Some Democrats Gung-Ho over taking N.Korea out !

[nmainguy]

There's an outside chance his own military may do the dirty work for us. After all, Mr. Hair-do shot off a 45 second dud just hours after the world watched us launch a flawless shuttle mission to the space station.

How embarasink!

[johncoby]

The one missile that we asked not to be fired was fired, and broke after about a minute of flight. Good news for US, but, the fact that he disregarded the request will be interesting to see how it gets dealt with.

Let's throw a little "DIPLOMACY" at him !

Yea. W is going to take his thumb out of his back end and fart on him.

[TJones]

Yea. W is going to take his thumb out of his back end and fart on him.

WHat would you see like to happen john ?

[johncoby]

WHat would you see like to happen john ?

You know, that is a good question. I started answering with the first thing to do that is, fire Rumsfeld, but then it made my head hurt to much to think how to fix the complete and total screw ups of this stupid president.

I could write an essay. But not now. Idiot of a president. We know have countries test firing missiles, working on nuclear technology and what does this president do? Attack a country that was doing neither.

You're doing a hell of a job W.

[TJones]

You know, that is a good question. I started answering with the first thing to do that is, fire Rumsfeld, but then it made my head hurt to much to think how to fix the complete and total screw ups of this stupid president.

I could write an essay. But not now. Idiot of a president. We know have countries test firing missiles, working on nuclear technology and what does this president do? Attack a country that was doing neither.

You're doing a hell of a job W.

Your right john, I mean after all W. IS the one that held closed talk sessions with Kim Jon Il, and decided to give N.Korea nuclear technology on the promise that N.Korea would NEVER use the spent Plutonium to make weapons. You are right John.

Wait a second here, it seems that N.Korea had Nuclear technology way back in 1994. Well, that can't be right john, Bush didn't take office until 2001, hmmmmmmmm........something is amiss here. If Bush wasn't in office to give N.Korea nuclear technlogy, then who was ? John, ask that "ever flowing river of knowledge" you call a brain, who was President when N.Korea gained Nuclear power ? Oh, and who handed the technology over to them ?

It's Bush's fault that N.Korea has Nuclear capabilities ? That is PRICELESS john ! I asked myself a question the other day. "Which would I rather have ? A million dollars, or johncoby's head full of nickels ?" I couldn't decide.

[DJ V Lawrence]

To be honest, I'm surprised that Kim Jong-Il can keep his missile up for only 45 seconds. No wonder he's isolated

[johncoby]

Your right john, I mean after all W. IS the one that held closed talk sessions with Kim Jon Il, and decided to give N.Korea nuclear technology on the promise that N.Korea would NEVER use the spent Plutonium to make weapons. You are right John.

Wait a second here, it seems that N.Korea had Nuclear technology way back in 1994. Well, that can't be right john, Bush didn't take office until 2001, hmmmmmmmm........something is amiss here. If Bush wasn't in office to give N.Korea nuclear technoogy, then who was ? John, ask that "ever flowing river of knowledge" you call a brain, who was President when N.Korea gained Nuclear power ? Oh, and who handed the technology over to them ?

It's Bush's fault that N.Korea has Nuclear capabilities ? That is PRICELESS john ! I asked myself a question the other day. "Which would I rather have ? A million dollars, or johncoby's head full of nickels ?" I couldn't decide.

You and 36% of the American people are swimming in the river of denial. You just can't believe that your president has screwed up everything he has touched. He is a complete failure in foriegn policy and everything else, and has set us back centuries.

Before he was selected, we had Iran, Iraq, and North Korea in control. Now, they all are out of our control. Way to go W, you're doing a heck of a job.

Enjoy the water.

[TheNiche]

he already did...in 1994. kim il sung is "the eternal president" even though he's been dead fo a while.

True enough...but somehow I doubt that the present Kim will leave behind so smooth a succession plan.

WHat would you see like to happen john ?

Let's assume that you took office in 2000 instead of Bush and before a period that you believe to be completely mistaken. Things haven't yet been screwed up, at least as far as you are concerned.

You seem to have identified DPRK as a true military threat.

Without going off on a tangent regarding any other issues, what would you have done or be doing to deal with the N. Korea issue? I'm very curious, myself, to see your response.

[TJones]

Before he was selected, we had Iran, Iraq, and North Korea in control. Now, they all are out of our control. Way to go W, you're doing a heck of a job.

North Korea didn't have the capabilities to make a "nuclear weapon" until Slick Willie handed over the keys to him, smartguy, so Yeah, they were pretty easy to control. The Ayahtollah was a brittle oldman whose religion came first over money, Iran has new blood now and he thirsts for power and more wealth. If I know I can be a bigdog on the block, I am gonna rattle my cage also. The real problem in Iraq has been dealt with, and it takes time to rebuild and help people stand on their own.

Everyone thought Iraq was gonna be a cake walk after it only took 17 days to oust Saddam and get control of the country, and now that it has been 3 years and 2 months because of some radical jihadists, all the Dems. think it is such a failure, that the IRaqi people were better off under Saddam and letting him create genocide in his own country. What, you think America just signed The Declaration of Independence and England just went away? The Revolutionary War was from 1775 to 1783, took us 8 years to get through that, and how long do you think it took to rebuild after ? Democracy takes time to build, and when you have a bunch of turds in the punchbowl blowing up IEDs at every corner turning it into a Guerilla War, it will take longer than expected, but there never was a SET timetable for Iraq.

John, are you saying that all these countries were out of control before or after 9/11 ? I don't need you to write an essay, just 500 words or less of your grievances about our Commander in Cheif. How has your life personally changed since Bush has taken office ?

[johncoby]

North Korea didn't have the capabilities to make a "nuclear weapon" until Slick Willie handed over the keys to him, smartguy, so Yeah, they were pretty easy to control. The Ayahtollah was a brittle oldman whose religion came first over money, Iran has new blood now and he thirsts for power and more wealth. If I know I can be a bigdog on the block, I am gonna rattle my cage also. The real problem in Iraq has been dealt with, and it takes time to rebuild and help people stand on their own.

Everyone thought Iraq was gonna be a cake walk after it only took 17 days to oust Saddam and get control of the country, and now that it has been 3 years and 2 months because of some radical jihadists, all the Dems. think it is such a failure, that the IRaqi people were better off under Saddam and letting him create genocide in his own country. What, you think America just signed The Declaration of Independence and England just went away? The Revolutionary War was from 1775 to 1783, took us 8 years to get through that, and how long do you think it took to rebuild after ? Democracy takes time to build, and when you have a bunch of turds in the punchbowl blowing up IEDs at every corner turning it into a Guerilla War, it will take longer than expected, but there never was a SET timetable for Iraq.

John, are you saying that all these countries were out of control before or after 9/11 ? I don't need you to write an essay, just 500 words or less of your grievances about our Commander in Cheif. How has your life personally changed since Bush has taken office ?

That was fast! Blame it on Clinton. Good come back. What other excuses do you have? Since that is the only thing you have left?

[TJones]

That was fast! Blame it on Clinton. Good come back. What other excuses do you have? Since that is the only thing you have left?

Truth hurts don't it ? I only pointed out to you how N.Korea got the nukes, but I guess you are still thinking Bush gave N.Korea nuclear power somehow. Instead of you skating around the questions I pose to you, why don't you try to step up and answer one for a change. Here is an easy one. How has YOUR life changed since Pres. Bush has been in office ?

[DJ V Lawrence]

You and 36% of the American people are swimming in the river of denial. You just can't believe that your president has screwed up everything he has touched. He is a complete failure in foriegn policy and everything else, and has set us back centuries.

Before he was selected, we had Iran, Iraq, and North Korea in control. Now, they all are out of our control. Way to go W, you're doing a heck of a job.

That's not ENTIRELY accurate...

G W Bush has not done a great job on foriegn policy, but that's not because of Iran and N. Korea (even though that "Axis Of Evil" speech didn't help any). That's mainly because of mixed fellings on the Iraq war. Prior to that war, thanks to his strong stance after 9/11, the country and the world seemed united on his side.

Iran's had a history of kidnapping Americans, and I haven't heard of that happening since Bush took office.

Back to N. Korea. It's NEVER been in control. It's been this twisted a situation since Korea divided over 50 years ago. The fact that it's a problem now is not Bush's fault. There's nothing he nor any President can do in my opinion to end the stand-off peacefully overnight. I'd love to eventually see North Korea and the States have bilateral direct talks, but that can't happen until North Korea stops making demands and start compromising. The people in North Korea only know the information that their media give them, and I'm pretty sure they may never find out that their long range missile failed. It wouldn't surprise me if their media lies to them and says it was the U.S. tampered with it. On tv, they blame the U.S. for their famines and their country's problems. Those in North Korea who question that get sent to concentration camps (similar to the Holocaust.)

All North Korea wants is pride. Trust me, if North Korea ever won a gold medal or a Word Championship in something, it would be highly talked about. But until that happens, they never report their teams losing. When North Korea lost at home against Iran in World Cup qualifying, the 150,000-seat stadium turned into a battlezone. Their government is the same way. They want to be seen as a country with a world influence, and they don't want to be seen as a nation that had to give something up to get that influence. They want to be seen as a nation that demanded to be heard, and was heard with the world kissing Kim Jung-Il's feet. It sounds childish. That's because it IS childish, and that isn't Bush's fault...

[nmainguy]

That's because it IS childish, and that isn't Bush's fault...

Or Clinton's or Bush 41's or Reagan's or Carter's or Ford's or etc...

This country is a CULT people. It's all about you-know-who. He and his father broke and continue to break every agreement made with anyone any where. You will never successfully negotiate in good faith with a cult. That's where we've made our mistake. The best we can hope for is an internal collapse [which China could surely speed up]. If we try to go after them militarily, there's a good chance Kim would unleash his military across the DMZ and you'll never see so much Korean and American blood run in the streets in a lifetime.

I don't have a solution but I don't think our government has a viable one either. It's just more of the same until we realize we really are dealing with a cult. It's like a big Waco waiting to happen.

[TheNiche]

True enough...but somehow I doubt that the present Kim will leave behind so smooth a succession plan.

Let's assume that you took office in 2000 instead of Bush and before a period that you believe to be completely mistaken. Things haven't yet been screwed up, at least as far as you are concerned.

You seem to have identified DPRK as a true military threat.

Without going off on a tangent regarding any other issues, what would you have done or be doing to deal with the N. Korea issue? I'm very curious, myself, to see your response.

Note to self: johncoby seems to have avoided answering my question.

[Jeebus]

If we try to go after them militarily, there's a good chance Kim would unleash his military across the DMZ and you'll never see so much Korean and American blood run in the streets in a lifetime.

I don't have a solution but I don't think our government has a viable one either.

Without China 100% onboard for an invasion, you are 100% correct. In fact, I wouldn't want us to have anything to do with an invasion unless I knew South Korea was on our heels and stayed as the occupying force, rejoining the country. Of course it would take all those factors, coupled with about 4 weeks of strategic bombing sorties against every bit of Kim's 1960's era defense network - before I would be on board.

I don't think it would take much to turn North Korean's against Kim either once there. Can you imagine how many families will reunite? In a matter of days most NK's will have learned how they have been in the dark for the last 50 years from their SK relatives.

Those poor clueless people. Its coming though - if not in my lifetime, my child's. Lets just hope our political leaders get it right this time.

[johncoby]

Truth hurts don't it ? I only pointed out to you how N.Korea got the nukes, but I guess you are still thinking Bush gave N.Korea nuclear power somehow. Instead of you skating around the questions I pose to you, why don't you try to step up and answer one for a change. Here is an easy one. How has YOUR life changed since Pres. Bush has been in office ?

I got $600 in a tax rebate.

My home insurance went up by 105%, I am paying $780/year more and have less coverage

Gasoline is costing my family $3400/year MORE

My daughter college fund has yet to recover and she is just 2 years away.

My retirement fund is still 25% less than it was before W

College costs are up by 33%

Home taxes have climbed steadily since 2001 when it was stable during the nineties.

My kids schools cancelled bus service due to budget cuts

How has my life changed?

Of course, Clinton did it.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I got $600 in a tax rebate.

My home insurance went up by 105%, I am paying $780/year more and have less coverage

Gasoline is costing my family $3400/year MORE

My daughter college fund has yet to recover and she is just 2 years away.

My retirement fund is still 25% less than it was before W

College costs are up by 33%

Home taxes have climbed steadily since 2001 when it was stable during the nineties.

My kids schools cancelled bus service due to budget cuts

How has my life changed?

Of course, Clinton did it.

What has Bush done wrong in terms of handling Pyongyang?

[TheNiche]

Note to self: johncoby seems to have avoided answering my question.

Note to self: johncoby again seems to have avoided answering my question.

Edit: Hmmm...I notice that he's posting in other threads...I wonder why not this one.

[HeightsGuy]

This is so unlike the Dems. I am SHOCKED, they are finally showing a little backbone. Well, at least a couple of them are.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060624/ap_on_...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Back to the original topic..... TJones, being Democrat doesn't mean being a pacifist. Please don't forget that. I, like many other liberals, had and continue to have no objection to military action in Afganistan. Please don't take our objection to the conflict in Iraq to mean we do not favor military action when it's warranted.

If memory serves, most Republicans were against action in Bosnia. I don't remember people saying Republicans didn't have a backbone at the time. I even seem to remember a quote from our own Tom DeLay saying to the effect that it's possible to support the troops without supporting the president.

[nmainguy]

What has Bush done wrong in terms of handling Pyongyang?

You can't "handle" Pyongyang like you would deal with any other country. That's where we've always missed the boat. The country is a cult and the leader has no desire to compromise with us or any other government. It's all about him-it has to be. If you live in N. Korea, you have a picture of him and his father in your home. You have a speaker box on the wall that has no on/off switch. You wake up to it and go to sleep to it. These arn't options. They are required. So how do you "handle" a megalomaniac like that? Give him everything he wants? He'll only want more. Here's your end product:

[RedScare]

Apparently, JC is like a few Republicans I know, who can never admit Bush is wrong, so I'll say it. Bush is doing the only thing he reasonably can do, which is to use diplomacy, in concert with building an international condemnation of N. Korea and it's actions. Some carrots will be dangled too, if N. Korea shows signs of cooperation. Sure, there will occasionally be episodes of sabre rattling from Pyongyang, but doling out some economic incentives every few years while we wait for him to die beats the alternative.

Apparently, N. Korea's missiles are not as advanced as they would like them to be, so his threats are diminished somewhat. This makes the number of carrots we need to dangle a few less.

[HeightsGuy]

I don't understand what people are afraid of in regards to North Korea. If Bush is looking for an easy war he need look no further. It isn't 1950 anymore. North Korea's army doesn't have enough food or fuel to drill, all they really do is just sit there by the thousands waiting for a war that doesn't come. A few weeks of precision bombing takes out the entire infrastructure of the army, leaving them with thousands of soldiers with no ammo, fuel or food. It would be a brutal slaughter. China has too much at stake as a trading partner with us so they would protest but not too loudly and secretly breathe a sigh of relief about the same nukes being gone, and Bush would get his mass of people welcoming us with open arms that he was looking for in Iraq.

If you ask me, it's what we should have done instead of the WOMD two-step in Iraq. Oh, wait, we went to iraq to bring down an evil dictator, isn't that the story this week?

North Korea also has an evil dictator, oh, and certified WOMD's. I guess it's too bad North Korea has nothing to offer except millions of starving children.

[TheNiche]

I don't understand what people are afraid of in regards to North Korea. If Bush is looking for an easy war he need look no further. It isn't 1950 anymore. North Korea's army doesn't have enough food or fuel to drill, all they really do is just sit there by the thousands waiting for a war that doesn't come. A few weeks of precision bombing takes out the entire infrastructure of the army, leaving them with thousands of soldiers with no ammo, fuel or food. It would be a brutal slaughter. China has too much at stake as a trading partner with us so they would protest but not too loudly and secretly breathe a sigh of relief about the same nukes being gone, and Bush would get his mass of people welcoming us with open arms that he was looking for in Iraq.

If you ask me, it's what we should have done instead of the WOMD two-step in Iraq. Oh, wait, we went to iraq to bring down an evil dictator, isn't that the story this week?

North Korea also has an evil dictator, oh, and certified WOMD's. I guess it's too bad North Korea has nothing to offer except millions of starving children.

Easy war? This would be anything but.

Bear in mind that DPRK's territory (and artillery emplacements) extend to within about 25 miles of downtown Seoul and that the Seoul National Capital Area has a population of about 23 million. Also bear in mind that about a third of DPRK's GDP is allocated to military investments. Make no mistake about it: the first sign of preemptive military action on our part would result in Seoul being turned into a firestorm.

We'd certainly win, and I think that it'd be a relatively short-lived war, but it'd make the civilian casualty figures from Iraq look like a walk through the park. I doubt that the S. Koreans would ever forgive us.

[DJ V Lawrence]

You can't "handle" Pyongyang like you would deal with any other country. That's where we've always missed the boat. The country is a cult and the leader has no desire to compromise with us or any other government. It's all about him-it has to be. If you live in N. Korea, you have a picture of him and his father in your home. You have a speaker box on the wall that has no on/off switch. You wake up to it and go to sleep to it. These arn't options. They are required. So how do you "handle" a megalomaniac like that? Give him everything he wants? He'll only want more. Here's your end product:

Kim Jong-Il's desire is to see North Korea as an economic power like it's neighbors, but with their style of government, and with him as leader. He's seen as North Korea's god because he's the one that provides them food, water, and shelter. The aid the world gives the country first goes to him and the military, then to political leaders and others that support him by doing certain jobs, like being human stop-lights (not exaggerating). Anyone considered weak or not working in that job is left out in a canibalist village or concentration camp. The picture Nmainguy posted up is probably kids of a farmer, who can't eat right now because the farmland is deplete.

You may have heard North Korea say that if sanctions and aid is cut short from the U.S. or the U.N. that they would consider it a declaration of war. That's because that's the ONLY food coming in to the military and the upper-class. No more aid fod North Korea means the military would starve the same way people are in the slum villages, which would put their only source of income in a desperate state, and force the country to find food elsewhere or die. Yep, their military eats because us taxpayers feed them.

Now to Bush. I think Bush is in a good position because he does not want this to be a Pyongyang-Washington D.C. issue, and the missile tests assured that fate as not likely. North Korea want direct talks with Bush because they could try to "give up" their weapons program and WMD factories in exchange for more food and power for it's troops and upper-classmen (the lower class would still be left out unless the U.S. were to donate fertilizer for farmland.) Now that Japan's pissed, they are saying "no food from us" because of the tests, and DPRK's probably gonna get angry right back and threaten Japan for trying to sanction them.

The BEST thing that can happen for the U.S. right now is if DPRK launches another missile test in the near future. If that happens, expect China to go hardcore on sanctions, and DPRK would never want to threaten China, their biggest financer and trader. And Bush is smart for backing Japan's resolution instead of writing it himself. Let the border nations raise their voice so the world knows it's not a two-nation debate.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Im happy no one listened to that stupid jackass Perry. He wanted to shoot the missles down or blow it up on the pad. Stupid freak. Im still waiting on that clown to do the right thing, which he wont do because hes an idiot!

[nmainguy]

Im happy no one listened to that stupid jackass Perry. He wanted to shoot the missles down or blow it up on the pad. Stupid freak. Im still waiting on that clown to do the right thing, which he wont do because hes an idiot!

I was hoping they would put someone stable like you in charge...

____________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2537

Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6

Total 2543

DoD Confirmation List

Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 08, 2006

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I was hoping they would put someone stable like you in charge...

____________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2537

Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6

Total 2543

DoD Confirmation List

Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 08, 2006

NONSENSICAL

[nmainguy]

Im happy no one listened to that stupid jackass Perry. He wanted to shoot the missles down or blow it up on the pad. Stupid freak. Im still waiting on that clown to do the right thing, which he wont do because hes an idiot!

DRUNK

____________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2537

Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6

Total 2543

DoD Confirmation List

Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 08, 2006

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

DRUNK

____________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2537

Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6

Total 2543

DoD Confirmation List

Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 08, 2006

Back on this again. Some people never learn. You are living proof Queens isnt just a place in New York............

[nmainguy]

Back on this again. Some people never learn. You are living proof Queens isnt just a place in New York............

DRUNK HOMOPHOBE.

_______________________________________________________________________________

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2537

Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6

Total 2543

DoD Confirmation List

Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 08, 2006