Conroe is so bad that it pulls CISD's imagine down. A person in TW in a 250k house pays the exact same tax as a person in Oak Ridge for a 250k house. When you pay taxes, you pay for the entire district not just for the area you are in. You maybe be living in TW, but your taxes go to all schools within the district. CISD built that Pantheon of College Park, not solely TW tax money. People who live in rural Conroe contributed to that school too. Also,CISD provides them with the teaching standard and the same qualified teachers, and everything goes through CISD headquarters. I've sat with parents at the football fields, whose kids are not in a TW school, and the spelling list and math concepts they have are the exactly same ones we are doing that week. So what if one is in a two year old school and the other is in a twenty year old building. Education is what you take away from the school, not what the school looks like. If you didn't train kids like puppies to fill in a blank only, and just tested them on general knowledge, the results of TW CISD, Rural CISD, KISD, MISD,SBISD, TISD, Cy Fair, HISD etc would all be stunning similar. Or maybe it would actually show what schools are actually teaching something.

The only thing that TW has very little of is the impoverished population. Its primarily very middle to moderately upper middle class. I guess this is what keeps the schools free of violent crime, but not of drug and huge discipline problems. I've said it before, our generation can't raise kids very well. Anywho, those socio-economic categories don't exactly have gobs of money to throw at schools either. Most pay the taxes, donate some time and support the festival for under $100. As TW becomes larger, the Parkway opens to Tomball, more businesses open that need apartment people to service them, the HOuston population pushes north, the "enviroment" will change. It already is. ESL will start to strain the system and all the specials will start to disappear one by one.

PTO's can make or break a public school this is true. But at the fund raisers we were at they didn't make astronomical amounts of money from their festivals. They were on par with all the other area schools, rural ones included. The most money I ever saw a PTO and Dad's Club make was Briargrove in HISD. They would raise over 80-100k a year.

Yes all TW, or most, have an Exemplary rating but they all teach for it and are highly focuses on that. Last year we had no projects, no book reports no social studies. All we had was the TAKS review and practice passages coming home. The younger one had that as well as a spelling list, I had to teach multiplication to him at home. I almost feel kids in merely recognized schools are probably receiving better instruction and getting the basics down. This is a state flaw not a TW one. However, to my understanding, it is strongly encouraged from the powers that be of the area to achieve this rating.

All this is my point of view from a rather broad base of personal experience. Take it or leave it. We moved up there for the schools, we fell for the hoopla, but were left cold with a stunningly average education. Safe but very average. But I still have to argue with you over the fact that just because you pay a pro-rated fee/tax to keep up the parks and sidewalks (which no one uses) doesn't make the actual education any better And the current set-up for judging schools can be completely manipulated by teaching for it.

This thread cruised off topic so I will try to pull it back on a little from what I know.

1-Traffic. Its bad at certains times of the day, but they are working on it in the 242 area.

2- Flooding. From neighbors of ours that lived in AB, it flooded pretty badly in the 90's. They claimed they were stranded for days. Now, I have no clue if that situation was fixed or not.

3-Saftey of the neighborhoods. Sure lets the kids play in the neighborhood, but still use precautions. Calling when you arrive at a house, leave a house etc. Never go to the park alone. Personally I wouldn't let my kids roam for hours, like we did growing up. Remember, while the area is generally safe, Mayberry doesn't exist anywhere anymore.

4- No clue about the townhouses, but a majority of TW has houses for under 200k. But yes, I would for sure rent for at least 6 months before you jump in.

5-Shopping. Basic needs stores and shopping are about every three miles. Each Village has its own gorcery store. More upscale chain stores can be found in Market Street.

Edited November 9, 2007 by KatieDidIt

[woody_hawkeye]

Then I have to ask, What *have* you been monitoring?

The Woodlands Crime Data Reports

Native, we receive a report each month. In Houston the numbers I recall are much higher. I do not consider this a high crime area. In August we had one robbery report from a business. I know in Market Street we had a couple in November. In Houston, I was counting the rapes and the shootings on a quarterly basis. We mapped them. If you look at the numbers, the village with the most instances varies from month to month.

On education, I have observed that the principal, vice-principals and the PTO among other things make a school unique. Of course the teachers impact the ediucation our children get and they impact the quality of their education. CISD is certainly not a bad system. Each child has a huge potential in this system, and the family has an impact on the quality of their education. As far as tests go, there needs to be a standard. Personally, I do not know if the TAKS test is good or bad. I do know however that we must have a standard to measure by. Waiting for the SAT to come along is not a good idea. In this day and age, we still see the same SAT differentials. Some kids are better apt to make it than others. Then at 20 or 21, some come into bloom and are ready and capable where they were not in their earlier years. That is an unfortunate fact of life related to motivation and connecting the wires in the head.

Edited November 10, 2007 by woody_hawkeye

[Native1]

Native, we receive a report each month. In Houston the numbers I recall are much higher. I do not consider this a high crime area. In August we had one robbery report from a business. I know in Market Street we had a couple in November. In Houston, I was counting the rapes and the shootings on a quarterly basis. We mapped them. If you look at the numbers, the village with the most instances varies from month to month.

I didn't say we had a high crime rate! I said: "Grogan's Mill is closer to the freeway and with that, you're going to have a higher crime rate." I'm assuming that you've got the report that I posted a link to and if you read it, you'll see that there is a lot more than the 2 crimes that you're talking about. Crime happens here in The Woodlands! It happens in the villages, it happens in the neighborhoods. And the crime rate increases the closer you get to a freeway - I thought it was just common sense, but the numbers support it. Read the link.

[bachanon]

For those that responded to my questions about Cy-Fair, thanks for the input and direction. After mulling over my options, doing some more research and basically keeping my ear to the ground it looks like The Woodlands may be a better fit for my family. While I am still in love with the area, I have to look at my ability to upgrade from starter home to larger home and then to retirement home without a huge impact on my family every time we move. Now, I have A LOT of questions that hopefully some residents can help me out with.

Due to budgetary restraints, I've been looking at townhouses (Alden), some smaller starter (read:needs work) homes (Grogan's) and some larger, older homes (Shenandoah). Traffic is one of my primary concerns. I will be working on Airline & Aldine Bender just south of Greenspoint. Also, 2 young kids (4 &7) so access to good and economical daycare is a must.

ALDEN

1) How is traffic from Alden to 45 during rush hour via 242? What about 242 from Greenbridge and then out 1488?

widening of research forest and the addition of flyovers at 242 and i-45 will make getting to and from alden bridge worse than it is now. that being said, alden bridge is a great village.

2) How are the townhouse communities in this area? Are they integrated into the neighborhoods well or do they just look like streets of duplexes?

there are townhome communities nicely integrated with the rest of the village in grogan's mill, panther creek and cochran's crossing. not so much in alden bridge, sterling ridge and indian springs (that i've seen).

3) How is retail support in this area? Grocery stores, general retail, gas stations, etc?

ditto everyone else's comment on this question.

4) Specific to townhouses anywhere in The Woodlands...what should I expect to pay every month in addition to P&I, insurance, property tax and maintenance fees? when available, there are townhomes from under 100k to over 600k.

5) For those that live or have lived in a townhouse in The Woodlands, how was your experience? Anything I need to keep an eye out for going in?

GROGAN'S

1) Same as above, how is traffic in and out during rush hour from say Sawdust & Grogan's?

not a big deal.

2) Is this area more susceptible to flooding? Have any houses or streets been condemned?

no condemnations that i know of. some flooding in grogan's point and south sawmill neighborhoods./i]

3) Is this still pretty safe? Would you let your kids play in the neighborhood?

yes. but ditto katiedidit's precautions.

4) As above, what about retail support this far south?

huh? market street, the waterway and the mall are across woodlands parkway. shopping is always a last minute decision in our house.

SHENANDOAH (West of 45)

1) Any drawbacks to this area other than no HOA and related fees?

properties may increase in value in this area; however, there aren't many memorable houses. some streets have constant freeway/street noise (also true in grogan's mill)

2) Traffic doesn't seem to be much of a problem but I'll throw it out just in case, anything I need to be aware of? Other than the cops.

research forest can be a pain, but not for more than 5 or 10 minutes.

3) Flooding and/or other drainage issues? Is there city sewer or septic?

dunno

4) Are the neighborhoods maintained or is it starting to slip?

my opinion is that it will improve. there is currently a plan to add hike/bike trails around shenandoah and connect with the woodlands hike/bike trail system. also improvements to their public spaces are in the works.

Lastly, if push comes to shove, I may have to move into an apartment while I sell my house up hear. Are there any that I need to avoid? Rent budget is about $800 for a 2 bedroom. Also, are school transfers allowed? I would rather the kids go to one school the whole time.

budde road apartments have some crime issues. i would choose a more expensive apartment in the woodlands proper (some of those may be undesirable too, ask if you are interested in any particular community).

Sorry for so many questions but I haven't been in The Woodlands (other than for a concert) in about 15 years. I am planning another trip soon but with 87 getting close to $3/gal, I've got to watch my driving from Fort Worth.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I learn more but this is all I can think of for now. TIA

feel free to IM any question you may have.

[Mom22Blessings]

You can PM me too if you want.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Mom22Blessings

[VicMan]

I had compiled a list of CISD schools by ESL percentage for another thread... lemme see where it went...

It seems like most of CISD's limited English students are in the City of Conroe.

Here is a list of CISD schools ordered by percentage of limited English proficient students:

High schools

* Conroe (City of Conroe) (11%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1479#students

* Caney Creek (Uninc., Conroe address) (3%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1506#students

* Oak Ridge (Uninc., Conroe address) (3%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1498#students

* The Woodlands College Park (Uninc., The Woodlands) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9597#students

* The Woodlands (Uninc., The Woodlands) (1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1484#students

Junior high schools

* Washington (City of Conroe) (25%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9493#students

* Moorhead (Uninc., Conroe address) (9%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1505#students

* Peet (City of Conroe) (8%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1491#students

* York (Uninc., Conroe address) (3%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1500#students

* Knox (Uninc., The Woodlands) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1486#students

* McCullough (Uninc., The Woodlands) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9495#students

K-6 elementary & intermediate schools

* Tough (Uninc., The Woodlands) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9434#students

* Deretchin (Uninc., The Woodlands) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/10106#students

5-6 intermediate schools

* Travis (City of Conroe) (35%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9433#students

* Grangerland (Uninc., Conroe address) (15%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9435#students

* Cyrar (City of Conroe) (12%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/10105#students

* Vogel (Uninc. Spring address) (7%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9439#students

* Wilkerson (Uninc., The Woodlands) (6%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1492#students

* Collins (Uninc., The Woodlands) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1502#students

* Mitchell (Uninc., The Woodlands) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1508#students

K-4 elementary schools

* Sam Houston (City of Conroe) (57%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1482#students

* Anderson (City of Conroe) (54%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1475#students

* Runyan (City of Conroe) (49%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1489#students

* Milam (Uninc., Conroe address) (42%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1485#students

* Armstrong (City of Conroe) (36%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1476#students

* Creighton (Uninc., Conroe address) (33%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9018#students

* Reaves (City of Conroe) (27%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/10138#students

* Oak Ridge (Uninc., Conroe address) (22%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1487#students

* Giesinger (City of Conroe) (22%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1513#students

* Rice (City of Conroe) (19%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1478#students

* Ford (Uninc., Spring address) (16%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1474#students

* Glen Loch (Uninc., The Woodlands) (16%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1494#students

* Lamar (Uninc., The Woodlands) (11%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1483#students

* San Jacinto (Uninc., Conroe address) (3%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1495#toc

* Austin (Uninc., Conroe address) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1477#students

* David (Uninc., The Woodlands) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1512#students

* Galatas (Uninc., The Woodlands) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1493#students

* Powell (Uninc., The Woodlands) (2%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1504#students

* Buckalew (Uninc., The Woodlands) (1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1510#students

* Bush (Uninc., The Woodlands) (1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1509#students

* Hailey (Uninc., The Woodlands) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1490#students

* Houser (Uninc., Conroe address) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/9025#students

* Ride (Uninc., The Woodlands) (Less than 1%): http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/1499#students

Edited November 10, 2007 by VicMan

[woody_hawkeye]

I didn't say we had a high crime rate! I said: "Grogan's Mill is closer to the freeway and with that, you're going to have a higher crime rate." I'm assuming that you've got the report that I posted a link to and if you read it, you'll see that there is a lot more than the 2 crimes that you're talking about. Crime happens here in The Woodlands! It happens in the villages, it happens in the neighborhoods. And the crime rate increases the closer you get to a freeway - I thought it was just common sense, but the numbers support it. Read the link.

I read the information. I read it constntly. There are other sources as well for that info. I could see no evidence that Grogans Mill has a higher crime rate. In fact, looking at several months, the higher rates were traded with the other villages. I did not say that there were only two crimes. I was simply pointing out the severity and number of the crimes is relatively low.

3) Flooding and/or other drainage issues? Is there city sewer or septic?

dunno

There are very few flooding issues. We survived the tropical storm that flooded Houston so bad a few years ago without any significant issues of our own and it rained a LOT here! There is one section in Grogans Mill that had an issue last year. I do not lknow if it has been fixed or not. We have retention ponds and major drainage arteries. The pond where I live is one of those and it delays a lot of water from running down the exit creek in major rains.

We have sewer systems, not septic systems. Our water systems and sewer systems are excellent. We drink well water. The water comes from two deep producing zones. There is a shallow zone that produces water but it is used only for utility water here in The Woodlands.

Edited November 10, 2007 by woody_hawkeye

[bachanon]

I read the information. I read it constntly. There are other sources as well for that info. I could see no evidence that Grogans Mill has a higher crime rate. In fact, looking at several months, the higher rates were traded with the other villages. I did not say that there were only two crimes. I was simply pointing out the severity and number of the crimes is relatively low.

3) Flooding and/or other drainage issues? Is there city sewer or septic?

dunno

There are very few flooding issues. We survived the tropical storm that flooded Houston so bad a few years ago without any significant issues of our own and it rained a LOT here! There is one section in Grogans Mill that had an issue last year. I do not lknow if it has been fixed or not. We have retention ponds and major drainage arteries. The pond where I live is one of those and it delays a lot of water from running down the exit creek in major rains.

We have sewer systems, not septic systems. Our water systems and sewer systems are excellent. We drink well water. The water comes from two deep producing zones. There is a shallow zone that produces water but it is used only for utility water here in The Woodlands.

the question about flooding & sewer or septic was about shenandoah. i'm sure they have a sewer system but i'm not sure about flooding on the streets that back up to a large drainage ditch.

[Native1]

I could see no evidence that Grogans Mill has a higher crime rate. In fact, looking at several months, the higher rates were traded with the other villages.

http://www.thewoodlandsmonitor.com/modules...a_wood_8-07.pdf

From August 2007:

The Woodlands Zones, as you can read in the link, go from WZ5-1 with WZ1 being closer to I-45, generally speaking, you'd have to look at the map yourself, and WZ5 backing up to FM2978.

Page 7:

Total calls:

WZ1 - 504

WZ2 - 497

WZ3 - 418

WZ4 - 269

WZ5 - 421

Total reports:

WZ1 - 60

WZ2 - 65

WZ3 - 49

WZ4 - 35

WZ5 - 44

Page 9:

Total calls:

WZ1 - 38

WZ2 - 24

WZ3 - 12

WZ4 - 10

WZ5 - 9

Total reports:

WZ1 - 3

WZ2 - 4

WZ3 - 2

WZ4 -

WZ5 - 1

Page 11:

Total calls:

WZ1 - 12

WZ2 - 2

WZ3 - 3

WZ4 -

WZ5 -

Page 13:

Total calls:

WZ1 - 554

WZ2 - 523

WZ3 - 433

WZ4 - 279

WZ5 - 430

Total reports:

WZ1 - 63

WZ2 - 69

WZ3 - 51

WZ4 - 35

WZ5 - 45

[woody_hawkeye]

the question about flooding & sewer or septic was about shenandoah. i'm sure they have a sewer system but i'm not sure about flooding on the streets that back up to a large drainage ditch.

I guess it was the color. I just missed that line. Thanks.

Native - it is true that the number of calls is higher. Here is what I see for crimes:

WZ2 is higher in 911 calls. (probably some crimes in these)

WZ1 is higher in car thefts. (criminal offense for sure)

WZ1 is considerably higher in information calls (no crime is usually involved).

There are more suspicious person calls in WZ1 (no crime - another information type call)

WZ4 had more suicide calls (barely)

WZ5 beat everyone out on suspicious vehicles (another information call)

WZ1 called the police on other matters a lot more. No idea what was involved, each is usually unique. There may have been some crimes, maybe not, maybe mixed.

WZ3 beat out the others on felony arrests (a crime)

WZ3 much higher in traffic citations (I call this a crime also). I do not believe the red light cameras have anything to do with this.

WZ2 beat out the others on traffic warnings. New stickers?

Minors in possession - tie between WZ1 and WZ2. From what I have seen, they are not patrolling WZ3 for this because I see it in several public places in WZ3. Maybe it has to do with information calls. I have never called in about what I have seen.

WZ4 has it for juvenile arrests.

Basically, the number of calls is meaningless in determining who has the highest crime rate. If I was going on stolen cars, I would certainly say that in August WZ1 has a higher crime rate, but I do not want to make one offense worse than another. From what I see and have heard from the sheriff deputies that I have talked to, the villages are not very different from each other. Looking at the calls is a trap for reaching conclusions, because false alarms among other meaningless "crime" issues are there also.

We challenged the deputies to come up with a more meaningful comparision among villages. At any rate, I would not tell anyone we have a high crime rate, because we simply do not. Many people I know are quite relaxed about crime although we all come together occassionally to remind ourselves to stay vigilant. Some neighborhoods seem to be more vigilant than others and thereby make more calls. Ask youself about each line item, what it actually means and you get a different perspective and different answers from those collecting those statistics. I have been dealing with this for two years now and feel like I understand these numbers much more than I did two years ago, thanks to the explanations obtained from the sheriff deputies.

Hopefully, we will get more insight into the new report we expect to get this month.

Edited November 12, 2007 by woody_hawkeye

[VicMan]

By the way, regarding the overly-TAKS-ed culture of some public schools, I looked at the website of my alma mater, River Oaks ES.

Since it is an "IBO" school, it has to follow the standards of an organization in Geneva, Switzerland. Something tells me that a school that only hands TAKS work would not fit the standards of the IBO, so it appears that ROE did not decline. Also I notice that the Suzuki Violin position and five of the "enrichment" shifts are still there. I am not sure if the Computer enrichment course is still there or who teaches the Computer enrichment course (is it the Technology teacher?).

That reminds me: Do you think some schools in The Woodlands should try to adopt IBO standards at the elementary school level? It may help to establish IB in order to satisfy parents who want a more demanding curriculum than TAKS. Speaking of which, I believe TAKS curriculum belongs only in schools where kids wish to get into trades instead of academic fields.

Edited November 12, 2007 by VicMan

[Native1]

That reminds me: Do you think some schools in The Woodlands should try to adopt IBO standards at the elementary school level? It may help to establish IB in order to satisfy parents who want a more demanding curriculum than TAKS. Speaking of which, I believe TAKS curriculum belongs only in schools where kids wish to get into trades instead of academic fields.

There is at least one private school here that has either recently obtained IB certification or is still in the process (Not John Cooper; I have no idea what their status/cirriculum is). Frankly, I would be over the moon if the public elementarys around here started this program.

[snickstx]

Many thanks for all the passionate responses.

As to the education issue...for me at least, there are a number of other factors that contribute to a well rounded school experience. While I do think that teaching the test is deplorable, most if not all public schools do it. Unfortunately, I am just a border-line blue collar single dad raising two kids....no John Cooper in our future. With that said, I think the environment a child is educated in is on the same level as many other factors such as parental involvement and teacher dedication to education. While I haven't experienced it myself, I think it is safe to say that, considering 2 schools with exactly the same educators/staff/curriculum, my kids would be better served by a campus that offers more current technology, safer modern building and some of the other trappings of a more financially sound ISD. I went to school in one of those myself and much preferred it over some of the other schools in the city (Fort Worth). That's all I have to say about that. Except that I went to Lamar for a brief period in the 90's and they really had some great programs back then.

I was actually surprised to hear that it takes 15 minutes to get to the highway from Alden Bridge....it doesn't look that far on the map. LOL

I am actually leaning more towards Shenandoah because it looks like I can get more house for the money, the city government is established and it

[pineda]

There is at least one private school here that has either recently obtained IB certification or is still in the process (Not John Cooper; I have no idea what their status/cirriculum is). Frankly, I would be over the moon if the public elementarys around here started this program.

The Cunae School, located on Gosling, just south of Creekside Village is working on getting their certification for the IBO program for elementary and middle school students. Klein Oak High School, about five minutes away from the Cunae School, but in the Klein ISD, not Conroe or Tomball, has been using the IBO program for senior high students for about two years now.

Edited November 12, 2007 by pineda

[bachanon]

Many thanks for all the passionate responses.

As to the education issue...for me at least, there are a number of other factors that contribute to a well rounded school experience. While I do think that teaching the test is deplorable, most if not all public schools do it. Unfortunately, I am just a border-line blue collar single dad raising two kids....no John Cooper in our future. With that said, I think the environment a child is educated in is on the same level as many other factors such as parental involvement and teacher dedication to education. While I haven't experienced it myself, I think it is safe to say that, considering 2 schools with exactly the same educators/staff/curriculum, my kids would be better served by a campus that offers more current technology, safer modern building and some of the other trappings of a more financially sound ISD. I went to school in one of those myself and much preferred it over some of the other schools in the city (Fort Worth). That's all I have to say about that. Except that I went to Lamar for a brief period in the 90's and they really had some great programs back then.

I was actually surprised to hear that it takes 15 minutes to get to the highway from Alden Bridge....it doesn't look that far on the map. LOL

I am actually leaning more towards Shenandoah because it looks like I can get more house for the money, the city government is established and it

[Native1]

The Cunae School, located on Gosling, just south of Creekside Village is working on getting their certification for the IBO program for elementary and middle school students. Klein Oak High School, about five minutes away from the Cunae School, but in the Klein ISD, not Conroe or Tomball, has been using the IBO program for senior high students for about two years now.

I was thinking about Esprit International School:

http://www.espritinternationalschool.com/international.html

[Native1]

What is the difference between IB & AP? I understand the history and concept of IB, but how is it different from AP courses?

[VicMan]

What is the difference between IB & AP? I understand the history and concept of IB, but how is it different from AP courses?

AP is from an American organization, the College Board. IB is from a Swiss organization called the IBO.

[pineda]

Wow, I expected a much more extensive answer from you, Vic!

This is my opinion only:

A.P. is a well-known and accepted program for advanced students in the United States.

I.B. is more of a global standard for education, great for students who live abroad and come to the United States to continue their education. It works seamlessly, globally.

For a while, it appeared to some observers that the I.B. was gaining in favor and popularity, especially in the State of Florida. Universities were accepting the I.B. diploma.

Then, within the last few years, there seems to have been a shift. Schools are not as enamored with the program, it's pretty expensive, and sometimes the exorbitant cost and time involved do not match the results expected. It's a program geared towards a very small segment of the student population, and at a time when schools are increasingly having to re-evaluate their budgetary needs due to increasing student populations, it benefits very few students.

Some universities are revising their acceptance of the I.B. diploma or not giving as much, if any, credit for the diploma. Time will tell what happens with the program.

The A.P. program still appears to be the "gold standard" for most high school students.

[KatieDidIt]

Wow, I expected a much more extensive answer from you, Vic!

This is my opinion only:

A.P. is a well-known and accepted program for advanced students in the United States.

I.B. is more of a global standard for education, great for students who live abroad and come to the United States to continue their education. It works seamlessly, globally.

For a while, it appeared to some observers that the I.B. was gaining in favor and popularity, especially in the State of Florida. Universities were accepting the I.B. diploma.

Then, within the last few years, there seems to have been a shift. Schools are not as enamored with the program, it's pretty expensive, and sometimes the exorbitant cost and time involved do not match the results expected. It's a program geared towards a very small segment of the student population, and at a time when schools are increasingly having to re-evaluate their budgetary needs due to increasing student populations, it benefits very few students.

Some universities are revising their acceptance of the I.B. diploma or not giving as much, if any, credit for the diploma. Time will tell what happens with the program.

The A.P. program still appears to be the "gold standard" for most high school students.

I've heard that many universities are starting not to accept AP credits because kids are coming in horribly ill-prepared. But, I guess you might be slightly more prepared from the AP classes, but just won't get college credit. It was great when I was applying to SMU, I basically tested out of a semester of college due to college credits earned in HS. However, back in those days most kids could get out in 4 years....not 5 or 6 like today.