Jeebus Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I see it as sexuality ultimately being a choice by definition, as is religon. They are two facets of a person that are not permanantly made visibile by their natural physical appearance (race, gender, age, or disability).What happened to private business? I'd hate we live in a "free" country where we'd be forced to hire people that don't agree with the principles & values of the business for which they were applying.How is anyone going to prove that they were not hired/fired for their sexual or religious preference? This is just going to degrade the work-place even further as it will give HR another reason not to fire someone in fear of a potential lawsuit. Any of you that work for a big company/corporation now can probably think of at least one person who can claim "minority" status (of any criteria: race, age, gender, or disability) that should be fired but HR won't touch them with a 10 foot pole in fear of a lawsuit. So what does that person do all day? Nothing. Absolutely nothing, and the company is powerless to do anything about it. So now you're forced to split their workload with your other co-workers who have no special minority status as an "ace" card to throw down if you are ever fired for not doing 120%.It sounds like small business owners will just have to keep doing what they've been doing: lie about why they didn't hire/fired you. As for the big companies & corporations? More corporate financial & labor waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 As I understand it, the federal government, several states, and local governments outlaw dicrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, but it is not disallowed (at least in federal law) in the workplace. The EEOC has determined that it applies to federal workers, but I do not believe that it currently applies to all workplaces, hence this bill.CDeb, my guess as to the HR policies you described is that because some locales where the company does business have protections based on orientation, they found it better to be consistent companywide.Jeebus, the Interstate Commerce Clause gives the government far reaching powers to regulate private business practices. Basically, if the government can show even a possibility of an effect on interstate commerce, it can be regulated. A pretty obvious link was shown when integrating lunch counters on or near roads and highways that cross state lines. However, the law is interpreted so broadly that virtually any business may be subject to its reach. In this case, any large company, transportation company, or any company that does business across state lines, or does business with travellers could be impacted. This is just a sample. The Supreme Court has allowed almost anything to qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Perhaps I am ignorant on the subject, but i was under the impression it is already illegal to discriminate in the work place, including homosexuality. So why is this important or even needed?Here in Texas, I can be fired from my job for the sole reason that I was born gay, and I can't do anything about that. In parts of the country it's illegal to discriminate against gays, but not across the entire country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Maybe so, but that's not to what I was referring. We were talking about "homosexuals being made fun of at the workplace.The bill addresses employee discrimination in hiring, firing and promotions not sure it addresses harassment.What if you don't get hired becuase you are gay? Let's say you apply to work at a Baptist Bookstore and they don't hire you for some reason.The bill excludes private orginizations, Religious groups and firms with less than 15 employees. Don't know if a bookstore would qualify for those exemptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Can you take them to court if you are gay? How do you prove it? How do they even know you are gay?I would think it would apply if you are fired for being Gay or percieved to be Gay. Some protection for our somewhat nellier straight brothers perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 What about the straight guy who I work with who acts gay ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 All the corporate training that I've had pounded into my head says that this is sexual harassment and is already illegal.sexual harassment is illegal whatever orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 What about the straight guy who I work with who acts gay ;-)I'm just dying to know. What does he do to act gay. His office really really neat? Reminds me of that thing Dana Karvey did on SNL about the worlds gayest straight man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webdude Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 What about the straight guy who I work with who acts gay ;-)You have an interesting workplace. Is he pretending to annoy you, knowing how you feel about gays? Why does he feel the need to to that, and how does one 'act gay'? Like I said , I had seen ppl making fun of gays at workplace before, including mimicking drag queen behavior in front of them and then laughing about it, is your friend 'acting gay' that way? Depending on the intention, it can be sexual harassment but mine was a pretty male charged environment so nothing was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Here in Texas, I can be fired from my job for the sole reason that I was born gay, and I can't do anything about that. In parts of the country it's illegal to discriminate against gays, but not across the entire country.Sure you can do something about it. Unlike skin color, age, gender, or disability, you can choose to not act gay, or practice your gay lifestyle in the workplace, if that business discourages or discriminates against it. Well, not anymore you won't have to.You can't choose your skin color, age, gender, or disability, which is why I 100% agree that you shouldn't be able to discriminate along those lines. Even if you are a Hooters.No one has brought it up, but how will this affect the military? Or will it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Are you homos really that abused in the workplace? I've been in the professional workforce for a number of years now and it has never been an issue in hiring and firing.I've never experienced any discrimination as a result of my sexual orientation, but have known people who have. And, I work in HR consulting, and have been aware of lawsuits for wrongful termination and abuse that were brought against employers due to accusations of discrimination based on sexual orientation.I've even been at one of my clients once when I heard someone in the HR office said "Oh, we decided not to hire that candidate because he's not Christian and we thought he was gay."With many employers it's not an issue. But there are some where it is, and there is no legal protection against it in most states. It's not all that different from 50 years ago when it was legal for an employer to refuse to promote a fully qualified employee based on the color of that employee's skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webdude Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Sure you can do something about it. Unlike skin color, age, gender, or disability, you can choose to not act gay, or practice your gay lifestyle in the workplace, if that business discourages or discriminates against it. Well, not anymore you won't have to.You can't choose your skin color, age, gender, or disability, which is why I 100% agree that you shouldn't be able to discriminate along those lines. Even if you are a Hooters.No one has brought it up, but how will this affect the military? Or will it?I don't think one can not act gay. Of course we have to know what exactly is acting gay. I meanif a person's partner comes to visit and gives the guy a peck on the lips, like a wife would kiss the husband when visiting, is that considered acting gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Sure you can do something about it. Unlike skin color, age, gender, or disability, you can choose to not act gay, or practice your gay lifestyle in the workplace, if that business discourages or discriminates against it. Well, not anymore you won't have to.Hmm... other than bringing my boyfriend up to the office and having sex with him on my desk, I'm curious how I would "practice my gay lifestyle in the workplace." The fact remains, that no matter how much I leave my personal life out of the office, my employer could legally call me tomorrow and say "We've decided to terminate you because we don't want homosexuals working here." And legally, they could get away with it. Fortunately I work for a pretty progressive employer that would probably never do something like that, but there are many cases where it happens, even to employees who left their personal lives at home far more than their heterosexual coworkers do.You can't choose your skin color, age, gender, or disability, which is why I 100% agree that you shouldn't be able to discriminate along those lines. Even if you are a Hooters.I don't know anyone, gay, straight, bi, or otherwise, who chose his or her sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 What happened to private business? I'd hate we live in a "free" country where we'd be forced to hire people that don't agree with the principles & values of the business for which they were applying.Well, businesses are still private. And nobody's forcing anyone to hire anyone with this legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I don't know anyone, gay, straight, bi, or otherwise, who chose his or her sexual orientation.My point is that homosexuals want the same equality rights afforded to them that are set for those who can not change their condition. You have no scientific way to prove that you are born gay, and anyone can decide at anytime to be or not be gay. Saying that you are born gay is like saying you were born Muslim and you can't help it. Your sexuality is a choice. Your emotions may lead you in a certain direction, but ultimately you have to choose whether you're going to act on those emotions.You can't choose to act a certain skin color and your skin turn that color. Just look at white teenage boys who act like the thug black rappers they listen to and emulate. There are some things you can't choose. Sexuality isn't one of them. To say that you can't is to insult those who have been discriminated for the things they can't change: color, age, gender, disablity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 My point is that homosexuals want the same equality rights afforded to them that are set for those who can not change their condition. You have no scientific way to prove that you are born gay, and anyone can decide at anytime to be or not be gay. Saying that you are born gay is like saying you were born Muslim and you can't help it. Your sexuality is a choice. Your emotions may lead you in a certain direction, but ultimately you have to choose whether you're going to act on those emotions.You can't choose to act a certain skin color and your skin turn that color. Just look at white teenage boys who act like the thug black rappers they listen to and emulate. There are some things you can't choose. Sexuality isn't one of them. To say that you can't is to insult those who have been discriminated for the things they can't change: color, age, gender, disablity.Religion is a protected category as far as discrimination goes. Since that is a "choice" should religious protections be eliminated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 My point is that homosexuals want the same equality rights afforded to them that are set for those who can not change their condition. You have no scientific way to prove that you are born gay, and anyone can decide at anytime to be or not be gay.I'd like to know how I can decide to not be gay. I could decide to have heterosexual sex, but would that somehow magically make me heterosexual? No. It wouldn't change the feelings of attraction and intimacy that I experience when I'm with my boyfriend. You could chose to engage in homosexual sex, but I doubt it would change any feelings of attraction you have to the opposite sex. Sexual orientation is a deeper issue than simply the behavior of having sex. If that was the case, then a virgin who has never engaged in any kind of sexual activity would have no orientation. Yet I doubt any of us would argue that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overseas Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 My point is that homosexuals want the same equality rights afforded to them that are set for those who can not change their condition. You have no scientific way to prove that you are born gay, and anyone can decide at anytime to be or not be gay. Saying that you are born gay is like saying you were born Muslim and you can't help it. Your sexuality is a choice. Your emotions may lead you in a certain direction, but ultimately you have to choose whether you're going to act on those emotions.You can't choose to act a certain skin color and your skin turn that color. Just look at white teenage boys who act like the thug black rappers they listen to and emulate. There are some things you can't choose. Sexuality isn't one of them. To say that you can't is to insult those who have been discriminated for the things they can't change: color, age, gender, disablity.In addition to religion, the federal government prohibits discrimination for pregnancy. It is also common for certain jurisdictions to prohibit discrimination based on marital status, political beliefs, or family status (i.e., having one). So even if you think homosexuality is a choice - and it isn't (and that is a whole other conversation) that is really irrelevant. Either gay people shouldn't be fired from their jobs simply for being gay, or they should. Seems like a simple call to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 You have no scientific way to prove that you are born gay, and anyone can decide at anytime to be or not be gay.I can't decide to be gay. I didn't decide to be straight. I'm sure bisexual people can pick and choose which gender they pair with, but the rest of us don't get that option.Did you decide to be straight and not gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestGrayGuy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 There was never a day I woke and said, "Hey I sure would like to be gay". Cheers to the House for protecting our jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't decide to be gay. I didn't decide to be straight. I'm sure bisexual people can pick and choose which gender they pair with, but the rest of us don't get that option.Well, bisexual people may be attracted to both sexes, but the question is, did they chose to be attracted to both sexes? Probably not. They just are.Anyway, we make this into a far bigger deal than it needs to be. If people would just learn to accept the differences that naturally exist, and not judge others on them, we'd all be a lot better off, and laws like this wouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately, it's human nature to tend to judge and discriminate against those who are somehow different, and we're all guilty of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 My point is that homosexuals want the same equality rights afforded to them that are set for those who can not change their condition. You have no scientific way to prove that you are born gay, and anyone can decide at anytime to be or not be gay. Saying that you are born gay is like saying you were born Muslim and you can't help it. Your sexuality is a choice. Your emotions may lead you in a certain direction, but ultimately you have to choose whether you're going to act on those emotions.Jeebus! You're a genius! Just don't be gay anymore. I know we can all go down to one of them there ex-gay ministries. PRAY I SAY! PRAY THAT GAY AWAY! No wait! We can click our ruby slippers three times and recite.....there's no orientation like STR8...there's no orientation like STR8...there's no orientation like STR8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Jeebus! You're a genius! Just don't be gay anymore. I know we can all go down to one of them there ex-gay ministries. PRAY I SAY! PRAY THAT GAY AWAY! Don't be gay, Sparky! Don't be gay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Religion is a protected category as far as discrimination goes. Since that is a "choice" should religious protections be eliminated?D'oh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 No one has brought it up, but how will this affect the military? Or will it?Military is not affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I'd like to know how I can decide to not be gay. I could decide to have heterosexual sex, but would that somehow magically make me heterosexual? No. It wouldn't change the feelings of attraction and intimacy that I experience when I'm with my boyfriend. You could chose to engage in homosexual sex, but I doubt it would change any feelings of attraction you have to the opposite sex. Sexual orientation is a deeper issue than simply the behavior of having sex. If that was the case, then a virgin who has never engaged in any kind of sexual activity would have no orientation. Yet I doubt any of us would argue that's the case.My point is this. You were born a certain color, and gender. As time goes on, you will age. You might have been born with a disibilty or you might gain one in time.Either way, you can not change any of those things. A Mexican woman can not walk into her office one day and decide to be a White man. She can however decide before walking into that office what her sexuality will be seen as (gay or straight) and what her religious preference will be (if she has one).So how do you give rights to something that can change daily? Now anyone who gets fired can say that they were fired because they're gay. How could you prove that they aren't?I guess if you're gay, or don't own a business - then you really wouldn't care would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Either way, you can not change any of those things. A Mexican woman can not walk into her office one day and decide to be a White man. She can however decide before walking into that office what her sexuality will be seen as (gay or straight) and what her religious preference will be (if she has one).Well, yes, I could chose to hide my sexual orientation, and I did that for years when I was younger. It wasn't psychologically healthy then, and it's not conducive to my mental health now. I don't prance into my clients' offices carrying a rainbow flag and wearing a t-shirt that proclaims my orientation. However, I'm not going to lie and say I have a wife or kids when I don't, just because that might make someone else I work with more comfortable. If I'm asked, I'll answer honestly. The fact that I have a boyfriend is not something I try to hide, but it's also something that doesn't usually come up in the normal course of my business. However, should it come up, I should have every right to honestly say that I'm in a relationship with someone of the same sex, just as you might say you have a wife or girlfriend, without fearing that I'm going to lose my job as a result. And my employer should have no right to fire me just for that reason, just as they should have no right to fire someone for being in a relationship with, or married to, a member of the opposite sex.Now, if I chose to disclose my sexual orientation by bringing my boyfriend to work and stripping down and getting it on in the middle of the office in front of everyone else, I should be disciplined accordingly. Not for being gay, but for inappropriate behavior, just as someone who is heterosexual should be disciplined for engaging in the same behavior in the workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 So how do you give rights to something that can change daily?Can your sexual orientation change daily? Mine never does that. Should I be concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rps324 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Can your sexual orientation change daily? Mine never does that. Should I be concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 D'oh!!! I doubt its the Christians that need protecting from discrimination in the workplace. Maybe the snake handlers if they must practice their religion in the workplace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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