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And a derelict, abandoned old warehouse that flooded out occaisionally was somehow less cold? I'll tell you what adds warmth to a building: use.

I'm not impressed by Portland. Hence I don't live there.

You seem not to be capable of dealing very effectively with loss, but it is a necessary component of gain. What would a city look like if nothing were ever demolished? Or destroyed by fire or other means (and I mention this because if cities wouldn't allow demolition, many property owners would find other ways to do the job). Cities of several million people don't just pop up overnight. They grow slowly over the span of centuries. The lowest-density urban development occurs first, and it occurs in the area that will be the future central business district. In the span of a couple hundred years, what is there initially will be razed, rebuilt, then razed and rebuilt again. But if demolition isn't allowed, and development comes incrementally, then you've just made it so that every time something new needs to be built, it'll be built at the urban boundary, where there is developable land. Think about that kind of city. Is that a place that you'd want to live in? Not me.

This is just a warehouse, one like so many before it that have come and gone. Life goes on.

There is no need to comment on my ability to deal with architectural loss... c'mon, when you live in Houston, it is a constant. And I did mention that these were selfish feelings.... take me at face value when I say that.

We have totally different views on this. Clearly places I cherish you could care less about. Things I view as cold you view as useful and important. What I view as a negative you view as a positive. Period.... and absolutely fine.

Michael Barry, Sekula Gibbs (bye), Carol Alvarado, et al have no clue about saving anything.

Our best hope is Mr. Peter Brown. At least he seems to get it, but until we quit electing losers nothing will change.

(This rant not inspired by this derelect warehouse, but lack of preservation in general)

And don't even get me started on Mayor "topic de jour" White.

Dead on. The lack of even the concept - or importance -of even minimal forms of preservation laws is what gets my ire up. The warehouse is - like all the other buildings on Allen Parkway I mentioned - just another example.

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Quick search and tada- first look thanks to someone from the landscape side of this. https://issuu.com/cthogge/docs/210221_hogge-portfolio-pages

first upload was hard to see, i colored over the lines so they stand out:

Looking at google earth, there is a clear shot from May of 2020 in which the buildings laid out??    

Posted Images

And I am so tired of the consolation we talk ourselves into... "oh, we may have lost a historic building... but look what we are getting instead!" Can we not have both?? Uhhh, sure we can.... take a look at this example.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/index.php?loc=57&id=465

I was so impressed by mcmenamins when i was there! we went to an old farm and just hopped about to different buildings, having a drink in each, had dinner in another old building...what an amazing idea. and they rake in the cash! not only do people just go for the evening, but at the same time they have events and this one had hotel rooms...

what a totally neat thing it would have been if they had converted this site that way. Heights Yankee had always said it would make a killer bar/restaurant.

wish I would have thought of it years ago and made a proposal of some sort...

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Heights Yankee had always said it would make a killer bar/restaurant.

wish I would have thought of it years ago and made a proposal of some sort...

Yeah but someone said pictures have been taken so history is preserved. I think they also said something like, "This is just a warehouse, one like so many before it that have come and gone. Life goes on."

Yes indeed. Life does go on-perhaps with a lessor quality but it does seem to go on. -_-

Edited by nmainguy
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We have totally different views on this. Clearly places I cherish you could care less about. Things I view as cold you view as useful and important. What I view as a negative you view as a positive. Period.... and absolutely fine.

To be perfectly clear, I don't like demolition. I don't see this as entirely positive. I see there being a cost (-) and a benefit (+). The one is greater than the other. That's all.

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To be perfectly clear, I don't like demolition. I don't see this as entirely positive. I see there being a cost (-) and a benefit (+). The one is greater than the other. That's all.

and what several people are trying to say to you is that cost (and benefit) boil down to more than just $$'s. The $$ game can be spun in many ways. The preservation game ,however, is one directional.

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and what several people are trying to say to you is that cost (and benefit) boil down to more than just $$'s. The $$ game can be spun in many ways. The preservation game ,however, is one directional.

No. I'm talking about economic benefits and costs, not financial. Read this Wikipedia entry about the concept of Utility. You'll see what I mean.

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No. I'm talking about economic benefits and costs, not financial. Read this Wikipedia entry about the concept of Utility. You'll see what I mean.

beauty, history, memories, potential and "feel" are lost that can never be recovered. Sometimes, there is no help for it...but all the time? no, impatience and the all mighty dollar are usually to blame.

I/we UNDERSTAND where you are coming from!!! please, take the time to look at it from another direction and realize that more is lost than bricks and wood. If you did, I would take the time to read more of your posts...as it is, I feel they all have the same message of $$$$$$$$$. been there, read that. you are clearly very intelligent and well "spoken", however, I don't want to listen to everything politicians say either, cause it is always a spin on the same bottom line.

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beauty, history, memories, potential and "feel" are lost that can never be recovered. Sometimes, there is no help for it...but all the time? no, impatience and the all mighty dollar are usually to blame.

I/we UNDERSTAND where you are coming from!!! please, take the time to look at it from another direction and realize that more is lost than bricks and wood. If you did, I would take the time to read more of your posts...as it is, I feel they all have the same message of $$$$$$$$$. been there, read that. you are clearly very intelligent and well "spoken", however, I don't want to listen to everything politicians say either, cause it is always a spin on the same bottom line.

Hey, nobody ever said that your utility function had to equate to mine. There are buildings to which I have an attachment, believe it or not...but vacant and derelict warehouses that occaisionally flood don't rank very high on the list.

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the significance of the era in which it was built, the history of the tenants, the craftmanship, the organic detailing, and the decreasing amount of art deco examples we have here - all things that tie in to making this place not just another abandoned warehouse - to me.

too bad someone who could creatively re-use it didn't buy it.

example - the sunset coffee building on buffalo bayou - the buffalo bayou partnership has plans (fingers crossed) with lake/flato to re-use the building. the first floor floods all of the time, so the plan for that is to make it in to a canoe/other-boat-type-things rental shop, and put everything else (restaurant, office, and so forth) on the upper floors.

it's still in the works from what i heard as recently as last sunday.

http://www.buffalobayou.org/sunsetcoffee.html

Edited by sevfiv
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There are buildings to which I have an attachment, believe it or not...but vacant and derelict warehouses that occaisionally flood don't rank very high on the list.

This was a large, full-service retail store, maybe the first outside of the CBD. It only became a warehouse after the flood.

There is just such a callous attitude here and that, more than anything, has me negative about Houston at times. We lack a good balance between historic and new. One of the reasons I like city living is the get the feeling of history and it's that same feeling that makes suburban living so unappealing. Plain buildings become something else when they survive the decades. Even plain buildings become special to a degree when they survive a long time, and this one wasn't plain, it started out special.

Anyway, we've talked this point into the ground but hopefully the so-called urban renaissance and all of those who are responsible for it are also sensitive to these things and so the ordinances will eventually change as the city's people continue to.

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Why is it so hard to figure out that sometimes the greatest returns can be on creating something new out of something old? Now, the following might not necessarily be the MOST economically successful businesses or spaces around, but they are wildly popular and have loyal followings. They are also unique and make Houston a much better place to live, work, and play.

Mark's

Montrose Library/Black Lab

Dharma Cafe

Brasil

LaCarafe

Warren's Inn

Treebeards

Ruggles

Julia's

Continental Club

Tacos A-GO-Go

Galleries and Apartments at Isabella Courts

The Rice

Lancaster Hotel

The old warehouse could have been turned into something really special. A farmer's market on the ground floor with real lofts upstairs. A gym. A restaurant/club. A community center. Anything. Where's the damn vision?

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I'm going to throw an idea out there and see if it sticks. I'll probably be hit over the head by a few of you in the process, but its not like the nerve endings haven't already been destroyed in prior whallopings...

Is it possible that many folks only place value on historical buildings once the wrecking ball has made them more scarce? I mean, if period architectural styles were truely so magnificent, then why did we move on from them? I would propose that within any given period, we take what is contemporary for granted because it is ubiquitous. We don't value what we're building today in the same way as we value what has been made scarce as a result of the prior generation's lack of value for what was contemporary to them.

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Niche, give it up. Everyone has their own reason for appreciating old structures. I will say, however, that I stayed out of this thread, because I know that the warehouse had flood plain issues. It really was not going to be salvageable. As much as I appreciate its style, the effort to save Houston's vanishing history would be better spent elsewhere.

Nice attempt to deflect your shallow view of anything historical by challenging everyone else, though.

EDIT: Oh. My own personal attachment to historical structures is based on the overengineering of them, as well as the architectural detailing. They were built to last for centuries, versus the 40 lifespan of today's crap. Ironically, it is the very thing you espouse (highest and best use) that annoys me in today's structures. It is hard to get attached to something that probably will not outlive me.

Edited by RedScare
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Niche, give it up. Everyone has their own reason for appreciating old structures. I will say, however, that I stayed out of this thread, because I know that the warehouse had flood plain issues. It really was not going to be salvageable. As much as I appreciate its style, the effort to save Houston's vanishing history would be better spent elsewhere.

Nice attempt to deflect your shallow view of anything historical by challenging everyone else, though.

EDIT: Oh. My own personal attachment to historical structures is based on the overengineering of them, as well as the architectural detailing. They were built to last for centuries, versus the 40 lifespan of today's crap. Ironically, it is the very thing you espouse (highest and best use) that annoys me in today's structures. It is hard to get attached to something that probably will not outlive me.

I have an interest in why people do the things they do. Especially when it doesn't appear to be a objectively rational course of action. After all, if so many people value something for a reason that is presently beyond my comprehension, then perhaps I'd stand to gain a fuller comprehension by challenging those people...or not...but hey, I tried. ...I guess that just reflects on what a pathetic and shallow person that I evidently am, according to you, oh wise and infallible one. -_-

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I'm going to throw an idea out there and see if it sticks. I'll probably be hit over the head by a few of you in the process, but its not like the nerve endings haven't already been destroyed in prior whallopings...

Is it possible that many folks only place value on historical buildings once the wrecking ball has made them more scarce? I mean, if period architectural styles were truely so magnificent, then why did we move on from them? I would propose that within any given period, we take what is contemporary for granted because it is ubiquitous. We don't value what we're building today in the same way as we value what has been made scarce as a result of the prior generation's lack of value for what was contemporary to them.

in torvald's original thread, she mentions that she couldn't find the original thread. I think it dated back to 04 or 05... that building has long been appreciated by many, but unfortunatley, not many who could preserve it.

and no bashing, you are right...that's why we want to preserve what's LEFT. cause there isn't much!!! I'm not a fan of a lot of styles that are loved by many, that doesn't mean that many don't love that style. Take the gawd awful redo over that conienance store on Main and Lamar...TACKY! but in its day, it was fresh and modern. do I want to preserve it, NO (I'd rather have whats underneath) but do I kinda appreciate it for the style of the times? sure...

antiques are a good parallel...if you ran across a, hmmmm, some old fancy schmancy gun that took 10min to load and a ton of work to maintain, but it could still be used, and there were only a handful of them left...what would you think if someone melted that down to make a new modern gun that could shoot off umpteen rounds in 10min but would only last 10 years? (I have no idea why guns came into my head...but there you go :D, the parallel can be made with anything old that was utilitarian that has since been changed...my Dad just got me a cool old branding iron that I shudder to think what he paid for...same theory applies...)

Edited by wendyps
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I have an interest in why people do the things they do. Especially when it doesn't appear to be a objectively rational course of action. After all, if so many people value something for a reason that is presently beyond my comprehension, then perhaps I'd stand to gain a fuller comprehension by challenging those people...or not...but hey, I tried. ...I guess that just reflects on what a pathetic and shallow person that I evidently am, according to you, oh wise and infallible one. -_-

For me and probably a lot of others, it's a combination of a romantic view of the past, a fresh appreciation for a style that is old because it is now unique, even more so if it's actually got beautiful details, and as Red mentioned, they were usually built better. There is also a deeper appreciation that is born of knowledge. When you understand things about the period, how the style evolved, any regional variations, who the architect was, maybe the story behind the building; all these things deepen one's affection for the building. And, a lot of people just think that it's very cool to turn an old building into something useful today, without knowing or caring about all the other stuff I mentioned.

I remember when I was a little boy and the streets were filled still with the 50s cars; rounded hulks. I thought they were ugly then and still did for many years afterwards. My grandparents had a 56 Chevy Belair and I remember telling her when I was maybe 5 that I prefered the new, more rectangular cars that were coming out. She jokingly said I could get out and walk if I wanted to. :) Now, I think those 50s cars are beautiful.

I also like a lot of the newer buildings. The new modern townhome style with the various squared sections I like. The Galvalume shed style is very period already and I think were quite clever and innovative. I think our DT skyline is filled with gems, even the cold and criticized Brutalist ones.

So it's beyond logic, it's more of a fetish, a love of utilitarian art and history. A city with a nice collection of old and new becomes a richer environment for those sensitive enough to notice such things.

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I'm going to throw an idea out there and see if it sticks. I'll probably be hit over the head by a few of you in the process, but its not like the nerve endings haven't already been destroyed in prior whallopings...

Is it possible that many folks only place value on historical buildings once the wrecking ball has made them more scarce? I mean, if period architectural styles were truely so magnificent, then why did we move on from them? I would propose that within any given period, we take what is contemporary for granted because it is ubiquitous. We don't value what we're building today in the same way as we value what has been made scarce as a result of the prior generation's lack of value for what was contemporary to them.

I live in an 1862 townhouse. I work in an old mill building from the 1840s. My dry cleaners, barber shop, favorite restaurants, and even local bodega are all in buildings that were built nearly 145-150 years ago. I belong to the local historical society and am very proud to live in a neighborhood that houses North America's largest Victorian era housing stock. Many other parts of Boston (Beacon Hill, Back Bay, North End, Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, Hyde Park, Roslindale, Roxbury, Fenway, etc...) are also filled with old structures that have been adapted to modern life. It's part of why Boston is so great and why the demand to live here has driven prices through the roof. Unfortunately, many parts of Boston were ruined to make way for the new such as the West End for a sterile 1960s high rise development called Charles River Park, the Sculley Square (old red light district) to make way for the most horrible brutalist architecture you will find (City Hall Plaza). Funny, it's these new places that SUCK in this town whereas people are falling all over themselves to find something older.

Stop being such a putz. This is an ARCHITECTURE site first and foremost. Of course, you're going to find tons of people who care about history, tradition, and design posting on these boards. While I agree with Red that this was not a fight worth fighting because of the flooding issues, I am wary of the larger message that keeps being sent to Houston developers; that we as a community don't care what they deliver to us beyond making sure there is adequate parking.

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I have an interest in why people do the things they do. Especially when it doesn't appear to be a objectively rational course of action. After all, if so many people value something for a reason that is presently beyond my comprehension, then perhaps I'd stand to gain a fuller comprehension by challenging those people...or not...but hey, I tried. ...I guess that just reflects on what a pathetic and shallow person that I evidently am, according to you, oh wise and infallible one. -_-

fella, are you an objectivist?

not generally speaking but an ayn rand type?

in torvald's original thread, she mentions that she couldn't find the original thread...

who you callin' a lady ms. wendyps?

am i really that eloquent?

304246695_bcd9caacab_m.jpg

Edited by torvald
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Stop being such a putz. This is an ARCHITECTURE site first and foremost. Of course, you're going to find tons of people who care about history, tradition, and design posting on these boards.

Oh, make no mistake about it--I do care about history, tradition, and design. But these concepts are not exclusive of demolition and recreation. In fact, I'd submit to you that the ephemeral nature of the City is an inherent component of history, tradition, and design.

fella, are you an objectivist?

not generally speaking but an ayn rand type?

I suppose, generally speaking. But I've read enough of her work now to want to distance myself from her by about the same extent as I distance myself from the Libertarian Party. Too much extremism.

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I suppose, generally speaking. But I've read enough of her work now to want to distance myself from her by about the same extent as I distance myself from the Libertarian Party. Too much extremism.

i have a bunch of old objectivism philosophy books

left from my ex... was about to ship 'em your way!

:lol:

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i have a bunch of old objectivism philosophy books

left from my ex... was about to ship 'em your way!

:lol:

Oh, I'll take 'em! Absolutely. I just lost half of my 2-book objectivism collection to my ex-.

I'm not anything, really, objectivist or otherwise; I guess that makes me fundamentally uncertain. Extremism is hard to escape, no matter where I look. But that doesn't mean that I've given up reading. PM me your phone number or e-mail address and lets arrange something.

THANKS! :)

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first of all, i was there today and spoke briefly with another HAIF person.

i didn't identify myself at the time which was rude and i apologize. if it

was you, please PM me.

anyhow, we were both there for the same reason: bricks.

this morning i may have found a few.

yet, when i returned an hour or so later there was another fella in overalls,

hard hat, glasses and a pony tail. he was not standing with the demolition

company, he was at the side looking for pieces, within the gate. we was

going to fresh piles of rubble and removing the detail work with a crow bar

and placing them in a pile. he had a dust mask on so i made eye contact

with him and tried to get his attention. i was interested to see if he was in

fact with a preservation society or a resale person. i called out to him with

no response. the other person who was there went over to the pile and

pointed at the stack politely. the overalled man waved his hand for them

to step back.

when we did not leave, he approached us. we asked if this was a preservation

effort of some sort and he wouldn't say... he did say that "he worked for

someone with exclusive rights to pieces recovered from the building". he said

they were not allowed to take it out, only to retrieve it once it fell. i said i was

happy that he was salvaging the pieces and they weren't just going into the

regular bin to be hauled off. he asked the other HAIFer and i if we had arrived

together and i said no, we were interested in maybe getting a brick, for nostalgic

purposes. he then let us know that we could go to a brick retailer off of I-10

and get the same bricks... which would lead me to believe that he's not a

preservation kind of guy. we mentioned that we just wanted "a brick" from the

building for nostalgic/romanticized reasons.

he then said the person with the salvage rights (not sure if that's the term) "would

be pretty mad if people were taking things, not mad but it wouldn't be good". he

also stated that "some one or some people were arrested saturday morning for

taking bricks. not just bricks but wood and metal items".

is there a way to verify if someone has been recently arrested at the site for looting/

trespassing, saturday or otherwise. during the time we spoke to him the demolition

men were not around so i could not verify the gentleman with them.

Edited by torvald
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he then let us know that we could go to a brick retailer off of I-10

and get the same bricks... which would lead me to believe that he's not a

preservation kind of guy. we mentioned that we just wanted "a brick" from the

building for nostalgic/romanticized reasons.

he then said the person with the salvage rights (not sure if that's the term) "would

be pretty mad if people were taking things, not mad but it wouldn't be good". he

also stated that "some one or some people were arrested saturday morning for

taking bricks. not just bricks but wood and metal items".

is there a way to verify if someone has been recently arrested at the site for looting/

trespassing, saturday or otherwise. during the time we spoke to him the demolition

men were not around so i could not verify the gentleman with them.

i *hope* that wasn't a AAA demolition guy - they seemed to be nice folks in the past :(

the only way i know of to see about HPD incidents is to check their statistics (which have a lag of about a month or two, anyhow).

this area is beat 1A20, but i doubt anyone can get information that freely.

anyhow, it's odd that the guy was being secretive, and threw in the little story of the arrests (although they might have been hauling large amounts to make some money).

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That was me!

See my post about 30 threads up. Get out there with a hard hat, a little flashing light on your truck and act like you know what you are doing! You can also print up a fake work order to seal the deal.

Most normal folks will never mess with you.

HPD does not have the time to adddress brick-stealers!

j/k - it was not me, but this is how you do it.

PRINT IT

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i *hope* that wasn't a AAA demolition guy - they seemed to be nice folks in the past :(

the only way i know of to see about HPD incidents is to check their statistics (which have a lag of about a month or two, anyhow).

this area is beat 1A20, but i doubt anyone can get information that freely.

anyhow, it's odd that the guy was being secretive, and threw in the little story of the arrests (although they might have been hauling large amounts to make some money).

i get the feeling the uppity overall guy wasn't with AAA. actually,

he was pretty fancy and the AAA fellas have been polite before.

i almost get the feeling that he was the man with the salvage

rights that he referred to.

Edited by torvald
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Just discovered this site and have been enjoying these Montrose threads over morning coffee...

2 comments come to mind: If it is so flood prone as to be worthy of abandonment, why the heck are they putting a big Muslim center there and what is expected to part the waters? I am assuming that at this location the flood wall scheme being used in the med center would not be adequate.

As to the utility/shoddy building discussion, I am not so pessimistic. It doesn't do anything if a nice older structure has been wiped to make room, but look at how the market speaks to buildings like the Metropolis (West Gray) versus Tremont Tower (Westheimer). "The people" seem to get it. They don't want to live in ugly, crappy places. Success motive alone should lead a developer by the nose to better decision making.

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Just discovered this site and have been enjoying these Montrose threads over morning coffee...

If it is so flood prone as to be worthy of abandonment, why the heck are they putting a big Muslim center there and what is expected to part the waters? I am assuming that at this location the flood wall scheme being used in the med center would not be adequate.

Welcome to HAIF. :)

In order to obtain a construction permit from the City of Houston, the new structure will have to be designed in such a way as to be removed from the 100-year floodplain. This can be done in any of several ways, and is relatively easy to accomplish with new construction. Removing an existing building from the 100-year floodplain, on the other hand, is extremely difficult and costly. Considering that the old warehouse was not large (vertical) enough to accomodate a very high unit density, the economics of such a preservation-oriented project were basically shot all to hell.

Edited by TheNiche
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  • 1 month later...

Here is another one:

I was driving past bunker Hill @ Gaylord and I saw a sign about a large development going to go up. I passed by too quickly to even get the name, but it certainly caught my attention. Anyone know about this?

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  • 1 month later...
saw the "for sale" sign covered by a texas asbestos removal sign...

is this a clue if the building is going for a revamp or demolition?

(did a search and couldn't find another current thread.)

I can't believe this site will not be mixed use.... :(

Edited by greenplease
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It's amazing to drive by that spot now - it's just a flat piece of dirt.....with some green spray-on grass seed over by the new apartments....(at least before it rained!)

i'll bet it's a lake with the rain we're getting here!

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  • 1 year later...
We'll make a preservationist out of you yet, Niche. ;)

Your statement does brings to light one problem; car culture is too fast to take in architectural details like that, and that could be one reason that Houston has lost so many. New York, on the other hand, seems to have strong preservationist bloodlines. L.A....sort of.

But anyway, if more people were able to slow down and enjoy beauty like this, we might see less destruction of these treasures.

I personally believe you either have an eye for architectural details, or you don't (No matter how fast your car is going). Of course, most people on the HAIF forum do. My car never has a problem slowing down, when a bldg. catches my eye. All those others behind me can just "!@#$%^&*". I'm gonna look. I admired the Sears bldg. for many years. Just figures, it's gone too. The Houston I grew up with is slowly just disappearing. :angry:

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a fence now surrounds the perimeter and tiny red flags dot the property. something's going on.

I'll be interested to see if it is really going to be the mosque. I liked the old building, but I also have pictures of it after Allison where water came halfway up the side of the building along Montrose. From what I've heard about the mosques that these particular folks put up, we might get something great in its place. I'm a preservationist, but I also believe that sometimes good old things have to go to make way for the good old stuff of tomorrow. Just as long as they replace it with somethig as interesting as what was there, I'll be happy. Unfortunately that rarely happens around here.

This is a link to the Ismaili center in London. It's obviously on a much smaller piece of property, but it's definitely more intersting than another Alexan apartment.

http://archnet.org/library/images/one-imag...;image_id=38754

Edited by capnmcbarnacle
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I'll be interested to see if it is really going to be the mosque. I liked the old building, but I also have pictures of it after Allison where water came halfway up the side of the building along Montrose. From what I've heard about the mosques that these particular folks put up, we might get something great in its place. I'm a preservationist, but I also believe that sometimes good old things have to go to make way for the good old stuff of tomorrow. Just as long as they replace it with somethig as interesting as what was there, I'll be happy. Unfortunately that rarely happens around here.

This is a link to the Ismaili center in London. It's obviously on a much smaller piece of property, but it's definitely more intersting than another Alexan apartment.

http://archnet.org/library/images/one-imag...;image_id=38754

Agree,

IMO the old building was just built in the wrong place to begin with. Was just to obtrusive and close to the street. Just wonder if any of the facade or anything was saved? :(

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Agree,

IMO the old building was just built in the wrong place to begin with. Was just to obtrusive and close to the street. Just wonder if any of the facade or anything was saved? :(

I saved a brick. Would have loved to get some of that Art Deco ornamentation....

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This was a large, full-service retail store, maybe the first outside of the CBD. It only became a warehouse after the flood.

There is just such a callous attitude here and that, more than anything, has me negative about Houston at times. We lack a good balance between historic and new. One of the reasons I like city living is the get the feeling of history and it's that same feeling that makes suburban living so unappealing. Plain buildings become something else when they survive the decades. Even plain buildings become special to a degree when they survive a long time, and this one wasn't plain, it started out special.

Anyway, we've talked this point into the ground but hopefully the so-called urban renaissance and all of those who are responsible for it are also sensitive to these things and so the ordinances will eventually change as the city's people continue to.

Please, the Robinson Public Warehouse has been a warehouse since at least 1950, so what flood are you talking about?

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  • Highrise Tower changed the title to Aga Khan Foundation: Islamic Community Center, First In U.S

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