What Is A McMansion?

[TheNiche]

I thought McMansions were passe.

My husband and I just built a 800 sq. foot house and just love it. Of course, if we had 3 kids it might be a bit tight but still livable. Nobody needs a 4-5,000 sq. foot house.

My elderly grandparents live with my aunt and uncle. For sanity's sake, with two adult couples living under the same roof, they need a house that size. It was either that or assisted living...

[JLWM8609]

Nobody needs a 4-5,000 sq. foot house.

I'd bet Michael Jantzen would feel that nobody needs a 800 square foot house.

[sidegate]

My elderly grandparents live with my aunt and uncle. For sanity's sake, with two adult couples living under the same roof, they need a house that size. It was either that or assisted living...

For 4 grown people, yes I'd say that square footage is justified. Missmsry 800sq ft would be VERY comfortable with 2 kids. Our updated bungalow (~1700 sq ft) is at capacity with me, my wife and two children, even with an add-on. I'm hoping the addition of a garage with a carriage house on top will fill our needs in terms of expansion - office, guestroom, den, etc.

[KinkaidAlum]

I am noticing quite a few new listings on HAR for older McMansions (ones built between 2003 and 2007). Many of them seem to have unfurnished rooms. I am assuming a lot of people bought more house than they could afford and now they are trying to bail out. Good luck with that.

My new favorite McMansion listing is the ELEVEN THOUSAND square foot butcher job on Cherokee with 8 bathrooms. That whole HAR listing has "FAIL" written all over it...

[Dan the Man]

^

http://www.har.com/14442400

That house is a jumble of un-related styles. Stripped of their context, I actually do like some pieces of it...

The architecture is hardly Neoclassical. Post-Modern is probably a more accurate description.

[sevfiv]

A mansion price, though the IKEA furnishings (which aren't bad, in my opinion) push it in the "mc" category.

[crunchtastic]

My old college friends and I are starting to talk about a house like this as a retirement pad for the group. Of course, not 4 million worth. Maybe 1.5 - 2.

3 or 4 couples, early retirement continuing through old age. It's so huge everyone gets their own living areas. Ample outside space for gardening. Set up ownership as a partnership the correct way, and we can potentially avoid assisted living/moving in with the kids. Communal advantages to ownership and upkeep, and more room per person that any of us have now, frankly.

There is a place for these homes, just not the expected sort.

[KinkaidAlum]

5 bedrooms. Formal living. Den. Media Room. Game room. Library. Gallery. Formal Dining. Breakfast Room. Utility Room. Extra Room. Wine Vault. Quarters. 3 Car Garage. 8 1/2 baths.

Built in 2006. This is a McMansion despite the decent lot size.

Look at the backyard. It features patches of grass and dirt. No shrubs. No deck. No patio. No pool. Just a stark view of the shoddy construction featuring concrete that already looks like it might be showing signs of wear and tear (there appears to be a gaping hole near the funky roofline coming off the first floor). Did the money run out once the front got planted with Home Depot looking style? Seriously, 3 years and that's what the back yard looks like?

Look at the completely unfurnished rooms. Did the sale end at Bo Concept before they could buy more stuff?

Hell, there's not even a single bottle of wine in the "Wine Vault." I could go to Restoration Hardware and buy them something for their countertop.

This house was clearly about showing one's wealth and nothing else. That to me is a McMansion.

[sidegate]

I see this house on my way to daycare every day. I've always wondered what they were thinking with that curious room with the recessed window on the front right.

[retromodernjeff]

^

http://www.har.com/14442400

That house is a jumble of un-related styles. Stripped of their context, I actually do like some pieces of it...

The architecture is hardly Neoclassical. Post-Modern is probably a more accurate description.

Ya Neo Post Modern would be close. I love all the landscaping in the backyard photo

This is a great example of a mcmansion. Its like the home itself and interior "design" were basically the result of someone walking through a store and looking at magazine pages and saying "I like that, and that and really like that" then threw it all together, that resulted in the mish mash designless thing that you see.

Out of all that space, who puts a piano in a towering staircase ??

[WVK]

From Garden Villas! Different houses on 3/4 acre lots of the type in this discussion:

McMansion currently under construction:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd244/WEVK/DSC06843.jpg

Modest bungalow build a few years ago:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd244/WEVK/DSC06840.jpg

Old Shotgun under renovation:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd244/WEVK/DSC06841.jpg

[retromodernjeff]

I once read that the multi-angle roof lines came about due to efforts from roofing products manufacturers. Roofs on these homes would be very expensive to replace and repair. Don't know if that's true, but does make sense.

[RCH99]

I once read that the multi-angle roof lines came about due to efforts from roofing products manufacturers. Roofs on these homes would be very expensive to replace.

There are many different reasons that the roof on a particular structure could end up complex and cut up.......but, the idea that that shingle manufacturers influenced whether that became prevalent is ridiculous.

[TheNiche]

There are many different reasons that the roof on a particular structure could end up complex and cut up.......but, the idea that that shingle manufacturers influenced whether that became prevalent is ridiculous.

I concur. A flat or low-angle roof cannot distribute its weight as effectively towards the sides of a building and for large structures. This is especially problematic in areas prone to large snowfalls, and every winter I hear about cases where homes or whole buildings have collapsed as a consequence of the weight of snow on a roof. Also, because a flat or low-angle roof dramatically reduces the amount of headroom in the attic, it often results in problems with energy efficiency. This is especially problematic in areas with warm-weather climates. And flat roofs in particular invariably have problems with water intrusion and wood rot. I've witnessed instances where trees have started to grow on flat roofs and the owner didn't catch it in time, instead just opting to let the tree continue to grow because yanking it out would cause more damage than leaving it alone--it probably wouldn't have gone down that way if the owner could just glance upwards at a higher-angle roof to inspect for damage from ground level.

[SecondTour]

One of the most informative and downright cool posts I've ever seen on HAIF.

Thanks, Dan. You are indeed the Man.

+1 to that. Very interesting read.

[diggity]

This house was clearly about showing one's wealth and nothing else. That to me is a McMansion.

So what are regular mansions "clearly about" if not showing one's wealth?

[20thStDad]

So what are regular mansions "clearly about" if not showing one's wealth?

Yeah I think McMansion refers to something inappropriately designed/sized/styled compared to its surroundings. Flaunting wealth can be done very tastefully and appropriately. Each may be abhorred by a different type of hater, but I don't think the sentiment of the thread is "big = bad", I think it's about style and fit with regards to a home's surroundings. Ain't nothin wrong with a River Oaks mansion, most are done well and done right (to the owner's taste).

[KinkaidAlum]

I am just harkening back to a different era when REAL mansions were built on large lots. Many times, you couldn't see the main houses from the public roads (think Bayou Bend or Rienzi). Even today, there are places where the new super houses hide behind a grove of trees, behind ornamental hedges, or back along the bayou/golf course.

The thing that gets me about the Cherokee house is that it is HUGE. The square footage of the house represents more than 50% of the lot size. That footprint is totally out of scale with the original neighborhood. I've seen this one in person many times and it just looks out of place.

[TheNiche]

Yeah I think McMansion refers to something inappropriately designed/sized/styled compared to its surroundings. Flaunting wealth can be done very tastefully and appropriately. Each may be abhorred by a different type of hater, but I don't think the sentiment of the thread is "big = bad", I think it's about style and fit with regards to a home's surroundings. Ain't nothin wrong with a River Oaks mansion, most are done well and done right (to the owner's taste).

I definitely agree that a McMansion is something altogether different than merely a show of wealth. Given the "Mc" prefix, I'd be most inclined to think that the term is derived from the McDonald's business model: provide a limited menu of options (allowing the customer to only superficially customize their order), then do enough business that you can keep quickly cranking out the same product over and over in a basically-competent fashion without slowing down to be creative. In so doing, the builders of McMansions can keep their price down, which is important because when it really comes down to it, the vast majority of the population does care about price--even at the high end--far more than they care about the creative elements of the home. In that sense, the McMansion is in some ways the antithesis of a show of wealth. It is a product that appeals to the budget-conscious who are willing to forgo the maximal show of wealth.

Drive through Bellaire some time and see if you disagree with me. The price point isn't the issue that defines a McMansion; there are inexpensive ones and there are expensive ones...not unlike how Whataburger has a 99-cent justaburger on the same menu as a $6 triple cheeseburger. It's about the production process, the interchangeability and convenience of the designs, and the fact that customization of one of these homes is only ever engaged in superficially.

[TheNiche]

I am just harkening back to a different era when REAL mansions were built on large lots. Many times, you couldn't see the main houses from the public roads (think Bayou Bend or Rienzi). Even today, there are places where the new super houses hide behind a grove of trees, behind ornamental hedges, or back along the bayou/golf course.

The thing that gets me about the Cherokee house is that it is HUGE. The square footage of the house represents more than 50% of the lot size. That footprint is totally out of scale with the original neighborhood. I've seen this one in person many times and it just looks out of place.

Until somebody figures out a way to inexpensively manufacture more land in the urban core, you're only going to see more of the same. We're a growing, densifying city with many inner-city neighborhoods that had originally been planned as middle-class or upper-middle-class which are transitioning by virtue of their locations to an uber-wealthy demographic. That category of people want large homes, but there's just no way to get around the dimensions of a postage-stamp-sized lot.

They still make mansions the way that you describe, but aside from the Memorial area where lot sizes are more forgiving, you have to go out to the exurbs. It shouldn't come as a surprise; River Oaks and the Memorial area began their life as exurbs, too.

[sevfiv]

Adding to the differences between a regular and a "mc" -

I think the ratio of house size to lot square footage is key. Secondly, there is the design. I keep going back to Bellaire since I am familiar with homes there, but much of the newer construction is speculative, out of a book, and put together rather hastily. I toured a house last weekend (this one, actually) and I thought the design, layout, and finishes were mediocre if not bad. Not to mention the construction left a lot to be desired (noticeable flaws in fixtures, stone, etc).

Not that the above would fit everyone's mcmansion definition, but for the price (~$870,000) and the product, to me it definitely fits it and is ripe for the buying of folks who conspicuously consume and don't give a second thought about how home fits in to landscape, how interiors fit within a home, and those who value vanity over utility. But they're selling. For nearly a million dollars. On 8,775 square foot lots.

[EMME]

Yeah I think McMansion refers to something inappropriately designed/sized/styled compared to its surroundings. Flaunting wealth can be done very tastefully and appropriately. Each may be abhorred by a different type of hater, but I don't think the sentiment of the thread is "big = bad", I think it's about style and fit with regards to a home's surroundings. Ain't nothin wrong with a River Oaks mansion, most are done well and done right (to the owner's taste).

A River Oaks mansion looks great in River Oaks, but looks downright silly surrounded by little houses. There is a house in the Heights, I think it is on 25th somewhere around Oxford. It is on a corner, goes from 25th - 24th and several lots running east and west. It is HUGE, has a mother-in-laws quarters, and is stuffed full of stuff like a gazebo, pool, shuffleboard courts, etc. Gauche doesn't even begin to describe it. Now, take that same house and put it in upscale Spring Branch and it would look beautiful.

The other funny thing is people who live in these homes that say, "a dinky little low dollar house has no business next to a $300,000 dollar house." To that I say, "so don't build one there!"

[TheNiche]

Adding to the differences between a regular and a "mc" -

I think the ratio of house size to lot square footage is key. Secondly, there is the design. I keep going back to Bellaire since I am familiar with homes there, but much of the newer construction is speculative, out of a book, and put together rather hastily. I toured a house last weekend (this one, actually) and I thought the design, layout, and finishes were mediocre if not bad. Not to mention the construction left a lot to be desired (noticeable flaws in fixtures, stone, etc).

Not that the above would fit everyone's mcmansion definition, but for the price (~$870,000) and the product, to me it definitely fits it and is ripe for the buying of folks who conspicuously consume and don't give a second thought about how home fits in to landscape, how interiors fit within a home, and those who value vanity over utility. But they're selling. For nearly a million dollars. On 8,775 square foot lots.

I don't hold anything against 8,775-square-foot lots. I don't think that that's a key criteria in judging whether something is a mansion or McMansion. There's a home at the northeast corner of Bellaire Blvd. and N. 2nd Street which by lot size and home size might be confused for a McMansion--if somebody is just browsing tax rolls--but it has a contemporary/minimalist design that was very clearly a one-off home, built to the owner's exacting specifications. It is surrounded by McMansions but it is not a McMansion.

Other good examples that come to mind are the homes at the northwest corner of Colquitt and Ferndale as well as the northwest corner of Kirby and Amherst.

[TheNiche]

A River Oaks mansion looks great in River Oaks, but looks downright silly surrounded by little houses. There is a house in the Heights, I think it is on 25th somewhere around Oxford. It is on a corner, goes from 25th - 24th and several lots running east and west. It is HUGE, has a mother-in-laws quarters, and is stuffed full of stuff like a gazebo, pool, shuffleboard courts, etc. Gauche doesn't even begin to describe it.

No worries. In another 10 years, the lone house will have plenty company. And then the old smaller houses will look out of place, just like they do in West U.

[EMME]

I don't hold anything against 8,775-square-foot lots. I don't think that that's a key criteria in judging whether something is a mansion or McMansion. There's a home at the northeast corner of Bellaire Blvd. and N. 2nd Street which by lot size and home size might be confused for a McMansion--if somebody is just browsing tax rolls--but it has a contemporary/minimalist design that was very clearly a one-off home, built to the owner's exacting specifications. It is surrounded by McMansions but it is not a McMansion.

Other good examples that come to mind are the homes at the northwest corner of Colquitt and Ferndale as well as the northwest corner of Kirby and Amherst.

I love that house.

[KinkaidAlum]

Niche, I almost entirely agree with you on your point about the McDonald's business model being a key for McMansions. However, I fail to see how that house on Cherokee is helping "densify" the Inner Loop. That home doesn't appear to house children (no evidence of play equipment, kid's bedrooms, pools, etc...). In fact, judging the interiors and furnishings, it looks like a couple lives there. That's not densifying anything, it's just hogging the land mass.

And SEV, that house is so unappealing to me, but I do appreciate the small efforts it looks like the builder made (a front porch, a garage that doesn't face the street). Of course, I would really need to see it in its context to judge whether or not I'd throw it in the McMansion category.

So much of Bellaire is just totally gone by now that that house might actually be the smallest on the block!

[TheNiche]

Niche, I almost entirely agree with you on your point about the McDonald's business model being a key for McMansions. However, I fail to see how that house on Cherokee is helping "densify" the Inner Loop. That home doesn't appear to house children (no evidence of play equipment, kid's bedrooms, pools, etc...). In fact, judging the interiors and furnishings, it looks like a couple lives there. That's not densifying anything, it's just hogging the land mass.

Densification manifests itself in many ways. Population density is part of that, however in the context of a discussion about spatial concepts rather than social concepts, I'm really talking about physical density. Although I believe my description to be accurate, on second glance I do see how it is imprecise. My word choice could've been better.

So much of Bellaire is just totally gone by now that that house might actually be the smallest on the block!

Would that make it any less of a McMansion?

[hadooga]

I don't hold anything against 8,775-square-foot lots. I don't think that that's a key criteria in judging whether something is a mansion or McMansion. There's a home at the northeast corner of Bellaire Blvd. and N. 2nd Street which by lot size and home size might be confused for a McMansion--if somebody is just browsing tax rolls--but it has a contemporary/minimalist design that was very clearly a one-off home, built to the owner's exacting specifications. It is surrounded by McMansions but it is not a McMansion.

I'm pretty sure this house was built by the architect for himself/his family. It was on a home tour a few years back & it's quite nice. It is big, but I do think it's less than half the lot size. We have lots of 3,000+ sq ft houses on 5,000 sq ft lots around here. And about the large & larger McMansions: the first wave of the McMansions did not have wine cellars, butlers pantries, the grand entry/staircases, 'quarters' and so on. They weren't as gauche as the newer ones. They were also less square footage on the whole, and that's why they list at ~$600,000 and the newer ones go for closer to a million.

We live in a 1,200 sq ft house in Bellaire. I never thought it was 'small' until we had the kiddo. We have 3 bedrooms which is more than enough, even though they are small. One bathroom is starting to get tight with 3 people vying for it, so I'd add that if I could. The kitchen is tiny, but again - didn't seem so tiny when I wasn't buying groceries for a family. I never missed having a pantry back then.

Beyond the size, though, and going back to the house mentioned above - it was architect designed for a specific client (be it himself or not.) The McMansions, to me, are so cookie cutter, stamp it out, straight from the book of plans, boring. Why would I want a 2nd floor balcony to look out on my neighbor's roof (if the small house still exists next door) or on to his postage stamp sized backyard, and mine (if it's been mowed down for a McMansion already.) Or even better - I can sit out there in the morning and have my coffee while watching the traffic go by on 610. Why?! Who wants this? Obviously, some people do or they wouldn't sell. It's like Johnson's Glass House - I love it and I think it's gorgeous, but I wouldn't build something like that in the middle of a block in Bellaire (there's one that reminds me of this off Bissonnet.) We go look at houses all the time, McMansions included, and some of them just make no sense to me at all. The layout is strange; they'll have one huge bedroom and then 3 tiny ones; the house itself is enormous but there's really not much storage space ... that kind of stuff. Some are better than others, but I'm still waiting to tour the McMansion that I could actually imagine living in.

[EMME]

I'm pretty sure this house was built by the architect for himself/his family. It was on a home tour a few years back & it's quite nice. It is big, but I do think it's less than half the lot size. We have lots of 3,000+ sq ft houses on 5,000 sq ft lots around here. And about the large & larger McMansions: the first wave of the McMansions did not have wine cellars, butlers pantries, the grand entry/staircases, 'quarters' and so on. They weren't as gauche as the newer ones. They were also less square footage on the whole, and that's why they list at ~$600,000 and the newer ones go for closer to a million.

We live in a 1,200 sq ft house in Bellaire. I never thought it was 'small' until we had the kiddo. We have 3 bedrooms which is more than enough, even though they are small. One bathroom is starting to get tight with 3 people vying for it, so I'd add that if I could. The kitchen is tiny, but again - didn't seem so tiny when I wasn't buying groceries for a family. I never missed having a pantry back then.

Beyond the size, though, and going back to the house mentioned above - it was architect designed for a specific client (be it himself or not.) The McMansions, to me, are so cookie cutter, stamp it out, straight from the book of plans, boring. Why would I want a 2nd floor balcony to look out on my neighbor's roof (if the small house still exists next door) or on to his postage stamp sized backyard, and mine (if it's been mowed down for a McMansion already.) Or even better - I can sit out there in the morning and have my coffee while watching the traffic go by on 610. Why?! Who wants this? Obviously, some people do or they wouldn't sell. It's like Johnson's Glass House - I love it and I think it's gorgeous, but I wouldn't build something like that in the middle of a block in Bellaire (there's one that reminds me of this off Bissonnet.) We go look at houses all the time, McMansions included, and some of them just make no sense to me at all. The layout is strange; they'll have one huge bedroom and then 3 tiny ones; the house itself is enormous but there's really not much storage space ... that kind of stuff. Some are better than others, but I'm still waiting to tour the McMansion that I could actually imagine living in.

It's 11000+ sf on a 20,000 sf lot, so yes it is more than 50%, however, it still appears to be appropriately set. Imay be with you on this one Niche.

[sevfiv]

I don't hold anything against 8,775-square-foot lots. I don't think that that's a key criteria in judging whether something is a mansion or McMansion. There's a home at the northeast corner of Bellaire Blvd. and N. 2nd Street which by lot size and home size might be confused for a McMansion--if somebody is just browsing tax rolls--but it has a contemporary/minimalist design that was very clearly a one-off home, built to the owner's exacting specifications. It is surrounded by McMansions but it is not a McMansion.

Other good examples that come to mind are the homes at the northwest corner of Colquitt and Ferndale as well as the northwest corner of Kirby and Amherst.

Oh, I don't have anything against the lot size, either...but in my opinion (which isn't shared by too many folks) a house more than 2,500 square feet or so just looks uncomfortable to me unless the design somehow hides the space better.

That home on Bellaire (4826 I think?) looks uncomfortable to me, too - mainly the way the east side is snug against the neighbor. Those lots do seem a little narrow, though, so maybe there wasn't any other option when they decided to build a that house on that sized lot.

And those lots along Bellaire - I think they were originally much larger or were not residential lots (farmland) - most of the homes along that stretch weren't built until the mid 1980s (inlcuding the one torn down at 4826), and there are a couple 1950s home, and even fewer 1920s homes sprinkled in.