McMansions in the suburbs make less sense with high energy prices

[Pumapayam]

And I think Katy has built a Town Center type thing recently. La Centerra or something.

Sorry, their Town Center is just a glorified shopping mall of stores that was stratigically placed to look less like a strip mall.

Residential, or an attempt at it, is still a year away and is really not much brag about.

Town and County City Centre did a better job, but I still don't consider that anywhere near what a sustainable community could be. When a city/community can develope taller building, parks, government buildings, a variety of house, and be smart and actually have a grocery store in them (why do they always leave them out!) Then it can be useable.

Sugarland has the combination of the Town Square and to a lesser degree Lake Pointe across the street. The Woodlands does not need an explaination.

Something bad happened to Puma at a strip mall.

Ha , no I just think they are useless for the direction that Houston needs to go in. I don't know why they even build sidewalks along the front of them. Most people just go from their car in the parking lot to the door, rarely does anyone actually take a stroll down a strip center.

If it was not for Starbucks, most of those strip centers would not even have activity on their sidewalks.

[KatieDidIt]

Sorry, their Town Center is just a glorified shopping mall of stores that was stratigically placed to look less like a strip mall.

Residential, or an attempt at it, is still a year away and is really not much brag about.

Town and County City Centre did a better job, but I still don't consider that anywhere near what a sustainable community could be. When a city/community can develope taller building, parks, government buildings, a variety of house, and be smart and actually have a grocery store in them (why do they always leave them out!) Then it can be useable.

Sugarland has the combination of the Town Square and to a lesser degree Lake Pointe across the street. The Woodlands does not need an explaination.

City Centre and TCV doesn't NEED to be a sustainable community. It's already within it.

[Pumapayam]

They may be! He didn't define what radius a 1/2 is???

1/2 mile. . sheesh! I will fix that.

[Pumapayam]

Cue the Inner Loopers turning up their noses at the suburbanites....

I am a "Just outside the Inner Loopers" and I just feel aweful for people who invested in these homes out in BFE and drive in town each day!

[CDeb]

I am a "Just outside the Inner Loopers" and I just feel aweful for people who invested in these homes out in BFE and drive in town each day!

I don't need your pity. I enjoy my lifestyle very much, thank you.

[sevfiv]

Oh lordy! Inner vs. outer strikes again!

I agree with Puma for the most part and really enjoy living near work and places outside of work I frequent, but I chose that with or without gas prices.

I don't have much tolerance for sitting in my car between home/work regardless.

And I like the variety of (non-chain) places I have easy access to from my neighborhood.

But I also realize that I don't like what most people seem to - which is why I live where I do, and lots of others choose the exurbs.

[sarahiki]

For instance, alot of once affluent, "nice" areas in West Pearland are slummy or becoming that way and the people moving there are ignoring the signs in front of them.

Huh?!?

I've spent a good bit of time exploring the west side of Pearland and I have yet to see any indication of slumminess. I must be among the blind you cite. Can you back that up with a "for example"?

[BryanS]

You don't have to be an inner looper to understand that these days it makes more sense to live close to work.

I just love comments like this. The underlying assumption is that all suburbs are bedroom communities - and that's it. In Clear Lake... you can live and work down here, if you chose. You want Midtown? OK... Look at the intersection of Bay Area and 45... Berryhill, Cafe Express, Taco Milagro, Starbucks, Borders, Barnes & Nobles... Clear Lake has all the same favorite chain establishments as can be found in the finest parts of the inner loop. Plus Lowes and Home Depot are actually close by. Not to mention, the Gulf of Mexico is only 30 minutes away. Great swimming opportunity, for those that like brown water.

There are some older neighborhoods that are actually pretty nice, too. In fact, that's why Glenbrook, an "edge of loop" neighborhood, is in the sad state it is in today - because all those residents fled to Clear Lake City, decades ago... and by the looks of it... I don't see them going back.

There are other factors too. Want to send your kids to a good school? Good luck with HISD. Why pay all that money to live in the inner loop - and pay to send your kids to private school - when you have good school districts like CCISD. You pay the school tax. Why not get your money out of that expense? Calculate the cost of sending your kids to private school, in addition to the money you must pour down the drain to HISD, and then see if inner loop living (with children at least) is such a good bargain.

[Pumapayam]

I don't need your pity. I enjoy my lifestyle very much, thank you.

Yeah, I get an average of 90 minutes more freetime a day since I am not stuck in traffic. Enjoy your life stuck in traffic (Generalization of most people stuck on 290, I-10, and 59).

And I like the variety of (non-chain) places I have easy access to from my neighborhood.

Great point, how many Gamestop and Mattress Firms anchored with Best Buys and Walmart do we really need.

All these strip centers start looking alike as far as what they contain. It is like the same pool of 30 chain stores mixed and matched a dozen at a time placed in strip malls 5 or 6 exits apart from each other.

[MidtownCoog]

Can't we just cut-and-paste this debate from last year and save everyone time?

The anti-chain rants and the inner loop DINKS on their high-horse... Oy Vey.

I don't think anyone in this city is being forced to live ANYWHERE. Nobody cares where you live and what you enjoy no matter where you live.

And just in case nobody has noticed, there are some NASTY places inside the loop.

[Pumapayam]

Huh?!?

I've spent a good bit of time exploring the west side of Pearland and I have yet to see any indication of slumminess. I must be among the blind you cite. Can you back that up with a "for example"?

Once the first owner of the house leaves, or decides to rent it out, then you will notice. These new homes look ugly really fast.

Any why do people built and buy the same damn cookie cutter homes, 2 story brick first floor, hardi second floor and rear, and that silly arch stone in the top middle of each window, and roof top profiles with so many peaks they rival mini mountain ranges.

[MidtownCoog]

There are other factors too. Want to send your kids to a good school? Good luck with HISD.

Over the years on this board I have found the most vocal inner-loopers don't even have children...

[crunchtastic]

That's probably the number one thing I hate about living in the 'burbs. There's less than a handful of major roads to get around on and there's hardly any useful retail in between them.

And it's the single biggest suburban development mistake and one of the main drivers of "new urbanism". Only a handful of arterial roads, where all the commerical is located, and residential neighborhoods with long, winding or circular roads instead of a grid pattern. It promotes isolated residential areas and terrible congestion on the arteries. Hence, the 'town square' model that tries to better integrate residential and commerical.

[Pumapayam]

I don't think anyone in this city is being forced to live ANYWHERE. Nobody cares where you live and what you enjoy no matter where you live.

People are being shamed into buying cheap homes in the middle of nowhere. I don't blame them for buying it initially, because it SEEMS like a good deal with the promise of a great investment.

To get back on topic, it's the aftermath, especially now with energy costs on the up and up that really makes it a terrible investment.

And with so many cheap looking neighborhoods being built outside of the BW 8, do you really see any improvement in property values. This more so applies for the west, northwest, south Houston. Those areas are being saturated.

I think the coastal markets are exempted from this becuase of the appeal to be near water (not a silly retention pond), a real lake or bay, like the Clear Lake area.

[sarahiki]

Once the first owner of the house leaves, or decides to rent it out, then you will notice. These new homes look ugly really fast.

Any why do people built and buy the same damn cookie cutter homes, 2 story brick first floor, hardi second floor and rear, and that silly arch stone in the top middle of each window, and roof top profiles with so many peaks they rival mini mountain ranges.

Sorry Puma, I'm still looking for a better answer than that. Many of those neighborhoods are already 10 years old, so surely into second owners. Things still look pretty good.

I'm not invested in this in any sense of the word, I just think these opinions are being flung around pretty wildly, and I'll like to hear some evidence.

I agree about cookie cutter homes. One reason people may buy them is that they cost 1/2 to 1/3 what a more interesting house in the loop might cost. That's a fairly compelling reason. Personally, I wish the builders would build things that varied in style more, in particular more modern homes. But I guess the rest of the buying public disagrees, or they probably would.

[Pumapayam]

Over the years on this board I have found the most vocal inner-loopers don't even have children...

I think that people with kids have to resort to buying these cheaply built bigger homes in the middle of nowhere to give each kid their own bedroom, a game room, and back yard to play in(which actually, I think is getting tinier compared to the 1970's surburban home).

Reality check, most kids never play in their tiny treeless fenced in backyard, unless you have a pool in it. It's becomes a poop garden for the family dog.

[sarahiki]

People are being shamed into buying cheap homes in the middle of nowhere. I don't blame them for buying it initially, because it SEEMS like a good deal with the promise of a great investment.

I'm kind of laughing now. But seriously, what are you talking about? Who is shaming whom? And anyone who thinks a suburban house in Houston is a good investment is worse than a sucker.

I really think most people are buying these houses to live in, and to raise their families in. Not because they've been "shamed" or think they're going to get rich buying in a suburban subdivision.

Of course, I can't pretend to know the minds of the masses....

[CDeb]

People are being shamed into buying cheap homes in the middle of nowhere.

This is the most outrageous statement in this thread, considering everything else you've said.

[Pumapayam]

I agree about cookie cutter homes. One reason people may buy them is that they cost 1/2 to 1/3 what a more interesting house in the loop might cost. That's a fairly compelling reason. Personally, I wish the builders would build things that varied in style more, in particular more modern homes. But I guess the rest of the buying public disagrees, or they probably would.

I know, we need more bungalows, cottages, victorians, colonials, farmhouse, ranch style, and less McMansions.

No personality.

[Gary]

Puma, while I would rather live closer to town I think some of your comments are unfounded. I live in Governors Place which is in South Katy, and I have very easy access to I-10, 99, and the Westpark tollroad. I also live within two miles of a Kroger Signature, Fiesta, HEB and a Specks. I also have easy access to some great Mexican food (my favorite), A YMCA, a Lifetime Fitness, any fast food I want, Parks, lakes, malls, etc, etc.

I will also mention that La Centerra is not that bad at all. It's a fun place to people watch, eat a nice meal, and have a drink (there is a Bakers street pub, and a wine bar). All in all it gives those of us living in the burbs a nice alternative to Houston. T

I still like coming into town, but I certainly wouldn't paint such a broad brush sterotype of the area.

[MidtownCoog]

People are being shamed into buying cheap homes in the middle of nowhere. I don't blame them for buying it initially, because it SEEMS like a good deal with the promise of a great investment.

To get back on topic, it's the aftermath, especially now with energy costs on the up and up that really makes it a terrible investment.

And with so many cheap looking neighborhoods being built outside of the BW 8, do you really see any improvement in property values. This more so applies for the west, northwest, south Houston. Those areas are being saturated.

I think the coastal markets are exempted from this becuase of the appeal to be near water (not a silly retention pond), a real lake or bay, like the Clear Lake area.

It's common knowledge the burbs don't appreciate that much. I pity the fool who see it as a great investment no matter where you live. My Midtown neighbor thought he was going to retire with his future profits.

But Shame? I'll give you shame...

Cramming a family of five into an innerloop townhome, and subjecting your children to HISD, all becuase you are too poor to afford $5.00 gas.

Now THAT, my friend, is SHAME!

But at least we can still walk to Niko Nikos and Soudwaves!

[CDeb]

Reality check, most kids never play in their tiny treeless fenced in backyard, unless you have a pool in it. It's becomes a poop garden for the family dog.

Reality check: become a parent before lecturing those of us that are about what kids do and don't do.

[Gary]

And anyone who thinks a suburban house in Houston is a good investment is worse than a sucker.

Really? My house has appreciated almost $45,000 in five measly years. I for one am ecstatic about my investment.

[Gary]

Reality check, most kids never play in their tiny treeless fenced in backyard, unless you have a pool in it. It's becomes a poop garden for the family dog.

What are you talking about, and how can you make such baseless statements as a matter of fact?

My kids are in our stupid, cheap, oversized backyard everyday.

[sarahiki]

Really? My house has appreciated almost $45,000 in five measly years. I for one am ecstatic about my investment.

That's great. I'm sorry, my tone probably came across differently than I meant it. I guess what I meant is that I, personally, wouldn't go into a home purchase in the Houston suburbs expecting appreciation. I think people who bank on appreciating in that market are making a mistake. But if the home does appreciate in value, that's great, and it's a bonus. I say this (and my above comments) as an inner-looper with a mind towards moving to the suburbs, with my two children, who will most certainly play in their yard, whatever size it is.

[Pumapayam]

This is the most outrageous statement in this thread, considering everything else you've said.

Maybe you like it, and I think everyone is convince they like it, but really living in the far out suburbs can be depressing (see suburban blues and teens), financially expensive in the long term (do I need to explain this), and kinda boring (yes exceptions exist, spare me the details of fun you have at the local Big Lots).

It is current trend that people are starting to avoid (or regret) buying these homes and would rather be closer into the urban center.

[sevfiv]

Let's try to steer this thread away from the city v. exurb debates - I'm sure there's plenty of that going on in some other thread.

[Pumapayam]

Reality check: become a parent before lecturing those of us that are about what kids do and don't do.

Don't take it as a personal attack, I am sure your kids love their home in the middle of nowhere, but I am generalizing something that is covered in the news and on the internet, heck that is why this thread topic exists. There will always be two side to every debate. But I do think you are on the losing end of it.

People are finally learning their lessons about buying these homes, a bit late, but they now know.

Maybe your family is content with that lifestyle, but there are a handful of others that wished they made a smarter choice.

[musicman]

I know, we need more bungalows, cottages, victorians, colonials, farmhouse, ranch style, and less McMansions.

No personality.

don't you live in a cookie cutter townhome by the galleria?

[longcat]

I think it's more likely we will see families switching out their Yukons and Suburbans for Ford Fiestas and the like to address the higher transportation costs at the current levels. If oil goes way higher, then all bets are off, as an economic depression from $8 gas would affect the loop pretty darn hard as well.