Next Us President

[ssullivan]

I'm sorry, I just can't resist.

Bush continues to manipulate the American people IMO, by saying the world is safer without Saddam, the world is safer without Saddam, the world is safer without Saddam. And I say Pleeeeeezzzzze. If I invited you all to my house for dinner and baked you guys a pie with 500 pieces of glass in it, but before I served it to you, I removed one of the pieces of glass to where there is only 499 pieces left, is the pie now safer to eat? Also, mind you, I didn't remove the largest pieces of glass or the pieces that is most obviously a threat to my guests.  Well, technically yes, it is indeed safer to eat, but my removing a single piece of glass that doesn't pose the biggest threat to my guests, isn't enough for me to serve the pie while giving my guests an impression that the pie is now safe enough to eat.

This is how I see George W and his actions in Iraq, and unfortunately he has convinced a significant amount of Americans that not only is that pie now safe enough to eat but that he should be allowed to bake them another.

Great way to put it!

[ricco67]

While I personally don't care for either one, Kerry WAS in combat and WAS in several combat situations.

That part, you have to admit, is hard to dispute.

Now the reasoning on how he lied about what's going on...well..vietnam was a VERY unpopular war. many people of Kerry's (Bush's, Clinton's) age avoided the draft the best they could.

They also didn't know all the information that they know NOW about the war. everything was pretty much based on hearsay.

Ricco

[debmartin]

anyone read al franken's book? besides being side-splitting funny it makes for some very interesting reading. of course it's a spin, like michael moore's movie and must be taken in that context, but it is amazing what lengths he went to to keep it factual. i never really took notice of ann coulter until i read the book and saw how franken totally trashed her - now i'm reading her book to keep it fair. comments?

debmartin

[ssullivan]

anyone read al franken's book?  besides  being side-splitting funny it makes for some very interesting reading.  of course it's a spin, like michael moore's movie and must be taken in that context, but it is amazing what lengths he went to to keep it factual.  i never really took notice of ann coulter until i read the book and saw how franken totally trashed her - now i'm reading her book to keep it fair.  comments?

debmartin

I haven't read Franken's book, although a friend has been bugging me to get a copy and read it. He raved about it when it first came out but he's got more time these days to read than I do.

[Montrose1100]

I don't think anyone can say for sure if Kerry lied or not on this except for John Kerry. However, I am more inclined to believe the people who were in his boat over those who were not.

Anyway, I think there's no such thing as a 100% honest politician. And while we're on the subject of lies, how about the lies the current President told to get us into an unjustified war with a sovereign nation that had not attacked us? Thousands have died over those lies and Bush and his cronies have made out bigtime on the corporate being generated by Halliburton for helping to clean the mess up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"100% Honest Politician"

Well maybe we should do what the Ancient mayans did, sacrafice genital blood to the gods, that kept there rulers honest!

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Kerry is the real liar, though. Bush wasn't lying about what he said about Kerry, Kerry lied and made the stuff up about the Vietnam War to make himself look good.

[ssullivan]

Kerry is the real liar, though. Bush wasn't lying about what he said about Kerry, Kerry lied and made the stuff up about the Vietnam War to make himself look good.

How can you say that with any degree of certainty?

Anyway, the whole Vietnam thing is nothing but a diversion from the real issues at hand. Frankly I'm sick of hearing about it. I do find it ironic how the Republicans yelled "draft dodger!" at the top of their lungs while Clinton was running for office but have all kinds of convenient excuses today about Bush's nonexistant Texas Air National Guard service that kept him out of the war.

The real issue in this election is not who did what regarding that war over thirty years ago. I want to hear some good ideas on how to deal with the pressing issues we have today. I want to hear how we can deal with the economic problems that are not really getting any better, real solutions for national security that do not cause people to stay at home out of constant fear or infringe upon our rights, and how we can get out of the mess we've gotten ourselves into in Iraq. I want to hear about how the leadership of the country wants to reunite the country, not divide it by using issues like abortion, gay rights, and religion to get votes. And I want to hear some good, workable solutions for things like Social Security, Medicare, universal health insurance for all of our citizens, poverty, and the energy crisis that is going to come in the next couple of decades if we continue to rely on oil as our primary energy source.

I'm not totally satisfied with either political party or candidate. However I think the country has gone in a horrible direction the last four years and I will not vote to reelect the current administration. Kerry is not without his faults, but we need a change. People need to wake up and realize what's going on and for once use their brains to think about the direction the country is headed.

[KinkaidAlum]

I am a Kerry backer all the way.

There are so many reasons why I support Kerry over Bush so I will give you my main one... the Bush regime scares me.

The Bush/Cheney campaign is one big staged event. People have been arrested (including people who have PAID to attend events) for asking Bush unscripted questions. A couple in West Virginia was arrested at a PUBLIC event where Bush spoke for wearing t-shirts that read "I love my country but not my president." Another man was FIRED from his job by his Republican boss for asking Bush a question about Iraq at a private event. It is being widely reported that attendees at Bush/Cheney campaign stops must sign release forms pledging their allegiance to the ticket and/or make financial contributions. These are not people using violent forms of protest that are being detained and charged. These are people actively participating in DEMOCRACY.

Thus, if our President cannot respect democracy then why should I respect him by giving him my vote?

[ssullivan]

Good points, Kinkaid. And what about the people who have been arrested for simply voicing their opposition to the President in a legal, peaceful way? I saw on the news the other night where a woman was arrested for trying to peacefully ask Laura Bush a question at an event she was speaking at. The arrested woman had a son killed in Iraq. She was arrested for doing nothing but asking a question like anyone else! I'm sorry but the government does not have the right to arrest you because they don't like the question you're trying to ask. Fortunately charges against her were later dropped.

Second example - last month a friend of mine went to NY to protest during the Republican convention. Two young men who were in his group that traveled to NY were arrested for shouting "No More Years!" at a group of Bush supporters who were in the street shouting "Four More Years!" All they did was peacefully stand there and speak. They were not threatening anyone, but they were arrested and taken to jail.

Stuff like this has to stop! People need to wake up and see what's really going on.

[debmartin]

"Stuff like this has to stop! People need to wake up and

see what's really going on." (quote, ssullivan)

best thing to do is go out and get a copy of george orwell's "1984". recently i started putting things together like this bush fanaticism and it reminded me of something i'd once read, so i racked my brain and remembered this oldie but goodie. i picked up a copy of it and could not put it down - read it in one afternoon. all i can say is "if the shoe fits, etc." i'm thinking of ordering a few dozen copies of them on amazon and distributing them to all of my friends and family, many of whom could use a healthy dose of "wake up and smell the victory gin".

debmartin

[dbigtex56]

debmartin, ssulivan, I'm with you.

Being childless, I have no idea what people have been taught in high school since about 1975. In my high school English class, we were asked to compare and contrast Brave New World and 1984.

In the 30's and 40's people were acutely aware that the future could become a Utopia or a Dystopia. These novels were written during the era of the New Deal, Fascism and Socialism. If you haven't read them, please do. They're great stories. People had legitimate questions about the fallibility of the Capitalism system after the Great Depression. Blood was shed over labor disputes, here and abroad.

To put it in current terms, Brave New World showed a society that was too leftist; and 1984, one too right-wing. In both novels, there was a suspicion that society was being manipulated by an omnicient government. Suspicion is a good thing. I don't believe everything Michael Moore says; I believe some of it. I'm worried when an airplane is prevented from landing because Cat Stevens is on board. He was riding with his daughter; do you think the guy who wrote "Peace Train" is a threat? I'm worried that people aren't still questioning what went on at the President's energy summit three years ago. I wonder how come Bush was opposed to the 9/11 hearings, and Ms Rice's testimony, and why he refused to testify under oath. My brow furrows because our government is torturing prisoners and holding people who have no access to legal recourse. This is scary. The connection between mass media and the Republican party is a matter of record. To call radio, television, newspapers 'liberal' is laughable. Good god! They're supported by business interests. Who's going to insult their advertisers?

If Mr. Bush was at all forthcoming - if he'd just come out and say "Look, I was rich, screwed up and priviliged", maybe I'd forgive him, and believe him. He doesn't lie, exactly. He also avoids the truth. Such flawed Christianity. Such arrogance.

Can we agree that the Electoral College is flawed? I'm going to cast my vote on election day. I always shall. Conventional wisdom says Texas is going to Bush, and I don't care. I want the nation to know that all of Texas doesn't support Bush. I'm insistant on the point that questioning our leadership doesn't make me a liberal (not that there's anything wrong with that), nor that 'liberal' is a bad word, nor does it make me anti-American, nor half-witted, nor a hippie; that I am more a patriot than those who chant "U...S.. A! U...S...A!", and don't know who represents them locally, statewide, nor nationally.

Incidentally...can you name your city councilperson? your state representative? your state senator? Your national representative? Our two national senators?

Then shut up.

[beetlemania]

What Bush and Cheney did and said leading up to the Iraq war, the lies and mistruths they propogated, are impeachable offenses in my opinion. Not only is there no discussion at all of impeachment, but they're ahead in polls now. Like Michael Moore said in his Oscar speech, "we live in fictitious times..."

Kerry by default.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

[debmartin]

"I'm worried when an airplane is prevented from landing because Cat Stevens is on board. He was riding with his daughter; do you think the guy who wrote "Peace Train" is a threat?" (quote, dbigtex56)

i'm worried along with you dbigtex - also about a woman arrested at a bush rally for simply trying to ask laura bush a question and a man arrested at the republican convention for yelling "no more years" while the bush supporters chanted "4 more years". all of a sudden, it is a crime to speak your mind in public and in light of how much the average person equates arrest with police brutality i'd bet the bush camp just about has everyone scared into keeping their mouth shut if they have a difference of opionion.

shame on bush and his henchmen for stripping away what should be our protected right, "free speech". used to be everyone had (or could have) a different political opinion, which helped keep politicians in check. instead now if you oppose the president you are not viewed as "having a difference of opinion" but branded "unpatriotic", "unamerican" or worse, "traitor".

i am not particularly impressed with kerry, but to me he is the "anti-bush". my slogan before kerry emerged from the democratic primary was, "vote for _______, he's not bush". many people have told me it would better for me not to vote at all than to vote against a candidate, but i disagree. the war in iraq has factored big in my decision that bush is an ego maniac who drove us into fighting to advance his political power. yes sadam was a bad person, wreaking havoc on his country but should we take our troops everywhere this is the case? what about sudan and countless other places where there are daily atrocities? weapons of mass destruction? they were not there but even had they been this alone has not driven us into the many other places they exist. we have weapons of mass destruction ourselves. should other "peace-keeping" armies storm in and disarm us?

sorry for venting, but i'm getting so fed up i'm swearing off of cnn, fox, etc and the media in general until its all over. worse case and bush wins, i feel he will finally be exposed for what he is, a war monger who will at least be run off by the next election. in the meantime i think i'll re-read my al franken book because you simply cannot stay in a bad mood while rolling around on the floor laughing.

and for the record, i respect cat stevens as a gifted songwriter and enjoy his recordings. it is embarrassing what happened to him about the plane - if he was so "dangerous" why was he allowed to fly in the first place? if we say he "slipped in" by accident we have weak security - if we admit it was a screw-up we look incompetent. i'm waiting to see how fast the cya team gets to work on this one. when will we wise up and realize that although all these terrorists have been muslim, not all muslims are terrorists?

debmartin

[jmancuso]

I could go on and on about BushCo and their assault on basic freedoms( 1st amendment, reproductive, gay; you name it...) but I won't and just say that I'm rooting for Kerry but in all honesty, Amerika will re-elect Bush.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Your right, Bush is going to be re-electing without a doubt. The Demacrats could cry all they want about how "bad" Bush is, some of it is true, but most is not.

[debmartin]

"Your right, Bush is going to be re-electing without a doubt. The Demacrats could cry all they want about how "bad" Bush is, some of it is true, but most is not. "

(quote, cincoranch)

and therein lies the problem. what do you consider is "bad" about bush? how bad would it have to be for you to question his motives and actions? the problem with bush is that statements like the one you made carry him, he's bad but not that bad. calling attention to the fact that he's "bad" at all can brand you "unpatriotic" or even worse, "terrorist". this outdated and dangerous way of thinking was acceptable long ago, when out of required respect amercians were expected to look the other way. after watergate it became fashionable for the public to actually hold the commander in chief accountable for his opinions and actions. maybe if more people did, instead of closing their eyes and waving the flag around, bush just might have to get honest and actually earn the trust his mass followers afford him. then those of us who resent his abuse of power could at least respect him.

debmartin

[MidtownCoog]

All of a sudden, it is a crime to speak your mind in public and in light of how much the average person equates arrest with police brutality i'd bet the bush camp just about has everyone scared into keeping their mouth shut if they have a difference of opionion.

Man, are y'all are some paranoid people, or what?

Sheesh.

[ricco67]

midtowncoog,

Not really, we're just taking one form of paranoia (building/development/sprawl) to another arena...in this case..politics.

Ricco

[dbigtex56]

And just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.

[debmartin]

"all of a sudden, it is a crime to speak your mind in public and in light of how much the average person equates arrest with police brutality i'd bet the bush camp just about has everyone scared into keeping their mouth shut if they have a difference of opionion." (quote, debmartin)

midtowncoog it's easy to dismiss this as simple paranoia when you take a statement like i made out of context like you did. that is why i would never make such an assertion without providing something to back it up, like "a man arrested at the republican convention for yelling "no more years" while the bush supporters chanted "4 more years". i have developed a simple, two-step proceedure to help you analyze my statement:

1. read statement, including what comes before and after.

2. reflect upon the meaning and implications of statement.

with proper practice anyone should be able to comprehend the idea and provide an intelligent comment, regardless of whether they agree with my interpretation. i would love to hear ANY explanation you could possibly provide to justify the record number of individuals arrested for exercising their right to free speech. oh and by the way, you forgot the most important thing i had to say:

"shame on bush and his henchmen for stripping away what should be our protected right, "free speech".

debmartin

[MidtownCoog]

Go pull a stunt like that at a Kerry/Edwards campaign function and see what happens. Do you serioulsy think they would let you disrupt one of their functions? You'll get to see how free your speech really is.

The thing is, the media only reports the evil Bush stories to make Kerry look good. That, and the fact that nobody takes Kerry seriously enought to even protest against him.

Things in my America are going great. I am sorry to hear the sad state of affairs in yours.

Print It

[N8TIV]

George W. Bush isn't the greatest candidate we could have, but I feel a lot safer with him at the helm, than a true politician like John Kerry. I don't totally agree with all of Bush's viewpoints, but he comes across as someone who could be good to hang out with and would know that his opinions come from his heart and knows when to do the right thing when a difficult (at times unpopular) decision needs to be made. Kerry seems like he wants to come across as being cool and smart but he tries so hard to want to please everyone everywhere. A true politician. My biggest concern is our country's safety and terrorism around the world. In my opinion, Bush is the better candidate for protecting us and making tough decisions.

[MidtownCoog]

Some of Bush's decisions have been unpopular with the banner-waving and slogan-shouting "masses", but then leaders have to make tough decisions sometimes.

And THAT is precisely what worries me about Kerry.

[jmancuso]

Go pull a stunt like that at a Kerry/Edwards campaign function and see what happens.  Do you serioulsy think they would let you disrupt one of their functions?  You'll get to see how free your speech really is.

The thing is, the media only reports the evil Bush stories to make Kerry look good.  That, and the fact that nobody takes Kerry seriously enought to even protest against him.

Things in my America are going great.  I am sorry to hear the sad state of affairs in yours.

Print It

No, the media has been all over Kerry, making him look like a flip-flopper and an elistest and this is from the so-called liberal media. The media also had a free-for-all with the Not-So-Swift Veterans for Bush and I think that pretty much killed Kerry's chaces not too mention everytime his wife makes an outrburst, it's all over the news giving the impression as a brash snob. Howard Dean was toast after his 'AGHHHHH' speach made him look like an ass during the primaries.

There have been several incidents of Bush hecklers being toted off to jail and there was one case of a couple arrested becuase they wore t-shirts that critisized bush and they refused to take them off. I have yet to hear of kerry hecklers being arrested but i'm not saying that can't happen becuase that all depends on the police in that particular area. And us Americans are incresingly being treated as potential suspects more and more by the authorities.

[debmartin]

i've not run across any news reports of kerry hecklers being arrested at a rally or town meeting. i did see a news report of an exchange between kerry and a bush supporter - kerry was saying something about tax advantages for the rich and the heckler yelled out, "but you are the rich, why should we believe you"? kerry responded by stopping his prepared speech and addressing the man directly, saying something to the effect of "yes, i am affluent and like other affluent individuals i am favored by the current tax laws, but i would like to see that changed." kerry went further, asking the man how many rich people he has spoken to who would like to see that changed, and the man had no answer. after a rather awkward pause, senator kerry resumed his speech. kerry supporters did not shout this person down, who rudely heckled and interrupted the candidate they stood in the hot sun to hear from, instead they let him have his say.

the commentator on msnbc made it a point to contrast this candidate/protester exchange, comparing it to the standard bush reaction. his take was that bush has the advantage of "threat to national security" to sling around at anyone who disrupts the presidents speeches and keeps his crowds tightly controlled. i'm sure kerry enjoys some measure of crowd control through his own security, but no way it's even close to what the bush camp is doing.

an attitude like the one displayed by m/c can be the very reason free speech is so easily stamped out. that and the chicken little "the sky is falling" psuedo terror frenzy we're being asked to swap in our civil liberties for. oh well, bush can't be president forever and if he does happen to win another term he'll have all those security moms on his ass, holding him to his promises!

[westguy]

Some of Bush's decisions have been unpopular with the banner-waving and slogan-shouting "masses", but then leaders have to make tough decisions sometimes.

Conquering Iraq wasn't a tough decision. Most Americans supported that decision (much thanks to that 45 minutes to launch an attack from Al Qaudi with little model airplanes locked in RV campers of death). Lying to garner support is okay with you? Allrighty.

Kerry isn't a flip flopper. He is a Senator and it is their JOB to deliberate. The Senate is not a zoo where they throw feces at one another like in the House. Yes, they may come down on one side of the issue and then change their minds later. That is what the founders of this country envisioned the Senate to act like. The President's PRIMARY responsibilty is foreign policy, and with that, Bush has gotten this country into a quaqmire in Iraq, abandoned Afghanistan to the warlords, emboldened the terrorists, and gotten the rest of the world to HATE the United States.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Yeah, you don't hear of Afghanistan anymore, and we have thousands of troops their forgotten.

[N8TIV]

We have troops all over the world. Just because fighting has slowed in an area doesn't mean they are forgotten.

Bringing stability in the Middle East is not a cakewalk. Yeah, it seems like a quagmire and loose cannons everywhere..of course it will. Islamic extremists are afraid of changing from ways of the past..ESPECIALLY if the effort is led by Americans! But once the Iraqi's experience democracy, and get through their first election hopefully they will learn to govern a muslim country where everyone has a choice.

Iraqi Prime Minister Allawi knows that it's a difficult situation, but stood next to President Bush the other day and told the world he was thankful for the American-led effort to bring democracy to Iraq.

This is not a war over Oil, we're not going in to take Iraq's oil. and there are idiots that think that. We are in there to make sure there is stability in that region, and to fight terrorism cells. Once a democracy is established, the Iraqi people will bring Saddam Hussein to justice for the decades of harm to his own people leading to genocide, torture and widespread poverty.

[KinkaidAlum]

The regions around Iraq have been unstable since Babylon. I don't see how "liberating" it via an unpopular act of aggression will somehow change thousands of years of history.

Of course, the simpletons in this administration ignored the dire warning signs, the outcries from the rest of the free world, and many of our own military leaders' opinions stating that an invasion without the 100% certainty that there were indeed weapons of mass destruction would be unwise at best and devastating at worst.

Of course, my main problem with attacking Iraq has to do with the fact that it has made most Americans turn a blind eye to what is happening in our own country. Hell, this administration has allowed industry to put ARSENIC into our water supplies! Seriously. Arsenic. Look it up. It's all part of the public record under the EPA.