New Skyscrapers Planned?

[marc]

houston is plenty big.  bigger, smaller, same size as LA... what difference does it make.  it is still too darned hard to get around here.  you MUST drive everywhere.  when gasoline strikes $3/gallon and we'r estill pushing escalades, yukons, and hummers ... i pity to see the road rage.

why is it that houstonian's do not want mass transit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK...........first off..............Bruce...........You speak my language.

What the ???? does that mean? It means a couple of things.

1. WHY are we driving these monstrosities? I guess we (enjoy) paying this much for gas? Really? BUT...........if we want to talk politics.......... then let's start another (different) topic page.

2. About Houston........which I do love and adore.

OK.............OK...............let's get real people.

Houston will probably achieve a population (metro yes) of 6-7 million in about a decade. We all will still probably be around during that time. Let's take some sort of collective action...........if nothing else..........words..............and ideas.......... blah blah blah.......... what does Houston need?

How many out there really think 10 lane freeways are the answer?

How many relish the idea of some sort of mass transit line?

There are many deep thinkers here.......... get those ideas out there.......maybe our money grabbing.... limited thinking leaders will see this..........and do SOMETHING.

OK, I am done..........off of my soap box

On to the matter at hand...........

Houston- I want a 900' + skyscraper.............who will fund such an endeavor?

TRUMP? A very BIG residential down town or in the Galleria area?

Galleria- Make it like a cross between Austin's 6th Street/ London's Picadilly Circus and NY's Time's Square.......... Get it ON the MAP!!!!

Fill up West Houston with midrises..............midrises.............misrises.............

Revamp the Heights to her former glory...........Get metrosexuals to invest in upgraded Heights homes...........

Montrose?......... what to say? Are we pushing THEM out? or assimilating them?

The construction around the area leaves me wondering what Houston is considering. (Let me stop for a moment to say..........I don't give a sh** about the way the neighborhood is sexually speaking......... I just want to know how developers plan to progress with the area)

Medical Center?- We all know where Bio-medicine is going in the next decade. Houston will be right in the middle of all of it.............. Why not capitalize on the MDs who have no children......... and give 'em highrises aplenty............

Suburban families? ........... Sugar Land.........Woodlands...........Clear Lake........ Katy.........Atascocita.........Spring.......... Kingwood............. it is already in place for them...........

GET MASS TRANSIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't mean to be a LA tree hugger............. I just want to do what is practical for Houston.............

UrbaNerd help me on this one.........

is it not obvious?........... Galveston and Corpus Christi are our "gambling friendly" vacation sites........

places like Huntsville.........Centerville.......... areas around Texas A&M ...Waco Temple and Killean are our "hunters' playrounds" .........

HOUSTON is our cosmopolitan urbanized metropolis.............

Austin is our capital city.............

Dallas is our rival..........

San Antonio is our............. well................ what is she?.................

............... you see where this is going.....................................

HOUSTON is the place to be...........

Now and forever.

If someone..............has connections................make it a by-line.....

HOUSTON IS THE PLACE TO BE..............

m.

Let's make it happen.

[dalparadise]

Actually, not including Anchorage and other Alaskian cities, Houston is second in the continuous 48. Jacksonville is 1st with over 800 square miles, L.A. would be second but for somereason they don't count the Mountains while in houston they do count channel and the uninhabited land going East. Houston really can't expand anymore with Katy to the west, Richmond to the Southwest, water and League city to the South, Lake Jackson and swamp land to the South East. Baytown and water to the East and Spring, Cypress to the west and Conroe to the North. Really the only places for Houston to spread is to Sugar Land and the Woodlands. In fact when the Woodlands was created, it was created to one day be part of Houston as our most northern part of the City. That was the plan, much like Missouri city was in the past.

Rail would be great to have for people to move around in. No matter how big Houston gets there is still a CBD and other areas of Business, Galleria, TMC, Greenspoint, Greenway and the Edgewood Enclave/Westchase. To another degree the Woodlands, Sugerland and to a smaller degree the Northwest exchange.

I think there will be another outside of New York/ Chicago American tallest in downtown Houston, just the FAA will have to approve it and change the course  of one of the Hobby runways that includes downtown. that is why the Bank of the Southwest and the original continental tower was not done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The point I was making was to correct this notion that the Houston metro area was somehow on par, in terms of land area, with Los Angeles. It is nowhere near it. I understand that the city limits of Houston are larger than Los Angeles. That is a very simple concept to get. All of the LA basin, Sanfernando Valley, Inland Empire and Orange County runs together, though. there aren't the big empty spaces like between Houston and The Woodlands -- about 20 miles of pasture land.

In LA, going from Burbank to Anaheim -- about 40 miles, I think, is a constant urban drive, with a level of building and density on par with, say going from Montrose to West U. (which is about two miles, I think)

The "statistic" that Houston city limits is so huge in square miles is meaningless to me. When semipro tries to make it seem that LA is smaller in area, he exposes the fact that he's never seen LA. Why else would this "statistic" mean anything, except to make some bragging rights about the size of our sprawl? We do not sprawl as wide as LA (LA is, by my estimation) 5 times bigger. Wrap your head around that. 5 times bigger!

I'm thankful we're not as big. LA chokes on its sprawl and traffic. We should look at it as a cautionary tale. Take a two-hour drive down the 405 one day and you'll see what I mean. You'll get about 40 miles out of Century City and still be in "LA", (though not in the city limits anymore).

Take the same trip from The Galleria out I-10 and you will be in Austin. Now do you get how big the sprawl in LA is?

[kzseattle]

The point I was making was to correct this notion that the Houston metro area was somehow on par, in terms of land area, with Los Angeles. It is nowhere near it. I understand that the city limits of Houston are larger than Los Angeles. That is a very simple concept to get. All of the LA basin, Sanfernando Valley, Inland Empire and Orange County runs together,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think he was talking strictly about the area within city limits, which, because of aggressive annexation policy, is larger in Houston than LA. You are right that if we combine the contiguous populous regions outside city limit then greater LA area is much larger than Houston. However, then the question becomes how does one define the boundaries of a city? Should all connected populous regions be considered one city? Does the entire region between NY and DC, heck, between Boston and DC where one town or city runs into other make up one city?

I guess the original question asked by marc was whether Houston has enough land for growth. As we know and you pointed out as well, there is a lot of empty land within Houston's city limit and outside it limits there are no physical barrier to stop the sprawl (except for the water on the East). So yes there is a lot of empty land around and yes sprawl is going to get worse.

[N Judah]

I think he was talking strictly about the area within city limits, which, because of aggressive annexation policy, is larger in Houston than LA. You are right that if we combine the contiguous populous regions outside city limit then greater LA area is much larger than Houston. However, then the question becomes how does one define the boundaries of a city? Should all connected populous regions be considered one city? Does the entire region between NY and DC, heck, between Boston and DC where one town or city runs into other make up one city?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking about that question the other day, and how I think it makes it really difficult to measure the density of metro areas. For example, if you wanted to make a metro area seem less dense than it really is, you could simply include as part of the metro area a large rural county that just happens to be nearby, and presto, the overall density of the area (by your calculations) just decreased.

I wonder if that made any sense.

[new major on the block]

Houston has room for improvement and can be great, but I will still love it if it doesn't

[Gary]

Houston has room for improvement and can be great, but I will still love it if it doesn't

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Coming from LA I can tell you that it's much larger than Houston. That being said I hated the fact that you couldn't go anywhere including the mountains without being confronted by people. LA in and of itself is a cool town but the problem is it never never stops.

Although the rural areas around Houston arent as spectacular as those around LA at least here you can get away. In LA getting away is very difficult and a hell of a long drive.

Houston as a city is huge but my hope is that the sprawl will stop and the city will begin planning a better quality of life for those living in her city limits.

[marc]

Coming from LA I can tell you that it's much larger than Houston. That being said I hated the fact that you couldn't go anywhere including the mountains without being confronted by people. LA in and of itself is a cool town but the problem is it never never stops.

Although the rural areas around Houston arent as spectacular as those around LA at least here you can get away. In LA getting away is very difficult and a hell of a long drive.

Houston as a city is huge but my hope is that the sprawl will stop and the city will begin planning a better quality of life for those living in her city limits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a native Houstonian, and now living in LA....I certainly concur. LA is BIG......and not just BIG...........cumbersome with people: probably not "seemingly" as the likes of a NY or Chicago where the lack of space coupled with the high density of people probably make it seem like rats in a box. But, yes, to "get away" one has to drive at least 2-3 hours in any direction........... even Catalina Island is a bastion for overcrowding....especially during summer.

It is also my hope that the urban planners of Houston will start concentrating on those empty spaces within the city limits........develop them.............start thinking very vertically in the Downtown, Mid-Town and Up-Town areas........... make the inner loop area a sea of high and mid rises..............make the area between 610-SH Tollway about single family residences/ few apartments and condos............. make outside the SH tollway about large high income residences.........sprinkle parks, refuges, lakes, bike paths and the such through out.........have 4 or 5 really GREAT shopping complexes.......which include nice restaurants, mega-movie theatres and perhaps a hotel or two......... put some sort of awesome theme park around, perhaps either the Katy, Woodlands or Sugar Land area.......and voila! Maybe we would not be faced with a possible Houston metro area consisting of Galveston through Huntsville through Hempstead through Baytown.

Just my humble opinion, but alas........ I am not on any urban committee whatsoever.

m.

[Trophy Property]

As a native Houstonian, and now living in LA....I certainly concur.  LA is BIG......and not just BIG...........cumbersome with people: probably not "seemingly" as the likes of a NY or Chicago where the lack of space coupled with the high density of people probably make it seem like rats in a box.  But, yes, to "get away" one has to drive at least 2-3 hours in any direction........... even Catalina Island is a bastion for overcrowding....especially during summer.

It is also my hope that the urban planners of Houston will start concentrating on those empty spaces within the city limits........develop them.............start thinking very vertically in the Downtown, Mid-Town and Up-Town areas........... make the inner loop area a sea of high and mid rises..............make the area between 610-SH Tollway about single family residences/ few apartments and condos............. make outside the SH tollway about large high income residences.........sprinkle parks, refuges, lakes, bike paths and the such through out.........have 4 or 5 really GREAT shopping complexes.......which include nice restaurants, mega-movie theatres and perhaps a hotel or two.........  put some sort of awesome theme park around, perhaps either the Katy, Woodlands or Sugar Land area.......and voila! Maybe we would not be faced with a possible Houston metro area consisting of Galveston through Huntsville through Hempstead through Baytown.

Just my humble opinion, but alas........ I am not on any urban committee whatsoever. 

m.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Idea, but how do you accomplish any of that without zoning regulations and a master plan. Uggh. It seems amazing, but highly unlikely.

[marc]

Great Idea, but how do you accomplish any of that without zoning regulations and a master plan.    Uggh.  It seems amazing, but highly unlikely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I suppose that is kind of my point..........I wish city leaders would develop a master plan.........not just the willy nilly developing that seems to plague Houston. Like any sort of rhyme or reason is just an afterthought. I LOVE Houston and her potential (I am sure everyone has figured that out by my other posts).....I guess I just get so frustrated that we seem to be running after that proverbial freight train of progress instead of actually ever catching it......or better yet......planning for it to come and being.......oh my god...........ahead of our time. For instance, change zoning laws to fit some sort of schematic (similar to what I mentioned earlier)....

that is why I truly believe that before something on a massive scale is done, a person or persons who truly believe in Houston.......and truly LOVE Houston (like, it seems, many on these sites).....should be running the show.

BUT, then again........I think we all think we know best on how to rule the world....right?

Anyway.......just my thoughts.

m.

[Guest danax]

As a native Houstonian, and now living in LA....I certainly concur.  LA is BIG......and not just BIG...........cumbersome with people: probably not "seemingly" as the likes of a NY or Chicago where the lack of space coupled with the high density of people probably make it seem like rats in a box.  But, yes, to "get away" one has to drive at least 2-3 hours in any direction........... even Catalina Island is a bastion for overcrowding....especially during summer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right. I used to live in LA in the 80s and it is sprawling AND dense. I remember then that there were absolutely no empty lots anywhere. Since it's very similar demographically to us and ahead of us in traffic and population, we should study it to see where we're possibly headed and make necessary corrections, sort of like the Japanese taking our cars and tearing them apart then making their own superior ones.

[h-townrep]

I think he was talking strictly about the area within city limits, which, because of aggressive annexation policy, is larger in Houston than LA. You are right that if we combine the contiguous populous regions outside city limit then greater LA area is much larger than Houston. However, then the question becomes how does one define the boundaries of a city? Should all connected populous regions be considered one city? Does the entire region between NY and DC, heck, between Boston and DC where one town or city runs into other make up one city?

I guess the original question asked by marc was whether Houston has enough land for growth. As we know and you pointed out as well, there is a lot of empty land within Houston's city limit and outside it limits there are no physical barrier to stop the sprawl (except for the water on the East). So yes there is a lot of empty land around and yes sprawl is going to get worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I mentioned earlier in a post, the reason Houston can't really grow outside it's CITY boundries population is because of other cities. Cypress- Fairbanks is to big in size to be annexed as is Katy and other defined cities. Now Sugerland and the woodlands charter calls for it to come under annexation as does Missouri city, but neither of it's populations is included in the population of Houston. If, and this is if Houston included all areas that is affected and utilized by Houston into it's metro, we would be in the top 6 in metro polpulation instead of the top 10. We are 8th or 9th depending on which source you use. One says we are ahead of Miami and another said's we are behind. If you think about 5 times the land that would be over 3 thousand square miles and California is not that wide.

[h-townrep]

You're right. I used to live in LA in the 80s and it is sprawling AND dense. I remember then that there were absolutely no empty lots anywhere. Since it's very similar demographically to us and ahead of us in traffic and population, we should study it to see where we're possibly headed and make necessary corrections, sort of like the Japanese taking our cars and tearing them apart then making their own superior ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask the people near the mountains and by San Pedro, I've seen the lack of density there. One good thing about Houston is that we can get an influx of another 5 million people and all would be comfortable except on the freeways. I really wish mass transit would come but the politics of those d@mn republicans and mojney hungary councilmembers from back in the late 80's and early 90's caused it not to happen. If people had listen to Lee P. from get go we would have had it. I'm talking about when he was police cheif and had came over from Atlanta and was an important cog in starting it's rail system and knew it would have worked here.

[bruce_oneal]

Ask the people near the mountains and by San Pedro, I've seen the lack of density there. One good thing about Houston is that we can get an influx of another 5 million people and all would be comfortable except on the freeways. I really wish mass transit would come but the politics of those d@mn republicans and mojney hungary councilmembers from back in the late 80's and early 90's caused it not to happen. If people had listen to Lee P. from get go we would have had it. I'm talking about when he was police cheif and had came over from Atlanta and was an important cog in starting it's rail system and knew it would have worked here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

just what is the big gripe about mass transit? we really ought to start thinking about alternatives --or at least complements-- to the automobile.

[marc]

just what is the big gripe about mass transit?  we really ought to start thinking about alternatives --or at least complements-- to the automobile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i don't get it either, bruce.

again.........i welcome 5-6 million more people in Houston..... I think it will only help us become an internationally acclaimed megopolis........

i just don't see how Houston will succeed in "successful" growth unless it really starts tackling infrastructure issues................. ie...........MASS TRANSIT.....people.

Los Angelinos LOVE their cars too............but are embracing anything which will take the pressure off of the 2-3 hour commutes...........

AND........i would suggest doing a bit of math here............ multiply the time it takes you to go from home to work......(these are commuters i am talking to ) by at least 2.............that is the time you will spend in a car 5-10 years from now if growth continues without MASS TRANSIT alternatives..... and i am not even including the probable ten mile increase in the radius of Houston's metro area which will also be added to the mix in another decade or so.........

I really do think we need to think ahead........

m.

[bruce_oneal]

i don't get it either, bruce.

again.........i welcome 5-6 million more people in Houston..... I think it will only help us become an internationally acclaimed megopolis........

i just don't see how Houston will succeed in "successful" growth unless it really starts tackling infrastructure issues................. ie...........MASS TRANSIT.....people.

Los Angelinos LOVE their cars too............but are embracing anything which will take the pressure off of the 2-3 hour commutes...........

AND........i would suggest doing a bit of math here............ multiply the time it takes you to go from home to work......(these are commuters i am talking to ) by at least 2.............that is the time you will spend in a car 5-10 years from now if growth continues without MASS TRANSIT alternatives..... and i am not even including the probable ten mile increase in the radius of Houston's metro area which will also be added to the mix in another decade or so.........

I really do think we need to think ahead........

m.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, i can see houston going either 2 ways ... stumped in development and growth by its own success and lack of proper planning and implementations of those plans, or the gleaming city of the future.

i would love to see the latter.

[LTAWACS]

yes, i can see houston going either 2 ways ... stumped in development and growth by its own success and lack of proper planning and implementations of those plans, or the gleaming city of the future.

i would love to see the latter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks to our moronic city leaders, we're going down the drain.

[brijonmang]

why do you feel that we are "going down the drain?"

[Houston19514]

Thanks to our moronic city leaders, we're going down the drain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's postings like these that make this board so worthwhile...

Houston, one of the fastest-growing cities and metro areas in the country, is going down the drain... what in the world are you talking about???

[brijonmang]

Thank you 19514 i totally agree with you...have some pride in your city LTAWACS

[marc]

Thanks to our moronic city leaders, we're going down the drain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think, perhaps, what you mean, is that Houston "could" go down the drain if left to archaic thinking about transportation............

face it.......... area wise, it is a HUGE city............people wise........it is a HUGE city........culture wise.......it WANTS to be a HUGE city........

Houston has all the makings of a Third Coast (Golden Coast) Xanadu.........

I don't want a too little too late attitude to permeate around Houston or else, it could go down the drain..........but.......despite all of our criticisms.........Houston is a beautiful city of potential......let's not give up on her yet...............

She is NOTHING like the stale Northeastern cities like Cincinatti, Cleveland or Detroit.........nor is she bogged down due to zoning restrictions like Seattle and San Fran.......... some really good things are happening.......

it just takes time to adjust people's attitudes about certain things.

we all know that.

Texas is BIG (i know,.......duh, marc.........) but what I mean is that, like California, Texans are used to driving everywhere because of the "wide open spaces".......... and that can still occur.......... it is just, in these megopoli (like Houston and the D word).....we all have to start thinking alternatively about how to get from point A to point B while IN the city........... now.........on the open road........nothing beats your own wheels.

m.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[marc]

Marc.......I like your posts.......but the ".......".......are killing me!........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry about all the ""........ as a teacher i am bound to some sort of strict type of code which says that if it is not my own original thought........throw quotes around it........... many of my friends have the same complaint about me......

i will try to curtail them.......

thanks.

oh, and by the by........does anyonw know if that 40-42 storey building is going to be built around the Galleria area.....?

m.

[kzseattle]

  sorry about all the ""........ as a teacher i am bound to some sort of strict type of code which says that if it is not my own original thought........throw quotes around it........... many of my friends have the same complaint about me......

i will try to curtail them.......

thanks.

oh, and by the by........does anyonw know if that 40-42 storey building is going to be built around the Galleria area.....?

m.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think he was talking about those series of dots, not quotes, but thats my guess.

[bruce_oneal]

oh, and by the by........does anyonw know if that 40-42 storey building is going to be built around the Galleria area.....?

m.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

on a related note i travel the beltway quite frequently from westheimer to 59N. from the overpass you can see the entire city laid out ... downtown, medical center, reliant and astrodome area, galleria. in fact, it looks more like several cities as opposed to one big town.

if i did not know better, it seems like the galleria area is the new heart of construction. there are lots of skyscrapers (and not including the one you mentioned) that rival downtown's skyline.

[marc]

I think he was talking about those series of dots, not quotes, but thats my guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great.............no quotes...........AND no dots........come on!! give me something!!!

that is just my way of expressing a new thought on an otherwise impersonal medium. forgive me. otherwise........ each new thought gets a new paragraph , yada, yada, yada.

m.

[marc]

on a related note i travel the beltway quite frequently from westheimer to 59N.  from the overpass you can see the entire city laid out ... downtown, medical center, reliant and astrodome area, galleria.  in fact, it looks more like several cities as opposed to one big town.

if i did not know better, it seems like the galleria area is the new heart of construction.  there are lots of skyscrapers (and not including the one you mentioned) that rival downtown's skyline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool, any pix.? As you all have read i am banished, i mean living in LA right now. ........ so, unfortunately, i only get to see houston and austin only once or twice a year.......in fact........in two weeks i will be in houston taking pix. of these things everyone is talking about......i will try to post them for everyone, but please, bear with me, i am techologically an infant.

m.

[Gary]

Cool, any pix.?  As you all have read i am banished, i mean living in LA right now. ........ so, unfortunately, i only get to see houston and austin only once or twice a year.......in fact........in two weeks i will be in houston taking pix. of these things everyone is talking about......i will try to post them for everyone,  but please, bear with me, i am techologically an infant.

m. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Marc,

if your real brave try to take some shots from the new Westpark tollway (overpass) right as it enters 59 North. The view is awesome, and new.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[marc]

Please don't! That is way too dangerous a place for a shot of the city. Its not worth dying over (hate to sound dramatic, but I'm being serious - just look at all the scuff marks on either side of that ramp!).

Marc - it's the ........................ (dots) that get me. I was using quotations around the dots to highlight them! I hope your not offended - it was just an observation. Feel free to type however you want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not offended at all. Explanation is a few posts back.

It's true. I looked over some of my past stuff.............................. well, what can i say, you are right. It annoyed me too.

m.

( i just had to throw in some dots for fun )

[jdnn]

Well... mass transit isn't really ever going to work in Houston except maybe inside the loop. But for sure, it would be laughable to think that mass transit could be embraced among Houstonians within 50 years (unless if we adopt Dallas' style of rail system where stations would have small dense areas even in the suburbs so people can just hop off and shop, eat, live, etc). And that's the thing... ride a bus anywhere in Houston and tell me that the place you get off... if it's the place where you live, can you walk to a store and buy the things you want and or need? Or would you need to go more than 2 stops down to get that and then take it back to your apartment (again riding the bus). Transit doesn't really work if you have to take it more than once. Otherwise the trip might as well be taken by a car (and it would probably be more convenient since you won't have to wait for a bus in a bad weather). For Houston's mass transit to be a success, it needs to stop at places that can live up a Wal-Mart's idea of one stop shopping but it would be more like a one stop living. Plus imagine all the bus routes between the loop and the beltway. You could get off of one stop and all you could see is a sidewalk and a fence. You may have to cross a mammoth street like Westheimer or just walk down for miles to the closest store, walking between a massive street and a massive parking lot -- surrounded by concrete, concrete even under you. That's Houston. That's why people don't like mass transit. But nothing's going to change without a little beefing up of the zoning ordinances. Meanwhile it's sprawl sprawl sprawl with buildings laid out for for miles long so walking 3 stores down can be an olympic feat for the elderly (and hopefully they'll live when they get there).

There are some promising improvements but I don't honestly think they'er significant enough in a way that Houstonians could embrace a new style of living except in the downtown area and the surrounding neighborhoods. But even there, we have a long way to go. Metro really screwed up when they stopped the free connecting trolley to the Post's Midtown by Gray and Bagby. Walking from the rail line to there is a hassle and it's disappointing because the rail could use that part of Midtown for its benefit.