Dallas #3

[Montrose1100]

As you all know, Dallas dropped to #3 in City population a week or so ago. Dallas is a sore loser when it came to admitting it, or so the mayor presented. I honestly think they don't have anything to worry about. The Metro of Dallas is the biggest in Texas, and they have alot of new and great exciting projects going around. San Antonio may have taken the #2 spot for Population, but when it comes to a city being over all great, Dallas is still #2 to me. I think Dallas might eventually reclaim #2, because San Antonio is only confined to its self. Nothing exciting in its metro. The City limits of San Antonio start in Fields, and where the Highway is still 4 lanes, seperated by a grass median. Until San Antonio fills up there boundaries, I don't think they will stay so big for so long. San Antonio is really the only major city that has never had a big problem with Urban Sprawl, it seems to be very centered and Downtown orientated. it always has been. Dallas on the other hand, is simply filling up the space inbetween its suburbs, creating the "Los Angeles Effect." The city limits don't have room to breathe, due to all the little cities around it. The metro will always continue to soar, but the city limits will only slowly grow. Houston is a combo of both Dallas & San Antonio. Where only building in our center, and not filling up spaces, but we do have major urban sprawl.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

I know what you mean when you said that entering San Antonio, the Highway is separated by a grass median and its just fields, as opposed to Houston where you have a Highway with 6 or 8 lanes, on the East side a huge freeway to freeway interchange which makes you feel like your in the middle of no where after coming from Baytown, on the West you have then Katy Mills Mall, and on both ends all of these new housing developments. Houston is just sprawling while San Antonio is just content to its center like you said. Tell me if I am wrong.

[HOUCAJUN]

I agree what you have said so far about san antonio, but i still prefer visiting san antonio over dallas. There is more to do in san antonio. It's the texas version of new orleans.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Also, San Antonio's metro isn't big at all.

[h-townrep]

I truley believe that San Antonio will stay number two because of those very reasons, when people move to San Antonio, they move to San Antonio, when people move to Dallas, they move to Irving, Arlington, Fort Worth and the many cities around it. Until the merger that Urban Geographers think will happened between Austin and San Antonio, it will always be a non-metro. San Antonio is amoung the 10 largest cities in America but has one of the smallest markets.

[Montrose1100]

I truley believe that San Antonio will stay number two because of those very reasons, when people move to San Antonio, they move to San Antonio, when people move to Dallas, they move to Irving, Arlington, Fort Worth and the many cities around it. Until the merger that Urban Geographers think will happened between Austin and San Antonio, it will always be a non-metro. San Antonio is amoung the 10 largest cities in America but has one of the smallest markets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the economic factor in Dallas is greater, but Dallas is creating the Los Angeles effect....

[SpaceCity]

I think Dallas is still the city for big business and San Antonio is the city for tourism. San Antonio got "bigger" by annexing land. It did not get bigger because of huge amounts of people moving in.

Dallas is landlocked. It's one of the few Texas cities that doesn't have the opportunity to annex, therefore its population will not increase as much. Hopefully Dallas will suck people in by actually making itself a better place to live.

[WestGrayGuy]

Dallas will always suffer from being a landlocked city. By this I mean, Dallas has very large thriving cities sitting on its borders. In addition, Dallasites prefer to live out in the burbs.

Most people you ask when they say they are from Dallas are really from a suburb. Example:

Where are you from?

Dallas?

Oh really, what part?

Well, Plano. (insert any other trendy suburb here; Frisco, Allen, Richardson etc)

My point is that the inner city of Dallas will not match the population increase of Houston or San Antonio and thus will remain #3 in Texas for a long while. Sure DFW may be bigger in metro size but Dallas itself will always be number 3 in city population.

[Montrose1100]

Dallas will always suffer from being a landlocked city. By this I mean, Dallas has very large thriving cities sitting on its borders.  In addition, Dallasites prefer to live out in the burbs. 

Most people you ask when they say they are from Dallas are really from a suburb.  Example: 

Where are you from?

Dallas?

Oh really, what part?

Well, Plano. (insert any other trendy suburb here; Frisco, Allen, Richardson etc)

My point is that the inner city of Dallas will not match the population increase of Houston or San Antonio and thus will remain #3 in Texas for a long while. Sure DFW may be bigger in metro size but Dallas itself will always be number 3 in city population.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats true, but here in Houston its differnt. When I talk to people from Houston, say in other places, I hear "Kingwood, Katy, Spring, The Woodlands, Suger Land, Baytown, Galveston, Texas City..." Never Do I hear suburban people mention "Houston" unless some one askes "where is that?" Its usually followed by "In Houston." Its differnt in Dallas...

[UrbaNerd]

Yeah, thats how things are. The metreoplex is divided and united at the same time.

[SpaceCity]

I wish Dallas' suburbs would quit trying to take things out of the center city. Dallas has to fight with its suburban "friends" for all sorts of development. The rich folks can move to the new development. The poor folks stay in the city. It just ain't right.

[WestGrayGuy]

Divided or united depending on the argument.

United argument:

Dallas is bigger than Houston. What is meant... DFW metro area is more poulated (also less dense) than the Houston metro area.

Divided argument:

I am from Dallas. What is meant... I am from a small suburb you have never heard near Dallas.

You have to love the attitude in Dallas. In the gay world we say people from Dallas has Dallatude.

[SpaceCity]

Please don't turn this into an anti-Dallas thread. We've been doing so well thus far. Dallas does not have the monopoly on snobs.

[Dallasite]

Please don't turn this into an anti-Dallas thread. We've been doing so well thus far. Dallas does not have the monopoly on snobs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I concur.

WestGrayGuy, you are disgracing your avatar with your words.

gig'em

[UrbaNerd]

I agree.

[WestGrayGuy]

SpaceCity:

You are right. Sometimes I let my feelings for Dallas show through.

It is a fine place to live.

[Montrose1100]

Divided or united depending on the argument.

United argument:

Dallas is bigger than Houston. What is meant... DFW metro area is more poulated (also less dense) than the Houston metro area.

Divided argument:

I am from Dallas. What is meant... I am from a small suburb you have never heard near Dallas.

You have to love the attitude in Dallas. In the gay world we say people from Dallas has Dallatude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your gay?

Because I thought I was the only one who used that term

[rantanamo]

Why do you have hateful feelings for a place? Any city the size of Dallas has a variety of people and places. It might shock most in the US, but world cities always refer to their metro. Do you think Tokyo has 30+ million people in its city limits?

[Montrose1100]

Why do you have hateful feelings for a place?  Any city the size of Dallas has a variety of people and places.  It might shock most in the US, but world cities always refer to their metro.  Do you think Tokyo has 30+ million people in its city limits?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Los Angeles Effect, Tokyo style...

Tokyo is Los Angeles, but doubled....

8,130,408 in city and 33,708,200 in metro. Besides the bay, do you think those people live in the moutains?

[Subdude]

Well, it sure doesn't take long.

Please stay on topic, folks. Losing the orignal database was a big loss, but let's use the opportunity to improve the quality of the board. Sidebar discussions can be held via PM.

Thanks.

[Montrose1100]

Subdude: If You so kindly can see, all the posts have to do with the topic, except a small portion. The one I posted last did, as it was to the comparison of Dallas & Tokyo...

[Subdude]

I wasn't singling out posts. I think my point was clear

Subdude

[tamtagon]

I'm looking at a 'Travel Texas' map from 2002 so I'm not sure if municipal boundaries have changed, but it appears that the city of Dallas still has a window of annexation opportunity in the southeastern quadrant of Dallas county, around Seagoville. Currently though, there is no compelling reason for any city to incorporate this county land. One day this area's unincorporated land could be home to a substantial suburban population. The land is pleasant with the Trinity River and suggests the Hill Country. It is probable that some very affluent neighborhoods will one day take advantage of the terain and proximity to the Dallas central business district.

Regarding city population growth through annexation, Dallas still has this option; however, much of extreme South Dallas is still rather rural, so there is a long way to go before the "LA effect" fully sets in (although I'm not really sure what the LA effect means...). With the bulk of statewide population growth expected to occur in the DFW & Houston metros, it seems certain that SE Dallas County's rural days are numbered, especially when considering that the highway to Houston runs that way.

oh - I'd expect San Antonio to keep with the annexation SOP like Houston.

[rantanamo]

Just observing the Homes section of the DMN, several new suburban subdivisions have popped up along 175. Looks like the land is beginning to be used. Dallas may be waiting for some reason to take this land. For what, I don't know, but I wouldn't wait around. The potential benefits may simply not be there yet.

[UrbanLandscape]

Most people you ask when they say they are from Dallas are really from a suburb.  Example: 

Where are you from?

Dallas?

Oh really, what part?

Well, Plano. (insert any other trendy suburb here; Frisco, Allen, Richardson etc)

Watch it about Richardson. It's anything but "trendy."

Interestingly enough, Dallas actually receives more tourism than San Antonio in raw numbers. Yeah, I don't understand it either.

[westguy]

I am from Dallas Dallas. I never lived in a burb there (but I did live very close to one). When I was younger, my mom picked our house because she did not want to have the name of a boring suburb on our address. My old neighborhood is getting gentrified. Last time I visited, a saw a big new house being built where a ranch house used to be. Also, a lot of trendy restaurants and stores moved into the area. I think the area is becoming a West University.

[2112]

Dallas has a big hurdle competing with its suburbs. I have said it before many times; I despise the whole idea of suburbanization when it leaves the core unchecked and ripe for decay. I know it was the trend in almost every other city, not just Dallas and Houston, but it still sucks. Dallas has the problem REAL bad, in that the

[ricco67]

Spacecity sez:

"Dallas is landlocked. It's one of the few Texas cities that doesn't have the opportunity to annex,....."

That is also a very good point. Most larger cities in the U.S. are generally near large bodies of water. This will be a major factor in their growth, I would imagine.

The only advantages of being in a Geographical location like Dallas and Kansas city is the fact that it's a Major FED/UPS hubs are located in cities like that.

Ricco

[rantanamo]

not to mention any kind of company likes the location. When companies move here they usually say so. DFW Airport has totally taken advantage of this.

As for being landlocked, I'd divide the city into two halves. North of I-30, I'd say yes, Dallas is landlocked. You're seeing major urban expansion there as well. There's a reason for it to happen, and not just because its a new trend. South of I-30, Dallas is still growing in the suburban sense. New subdivision have begun to pop-up everywhere in the underutilized south side. As middle class residents move in, it will become more and more attractive, as its simply a pretty place. Very hilly and wooded. Almost like two different cities.

[Willy1]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post on this board... I'm on the Dallas and Fort Worth boards all the time, as I'm a FW resident who spends a lot of time between both Dallas and Fort Worth...

I like your place on the web here. Great board - very informative. I thought I'd also take the opportunity to shed a little light on the DFW trends since I noticed y'all talking about the DFW thing in on the Houston Board.

Just a few of the facts about Dallas and Fort Worth...

Fort Worth - FW is now the fastest growing city in the nation with a pop over 500,000. (Even the NTCOG can't keep up with the pop growth) This trend has been quietly going on for the past couple of years. Experts are predicting that FW will eventually surpass Dallas in population, although it will take a while. In the past year, FW has passed several cities, jumping from #27 to #19 in population. Washington DC, Seattle, Denver, Charollotte, Boston, El Paso, Milwaulkee, and Denver are among the cities that FW has surpassed in the past year or so. FW now ranks just behind Baltimore, Memphis, and Austin... all of which have been experiencing population decreases. Experts are predicting FW to continue booming for years to come since the Eastern half of the DFW metroplex moves closer to becoming landlocked. FW is predicted to reclaim the spot as the state's 4th largest city (replacing Austin) within the next two years which will also make FW the nation's 16th largest city. Unlike Dallas, Fort Worth has unlimited growth potential and the city is set to double in land size through the annexation of extrajurisdictional territories within a few years. FW is determined not to become landlocked by suburbs. Meanwhile one of the nations most successful urban renewal projects continues to boom in downtown FW. With the approval of FW's Trinity River Project, FW will soon double the footprint of downtown and add city lakes and canals in the process. Add that to the fact that FW's downtown occupancy rate is holding steady at 98% and odds are that new skyscrapers will be popping up soon. The Pier One Place and Radio Shack corporate campuses are just the tip of the iceberg... much more is to come in Downtown FW. Of course, if you add all that to what Fort Worth already offers - a world class zoo, world class museums, world class performance hall... FW is poised to blow her own cover as the state's best kept secret. The masses will soon discover the great things that have been lurking in Dallas' shadows all these years.

Dallas - Nothing keeps Dallas on her toes more than the on-ward march of her little sister to the west (not to mention her recent move to #3). Dallas and FW have always had a competitive nature about them. Someone said Dallas and Fort Worth are united, but seperate. That's exactly right. They're like sibling rivals. FW has strived to become the anti-Dallas, while Dallas has strived to keep FW in the shadows. Dallas is now scrambling to follow the example in urban renewal that FW is setting. Dallas will not be #3 for long. Dallas is set to approve its own Trinity River Plan which will renew the inner city, and Dallas is busting at the seams with new urban villages sprouting up in the uptown area off McKinney Ave. The trend toward moving to the burbs is slowly revearsing itself in Dallas as more upscale "urban high rise living" is being built. Mid-rise residential skyscrapers are popping up all over the ring surrounding downtown Dallas. The newest claim to fame in Dallas is an urban view of downtown from the balcony of one's trendy "uptown" highrise penthouse. Dallas has always wanted to be the NYC of the south and due to being landlocked and the fear of slipping in the rankings... They might just actually pull it off. If you think you've seen Dallatude - just wait until they turn things around! They'll be unbearable! Of course, there's only one thing standing in the way of all the great plans in Dallas - the city's government, which is ripe with potential for a sitcom! Of course, the city government is also the reason the Dallas Cowboys are more than likey moving to Tarrant County. Dallas REALLY fumbled that one! The Cowboys back in Fair Park -- that would have been a HUGE boost for the inner city and an urban renewal dream come true. But, they let it slip and now the Super Bowl that should have been in Dallas will take place in Arlington of all places.

Oh yeah - then there's that other big city in DFW, Arlington. They should change the name to Thrill Ride City. Arlington would still be a country town if it weren't for Six Flags, Hurricane Harbor, the Texas Rangers, and coming soon The "Dallas" Cowboys? Now, the city without a skyline or mass transit is the state's 7th largest city and their biggest claim to fame is that they're the state's largest suburb.

The Metroplex - anyway you shake it, growth is the name of the game in DFW. Not only are the major cities experiencing huge growth and renewal, the DFW suburbs are some of the fastest growing in the nation as well. Furthermore, now that some of the other metro's have been re-defined by the US Census, DFW is now officially ranked the 5th largest metro area in the nation, with a population right at 6 Million, DFW is just behind Philly. Philly will defintely slip behind DFW by the end of the decade, and the DFW Metroplex population is expected to nearly double in the next couple decades. Some experts predict that DFW will eventually pass Chicago, and - guilp - even LA. by the end of the century.

Anyway, that's enough of the 411 on DFW... I hope y'all enjoy reading my own personal view of the DFW trends... I know Houstonians don't care much for Dallas (I know it's just a stereotype...). But, remember that the state's most Houston-like city also resides in the DFW area. FW is a lot like Houston in that the city has a huge appreciation for the arts and preserving historic buildings and the flavor of the city's rich Texas heritage. And, FWorthians definitely like and admire Houston. It's a great city... if only y'all could figure out a way to get rid of those hummingbird-sized mosquitos.