Four Toll Lanes on I-10?

[musicman]

Ok, can somebody help me out here? I have heard 10 different things about the new interstate. I've heard it to be as much as 24 lanes across. I've heard 10 lanes, I've heard 16 lanes. Which is it? The way I understood it was it will be 10 mainlanes on each side with 4 HOV lanes in the center. Is this correct?

each way there are 2 toll, 4 regular, 3 feeder...i should end this with i think.

EDIT: confirmed here i'm talking from highway 6 to 610.

[N Judah]

I think conjestion pricing will ultimately mean that fares could decrease during non-peak times (probably never free). I also think rebates for trips that end up being conjested even though the driver paid the increased fare will occur. But these are enhancements that will take time and technology to incoporate.

Well, if it's ever decreed to be *never* free, then it's not congestion pricing.

And any technology that can be used to increase fares can be used to decrease fares too. The floor needs to be zero, not $2.00 or whatever they want the baseline to be now. Otherwise, it is not truly "congestion pricing."

[jfre81]

Soon there will be a toll booth at everyone's driveway. Back out, pay a buck.

[N Judah]

each way there are 2 toll, 4 regular, 3 feeder...i should end this with i think.

EDIT: confirmed here i'm talking from highway 6 to 610.

Yes. As I-10 was 3 lanes in each direction prior to the expansion, we paid a few billion for a few toll lanes in the middle. So any person who uses the toll lane is double-paying, and any person who uses the regular lanes may experience a slight decrease in congestion for a few years or so before it becomes as crowded as before.

[Mr. Chenevert]

I know the "managed lanes" concept has been part of the reconstruction since the beginning, well before construction started. It was in the news articles 5 years ago (or whenever I-10 reconstruction was initially discussed prior to construction).

Here's the question I've been asking ever since I first heard about the idea: HOW DO THEY DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN AN "HOV" CAR AND A SINGLE-RIDER CAR? How does the system know who to toll and who rides for free? Is this done by a person watching a screen, or the honor system or what?

The HOV system today is an honor system with selective enforcement. I do not see that as changing.

It's entirely possible that HOV cars will enter at different points than toll paying cars.

In any case, I am sure they have thought of this issue and have worked out a solution.

[TheNiche]

How many people don't even need to commute?

I've seen a couple of internal studies at past employers (which were quickly quashed) . I can only speak for my industry, but roughly 70% of the people in my office don't need to be here on-site to do their job. I'm not sure what it is--companies afraid they'l lose productivity? There are some legitimate fears about intellectual property and working remotely, but mainly, no executive wants to spend money on any IT infrastructure improvements that don't positively impact his bottom line that quarter, or that year, or for that 5 year strategic plan.

It is patently ridiculous that I need to be here, in my overly lit office that hasn't been vaccumed since 1984, to make my daily contribution to shareholder value.

We have the technology. All I need is mid-level remote database clearance, and some upgraded software.

It was apparently tried and then abandoned by the Greater Houston Partnership at one point. They required certain things of people that wanted to telecommute, including that they have their own dedicated room as an office at home, that they didn't have any kids at home during the day, and that their roles were compatible (i.e. receptionists don't qualify). Some people lacked discipline, but the really big problem, from what I've heard, was jealousy among non-qualifiers.

Also, some corporate executives (typically older folks) aren't comfortable with new technology. They like face-to-face conversation, and even video conferencing doesn't cut it. I'm thinking that Gen X will solve a lot of that.

[musicman]

Yes. As I-10 was 3 lanes in each direction prior to the expansion, we paid a few billion for a few toll lanes in the middle. So any person who uses the toll lane is double-paying, and any person who uses the regular lanes may experience a slight decrease in congestion for a few years or so before it becomes as crowded as before.

we didn't pay a few billion for tolls lanes in the middle. HCTRA did, just like the other toll roads around houston. If you want to use it, then you will be charged like the other toll roads.

[Standeck]

My understanding of the toll scheme is that there will be three lanes at each toll station:

- One for vehicles with 3+ passengers, no toll

- One for vehicles with 2+ passengers, depending on time of day either no toll or nominal toll

- One for single passenger vehicles, tolled with congestion pricing (i.e., pay more during rush hour)

Drivers will self select and (hopefully) be in the correct lane when reaching the toll station. Their EZ Tags will get charged according to which sensor they pass under. Enforcement will be via Metro officer on a bike as it is now. Bottom line, you can probably sneak through, but if you get caught it's going to cost you big time.

[Trae]

The Katy Corridor Coalition had it right first, with putting in rail in the middle, and still having a lane each way for HOV. They just asked too much with wanted the freeway depressed. Without that, they had the better plan, but it probably wouldn't have happened with the politicians we have in Houston.

[Mr. Chenevert]

My understanding of the toll scheme is that there will be three lanes at each toll station:

- One for vehicles with 3+ passengers, no toll

- One for vehicles with 2+ passengers, depending on time of day either no toll or nominal toll

- One for single passenger vehicles, tolled with congestion pricing (i.e., pay more during rush hour)

Drivers will self select and (hopefully) be in the correct lane when reaching the toll station. Their EZ Tags will get charged according to which sensor they pass under. Enforcement will be via Metro officer on a bike as it is now. Bottom line, you can probably sneak through, but if you get caught it's going to cost you big time.

That makes sense. And it would be very easy to put easy tag readers near other enforement area's to see if single passenger cars indeed paid the appropriate toll.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

My understanding of the toll scheme is that there will be three lanes at each toll station:

- One for vehicles with 3+ passengers, no toll

- One for vehicles with 2+ passengers, depending on time of day either no toll or nominal toll

- One for single passenger vehicles, tolled with congestion pricing (i.e., pay more during rush hour)

Drivers will self select and (hopefully) be in the correct lane when reaching the toll station. Their EZ Tags will get charged according to which sensor they pass under. Enforcement will be via Metro officer on a bike as it is now. Bottom line, you can probably sneak through, but if you get caught it's going to cost you big time.

Thank you for the reply! This is the first time I've heard any detail about how the managed lanes would work.

However, I'm afraid that forcing drivers to pick the correct lane will be as successful as asking only EZ Tag drivers to drive in an EZ Tag lane. How many times a day will you have someone STOPPING on the HOV lane to change lanes at the last minute, just like they do at Sam Houston Tollway Toll Plazas?

[wakester]

The HOV system today is an honor system with selective enforcement. I do not see that as changing.

It's entirely possible that HOV cars will enter at different points than toll paying cars.

In any case, I am sure they have thought of this issue and have worked out a solution.

A picture is worth a 1000 words

[jfre81]

How many times a day will you have someone STOPPING on the HOV lane to change lanes at the last minute, just like they do at Sam Houston Tollway Toll Plazas?

This is exactly the scenario that has me thinking I'll be avoiding this new I-10 like gonorrhea. I despise driving the Sam for this particular reason.

[N Judah]

we didn't pay a few billion for tolls lanes in the middle. HCTRA did, just like the other toll roads around houston. If you want to use it, then you will be charged like the other toll roads.

So you're saying gas taxes are not being used to finance the I-10 expansion? We had 3 lanes before and we have 3 lanes now.

[CDeb]

I'd only live in those places if I worked there. Otherwise, forget it. Those people are pretty much paying a second mortgage at the pump. Now they'll be paying a third one taking I-10 it sounds like.

I live in Cypress, work in Uptown (48 miles round trip), drive on the shoulders of the peak period and generally get about 26 mpg in my 2003 Camry. So at $3.35 a gallon and 22 work days a month, my commuting basically costs me $136 a month. Hardly a second mortgate. The rest of what we spend on gasoline (shopping, out of town trips, etc) would be the same no matter where we live. Gasoline prices are going to have to get a LOT higher in order to justify the huge jump in housing cost.

[cgallagher]

So.... there's three toll booths between 610 and Hwy 6 and if they decide to go ahead with the elevated pricing, it will be $7.50 one way from Katy. That's $75 both ways in a 5 day work week. I remember when there were no toll roads in Houston. Now it seems like it's never going to end.

I like the idea of a Houston bypass lane for 18 wheelers and passing traffic. A lane that you could get on in Baytown and not get off until Katy with no other exits in between. This would divert all passing traffic off the main lanes and get most of the 18 wheelers out of the way. Imagine how nice that could be.

Why are all new roads being built toll roads? Fort Bend, West park, I10, some bridge on the east side. I feel like at some point we have to say enough is enough. We pay enough in taxes to drive our on our roads, and we have the right to get from A to B quickly without having to pay extra tolls.

[Trae]

I-10 is still a freeway.

[memebag]

Also, some corporate executives (typically older folks) aren't comfortable with new technology. They like face-to-face conversation, and even video conferencing doesn't cut it. I'm thinking that Gen X will solve a lot of that.

I've been a telecommuter and I've managed telecommuters. It sounds like a great idea (going back to when I first read Clifford Simak's 1952 novel "City"), but I've never seen it work well. It's very hard not to become suspicious of workers you can't see, no matter how productive they really are.

[musicman]

So you're saying gas taxes are not being used to finance the I-10 expansion? We had 3 lanes before and we have 3 lanes now.

no your comment was that we paid a few billion for tolls lanes in the middle. we didnt. gas taxes are being used to finance some of the expansion (the free lanes /feeder) but hctra is funding the toll portion. this is a special venture where entities are working together which allowed them to finish the project earlier. we have 3 lanes now because it isn't finished. we're gaining a regular lane and a feeder lane on the free portion when it is completed.

We pay enough in taxes to drive our on our roads, and we have the right to get from A to B quickly without having to pay extra tolls.

wow a right? remember it's a privilege to drive not a right.

the funding source for toll roads is not like a regular road. users pay for it.

[jfre81]

Why are all new roads being built toll roads? Fort Bend, West park, I10, some bridge on the east side. I feel like at some point we have to say enough is enough. We pay enough in taxes to drive our on our roads, and we have the right to get from A to B quickly without having to pay extra tolls.

I've long considered toll roads to be the best advertisement for public mass/rapid transit known to man. Americans feel entitled to drive their own cars, but to do so free of tolls. Once the tolls shatter their little aura of entitlement, alternatives start being considered more. This will only stoke the clamoring for commuter rail in Katy and parts west. Maybe this is actually the aim of all this? Who knows.

To be certain, there was no demand for mass transit here beyond the HouTran/Metro bus system before there were toll roads.

[crunchtastic]

I've been a telecommuter and I've managed telecommuters. It sounds like a great idea (going back to when I first read Clifford Simak's 1952 novel "City"), but I've never seen it work well. It's very hard not to become suspicious of workers you can't see, no matter how productive they really are.

I guess it really does boil down to human nature. Vanity and jealousy. The one dude who is most concerned that my butt is in a company-owned chair at 8 am is the same guy who shows up about 4 hours a week, to harass his admin for not booking the best flight to Sea Island for the golf/'meeting' he just went to.

I can't really complain; my commute is 10-15 minutes. But how many people on the 1-10 could fire up the laptop at home, instead? If the spreadsheets are on time and correct, who cares if they're watching porn at the same time? This is America! It's all about the market! Profits! We shouldn't care about Joe Analyst II working from home in his robe, in his creepy house, as long as the trains run on time. (OK, maybe not the best metaphor......)

[BrickStamp]

I guess it really does boil down to human nature. Vanity and jealousy. The one dude who is most concerned that my butt is in a company-owned chair at 8 am is the same guy who shows up about 4 hours a week, to harass his admin for not booking the best flight to Sea Island for the golf/'meeting' he just went to.

I can't really complain; my commute is 10-15 minutes. But how many people on the 1-10 could fire up the laptop at home, instead? If the spreadsheets are on time and correct, who cares if they're watching porn at the same time? This is America! It's all about the market! Profits! We shouldn't care about Joe Analyst II working from home in his robe, in his creepy house, as long as the trains run on time. (OK, maybe not the best metaphor......)

Several years ago I worked for the GHCVB, so was not officially a city employee, but pretty close to it. The city was trying to encourage companies downtown to offer flextime to reduce traffic congestion. But not at City Hall, and not at the GHCVB. No, it was 8-5, no exceptions. It seemed to me that if City Hall was going to ask other companies to do this, they would have some of their own people doing it too. It's always a good idea for someone else to telecommute or work from home to reduce traffic, but nobody seems to want their own employees to do so.

[ricco67]

Several years ago I worked for the GHCVB, so was not officially a city employee, but pretty close to it. The city was trying to encourage companies downtown to offer flextime to reduce traffic congestion. But not at City Hall, and not at the GHCVB. No, it was 8-5, no exceptions. It seemed to me that if City Hall was going to ask other companies to do this, they would have some of their own people doing it too. It's always a good idea for someone else to telecommute or work from home to reduce traffic, but nobody seems to want their own employees to do so.

There are certain businesses and government functions that HAVE to be done with all hands being available during the day. Honestly, few people CAN telecommute, and flex scheduling is possible, as long as the people they NEED to communicate with are on roughly the same schedule.

[wxman]

each way there are 2 toll, 4 regular, 3 feeder...i should end this with i think.

EDIT: confirmed here i'm talking from highway 6 to 610.

Why do they build for the present????? I-10 Will have to be expanded again before long. Don't they look at future census data??? I think HOV lanes are a waste, but that's just me. I know you all disagree with that.

I'm really on the verge of outraged. I just can't believe they did all that for one lane! Unbelieveable. I understand it's a money issue, but come on. What are we accomplishing with ONE LANE??? Somebody needs to update wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katy_Freeway

Somebody has listed down 26 lanes across.

[CDeb]

Ignorance is a mutha.

[jfre81]

Actually, I think the HOV lanes would make a great commuter rail/el-train corridor. Now that's a high-occupancy lane.

[wxman]

Actually, I think the HOV lanes would make a great commuter rail/el-train corridor. Now that's a high-occupancy lane.

I agree...100%.

[Gary]

Thanks for summing up my feelings. Personally I'm apalled that we're gainng one lane after all the crap we've had to go through. I might feel a little better if TXDOT/METRO had a high capacity rail line with two tollways (East/West), but to almost not consider rail in favor of what will soon be clogged tollroads is rediculous.

[CDeb]

This place is turning into a Chron comments page.

[jfre81]

This place is turning into a Chron comments page.

Please don't degrade the good name of HAIF like that...that is blasphemy.

This has really gotta suck for everyone who's trudged through the construction of traffic day in and day out from the Katy area. Glad I'm not one of them...