Katy ISD At It Again

[hbcu]

KATY, Texas - Writing "I love Alex" on a school gymnasium wall brought a 12-year-old the same punishment as if she had made terrorist threats.

The Katy Independent School District rated the message, written with a baby blue marker by sixth-grader Shelby Sendelbach, as a Level 4 infraction _ the same as for threats, drug possession and assault.

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/west...ticleid=1010088

[charris911]

KATY, Texas - Writing "I love Alex" on a school gymnasium wall brought a 12-year-old the same punishment as if she had made terrorist threats.

The Katy Independent School District rated the message, written with a baby blue marker by sixth-grader Shelby Sendelbach, as a Level 4 infraction _ the same as for threats, drug possession and assault.

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/west...ticleid=1010088

I bet she will not deface school property with permanent ink again. Use to it was a big deal to destroy other people's property, I hope Katy ISD sticks with it. This is why KISD is a better school district, than others. Bet HISD or North Forest ISD does not have this type of punishment, that would be why their schools look like they do.

[Erick]

I bet she will not deface school property with permanent ink again. Use to it was a big deal to destroy other people's property, I hope Katy ISD sticks with it. This is why KISD is a better school district, than others. Bet HISD or North Forest ISD does not have this type of punishment, that would be why their schools look like they do.

You are an idiot. You ought to consider applying for a job at KISD - with your attitude you would fit right in. This punishment does not fit the crime and ONCE AGAIN no one is using common sense.

[TJones]

Let's hold off on the name calling please, Erick. This charis person just doesn't have ALL the facts. The graffitti, and YES it is graffitti, was written on a wall that has about 2000 other pieces of graffitti from over the years. The whole thing is about 1 inch high and 5 to six inches long. The punishment certainly DOES NOT fit the crime, IMHO. Apparently she had help with the artwork of the heart also. Another one of her friends had signed her name to a seperate piece of graffitti and that is how they actually got "caught". Her friend ratted out Shelby, the girl that has been sent to SAC, and the girl that ratted Shelby out seems to be getting off scott-free, at least I haven't heard whether Shelby's friends have suffered the same fate.

Since this is getting alot of press, I am sure a lesser sentence will be handed down, if the young lady had written some gangsigns or wrote offensive slurs on the wall, I can see her getting the book thrown at her, but come on. On second thought though, maybe the schoolboard doesn't like this "ALEX" character and find him offensive.

[charris911]

Sorry there where other people involved. Sorry there was other graffitti that she did not write. Does that mean that she should not be punished? Its like speeding, not everyone gets caught. The punishments for students are not the same, because parents have "complained" that punishment should be based on the individual, not the act. That is what has happened. I am sure "Alex" is an upstanding young man, hopefully she will not destroy public property again.

[jdbaker]

Sorry there where other people involved. Sorry there was other graffitti that she did not write. Does that mean that she should not be punished? Its like speeding, not everyone gets caught. The punishments for students are not the same, because parents have "complained" that punishment should be based on the individual, not the act. That is what has happened. I am sure "Alex" is an upstanding young man, hopefully she will not destroy public property again.

Now can we call Charris911 an idiot?

[TJones]

Sorry there where other people involved. Sorry there was other graffitti that she did not write. Does that mean that she should not be punished? Its like speeding, not everyone gets caught. The punishments for students are not the same, because parents have "complained" that punishment should be based on the individual, not the act. That is what has happened. I am sure "Alex" is an upstanding young man, hopefully she will not destroy public property again.

How many children do you have charris ? Nobody is saying she shouldn't be punished, let's make the puishment fit the crime though, don't you agree ? I'll use your "speeding" analogy. If YOU are speeding 5 to 7 mph over the speed limit in a school zone, a minimum fine should be imposed, are you with me so far charris ? Do you agree? Now take the same school zone and have some maniac driving 50 to 60 mph over the speed limit filled with ROAD RAGE, should he/she recieve the minimum fine as you just got or should his/her penalty be a little harsher ?

btw, point of order, you can't "destroy" someone else's property if it is already in that condition. i.e. the wall miss Shelby was contributing on. It was NOT a pristine wall, it already had years of history on it.

[charris911]

TJONES, I have two children in KISD. I went to KISD schools from kindergarten thru high school, so did my wife, second generation Katy resident.

Do you know the students "background"? This a very good expample of why I wish KISD had ZERO TOLERANCE! Then everyone would be punished the same, but since there is not ZERO TOLERANCE in KISD, the punishment is molded based on the student.

[pm91]

i hate kisd. the whole district is corrupted and they over exaggerate things too. this past april a kid showed up at katy high with a gun and yet it never made the news or was reported...

[musicman]

Do you know the students "background"? This a very good expample of why I wish KISD had ZERO TOLERANCE! Then everyone would be punished the same, but since there is not ZERO TOLERANCE in KISD, the punishment is molded based on the student.

looks like Katy is now in discussions with the family. the superintendent has been in contact with the family which presented information that allows punishments to vary to as low as 1 hr. the child has no history of problems per the family and school district. evidently the superintendent will be studying the information and contact the family later this week.

Charris, if punishment is molded based on the student, what do you feel punishment should be?

[KinkaidAlum]

I bet she will not deface school property with permanent ink again. Use to it was a big deal to destroy other people's property, I hope Katy ISD sticks with it. This is why KISD is a better school district, than others. Bet HISD or North Forest ISD does not have this type of punishment, that would be why their schools look like they do.

HISD is doing pretty well at the moment considering that SIX high schools and one city charter school made the list of the nation's 1300 best public schools. That number is higher than the total you get if you add the schools from the Katy, Fort Bend, Klein, Tomball, Spring, Cy-Fair, Waller, Alief, Pearland, Alvin, Brazosport, Conroe, Montgomery, Galveston, Texas City, Pasadena, Deer Park, Galena Park, Sheldon, Huffman, Dickinson, and Santa Fe school districts together!

Close-in schools did really well when you consider that Memorial and Stratford also made the list.

So much for the myth of superior schools in the burbs...

[charris911]

looks like Katy is now in discussions with the family. the superintendent has been in contact with the family which presented information that allows punishments to vary to as low as 1 hr. the child has no history of problems per the family and school district. evidently the superintendent will be studying the information and contact the family later this week.

Charris, if punishment is molded based on the student, what do you feel punishment should be?

I do not know, the entire situation, to know the punishment, I will agree with the outcome.

But I am glad to see that the system of appeal from the school's decision, through the central office...works. If the family disagrees with the superintendent, then they may go to the board of trustees. Good Luck to them. I am glad this discussion is much more lively then the peanut butter thread.

Congrats HISD, I hope they get the message out. More people will choose to live close to their jobs.

[musicman]

But I am glad to see that the system of appeal from the school's decision, through the central office...works. If the family disagrees with the superintendent, then they may go to the board of trustees. Good Luck to them.

i'm not sure whether the system worked but the publicity from the news and forums such is what made the superintendent look twice. bad publicity will get you every time.

[charris911]

Hopefully the school district will do what is right for the student.

[westguy76]

TJONES, I have two children in KISD. I went to KISD schools from kindergarten thru high school, so did my wife, second generation Katy resident.

Do you know the students "background"? This a very good expample of why I wish KISD had ZERO TOLERANCE! Then everyone would be punished the same, but since there is not ZERO TOLERANCE in KISD, the punishment is molded based on the student.

How is this a good example of Zero Tolerance.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. you even wrote this later...

"Hopefully the school district will do what is right for the student."

Do you know what zero tolerance is?

[westguy76]

HISD is doing pretty well at the moment considering that SIX high schools and one city charter school made the list of the nation's 1300 best public schools. That number is higher than the total you get if you add the schools from the Katy, Fort Bend, Klein, Tomball, Spring, Cy-Fair, Waller, Alief, Pearland, Alvin, Brazosport, Conroe, Montgomery, Galveston, Texas City, Pasadena, Deer Park, Galena Park, Sheldon, Huffman, Dickinson, and Santa Fe school districts together!

Close-in schools did really well when you consider that Memorial and Stratford also made the list.

So much for the myth of superior schools in the burbs...

If I had to guess, and I do, I would think that there at least 2 schools on that list from KISD. You are bringing all of southeast Texas' school districts into the equation to make a point that does not hold water. people either pick one suburb to live in and send there kids too or they live in HISd and send there kids there.

[TJones]

TJONES, I have two children in KISD. I went to KISD schools from kindergarten thru high school, so did my wife, second generation Katy resident.

Do you know the students "background"? This a very good expample of why I wish KISD had ZERO TOLERANCE! Then everyone would be punished the same, but since there is not ZERO TOLERANCE in KISD, the punishment is molded based on the student.

As a matter of fact I do know the background. She was a first time offender apparently, and not a bad student, at least to hear her father tell it. Punishments in a junior high school setting, SHOULD be molded to the student. It seems you would want a gestapo type regime in the katy school district. I pay my KATY ISD taxes just like you chief, and I have two children as well, and if my daughter wrote on a wall that was already covered in graffitti because the school was too lazy to throw some friggin paint on it, I would be wringing the principals neck for sending my child to SAC, for such a miniscule offense. If my daughter had written MS13, on the same wall, I would have a different opinion from her writing that she "Loves Johnny!" with a heart around it, no bigger than the palm of my hand. Go get some Prozac and chill out a bit. I am almost 100% positive that little miss Shelby isn't going around throwing up gang signs and spray painting "GY" all over the city, nor will she probably grow up to be such a person. I am sure you have done much worse in your heyday, and just never got caught.

[charris911]

How is this a good example of Zero Tolerance.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. you even wrote this later...

"Hopefully the school district will do what is right for the student."

Do you know what zero tolerance is?

Zero tolerance is a term used to describe a non-discretionary enforcement policy for the criminal law or informal rules. Under a system of zero tolerance, persons in positions of authority

[charris911]

As a matter of fact I do know the background. She was a first time offender apparently, and not a bad student, at least to hear her father tell it. Punishments in a junior high school setting, SHOULD be molded to the student. It seems you would want a gestapo type regime in the katy school district. I pay my KATY ISD taxes just like you chief, and I have two children as well, and if my daughter wrote on a wall that was already covered in graffitti because the school was too lazy to throw some friggin paint on it, I would be wringing the principals neck for sending my child to SAC, for such a miniscule offense. If my daughter had written MS13, on the same wall, I would have a different opinion from her writing that she "Loves Johnny!" with a heart around it, no bigger than the palm of my hand. Go get some Prozac and chill out a bit. I am almost 100% positive that little miss Shelby isn't going around throwing up gang signs and spray painting "GY" all over the city, nor will she probably grow up to be such a person. I am sure you have done much worse in your heyday, and just never got caught.

I am glad that you knowing the background, means what her father is saying. I will guarantee that things are not always roses (who's are). Since each offense is MOLDED to the student, some children catch the extreme end of the scale. She got a different punishment for a reason, that I am sure is between the school administration, parents and student. I am glad the district, does not publish our school-year records for all to view.

She may have a great record, but MAYBE SHE lied when caught or was disrespectful to the administrator...I dont know what happened...only the people involved know the details.

If the district policy is those that are caught writing on the walls is A-School, then that is the rule, sorry appeal the decision to the superintendent and school board. Everyone would be upset if people got different punishments for the same thing...OH that is what everyone wants, the punishment molded for the student. That is what happened.

Everyone (especially those with kids in school) should volunteer at their local school at least once or if your job schedule allows sign up to substitute teach. Its eye opening and a very rewarding experience.

[Erick]

You are a substitute teacher? That figures.

[Trae]

I am glad that you knowing the background, means what her father is saying. I will guarantee that things are not always roses (who's are). Since each offense is MOLDED to the student, some children catch the extreme end of the scale. She got a different punishment for a reason, that I am sure is between the school administration, parents and student. I am glad the district, does not publish our school-year records for all to view.

She may have a great record, but MAYBE SHE lied when caught or was disrespectful to the administrator...I dont know what happened...only the people involved know the details.

If the district policy is those that are caught writing on the walls is A-School, then that is the rule, sorry appeal the decision to the superintendent and school board. Everyone would be upset if people got different punishments for the same thing...OH that is what everyone wants, the punishment molded for the student. That is what happened.

Everyone (especially those with kids in school) should volunteer at their local school at least once or if your job schedule allows sign up to substitute teach. Its eye opening and a very rewarding experience.

No, no, no. Katy I.S.D. is messed up. I had a friend in 7th grade get sent to OAC because she drank out of a Coke bottle that someone had mixed with vodka. She didn't like the way the coke had tasted and gave it back to the girl. Her breath stank and a teacher reported her. She was never bad in class, and never got into any trouble. She still got sent to OAC for three months. They knew who put the vodka into the coke, but they didn't do anything to that girl (she never got sent to OAC). The admin didn't believe us. The girl who put the vodka into the coke would come to school high (she would play games and laugh with her pencil). That is why I never drink after someone.

Anyway, subs (most subs) are fun. They think they know it all and think we aren't sitting in our assigned seats in class. Just this year a sub wanted write me up because I said "____" (the F-word). I had to like bow down to her for she wouldn't. That same week we had a sub in Geometry. I was sitting on the floor and my cell phone fell out of my pocket. That sub saw it on the floor when I got up and ran across the room to try and take it up. "Excuse me Mr. Jackson, I am authorized to take that up if I see it out". Give me a break...

Are you like that charris?

[VicMan]

In the Houston ISD schools, most substitute teachers are known for being more lax than the regular teachers. Folks, this is a good thing, generally; the substitute should not trounce on rules held by teachers.

I actually distrusted substitutes in terms of turning in permission slips and classwork - typically, unless the sub asks for schoolwork, I waited until the teacher came back to school in order to turn in assignments and permission slips.

[charris911]

Trae, Thanks for your comment, on why you think Katy ISD is "messed up". Those where great examples...and I hope other readers can see what is going on in public schools.

Either you can back the personnel on the front-lines and their decisions or you can second guess everything that these people do. I am not saying that anyone is 100% right, but everyone questioning school administrators, because they "dont think something is fair", is childish, and any ADULT knows life is NOT FAIR. Understand you dont know all the facts.

Erik dont know what you mean when you say "You are a substitute teacher? That figures.", but no I do not substitute teach. I do respect the job they do, and its important one at that. It is very difficult, I would assume, to enter a class of over 20 people (young people), and attempt to maintain some resemblence of control, follow the lesson plans ALL the while not knowing any or few of the students names. I can understand why a seating chart is important...but they wouldnt know many faces either. But that is for a different thread.

[VicMan]

C. Harris, remember that public school district, as government institutions, are required to allow for due process, free speech, etc. " I am not saying that anyone is 100% right, but everyone questioning school administrators, because they "dont think something is fair", is childish, and any ADULT knows life is NOT FAIR. Understand you dont know all the facts." - But school administrators are required to decisions comparable to decisions of judges in court systems, etc.

For private schools, as they are not government institutions, they have more latitude in "fairness," controlling student speech rights, etc.

Trae, Thanks for your comment, on why you think Katy ISD is "messed up". Those where great examples...and I hope other readers can see what is going on in public schools.

Either you can back the personnel on the front-lines and their decisions or you can second guess everything that these people do. I am not saying that anyone is 100% right, but everyone questioning school administrators, because they "dont think something is fair", is childish, and any ADULT knows life is NOT FAIR. Understand you dont know all the facts.

Erik dont know what you mean when you say "You are a substitute teacher? That figures.", but no I do not substitute teach. I do respect the job they do, and its important one at that. It is very difficult, I would assume, to enter a class of over 20 people (young people), and attempt to maintain some resemblence of control, follow the lesson plans ALL the while not knowing any or few of the students names. I can understand why a seating chart is important...but they wouldnt know many faces either. But that is for a different thread.

[Trae]

Almost like this one private school that I heard of that was not allowing the kids to have My Spaces.

[TJones]

I was reading the latest about this story on the Chron.com, and I thought how TRUE this one Soldier's outlook about it is. I wanted to share it with you guys. I don't think it is his thoughts, mind you, I want to say I have read this elsewhere before, but he took the time to write it or paste it, so I pasted it from him.

"In_This_Twilight wrote:

SCHOOL 1976 vs 2006

Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking

lot with shotgun in gun rack.

1976 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car

and gets his shotgun to show Jack.

2006 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and

never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized

students and teachers.

_____

Scenario: Mark and Johnny get into a fistfight after school.

1976 - Crowd gathers. Johnny wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up

best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.

2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge

them with assault, both expelled even though Mark sta rted it.

_____

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1976 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal.

Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for

ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

_____

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.

1976 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2006 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear

nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation

is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and

Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curri culum. Pedro given

diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak

English.

_____

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts

them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.

1976 - Ants die.

2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic

terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers

confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed

to fly again.

_____

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee.

He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1976 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2006 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She

faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy"

[charris911]

C. Harris, remember that public school district, as government institutions, are required to allow for due process, free speech, etc. " I am not saying that anyone is 100% right, but everyone questioning school administrators, because they "dont think something is fair", is childish, and any ADULT knows life is NOT FAIR. Understand you dont know all the facts." - But school administrators are required to decisions comparable to decisions of judges in court systems, etc.

For private schools, as they are not government institutions, they have more latitude in "fairness," controlling student speech rights, etc.

"remember that public school district, as government institutions, are required to allow for due process, free speech, etc"

WRONG

"But school administrators are required to decisions comparable to decisions of judges in court systems, etc."

WRONG

I guarantee that government institutions test the limits of due process and free speech. The courts decide what is fact. School administrators are not comparable to court judges. That is a different branch of government.

[musicman]

C. Harris, remember that public school district, as government institutions, are required to allow for due process, free speech, etc. " I am not saying that anyone is 100% right, but everyone questioning school administrators, because they "dont think something is fair", is childish, and any ADULT knows life is NOT FAIR. Understand you dont know all the facts." - But school administrators are required to decisions comparable to decisions of judges in court systems, etc.

i don't believe school districts are required to allow free speech. there was a case in the last month or so where i believe the supreme court said that IF this "free speech" interrupts the teaching process then it isn't allowed.

[RedScare]

i don't believe school districts are required to allow free speech. there was a case in the last month or so where i believe the supreme court said that IF this "free speech" interrupts the teaching process then it isn't allowed.

Ah, yes. The infamous "Bong Hits For Jesus" case, wherein the Supreme Court set into law that conservatives have no sense of humor...or, maybe they just don't like Jesus...not sure which.

[VicMan]

Okay, time for me to whip out the book of Supreme Court decisions

Students are required to have due process before suspensions, one.

"Goss v. Lopez (1975)

Students are entitled to certain due process rights.

Nine students at an Ohio public school received 10-day suspensions for disruptive behavior without due process protections. The Supreme Court ruled for the students, saying that once the state provides an education for all of its citizens, it cannot deprive them of it without ensuring due process protections."

7th graders have less rights than adults, but that does not mean that they completely forsake their first amendment rights. That is supported by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District.

This: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getc...3&invol=503 - explains that opinion

Perhaps this is summarized by this statement from http://www.uscourts.gov/outreach/resources...udentcases.htm

"Students do not leave their rights at the schoolhouse door."

Yes, it is true that public schools can limit free speech when the said free speech is deemed inappropriate (I.E. "Bong Hits 4 Jesus"), but this does not mean that students forsake 1st amendment rights.

"remember that public school district, as government institutions, are required to allow for due process, free speech, etc"

WRONG

"But school administrators are required to decisions comparable to decisions of judges in court systems, etc."

WRONG

I guarantee that government institutions test the limits of due process and free speech. The courts decide what is fact. School administrators are not comparable to court judges. That is a different branch of government.