Houston19514

The plans for the Texaco building have always included a residential component; both when it was originally slated to be a Ritz-Carlton and in the second iteration when it was slated to be a Renaissance.

The building was completed several years ago. The skyway and gardens are coming soon.

When one throws out nonsense like a "1200-1500' wide river of concrete" for the Grand Parkway, one starts losing credibility. I don't think there is a freeway in all of Houston that uses a 1200-1500' ROW, or anything even very close to that.

Read the article: "But was the city's investment in the center really worth it

The Chronicle has published a lot of ignorant articles over its history, and this one has to be near the top of the scale of ignorance. The addition to the convention center was not completed until late 2003 and they put out data showing attendance at convention center events dropped between 1999 and 2003, BEFORE the addition was even completed. And from that they conclude that the expansion of the convention center was not worth the expense. Sheesh. Do these people even read the garbage they write?

But the Metro positions are appointed by people you vote for. (and I guess that means Metro had to be in on the conspiracy too; I failed to include them in my earlier post). And we all know that Metro has never run behind on anything else it has ever done... ;-)

Oh, yes, how could I have forgotten about that grand conspiracy whereby the city of Houston, the road construction contractors and all of their subcontractors, probably TxDOT, Harris County, Harris County/Houston Sports Authority, Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, the Houston Texans, and the evil Reliant Energy all got together with the grand plan of tearing up Main Street three years before the completion of Reliant Stadium and leaving it torn up until the completion of Reliant Stadium, all for the purpose of driving out certain businesses. Whatever, man. That is just looney. Again, it's not like delays in road construction projects are unusual... Are all such delays part of some grand conspiracy, or was there something unique about this one? (In spite of your track record on "facts", I'm just accepting your recitation of the time it took to conduct the Main Street widening and improvements) And for what it's worth, it's also a democracy that decides who our elected officials are going to be. And it was those democratically-elected officials who conducted the Main Street widening/improvement project. That is no less legitimate than a democratically-imposed zoning. It appears that "gentrification done by forcing business out is wrong but legal" unless it fits into LarryDallas' master plan.

In another thread you told us that it was wrong to "force" businesses out just to satisfy some desire to gentrify or improve an area. How is what you are proposing here any different or less "wrong"?

Thanks for giving us a source. But, personally, I wouldnt put too much faith in About.com. Our Lady of Peace Our Lady of Peace Our Lady of Peace

Thank you jtmbin!! Very well said, and long overdue.

Or you could try doing some research before posting wild claims. It appears you have access to the internet. It's amazing what FACTS one can find with a little effort. (and again, the COUNTY, not the city, and not Reliant Energy, owns the Reliant Park complex. The Texans made their deal with the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, an entity owned by Harris County, not the city of Houston)

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody suggested that Reliant signed up "on a moment's notice." The naming rights deal was completed after months of marketing and negotiations with various competitors for the rights. And no doubt at least weeks of negotiations between Reliant and the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation for the final deal. Why in your rather fertile imagination would the deal have to have been done behind closed doors before construction of the stadium was even begun? That's just illogical and is not the way these deals tend to occur. The companies buying the naming rights to these sports facilities like to see what they are putting their names on and get a pretty good physical idea of what the signage oppoortunities are, etc, etc. Okay, they weren't all red-light type establishments. Your point? I don't know where you got the idea that I think family businesses mean "for families." I did not have any such thing in mind... But in any event, your point would be...?? Yes, I really believe in the free market. Where would you get any idea suggesting otherwise? What in anything I've written in this thread or anywhere else would give anyone the idea that I might think that free enterprise "seem to apply only when a business fits in with your value and moral system which is all very subjective." Where do you come up with this stuff? I have no argument whatsoever with the rights of adult bookstore owners, pay-by-the-hour motels, and smoke shops to do business, so long as they comply with the law, and I have written nothing to suggest otherwise. I certainly do believe in free enterprise and the full right of any property owner to sell his property as he sees fit. It was you who said otherwise. You say power of eminent domain was used to take land for the expansion of South Main. You may be stepping on your point here. Were the businesses along Main taken for the parking lots or were they taken by eminent domain for the widening of Main Street? In any event, you are saying that they DELAYED the completion of the widening project to coincide with the opening of the stadium? Let me get this right... you are actually suggesting some vast conspiracy of Bob McNair, Harris County, the city, the roadbuilders, the Harris County Houston Sports Authority, the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, and, oh, of course, the grand puppetmaster, Reliant Energy to stretch out a road construction project for three years just to force some "undesirables" out? Whew. Seems like it would have been a LOT cheaper and a LOT easier just to buy them out. I don't know what else to say to that idea, other than LOL. You know, it's not like delays in road-building projects are unheard of in Houston. Or all of those delays part of some grand conspiracy to drive certain businesses out. Are the delays in the downtown street projects an attempt to drive out Shell Oil, Reliant Energy, Calpine, etc. Better yet, maybe those delays were a grand conspiracy to drive out Enron, and look, it WORKED. ;-) Why is it wrong to "get businesses to go" if they are in the way of a major road expansion or if they are bought out in a free market exchange (and you have shown me none who were in any way "forced" out in any way other than by eminent domain for the road expansion.) I agree, more power to them if they wanted to do business in those locations (so long as they complied with the laws). But, also, more power to them if they choose to sell their business in a volunatry exchange. And again, if they were just lessees, they have no rights or expectations beyond the term of their lease. If their property owner wants to sell to someone who is going to tear down the building, that is his/her right. The business owner has the right then to find a new location. Again, don't be ridiculous; of course it comes as no shock to me that laws may be broken occasionally in the Four Seasons, etc. But, again, what is your point? If someone wants to buy the Four Seasons Hotel and tear it down, more power to them. If the Four Seasons were next to a road being widened and had to be seized by eminent domain, well, so what? (and remember a taking by eminent domain does not mean the property is just taken; the property owner still must get fair compensation for the property.) I really don't understand what your point is. Was it somehow wrong for city leaders to want to clean up Main Street to make things look a little nicer for residents and visitors alike, to make Houston, to use a popular phrase, a more "liveable city?" Other than your rather crazy conspiracy theory, do you have any evidence supporting your claim that businesses were forced out unfairly or illegally?

Well, yes, yes, yes. There is no denying that the SuperBowl was in the dreams of both Bob McNair and the leadership of Houston before the Texans started playing (and I never suggested otherwise). But it is quite a stretch of logic to say that, therefore the site and design of the Reliant Stadium and Reliant Park complex were "developed fast to get that super bowl in". In fact, the selection of the Astrodome grounds for the stadium site, and the basic design of Reliant Park, was a done-deal well before the Texans were even awarded their NFL franchise; this was not a rushed deal by any stretch of the imagination. I don't really know what your point is regarding the few businesses that were, in your memory, bought out along Main Street to make way for the Main Street entrance to Reliant Park and additional parking. (I must say, it's just a little difficult to follow your arguments... one line you're complaining about the lack of parking and the next you're complaining about moves they made to increase parking.) Was eminent domain used to buy out these businesses (other than those who you claim were removed by eminent domain for the widening of Main Street)? If not, I can not see what the issue or complaint is (and I'll return to the whole free market issue in a later response). (And I think there will be an opportunity to discuss the matter of eminent domain for road widening in my comments on a later paragraph.)

This is getting very tedious, so I'll just take one paragraph at a time... I don't know what this mythical "Houston Sports Authority" is that you keep referring to... Do you perhaps mean the Houston Sports Assosciation? That would be the private group that owned the Houston Astros... and signed a 40-year lease on the facility in 1961. Astrodome Lease Please note I never said the Astros OWNED the Astrodome. The Astrodome is and always has been owned by Harris County. If you are meaning to refer to the Houston Sports ASSOCIATION, you are absolutely right, they did oversee every aspect of the dome. But, as I've demonstrated, the Houston Sports Association WAS the same entity as the Astros. Now, I have not been able to track down yet the exact relationship of the Oilers to the dome. But if the Astros have the primary lease, they would certainly have an interest in keeping the Oilers happy and playing in the facility. (The Astros, or Houston Sports Association wouldn't make much money on concessions etc if the Oilers were playing in Jacksonville, which they were threatening to do at the time of the remodeling.) That would explain why they would go along with the removal of the scoreboard and expansion of seating in order to keep the Oilers in town.

Wingate Inn Is this the hotel you are talking about or has another one been proposed?

I'm just curious... was this building ever really renamed ChevronTexaco Tower? I was under the impression they had never bothered with renaming it since ChevronTexaco pretty much moved out when the merger occurred.

Well, alright then, let's start with the first paragraph. The Harris County Sports Authority, presuming you are referring to the Harris County Houston Sports Authority never was in charge of the Dome, NEVER, let alone for three decades. The owner of the Astros had control of the Dome until the Astros moved to MinuteMaid Park. Second Paragraph: Reliant Stadium was not built in any hurry-up fashion for the SuperBowl, that was just icing on the cake. That should be fairly obvious to anyone "familiar" with the area, given that the stadium opened in 2002 but the SuperBowl was not until 2004. Regardless, Reliant had little, if anything, to do with any supposed "fast development" and they certainly had NOTHING to do with the site selection or architecture of the stadium. Reliant just has a naming-rights agreement, that's all; they do not in any way control the development or operations of Reliant Park. They did not even come into the picture until well after the stadium was under construction... a little late for them to be responsible for the location of the stadium, don't you think? Likewise with regard to Reliant Center... that was already well under construction before Reliant entered the picture. With regard to buying out the people to the west, I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of that land was vacant, and again, Reliant had nothing to do with it. The dome and all of Reliant Park are controlled now by the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, with large influence, obviously, from the Houston Texans and the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo organization. In any event, the purchases and sales were voluntary. I don't believe they used the power of eminent domain. Yes, further up Main Street, some other properties have been cleaned up, but I don't know that any of that was done through the power of eminent domain either. So the city and the all-powerful powers-that-be wanted to clean up Main Street downtown and Reliant Park... what is wrong with that? Third paragraph: Again, Reliant had nothing whatsoever to do with the location or development of any of the facilities at Reliant Park, nor do they now own, control, or operate Reliant Park. That is plainly and simply a matter of historical record. You seem to be making some assumptions about these "family-owned businesses" who were "driven from the land". Do you actually know that was the case? In any event, you say that it is somehow "wrong" for one person to buy another person's property in a free and open exchange when the seller has a family-owned business on his property? I'm not sure what kind of economic system you have in mind to impose down there in Houston, but in most of America and in most free-market economies, a person who leases a property only has the right to stay there until the lease expires. They have no rights or reasonable expectations beyond that. You are absolutely right, the economic development folks in Houston wanted to get rid of a lot of the rather-shady businesses and motels that were operating on South Main. It's kind of cute to see someone wave the flag of "family-owned businesses" in honor of by-the-hour motels, massage parlors, modeling studios and such. And again, as far as I know, all of this was done without invoking the power of the state (in other words without using eminent domain or condemnation); it was all done in free market transactions. Fourth paragraph: The age of Bob McNair is largely, if not completely irrelevant. The deals are with his corporation, not with him personally. The corporation will survive him. The Texans have thirty-year stadium lease and non-relocation agreement with the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation (note, the agreement is NOT with Reliant because of course Reliant has no control over the facility). Fifth and Sixth paragraphs: I have no argument with your proposal to turn the dome into a museum. The more ideas for the dome the better. Seventh paragraph: The city is not currently involved in the dome property at all and never has been, and the last thing I would think we need is another government entity to get involved. And again, Reliant has no "claim to the dome," other than the right to have their name on it, so we call your proposal the Reliant Astrodome Museum of Everyting Related to Houston ;-) Eighth paragraph: I have no clue. I'll presume you're right about the Ryan O'Neil movie. P.S. No, I do not now and never have worked for Reliant or any of its current or former affiliated companies. I have no connection to Reliant whatsoever. Just call me a stickler for accuracy.

Editor, since there is almost nothing correct in the entire quoted post, could you please just go ahead and delete it?

I'm with Glen. I like that waterfall (it's unfortunate that it is not consistently operating), and I like the whole building, especially considering that it is primarily a parking garage. I think it was a creative and splendid way to "hide" a parking garage.

I think that Kirksey design is a potential Landry's project on Post Oak Blvd, next to the Landry's corporate headquarters building.

I'm with you, 2112. I like the new courthouse, and the closer it gets to completion, the more I'm liking it.

I don't know about any of the others you listed (and can't verify or dispute since you don't give us any names), but the TD Jakes Church in Dallas seats 8,000, barely bigger than Lakewood's CURRENT facility. As you can see on the Lakewood site, the new Lakewood worship center will seat more than 16,000. I must say, one of the more tiresome and annoying things about this board is when people throw out "facts" without checking them out first.

Do you mean the Boston Garden that was demolished in 1997... is that the Boston Garden you are referring to? ;-)