Houston "Vision Zero" project

[samagon 3446]

I haven't seen this anywhere, but it is asking for input, both in the form of pins on a map, and survey for ways to reduce deaths on the streets of Houston.

 

https://www.houstontx.gov/visionzero/index.html

[HouTXRanger 304]

Just saw this today: That terrible intersection at Bagby/Elgin/Westheimer is finally getting some work done, looks like Bagby is losing that crappy turn lane AND a travel lane! Really awesome small scale stuff. Hope we get to see more soon!

https://mailchi.mp/houstontx/montrose-midtown-initiative

Edited April 7 by HouTXRanger

[Triton 12043]

Maybe I don't understand the final design here but why such a sharp right turn now?

[wilcal 1963]

5 hours ago, Triton said:

Maybe I don't understand the final design here but why such a sharp right turn now?

It is right where Elgin transitions to Westheimer and the curb will align with that transition. 

[trymahjong 614]

There is also discussion on this intersection in the Montrose section

 Under thread “ M “ monument.

District C has monies to pay for cut removal and barricades to close down right hand turn lane going south on Bagby towards Westheimer

[samagon 3446]

shall there no longer be the ability to turn right onto Westheimer from Bagby?

while this might be great news for the walkability of that intersection, it seems it's bad news for Avondale and Helena, as that's how people are going to end up turning right.

[Texasota 3166]

Why would this eliminate turning right? It just turns it into a normal 3 way intersection.

[samagon 3446]

perhaps I am reading HouTXranger's post wrong?

[Texasota 3166]

They're removing the little slip lane that currently serves as the means by which you turn right onto Westheimer. That *could* mean they are also eliminating right turn lanes completely, but they definitely don't have to. I'm also not sure why they would.

All we've seen is this rough illustration, so we don't actually know what the final configuration will look like. But eliminating right turns would be a choice they would make that is not required by eliminating the little chunk of lane they're talking about.

[HouTXRanger 304]

I don't see why they would eliminate the ability to make right turns. It is still a major street and all. The biggest thing is eliminating the slip lane and shortening the number of lanes people have to cross.

[Texasota 3166]

Also, for what it's worth, the planned Lower Westheimer rebuild (http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/transportation/CMP/LowerWestheimer/docs_pdfs/intersections.pdf), which includes this project, has Bagby as 2 southbound lanes and a dedicated turn lane.

[wilcal 1963]

55 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Also, for what it's worth, the planned Lower Westheimer rebuild (http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/transportation/CMP/LowerWestheimer/docs_pdfs/intersections.pdf), which includes this project, has Bagby as 2 southbound lanes and a dedicated turn lane.

That is honestly the way it should be.

There is a 0% chance that right turns will be eliminated. It is just the slip lane that is being removed. 

[samagon 3446]

5 hours ago, Texasota said:

They're removing the little slip lane that currently serves as the means by which you turn right onto Westheimer. That *could* mean they are also eliminating right turn lanes completely, but they definitely don't have to. I'm also not sure why they would.

All we've seen is this rough illustration, so we don't actually know what the final configuration will look like. But eliminating right turns would be a choice they would make that is not required by eliminating the little chunk of lane they're talking about.

that's exactly how I read it, which means a right turn will be a very acute angle (a cute angel?). which is why I theorize that people will choose Avondale and Helena as the 'easier' right turn.

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Also, for what it's worth, the planned Lower Westheimer rebuild (http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/transportation/CMP/LowerWestheimer/docs_pdfs/intersections.pdf), which includes this project, has Bagby as 2 southbound lanes and a dedicated turn lane.

this actually shows a much easier turn than the other picture depicts.

[Texasota 3166]

Again, the other picture is meant to be broadly representative of what's planned. It's not necessarily showing the exact angles of the final project or anything.

But even if it were, do you really think that people would avoid it because its a somewhat tighter right turn than normal? Just to have to then jog right back to Westheimer on Helena? I find that hard to believe. But then it doesn't look like a particularly difficult turn to me. 

[Triton 12043]

49 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Again, the other picture is meant to be broadly representative of what's planned. It's not necessarily showing the exact angles of the final project or anything.

But even if it were, do you really think that people would avoid it because its a somewhat tighter right turn than normal? Just to have to then jog right back to Westheimer on Helena? I find that hard to believe. But then it doesn't look like a particularly difficult turn to me. 

This sort of right turn would be just fine:

This right turn, on the other hand, would absolutely pose an issue for trucks bringing in supplies to businesses down Westheimer:

That's way too sharp a right turn and you would undoubtedly see that curb taking heavy damage with people constantly running over it.

 

[hindesky 51346]

I use the far right lane all the time to get into my neighborhood in my car and bicycle, I really like it and now I'm going to have to fight everyone else to be able to get to the Hawthorne lane. Losing that angled lane to get on Westheimer is really going to gum up the intersection. Like Triton said trucks are going to take up all the lanes to get on Westheimer by swinging really wide. They need to add a timed light like on the protected lanes on Austin, Lamar and Gray St. for bicycles.

Edited April 8 by hindesky
Edit: Missing word.

[Texasota 3166]

I doubt they're planning this, but they could do a low curb that trucks could drive over that cars would still need to go around.

It would be interesting to find out how many trucks actually make this turn though. I genuinely have no idea, but planning for truck routing is one of those less sexy things that never gets enough attention.

[wilcal 1963]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

I use the far right lane all the time to into my neighborhood in my car and bicycle, I really like it and now I'm going to have to fight everyone else to be able to get to the Hawthorne lane. Losing that angled lane to get on Westheimer is really going to gum up the intersection. Like Triton said trucks are going to take up all the lanes to get on Westheimer by swinging really wide. They need to add a timed light like on the protected lanes on Austin, Lamar and Gray St. for bicycles.

I lived in Westmoreland for years, and I agree with what you are saying, BUT I think that there are a good number of people that don't know that the lane ends and it causes a safety hazard. Seems like the pedestrian signal at the forced turn gets knocked down every few months. 

I have never in years can ever remember a time where I have had to wait on the light for more than 1 cycle. Basically, minor inconvenience for Westhmoreland residents < safety concerns. 

Those cycle crossing lights are basically as valuable as gold for some reason. The ones that they needed to complete Gray were delayed almost a year. I think the city is going to put in a two-way bikeway on Brazos (I know, less than desirable) and are working on ways to connect it to the neighborhood bikeway that goes down Hawthorne and into Midtown at the Spur.

 

20 minutes ago, Texasota said:

I doubt they're planning this, but they could do a low curb that trucks could drive over that cars would still need to go around.

It would be interesting to find out how many trucks actually make this turn though. I genuinely have no idea, but planning for truck routing is one of those less sexy things that never gets enough attention.

That seems like a design fail to me. Honestly, I'm worried enough as it is and wish that they would include bollards to protect pedestrians no matter how "loose" the angle is.