Is Nieman Marcus Staying?

[tw2ntyse7en]

Anyone know the fate of Nieman Marcus at the Town & Country Mall?

[houstonsemipro]

Nieman Marcus is staying, the rest is going.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[UrbaNerd]

I'd think that NM would move to Memorial, and the purchaser of the mall would tear the entire darned thing down....

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[firstngoal]

That's what I thought, but according to the article I posted a link to earlier - they're stayting. Maybe once torn down, the site of the mall will host a new section of Town & Country Village..

Glen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are definitely on the right track there, my friend. Neiman-Marcus is staying. They have done some great demographic/trade analysis studies and they are convinced that location (in Town & Country) is exactly where they want to be.

The freshly cleared site will not be a host for a new section of Town & Country Village, but lets just say that it will compliment T & C Village (and Neiman Marcus) and will be a great addition to the Memorial area (and Houston overall). Think dense mixed-use/tight urban focus... and you are definitely on the right track. It'll be one of those projects that people on this forum have been crying for (within the Houston City Limits) for quite some time.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[firstngoal]

They are not ready for release as there is still a lot of work to do... stay tuned. The site (the old mall) will be clear (except Neiman Marcus and Luby's) by 3/05. This will be a project to watch come to fruition over the next year...

[texasdago]

They are not ready for release as there is still a lot of work to do... stay tuned. The site (the old mall) will be clear (except Neiman Marcus and Luby's) by 3/05. This will be a project to watch come to fruition over the next year...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I contacted one of the developers a few months ago since I had heard quite a few positive things in store. They got back to me immediately. The developers know the area well and grew up in Houston. I think what we'll see is something akin to what was built in Dallas where the Vespa store is located. I can't remember what it's called... it is mixed-use with residential, retail on the ground level, a theater, restaurants, etc. Somewhat like what you see in midtown in the areas where they got it right. It should be great.

[UrbaNerd]

I really hope they do a good job with this thing! I mean, imagine: apartments over retial...urban streetscenes... ooohhh....

[banking214]

I contacted one of the developers a few months ago since I had heard quite a few positive things in store.  They got back to me immediately.  The developers know the area well and grew up in Houston.  I think what we'll see is something akin to what was built in Dallas where the Vespa store is located.  I can't remember what it's called... it is mixed-use with residential, retail on the ground level, a theater, restaurants, etc.  Somewhat like what you see in midtown in the areas where they got it right.  It should be great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The area in Dallas you are referring to is called West Village (www.westvil.com). It is a great area the the city really needed. At any given point during the day people can be found eating, drinking, shopping, etc. It truely is something increadible. You really feel as if you are in another city. I think this will be a wonderful addition to Houston.

[UrbaNerd]

VERY Cool. I drove by T&C last week, and they were already tearing down parts of it. Hopefully, things can get done fast. Also, I heard that some of the stores closer to the I-10/BW8 stack are also going to be demolished (the old theater, the EZ Tag store, Bennigans, Chili's). WIll this be part of the development?

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[UrbaNerd]

I read about it at www.texasfreeway.com ( on the I-10 expansion page).

[Talbot]

Wow if this urban village you guys are talking about is true, than I really can't wait. Im definately gonna keep my open for something. Exciting.

[Parrothead]

Bennigan's has closed its doors as of three weeks ago to make room for the freeway expansion. I chatted with some staff at Chili's and they say they are not closing but will sit instead on the future feeder road and will expect more business than ever! Fine with me, 'cause I love Chili's!

I took some pics of the T&C mall demolition. This was about a week ago. I am going to take more this week. I will post them later.

It's sort of a bittersweet farewell for me, as I was just a tiny tot when we lived in Fleetwood and came over to shop when it was an open-air shopping center and not a mall. We used to go to Panjo's Pizza and Dad would go shop with Mom at Sakowitz. Those were the days!

I remember the mall's peak, in the 80's, with Neiman's, Marshall Field's, Joske's, and Penney's....there was a McDonald's in the mall (back then, that was rare!). I remember Abercrombie & Fitch when they were an upscale OUTFITTER, much like LL Bean...and I remember when Neuhaus Chocolates was still around. In my 20's (1990's), I was the manager of The Bombay Company in the mall until 1994 or thereabouts.

The design of the place was its biggest problem. I am glad to hear of the future plans for the space.

BTW, does anyone know what happened to the Hunan's II restaurant that used to occupy the building in front of the mall on the Toll Road side, with Black-Eyed Pea? I loved their food, they'd been there for years.

[pineda]

That was a very low-performing Bennigan's store, so no great loss there.

[citykid09]

Town And Country Mall being demolished.

[SpaceAge]

Town and Country Mall was the nicest and best looking mall in the city especially at the time it was built. The Galleria was still in its dark and brown period in the 1980's (did not update until about 2002 or so!). Is T&C not the newest mall in Houston and about the third or forth newest mall in the region? I missed the open air quality of the original outdoor shopping center, but the new T&C mall was a beauty. There was no sea of parking lots and the interior of the mall was very clean and well designed. The seating areas and large planters were the nicest I had ever seen. It had all the qualities featured in the design magazines I was studying at the time.

Most of the roof over the mall portion was covered in white fabric similar to the roof at Minute Maid baseball stadium. I wonder why the roof at T&C is still white 20 years later and the Minute Maid roof was a filthy brown after one year?

The location of the mall was not really the problem. Neiman Marcus remains very busy most days even with the mall closed. That shows people can get there and will come if there is something desireable being offered. After you have been there once or twice, you find the best ways get in and park. It looks like those routes will remain about the same since they seem to be leaving all the existing parking garages.

Timing may have been the largest reason for the struggle of the mall. It came on line around the time Houston was experiencing it's worst economy ever and never had a chance to get established. As the stores closed, the reputation was tarnished and never recovered. It went into bankruptcy and could never attract a buyer that would market it and get the stores that people wanted to shop.

As for the "future," Houston has tried the urban center before. It had retail, entertainment, offices and residential all in a pseudo urban/European setting. Remember Westbury Square? It was a giant success for ten years or so but then the Galleria opened and nobody wanted the urban village any longer. The hippies scared off the remaining shoppers. Residents and businesses left and 80% of the place was eventually lost to a Home Depot. A small portion struggles to exist but the place is in ruins, unfortunately.

[jmancuso]

i still wonder why malls have become so pass

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Parrothead]

SpaceAge, I wonder if the revitalization of Meyerland had more to do with Westbury Square's demise than the Galleria.

I think that had WS been revitalized before Meyerland we'd be talking about how sad it is to see Meyerland go down the tubes instead. WS still has a chance if they can get the right plans and cater to a certain niche that Meyerland isn't filling.

All in all I agree 100% with your assessment of Town & Country's death. I too believe it was not the exit ramps or streets or entrances, but timing.

My hope is that the lesson will not be lost on the new center they intend to build in its place.

[westguy]

A/C used to be uncommon in cars. Now you can just drive from store to store. You barely have to use your legs.

[kzseattle]

A/C used to be uncommon in cars. Now you can just drive from store to store. You barely have to use your legs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup! All the while ensuring that we stay on the top among nation's fattest cities.

By the way, I dont think all malls are dying. Its survival of the fittest. The underperforming ones would vanish. Others are going to stay. Like I mentioned once before, people dont go to mall just to shop. Many go there to pass time, window shop and watch people. You cant do this at a strip mall.

[SpaceAge]

Parrothead:

Westbury Square was having problems leasing space by 1972 and it went down hill quickly after that, as the Galleria became more established. People were introduced to the upscale offerings at the Galleria and while WBSQ was full of unique specialty shops and non-chain stores, it could not compete. You can always tell a center is hurting when a Tuesday Morning opens in several spaces that have been vacated long ago as happened in WBSQ in 1979 or so. But then if Tuesday Morning moves out (as also happened at WBSQ)- it's all over for that center!

Meyerland was more of a typical shopping center at a major intersection and did not compete for the same market segment . I think Meyerland was redone about 1992 or so and WBSQ was not even on the radar as being viable by that time.

It's really sad what has happened at Westbury Square. It went from the very top to near the bottom of the pile. It was the most exciting place to be in the 1960's. When my uncle graduated from Rice in 1965, a reception for him and and several of his classmates was held at one of the restaurant/clubs at WBSQ. He received the keys to his graduation present, a new red MG convertible, there.

Have there been any improvements at WBSQ lately? I was there last summer and it really has so much potential but is very depressing due to it's state of dis-repair. Only three or four of the shops are intact enough to be in use and most of the residential space above looked vacant. The roofs, walls, windows, doors, awnings, lighting, walkways, landscaping and parking lots all need major repairs.

There were about four antique stores and a theater group there.

Back to Town and Country: Does anyone remember the FLAMING PIT Restaurant? It was located on the Northwest side of Sakowitz. It was like a Steak and Ale but more family friendly. There was one in Northwest Mall also. Seems something happened to the franchise and they changed the name to the FLAMING HEARTH.

The best feature of the FLAMING PIT/ HEARTH was the treasure chest! The children were allowed to visit the treasure chest if they had behaved during their meal. There was a mat on the floor in front of the treasure chest and as the child stepped up to the chest, a recording would begin and then the lid would open. The child was instructed to choose a treasure from inside. It was so exciting! I still have some of those treasures.

And the PILLOW PARLOR!!! It was located near the present James Coney Island. It was a twenty foot diameter glass tower filled with hundreds of bowls. No.....PILLOWS. Hundreds of pillows. Pillows of every description. One tremendous pile of pillows. My mother saw the danger of letting us go in there so we could only look through the glass.

[Parrothead]

Well that would explain a lot I was about 2 when WS started having issues

I really only remember a few things about the old T & C; however, I vaguely remember the Flaming Pit and think that we did visit it. It was the treasure chest that got me thinking. I will have to ask my sister.

I remember a fountain that was outside Sakowitz....I remember Panjo's Pizza......a grocery store, I can't remember which one....of course the Chocolate Soup, where my mom got our easter dresses each year when we were little and thankfully it is still there! I remember a really good Chinese place but the name is lost on me. It was in a building that stood where Skeeter's and all that was. I also remember Sweeney's!

[SpaceAge]

Panjo's Pizza Parlor was really an edgy place back then. It had the family dining area on the West side, the kitchen in the center and the Hippie dining area on the East side. Each dining room had it's own entrance from the parking lot. You could see into the Hippie area through the kitchen and it looked scary- complete with graffiti and black light posters. We were not allowed to go over there.

Both sides had really crude heavy thick dark wood benches (with no backs) and tables. It was very dark in there and they had no plates or silverware. They had a "Pizza is Eaten With the Fingers" sign. All you had to put the food on was a thin paper napkin and the cheese always stuck to the paper. It was great pizza however. Pizza was a new food to us. We had never had it before we moved to that area. The best part was the honky-tonk/ ragtime piano. They often had someone play it loud and fast on busy nights and people would sing. It was a player piano also.

Princes Hamburgers had a location down from Panjo's and around the corner of that building, closer to Memorial Drive. They had a red princess style telephone on each table to call your order into the kitchen and they brought it out to you. Each table had it's own telephone number! That was so high-tech for the time. I guess those of you under 30 years old have no idea what a princess style telephone is.

Was the grocery store a Minimax at first then a Continental Finer Foods? It had a Spanish motif complete with balconies high above the two story center area. The balconies were decorated with manequins dressed like senoritas and senors, mexican pottery and paper flowers. The drug store was a SuperX at first then it became an Eckerds.

[UrbaNerd]

As long as I have known T&C, it has been a dead mall. It had an interesting toy store, where one could find strange collectible toys from the 80's, and before that. Still, I will not miss the mall, and I am looking forward to the great development promised for the site.

Say..any news on the start/completion dates and if it the timeline will be aligned to the Katy FW construction?

[texasdago]

I wish we could track down some pictures of what T&C Village used to look like before they put up the mall.

It's hard to forget Panjo's. You could order pizza shaped like a star, an airplane or other cool shapes. As a kid, I also liked going there because you could get a free Panjo's spinning top.

There was the old Country Playhouse, complete with windmill. Across the street was the Barbizon Art Gallery, right next to Joske's. Oshman's used to be there, as well, before they moved to the Gessner area.

Oh... as for that Chinese place? I used to love their shrimp.

Someone must have pictures...

[tw2ntyse7en]

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