Forget light rail; when will Metro improve BUS service

[MetroMogul]

It took me 20 minutes; TWENTY minutes to get from the UH main campus to HCC Central on Holman and San Jacinto. Why? Because Metro padded the schedule of the 42 - Holman Crosstown with extra time so the speedy hybrid buses Metro has been promoting and running on the route regularly see break neck speeds of 10-20mph. Today, the bus was going less than TEN MPH! And the driver took a nice five minute break at Holman and Dowling and we still arrived to HCC Central one minute early. Look; I don't know if Metro is trying to build some sort of depressing atmosphere by having these buses drive slowly through neighborhoods that economics left behind, but it shouldn't take 20 minutes to get to a destination that takes less than half that time otherwise. Metro will never be a viable transportation alternative if they continue like this. They have padded so many of their schedules that riding the bus is a cumbersome, brain melting expererience. The late, great RTS buses of the 80s and 90s were allowed to at least travel at the speed limit despite their antiquated (by Metro's standards) diesel technology.

Come on Metro; you guys are better than this.

[musicman]

you should send your comment to city council. many of them forward the comments on and you'll get an actual response. their emails are of the format FIRSTNAME.LASTNAME@cityofhouston.net

[kylejack]

It took me 20 minutes; TWENTY minutes to get from the UH main campus to HCC Central on Holman and San Jacinto. Why? Because Metro padded the schedule of the 42 - Holman Crosstown with extra time so the speedy hybrid buses Metro has been promoting and running on the route regularly see break neck speeds of 10-20mph. Today, the bus was going less than TEN MPH! And the driver took a nice five minute break at Holman and Dowling and we still arrived to HCC Central one minute early. Look; I don't know if Metro is trying to build some sort of depressing atmosphere by having these buses drive slowly through neighborhoods that economics left behind, but it shouldn't take 20 minutes to get to a destination that takes less than half that time otherwise. Metro will never be a viable transportation alternative if they continue like this. They have padded so many of their schedules that riding the bus is a cumbersome, brain melting expererience. The late, great RTS buses of the 80s and 90s were allowed to at least travel at the speed limit despite their antiquated (by Metro's standards) diesel technology.

Come on Metro; you guys are better than this.

Google Maps reports about the same drive time (14 min; Metro schedule is 17 minutes for that segment. You're reporting 16 minute travel time [scheduled time minus one minute]). Extra drive time is padded in to account for traffic and weather variances. The bus can't just cruise to its destination...it has to be at its stops when it says it will be at its stops.

[MetroMogul]

Metro schedule is 20 minutes for that segment and you can damn sure do it in less than 16 minutes by car.

[WesternGulf]

Metro schedule is 20 minutes for that segment and you can damn sure do it in less than 16 minutes by car.

You can get anywhere in any city by car quicker than a bus. Considering buses have bus stops every two or three blocks I am not surprised a trip from U of H to the center of Midtown BY STREET would take 20 minutes. As far as slow buses, I feel your pain. I have to lay off of METRO for a while myself.

[RedScare]

I was hoping this silly thread would have disappeared by now, but since it is still around on page 1, I might as well post what I saw within a minute of its creation yesterday.

Yes, busses by their definition must stop every couple of blocks to pick up and drop off riders. This route is in a transit dependent neighborhood, meaning it cannot skip as many stops as some of the other routes. Even with these realities, the poster fails to mention that 20 minutes is the trip time during evening rush hour. At different times during the day the trip is 18 minutes, 16 minutes, aand after evening rush hour, 14 minutes. It should surprise no one that during periods of high usage, the busses run slower. I have also found during my 30 years in Houston that trips in my car during rush hour tend to take longer than non-rush hour. However, I have not sued Toyota over this problem.

On the bright side, the poster noted that the bus arrived 1 minute early, meaning that riders can feel comfortable that the route times are accurate, even if a bit slow for his taste.

[MetroMogul]

I was hoping this silly thread would have disappeared by now, but since it is still around on page 1, I might as well post what I saw within a minute of its creation yesterday.

Yes, busses by their definition must stop every couple of blocks to pick up and drop off riders. This route is in a transit dependent neighborhood, meaning it cannot skip as many stops as some of the other routes. Even with these realities, the poster fails to mention that 20 minutes is the trip time during evening rush hour. At different times during the day the trip is 18 minutes, 16 minutes, aand after evening rush hour, 14 minutes. It should surprise no one that during periods of high usage, the busses run slower. I have also found during my 30 years in Houston that trips in my car during rush hour tend to take longer than non-rush hour. However, I have not sued Toyota over this problem.

On the bright side, the poster noted that the bus arrived 1 minute early, meaning that riders can feel comfortable that the route times are accurate, even if a bit slow for his taste.

I suppose reading comprehension is new to this forum. The 42 - Holman Crosstown has a schedule that's padded with extra time that's not needed. Nine out of ten Holman trips run nearly empty, including the 5:21pm trip. There were no more than five people on that bus at once for the duration of the trip. The bus ran at an average speed of 7mph along Holman. It stopped at numerous GREEN lights and took a five minute break at Dowling St. and still arrived one minute early. You see nothing wrong with that? That's great the bus runs that length in 14 minutes during the evenings, it should run like that all day as it is entirely possible.

[MetroMogul]

And I'm not a freaking moron. Anyone with a chimp's brain can realize that yes, car's do travel faster than buses. That's not news guys, but thanks for the relay! My gripe is that Metro has a chance to improve bus service by reducing the trip time instead of having buses operate at bike speed down semi busy streets! Crazy that I'd like better bus service. I guess us lowly bus scum just better deal with the bones we're thrown, huh?

[ricco67]

And I'm not a freaking moron. Anyone with a chimp's brain can realize that yes, car's do travel faster than buses. That's not news guys, but thanks for the relay! My gripe is that Metro has a chance to improve bus service by reducing the trip time instead of having buses operate at bike speed down semi busy streets! Crazy that I'd like better bus service. I guess us lowly bus scum just better deal with the bones we're thrown, huh?

What you fail to comprehend is Red is trying to say is that metro has a schedule to keep. If you have busses running willy nilly, you would wind up with buses bunched up at certain points of the day.

Look at it this way: Pick an air carrier (airlines are a bad example, but what can you do, eh?). It could fly as quickly as it can (tail wind, whatever) and get there AHEAD of schedule. Got it?

Great.

The plane lands at 10:00am (it was due at 10:15, scheduled to take off at 11am). They shoo everyone off the plane, gas her up, clean her up, quickly load all the passangers and leave at 10:50. You're the poor schmuck who is HOPING to catch that flight to get out early. Guess what. You're hosed.

That plane arrives at it's destination at say 3:15 (it was due at 4pm), the same thing happens. It's a domino effect. Hopefully you'll get it now.

You have to go by a schedule that is expected, by the customers, because that way you can prepare to arrive at a scheduled time or be able to make a connecting route. Metro has supervisors that note which buses show up at what times and adjust the other buses accordingly.

Sorry, I'm not as eloquent as Red, but hopefully my rather pedestrian example might be low enough for you to understand.

[MetroMogul]

What you fail to comprehend is Red is trying to say is that metro has a schedule to keep. If you have busses running willy nilly, you would wind up with buses bunched up at certain points of the day.

Look at it this way: Pick an air carrier (airlines are a bad example, but what can you do, eh?). It could fly as quickly as it can (tail wind, whatever) and get there AHEAD of schedule. Got it?

Great.

The plane lands at 10:00am (it was due at 10:15, scheduled to take off at 11am). They shoo everyone off the plane, gas her up, clean her up, quickly load all the passangers and leave at 10:50. You're the poor schmuck who is HOPING to catch that flight to get out early. Guess what. You're hosed.

That plane arrives at it's destination at say 3:15 (it was due at 4pm), the same thing happens. It's a domino effect. Hopefully you'll get it now.

You have to go by a schedule that is expected, by the customers, because that way you can prepare to arrive at a scheduled time or be able to make a connecting route. Metro has supervisors that note which buses show up at what times and adjust the other buses accordingly.

Sorry, I'm not as eloquent as Red, but hopefully my rather pedestrian example might be low enough for you to understand.

Maybe I should spell It out so you can understand.....

I DO NOT WANT BUSES TO RUN EARLY~! I REPEAT, I DO NOT WANT BUSES TO RUN EARLY~! I WANT METRO TO ADJUST THE SCHEDULE SO THE BUSES CAN STAY AT THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT AND NOT IDLE AT GREEN LIGHTS~! THE DEMAND IS NOT THERE FOR THE SERVICE TO BE THIS SLOW~! I REPEAT, THE DEMAND IS NOT THERE FOR THE SERVICE TO BE THIS SLOW~! METRO DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH RIDERSHIP ON THE 42 FOR THE SCHEDULE TO BE EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT~! RIDERSHIP IS LOW ENOUGH TO ADJUST THE TRIP TIMES FOR FASTER SERVICE~! RIDERSHIP IS LOW ENOUGH FOR METRO TO ADJUST TRIP TIMES FOR FASTER SERVICE~!

Jesus, does it take 10,000 posts for you all to understand that I was posting a random thought on how it'd be nice for Metro to run faster service on the 42 - Holman so the drivers won't have to take great pains not to run hot and leave customers behind? I understand Metro has a schedule to keep, but when the schedule is no longer relevant to ridership, you have to ADJUST, say it with me people, ADJUST, to reflect the changes for better or worse. Metro can run faster service on the 42, and numerous other routes, to make it's bus system (one you fools obviously have little to no knowledge of, or maybe just the ability to read and comprehend) a viable alternative to the personal vehicle.

Goodness, I've never seen so many smug comments from people who couldn't even outhink a retarded amoeba.

[Guest Marty]

Chill man... It's more enjoyable if you can make your point without the outburst.

[MetroMogul]

Chill man... It's more enjoyable if you can make your point without the outburst.

I'd love to. But when you have two or more people hurling smarmy remarks because for whatever reason they cannot grasp what you are trying to convey, it becomes extremely annoying. I thought this was a forum of adults, but I see people like to put on their genius caps and play "smart" at times. Sometimes you have to resort to base tactics to get your point across. Hopefully now they'll understand I want an improved schedule on the 42 instead of no schedule as they thought, for whatever reason.

[Guest Marty]

Use your brain not your emotion's, but I could care less. When you get to know the people on here you will know what I am talking about.

enjoy life while you can....

[MetroMogul]

You're right. I kind of saw how this place was when I first started posting. Next time I'll just remember the source.

[Guest Marty]

You're right. I kind of saw how this place was when I first started posting. Next time I'll just remember the source.

You just remember that if you think sunflower seeds are addicting you have not seen nothing yet....

[ToryGattis]

Christof of the Intermodality blog and I had a short email conversation about this we thought we'd pass along, for what it's worth:

Christof: This case seems like a ridiculous extreme, but there is a fundamental tradeoff here: would you rather have a fast trip where the bus is often late because of the unpredictability of traffic, or a slow trip where the bus is always on time? In a Houston summer, at a bus stop without a shelter, people might prefer the latter. Two ways to get beyond that: reserved guideway (LRT or BRT) or buses so frequent that schedules are irrelevant. The former option also adds speed and makes trip times more predictable; the latter merely means you won't need to wait long no matter how the bus is running.

Tory: I can see that in general, but is traffic really that much of an issue between UH and HCC? It seems like the schedules should be tight in areas that don't have congestion issues. If a route has congestion/unpredictability along a portion of it, put the timeout/pad at the end of the congested portion, so the next uncongested segment can run fast and tight.

Christof: I agree. That's why I said this case seems like an extreme. METRO's relatively new GPS technology should let them collect much more detailed information on the actual running times of buses and adjust schedules accordingly, figuring out where and when the unpredictability is. That could also lead to route structures which minimize those problems.

[wakester]

I think Metro is slowly going through the different routes and making adjustments to the times. I know that every time they publish the route changes there are always some that have been adjusted to reflect the current environment. I could also be that the day you rode was a light traffic day. As far as the driver driving slow, the driver is probably just trying to stay on schedule (they have a little console that tells them if they are ahead or behind schedule). That is nice of the driver, I have ridden on buses where the driver is flying so that he can get to the end of the route early and take a nice break.

[MetroMogul]

I think Metro is slowly going through the different routes and making adjustments to the times. I know that every time they publish the route changes there are always some that have been adjusted to reflect the current environment. I could also be that the day you rode was a light traffic day. As far as the driver driving slow, the driver is probably just trying to stay on schedule (they have a little console that tells them if they are ahead or behind schedule). That is nice of the driver, I have ridden on buses where the driver is flying so that he can get to the end of the route early and take a nice break.

Believe me, I definitely understand the driver was struggling to stay on schedule. It's just extremely hard because the ridership is so light. I just got off the 42 and we were two minutes early, even with traveling 10mph on Holman and having a load of people to pick up on Holman @ Live Oak. Hopefully Metro will look at the ridership and adjust the schedule for quicker trips. It took 17 minutes today instead of 20.

Christof of the Intermodality blog and I had a short email conversation about this we thought we'd pass along, for what it's worth:Christof: This case seems like a ridiculous extreme, but there is a fundamental tradeoff here: would you rather have a fast trip where the bus is often late because of the unpredictability of traffic, or a slow trip where the bus is always on time? In a Houston summer, at a bus stop without a shelter, people might prefer the latter. Two ways to get beyond that: reserved guideway (LRT or BRT) or buses so frequent that schedules are irrelevant. The former option also adds speed and makes trip times more predictable; the latter merely means you won't need to wait long no matter how the bus is running. Tory: I can see that in general, but is traffic really that much of an issue between UH and HCC? It seems like the schedules should be tight in areas that don't have congestion issues. If a route has congestion/unpredictability along a portion of it, put the timeout/pad at the end of the congested portion, so the next uncongested segment can run fast and tight.Christof: I agree. That's why I said this case seems like an extreme. METRO's relatively new GPS technology should let them collect much more detailed information on the actual running times of buses and adjust schedules accordingly, figuring out where and when the unpredictability is. That could also lead to route structures which minimize those problems.

Thanks, very interesting indeed. I've been riding the 42 for a number of years and it's always been this way. Metro reduced the frequency from 15 to 18 minutes a couple of years ago and I suppose they figured the ridership would adjust itself. It's time to take another look at that route and a few others that have this same problem.

[Poppahop]

Yeah, I know how you feel. Tonight I got on the Bellaire bus at Med Center Transit Center, and we waited FIVE MINUTES before we left the station. I mean we just sat there, doing nothing.

The driver was on there. Other passengers were on there. Most importantly, I WAS ON THERE. Doesn't Metro KNOW WHO I AM?

Who cares about their stupid schedules and all that riff-raff that expects a bus to come by at a certain time? Metro is supposed to be about ME. That's why it starts with M-E.

[MetroMogul]

Yeah, I know how you feel. Tonight I got on the Bellaire bus at Med Center Transit Center, and we waited FIVE MINUTES before we left the station. I mean we just sat there, doing nothing.

The driver was on there. Other passengers were on there. Most importantly, I WAS ON THERE. Doesn't Metro KNOW WHO I AM?

Who cares about their stupid schedules and all that riff-raff that expects a bus to come by at a certain time? Metro is supposed to be about ME. That's why it starts with M-E.

Well, next time just tell the driver about your obvious mental handicap and they'll call a special First Transit paravan for you and you'll be on your way!

[Parrothead]

Metro blows. You absolutely cannot rely on it to get you anywhere on time. Hubby has been late many a time either going to or coming from work because the 131 Memorial Express can't seem to get their act together. They are also notorious for making schedule changes (like removing a stop altogether) without notifying anyone, in writing, in person, or online.

It's frustrating; DH is going back to the Addicks 298 as soon as that segment of I-10 is complete.

[MetroMogul]

Metro blows. You absolutely cannot rely on it to get you anywhere on time. Hubby has been late many a time either going to or coming from work because the 131 Memorial Express can't seem to get their act together. They are also notorious for making schedule changes (like removing a stop altogether) without notifying anyone, in writing, in person, or online.

It's frustrating; DH is going back to the Addicks 298 as soon as that segment of I-10 is complete.

Yes, but according to the mentality of these folk, you better damned well take it instead of wanting improvements when warranted.

[Jax]

Metro blows. You absolutely cannot rely on it to get you anywhere on time. Hubby has been late many a time either going to or coming from work because the 131 Memorial Express can't seem to get their act together. They are also notorious for making schedule changes (like removing a stop altogether) without notifying anyone, in writing, in person, or online.

It's frustrating; DH is going back to the Addicks 298 as soon as that segment of I-10 is complete.

Yeah I've had them completely skip a block where I was waiting for a bus too! No idea why... either the driver didn't see me (or pretended not to see me), or they made some random schedule change without saying anything. I had to wait 30 minutes or so for the next one. That's why I try to avoid the busses and stick with the rail.

[midtownsteve]

Yeah I've had them completely skip a block where I was waiting for a bus too! No idea why... either the driver didn't see me (or pretended not to see me), or they made some random schedule change without saying anything. I had to wait 30 minutes or so for the next one. That's why I try to avoid the busses and stick with the rail.

Last year when I worked downtown I almost rode the bus one day when the car was in the shop. I waited forever at a bus stop downtown and when it finally arrived I had already set off on foot.

I ended up beating the bus home! (16 blocks south of my downtown stop)

[Parrothead]

Jax, that has happened to DH too. I don't get it. It's not like the bus was full.

[houstonmacbro]

I was hoping this silly thread would have disappeared by now, but since it is still around on page 1, I might as well post what I saw within a minute of its creation yesterday.

Yes, busses by their definition must stop every couple of blocks to pick up and drop off riders. This route is in a transit dependent neighborhood, meaning it cannot skip as many stops as some of the other routes. Even with these realities, the poster fails to mention that 20 minutes is the trip time during evening rush hour. At different times during the day the trip is 18 minutes, 16 minutes, aand after evening rush hour, 14 minutes. It should surprise no one that during periods of high usage, the busses run slower. I have also found during my 30 years in Houston that trips in my car during rush hour tend to take longer than non-rush hour. However, I have not sued Toyota over this problem.

On the bright side, the poster noted that the bus arrived 1 minute early, meaning that riders can feel comfortable that the route times are accurate, even if a bit slow for his taste.

When I lived in DC there were several major roads that had express buses. They would run from the suburbs and make stops at major intersections along the way, but would not stop at every stop.

Does Houston Metro have anything like this?

I could see it as being a major draw for heavy (or future heavy) transit lines.

[desirous]

Bus service is just fine. Express buses, at least. I make better time between Chase Tower and Hillcroft TC by express bus than by car. The #82 Westheimer, however, takes an hour.