Will Eastwood Ever Be As Nice As Woodland Heights

[laiall]

Hi, all I am new to this forum but have been reading for a while now.

My question to everyone today is: Is Eastwood really gentrifying and will it ever be of the caliber of Woodland Heights?

From reading the threads here it seems like Eastwood's boundaries are the train tracks on Capitol St on the North, train tracks running from York St to I45 on the West, I45 on the South and I guess train tracks on the east? I have been driving around there and even took a look at a home on Clay St. There do seem to be some really nicely renovated/remodeled Craftsman Bungalows there but they are so few and far between. Clay St has a lot of apt buildings and some of the streets like Woodleigh, and east of Dumble seem to not have been touched at all. Comparing the bungalow lined streets of Woodland Heights to here, it seems that not as many of these homes have potential. Maybe it is my lack of imagination? It seems to me that while most of the homes in this area were built at the same time as Woodland Heights, most of the homes aren't your typical charming wood-sided front-porched bungalows.

I want really bad for this place to have potential as I would love to jump in early and fix one up but do you all think it will ever be a highly desirable neighborhood?

[kylejack]

Oh if only you could have seen Woodland Heights 25 years ago. Its come a long way from a much more modest past. Will Eastwood do the same? Dunno. It depends on a bunch of socioeconomic factors, public and private investment, many other quantities that are currently unknown.

[laiall]

I wish I could have seen the Heights 25 years ago, so I'd have a comparison! Is it just me or does the heights area seem to be much larger (4 to 5 times) than the Eastwood area?

[NenaE]

Ironic reading this headline, I read somewhere recently that the builder of the homes in Woodland Heights actually built even more upscale homes in Eastwood. Don't know exactly where that article was.

[laiall]

I believe the article you are referencing is the wikipedia page for Woodland Heights: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Heights,_Houston,_Texas

I would say from driving around abour 25-30% of the homes are really interesting architecturally and the remaining ones are either beyond my imagination or just seem to be run down duplexes and apt buildings.

[Dan the Man]

Woodland Heights has come a long way in the past 20 years, but it was always better off (the blight in Woodland Heights never became as widespread as it did in Eastwood). That said, Eastwood has loads of potential. Eastwood was developed as a more upscale neighborhood than Woodland Heights, so many of the houses are larger and sit on larger lots. Some of the homes are very interesting architecturally, featuring vintage built-ins and unique woodwork. The neighborhood is also super-close to Downtown, and the tree-lined streets are amazing.

I've been watching the neighborhood for the past 4 years, and there have been a lot of improvements and renovations. I'd say that gentrification is already occurring and will probably continue for the indefinite future. Woodland Heights will always be more desirable due to its location, but Eastwood will end up being a nice neighborhood too. Gentrification is always a slow process, and Eastwood has to overcome two big obstacles - lack of retail and lack of available homes.

In my opinion, the biggest negative in Eastwood is the fact that it can be difficult to find a decent house for sale. There are periods when there aren't any homes for sale and those that do come on the market tend to be one of two extremes - either totally dilapidated or completely renovated. As gentrification continues and property values increase, this will probably change as residents decide to "cash out." Retail will follow as new, and presumably more wealthy, residents move into the area.

All in all, I think Eastwood is a good investment. It's a good time to buy over there, as the economy has caused prices to drop a bit. I don't live in Eastwood, but I have family and friends who do, so I'm pretty familiar with the area. Other forum members live in Eastwood, and will probably be able to answer any specific questions you may have.

[travelguy_73]

I have lived in Eastwood for about 2 years now, thankfully in one of the more aesthetically pleasing homes . My street is a mix of single family and duplexes and LOTS of garage apartments. Our house was a mess when we bought it, not dilapidated or anything like that, just really sad. We saw that it had potential, and now it is one of the best homes on the block (from the outside, we haven't finished the interior). I have to say that we were very excited when we moved in, thinking we were going to fix our place up, and that the neighbors would be so excited that they would throw us a party and then immediately start work on their homes--errr, hasn't quite happened yet. I have helped other neighbors with their yards, but ache for them to do more. I'm not very patient, which is a bad trait in a gentrifying area!

IMO, the economy slowed things down considerably, and right now only a couple of homes on my block are undergoing any sort of work. As Dan mentioned, the housing stock for sale is VERY hit and miss. We drove around for weeks every day at lunch looking for for sale by owner signs because we had heard that there were lots of private sales (there are, and that screws up comps as well). There are currently two homes on my block for sale, one renovated, one needing TLC, but not a major reno. Neither of them have sold, , which is depressing. They could both use a price correction, and I wish the owners would just do it so we could get their Days On Market to stop adding up.

But back to your original question: I'm positive on Eastwood, but I don't think that it will see the same wholesale changes than Woodland Heights has seen, at least not for a very long time. I am, hoever, pleased to see the townhomes east of downtown continuing to be built, not because I like them, but because they attract the same type of young professional that Eastwood needs. And as the townhome buyers move east of downtown, they tell their friends, and word spreads.

[laiall]

Thanks for those great replies Dan and Travelguy.

Travelguy is the house you are referring to the one at 4406 Clay St? Out of all the homes available right now that one seems to have a ton of potential. I checked it out only to find that it is up for sale bc the husband who lived there murdered his wife and then committed suicide! House needs completely new electric service including pulling permits or something plus needs central air and the pier and beam foundation to be leveled.

I am in love with the craftsman style homes but not so fond of the $300,000+ prices for an entry level one in the Heights. Eastwood seems like the only other option for a craftsman bungalow community, no?

[TheNiche]

Hi, all I am new to this forum but have been reading for a while now.

My question to everyone today is: Is Eastwood really gentrifying and will it ever be of the caliber of Woodland Heights?

From reading the threads here it seems like Eastwood's boundaries are the train tracks on Capitol St on the North, train tracks running from York St to I45 on the West, I45 on the South and I guess train tracks on the east? I have been driving around there and even took a look at a home on Clay St. There do seem to be some really nicely renovated/remodeled Craftsman Bungalows there but they are so few and far between. Clay St has a lot of apt buildings and some of the streets like Woodleigh, and east of Dumble seem to not have been touched at all. Comparing the bungalow lined streets of Woodland Heights to here, it seems that not as many of these homes have potential. Maybe it is my lack of imagination? It seems to me that while most of the homes in this area were built at the same time as Woodland Heights, most of the homes aren't your typical charming wood-sided front-porched bungalows.

I want really bad for this place to have potential as I would love to jump in early and fix one up but do you all think it will ever be a highly desirable neighborhood?

Even though Woodland Heights and Eastwood were developed around the same time by the same folks, I see more parallels between the housing stock in Eastwood and greater Montrose than with Woodland Heights. And in no small part this has to do with the larger number of small multifamily complexes, garage apartments, duplexes (like the one I'm living in), fourplexes, etc. But the similarities are reflected in building materials, as well. For instance, as you pointed out, wood siding is more typical of Woodland Heights than Eastwood, which features more brick facades; I guess it's a matter of taste as to which is superior, but brick is traditionally seen as the preferred material.

Greater Eastwood is definitely in demographic transition, and some parts are further along than others. But within Eastwood proper, which is perhaps only one third of the area you defined, students are very common. An "indiginous population" remains, but the rents have risen in recent years and I have yet to encounter any riff raff more serious than bored teenagers from the high school.

As someone else pointed out, the only thing that really holds Eastwood back is the dearth of retail offerings. 'Battle Kroger' at least provides an option, but it is generally not a pleasant one. Bohemeo's is always nice and seems to be taking on an 'institution' status on this side of town, but the hours of Kanomawan and the East End Urban Market make them inconvenient. I'm sure that retail offerings will expand over the coming years, but it is a slow process.

One thing that Woodland Heights has had going for it is an association with the greater Heights. A rising tide lifts all boats. But with entry-level housing in the greater Heights no longer affordable to most yuppies, they are looking elsewhere. Back around 2004, when I first started scoping out the East End, my manager (in a real estate job) said I was crazy, that the East End was simply on the wrong side of I-45 or 288. As of last year, he was touring homes in Eastwood and Idylwood (for him and the Mrs.) and quizzing me on the neighborhoods. Attitudes change, and can change fast...but results on the ground are limited by the rate of occupant turnover, which in a predominantly single-family neighborhood tends to take a while.

[travelguy_73]

Thanks for those great replies Dan and Travelguy.

Travelguy is the house you are referring to the one at 4406 Clay St? Out of all the homes available right now that one seems to have a ton of potential. I checked it out only to find that it is up for sale bc the husband who lived there murdered his wife and then committed suicide! House needs completely new electric service including pulling permits or something plus needs central air and the pier and beam foundation to be leveled.

I am in love with the craftsman style homes but not so fond of the $300,000+ prices for an entry level one in the Heights. Eastwood seems like the only other option for a craftsman bungalow community, no?

I'm on Jefferson (in the forgotten side of Eastwood, LOL), but what an interesting story on the Clay house (which will now come up in search engine searches on that address, so let's hope it is true!). If you don't mind the brick 30's style of home, then that will open up options within Eastwood, Idylwood (my old neighborhood), and perhaps Lindale, though I know next to nothing about that neighborhood. I personally prefer brick for maintenance reasons, though the interiors of the 30's homes in this price range won't typically have the extensive woodwork that the 20's homes will (each decade of homes tends to lose interior style, from what I have seen). They mostly all have extensive hardwoods, though, and tons of windows (we have 29 or so in only 1600 sq ft).

As for retail, it is a problem around here. Other than Mandola's Deli, which is within walking distance, and the auto parts store on Telephone, I can't tell you the last time I shopped locally. It's a shame, really, but I have gained an inderstanding of how important demographic information is to finance retail, and so I know retail will come in time. I do love the proximity to downtown (we can leave the house and be parked at Toyota Center/Discovery Green in 10 minutes), and the Columbia Tap bike trail, which we use all the time to get to Hermann Park and to our friends in Riverside Terrace. Those are huge draws for us.

[LTAWACS]

I think only time will tell if Eastwood will ever be as nice. I do think that it is on the right track.

[arisegundo]

One factor that is changing is that the huge warehouse and industrial areas that used to hem in and isolate Eastwood are going away. Stewart and Stevenson's big blue complex on Harrisburg is becoming light-rail corridor retail (verrry slowly...). The office/warehouse blocks on Cullen are but a memory. Finger's is down to its last rug. There are rumors that Macy's will ditch the old Foley's distribution center and that UH wants to make a move on that land. The right mix of residential, commercial, and educational on these plots could serve to connect Eastwood to 45, UH, and points west, just as the "EaDo" lofts and condos creeping east are already doing.

[samagon]

as the warehouse district, sorry eado, gets more and more residents, the retail will come to that area, this should continue to move east. as others have said, only time will tell, but for me I find the area to be very convenient even with the lack of starbucks on every corner, and if you find a nice starting point of a house, you'll enjoy yourself even now, even though you may have to drive 10 minutes to go to a grocery store.

we have great accessibility to the areas around that have already been built up, or are in the process (montrose, midtown, washington) there are big box retailers over in gulfgate. the area is bicycle friendly with trails less than a mile away with access to downtown and herman park/ museums.

even in the year I've owned, I've seen progress being made, houses being updated, etc. it is slow, but it is a slow economy, and these things take time.

[TheNiche]

I'm on Jefferson

Me too.

Other than Mandola's Deli, which is within walking distance...

I forgot about Mandola's, but they aren't open except during lunch hours. The last time I went was a couple years ago, and I recall that the bug-eyed midget on staff kept kicking another staff member in the shins for unclear reasons. Similarly, I love Champ Burger. Try the double bacon cheeseburger with a side of onion rings. It's a heart-stopper. It isn't within walking distance but is plenty close enough for a burger run.

[kylejack]

as the warehouse district, sorry eado, gets more and more residents, the retail will come to that area, this should continue to move east. as others have said, only time will tell, but for me I find the area to be very convenient even with the lack of starbucks on every corner, and if you find a nice starting point of a house, you'll enjoy yourself even now, even though you may have to drive 10 minutes to go to a grocery store.

we have great accessibility to the areas around that have already been built up, or are in the process (montrose, midtown, washington) there are big box retailers over in gulfgate. the area is bicycle friendly with trails less than a mile away with access to downtown and herman park/ museums.

even in the year I've owned, I've seen progress being made, houses being updated, etc. it is slow, but it is a slow economy, and these things take time.

Yeah. I have a dream for great neighborhoods popping up around Columbia Tap and the Commerce bike trails. East End is the next cheap area close to downtown, and with empty warehouses there's not the kind of cultural barriers to development that there would be in, say, 5th Ward.

[TheNiche]

we have great accessibility to the areas around that have already been built up, or are in the process (montrose, midtown, washington) there are big box retailers over in gulfgate. the area is bicycle friendly with trails less than a mile away with access to downtown and herman park/ museums.

Eastwood also has easy access to two of the biggest parks projects currently under development in Houston. The banks of Brays Bayou are all getting torn up and landscaped with new trails, so that the linear corridor will extend from the Ship Channel to Spur 5, where it hooks into the existing trails that pass through or by UH, Riverside, Hermann Park, the TMC, and Meyerland. The sections at Mason Park are already done, and IMO, Mason Park is one of the great undiscovered inner city parks in Houston. The other big project is the east section of Buffalo Bayou; more accurately, it is a number of projects all strung together. Slowly but surely, the trail network is coming together, and will extend from downtown to Lockwood. Tony Marron Park along the east side of York was completed only a couple years ago, and preparations are being made to enlarge it to the east. A boathouse for dragon boats, rowboats, canoes, kayaks, outriggers is planned across York from Tony Marron Park. And further down the bayou, at Wayside, Buffalo Bend Nature Park is under development. There are lots more plans, some of them actionable, but most of them unrealistic visions...still, there is progress.

All this, yet Eastwood itself sits on high ground, outside of any floodplain. Come to think of it, the high-banked bayous don't flood quite as easily, either, and don't leave silt all over the trails. That's a big plus as compared to the trails from downtown towards Memorial Park.

[musicman]

unfortunately the silt can be quite thick on the portion bordering gus wortham. if wet, stay clear.

[Highway6]

Niche, I know you're one of the East side's biggest cheerleaders, and I know for better or worse depending on one's perspective, the area is changing.

For all those that live there, or plan on living in that part of town - Do you have kids? Do you plan on having kids? Austin High, while certainly not at the bottom of HISD, isn't exactly at the top of the city rankings either. It's roughly the 5th ranked HISD school, though its in the middle of the pack as far as all area districts are concerned.

Do you plan on living there long enough to have your kids attend Austin. Do you expect Austin to move up in the rankings as the area gets even more gentrified?

Do you send or plan to send your kids to a magnet or private school ? Do you intend to move to a better district in the future if you think it would better serve your kids educational interests?

How much did educational zoning, for middle and elementary schools as well, played a part in choosing to move to your current location?

[crunchtastic]

I live in Eastwood. I don't have kid and don't plan to. But I do expect that as the area gentrifies, rail is completed, retail expands, etc. , that more people with children will move in, and the current newcomers will have children and stay. In addtion to Austin, there's also Eastwood Academy (a charter high) and Kipp.

Interestingly enough, the people I bought from (among the first wave of newcomers discovering the neighborhood a number of years back) had 2 children, 1 school age, and the reason they moved was they wanted a bigger house and nothing was avaialbe in the area. (A family of 4 in a 2/1 is a bit of a squeeze, even for the most committed bungalow owner). As Dan mentioned earlier, what seems to be slowing gentrification in Eastwood is that so little is for sale at any given time.

Just an observation, but I think the new generation of inner loop homebuyers in their 20s and early 30s are not going to be scared off so fast by the schools the minute they have kids. A handful of young couples I've met in my neighborhood that haven't started families yet talk about how they chose to live here because they (among other things) consider the ex-urban lifestyle unappealing and unsustainable. They seem to have a much different mindset about community and urban living than, for example, the people my age (mid 40s) who wanted the boho urban lifestyle 15-20 years ago, with the expectation they would leave once they had children.

[TheNiche]

Niche, I know you're one of the East side's biggest cheerleaders, and I know for better or worse depending on one's perspective, the area is changing.

For all those that live there, or plan on living in that part of town - Do you have kids? Do you plan on having kids? Austin High, while certainly not at the bottom of HISD, isn't exactly at the top of the city rankings either. It's roughly the 5th ranked HISD school, though its in the middle of the pack as far as all area districts are concerned.

Do you plan on living there long enough to have your kids attend Austin. Do you expect Austin to move up in the rankings as the area gets even more gentrified?

Do you send or plan to send your kids to a magnet or private school ? Do you intend to move to a better district in the future if you think it would better serve your kids educational interests?

How much did educational zoning, for middle and elementary schools as well, played a part in choosing to move to your current location?

I was raised through most of my childhood in the poorest county in the United States and graduated from a high school of about the same size and socioeconomic composition as Austin HS. I even attended an elementary school where I was the only kid from a white family; there was one other white kid, but he was adopted by Mexicans. So to be clear, I do understand what you're getting at. What I got was a crappy education and the experience of feeling like a poorly-socialized misfit, no matter what I do in life.

Kids are not in my plans, but neither is winning the lottery, having a car accident, or even something as mundane as what what's for dinner. Life happens as it will. At such time as the education of children becomes a concern, I will assess the situation and make an appropriate decision. It could be many years and I may not end up living in Houston, much less the East End.

For the sake of argument, I'd probably try to get them into a decent elementary and middle school somehow, in order for them to be socialized within a socioeconomic peer group that matches their own, and then transition them into a high school similar to Austin HS so that they stand a better chance at ranking well. HISD is pretty easy to work with as far as out-of-district transfers are concerned, so long as the parent can provide transportation, so I could probably find a workable solution.

Crappy schools do hold Eastwood back, but that's true of other transitioning places as well. I'd expect that Lantrip and Cage will in time transition to the point that they're acceptable for white yuppies, but the high school is going to be problematic for decades to come.

[AtticaFlinch]

Just an observation, but I think the new generation of inner loop homebuyers in their 20s and early 30s are not going to be scared off so fast by the schools the minute they have kids. A handful of young couples I've met in my neighborhood that haven't started families yet talk about how they chose to live here because they (among other things) consider the ex-urban lifestyle unappealing and unsustainable. They seem to have a much different mindset about community and urban living than, for example, the people my age (mid 40s) who wanted the boho urban lifestyle 15-20 years ago, with the expectation they would leave once they had children.

Spot on observation. I'm 31, married and my wife gave birth to my first child a month and a half ago. I live in the loop, and wouldn't consider moving out to some place like Cinco Ranch, Sugarland or the Woodlands. Not ever. I would consider moving outside the loop, but not far. The East End is great right now and is seriously high on my list of potential places to move when my lease is up. I look at it as a neighborhood with a ton of potential, and I figure by the time my child's in high school, the demographic of the neighborhood won't be anything like it currently is. I reflect back on my childhood, wrought with suburban blandness and uniformity, and I've realized I don't want my own child to be raised that way. It wasn't a bad upbringing, but it wasn't particularly notable either. I don't want to raise my child in a counterfeit bubble.

But, for clarification's sake (and so I don't get attacked by the 'burb acolytes), I don't find it odd to want the bubble either. To each their own.

[travelguy_73]

For all those that live there, or plan on living in that part of town - Do you have kids? Do you plan on having kids? Austin High, while certainly not at the bottom of HISD, isn't exactly at the top of the city rankings either. It's roughly the 5th ranked HISD school, though its in the middle of the pack as far as all area districts are concerned.

We don't have kids now, but are starting the adoption process in the next two years, so schools are a big sticking point for us, and we will likely determine whether we stay or go based upon how we decide to handle their education (public or private). A good friend of mine taught at Lantrip last year, and now teaches at one in the Heights (the name escapes me), and says it is night and day, especially with regards to parent participation. He said Lantrip is actually a good elementary school, but that the parents aren't nearly as involved as those at the Heights school. He also echoes that the middle- and high schools in our area are terrible. Then again, he says the same about the zoned middle- and high schools for the Heights, so I guess that tells us that change in the school system is slow, starts at the ground (K-5), and moves up.

That makes sense given that it is typically the younger people in the gentrifying areas that are most motivated to improve the area, and want the schools their children are in to reflect that.

My neighbors with kids (there aren't many!) send them to private school. They are quite pleased to have a nice low mortgage that affords them that luxury. Me, I would rather get more out of my property taxes and use the area schools.

[silverartfox]

For 4 years I've lived in Broadmoor, a little piece of Eastwood that's between Telephone and I-45 South. The houses are mostly 2/1 or 3/1 cottages and bungalows built in the 1920's-'30's. As a visual artist, I find the neighborhood suits my current needs for home/studio space on a small lot.

In another life, I taught in HISD schools serving every imaginable socioeconomic level. If I had kids, Eastwood area schools wouldn't be my first choice for their education. What many people don't realize is the role active parent involvement plays in determining the quality of HISD neighborhood schools. I have seen parents exert pressure to the extent that lousy principals were removed, course offerings were enhanced and substandard facilities received attention. Around here, there are too many parents who say they want their kids to do well but it's all lip service. They don't get to know their kids' teachers, don't attend parent-teacher organization meetings and certainly don't volunteer to help with school-related activities.

While I'm on my soapbox, I'm wondering if anyone has seen the size of Austin High School's marching band? For a school that big, it's pathetic!

[plumber2]

Champ Burger............uhmmmmm. Their BLT's are delicious. We used to send one of the receptionists there on a breakfast run quite regularly. I'm hungry right now just thinking about it.

[TheNiche]

Then again, he says the same about the zoned middle- and high schools for the Heights, so I guess that tells us that change in the school system is slow, starts at the ground (K-5), and moves up.

That makes sense given that it is typically the younger people in the gentrifying areas that are most motivated to improve the area, and want the schools their children are in to reflect that.

It has to do with that elementary schools serve neighborhoods, whereas high schools serve communities. The whole of the area zoned to Lantrip could have the demographics of Bellaire and it wouldn't make much of a dent on Austin HS because Austin HS serves such a large area, including large slummy apartment complexes and many neighborhoods where large households are the norm.

[Highway6]

A good friend of mine taught at Lantrip last year, and now teaches at one in the Heights (the name escapes me), and says it is night and day, especially with regards to parent participation. He said Lantrip is actually a good elementary school, but that the parents aren't nearly as involved as those at the Heights school. He also echoes that the middle- and high schools in our area are terrible. Then again, he says the same about the zoned middle- and high schools for the Heights, so I guess that tells us that change in the school system is slow, starts at the ground (K-5), and moves up.

IS Lantrip East end or Heights ?

I don't know if that is telling or not of the direction the East End's Austin High is headed.

Reagan High is terrible.. I had no idea. They are several spots below even Austin in the HISD rankings. Why?

You say parent participation is better in the Heights... do we chalk that up to 10-15 year head start the Heights has had in gentrifying? IF so.. Why is Reagan still so bad? I expected it to be on par with at least Lamar, but its nowhere close.

Despite parent participation, which i of course understand is a huge aspect to a kids success, why is Regan still so lacking in its quality of education? And Niche.. maybe you're right.. perhaps it takes several generations for a schools academic performance to catch up.

[laiall]

Does gentrification in the loop really get started by young professionals? I currently am renting in the heights and from my daily walks it looks more to me that the demographics of Heights are mid 30's to mid 40's with the younger crowd being more of the vein of the Montrose artist archetype. I see more yuppies in the Rice Military and Midtown area where they have the 3-story townhomes and high rise living. Developing a taste for classic architecture like queen annes and craftsman bungalows seems akin to developing a pallette for fine wine which I find seems at odds with young professional types who tend to be more pretentious on average (just my personal observation, I'm sure there are some yuppies out there that don't fit that mold). All the townhomes being constructed between downtown and Eastwood bring yuppies down that way but unless that move draws the demographics of the likes of the Heights population then could it put Eastwood in danger of being demolished to make way for more of those poorly built (but with a nice facade) townhomes?

[kylejack]

Does gentrification in the loop really get started by young professionals? I currently am renting in the heights and from my daily walks it looks more to me that the demographics of Heights are mid 30's to mid 40's with the younger crowd being more of the vein of the Montrose artist archetype. I see more yuppies in the Rice Military and Midtown area where they have the 3-story townhomes and high rise living. Developing a taste for classic architecture like queen annes and craftsman bungalows seems akin to developing a pallette for fine wine which I find seems at odds with young professional types who tend to be more pretentious on average (just my personal observation, I'm sure there are some yuppies out there that don't fit that mold). All the townhomes being constructed between downtown and Eastwood bring yuppies down that way but unless that move draws the demographics of the likes of the Heights population then could it put Eastwood in danger of being demolished to make way for more of those poorly built (but with a nice facade) townhomes?

White Linen Night: Yuppie heaven

[kylejack]

Also, nobody in the history of the world has ever been too pretentious to develop a palette for fine wine. Wine snobbery is a prerequisite for being pretentious, I'm quite sure.

[laiall]

True, but doesn't white linen night draw in the yuppie crowd from outside the Heights for the most part?