Northgate Forest Wants To Secede From Spring ISD?

[pineda]

(This is from a recent Klein ISD Press Release)

KISD Considers New Course: Global Business

[SpringTX]

What is the new magnet school in Klein?

Yes, it's called VISTAS - someone posted a link to it earlier. I hadn't heard of it until then. It's new and it's just 300 kids for starters. Basically, you can imagine it's all the Greenwood Forest and Huntwick kids.

[pineda]

the Vistas Vikings

I think Vistas is primarily for an accelerated learning experience, either for those wishing to graduate early or for those lagging behind who may have been in danger of not graduating on time.

The IBA magnet program at Klein Forest is an excellent step in the right direction for the Klein district!

[Chris]

Yes, it's called VISTAS - someone posted a link to it earlier. I hadn't heard of it until then. It's new and it's just 300 kids for starters. Basically, you can imagine it's all the Greenwood Forest and Huntwick kids.

Actually Kids from all 4 High Schools are enrolled at this campus. Students meet at their assigned campus at 7:30am, then a bus from each High School campus takes these students to Vistas. Students can also drive. Students here recieve laptops to use for the school year. Its part of the Technology plan from the 2004 Bond Plan. Students at Krimmel will be the first regular campus next year to recieve laptops in Klein ISD according to Klein ISD Officials.

[mrfootball]

Do they keep them separated from the General Population?

What about the K thru 8 kids?

[Chris]

Do they keep them separated from the General Population?

What about the K thru 8 kids?

The Vistas Program is really designed for High School Students. It is geared toward pushing students to try harder to graduate, students who dont benefit from their home campus. The student ratio is smaller in Vistas than at a home campus. I assume it is easier to concentrate and perform a better effort there. Students still go to their home campus for extracurricular activities such as Band, Orchestra, Choir, Athletics, Dance, Drill Team and more. It's a really good program.

[mrfootball]

They'll need a K-8 program for people in the aforementioned neighborhoods to feel comfortable sending their kids to school. Again, separated from the General Population. Families simply won't move in to areas where they feel their children are threatened, which is really sad because these original areas used to be terrific for families, and spurred all of the rest of the massive development in the NW quadrant of Houston.

[SpringTX]

Students still go to their home campus for extracurricular activities such as Band, Orchestra, Choir, Athletics, Dance, Drill Team and more. It's a really good program.

The new Wunsche magnet school in Spring works the same way. It completely removes a student from the "general inmate population" more so than the honors classes even did. You can return to your home school for after-school activities like Band, Golf, Tennis, or other "safe" activity. Or you can do private activities if you don't even want to set foot on your home campus. (I've set foot on the Westfield High School campus not long ago and I wouldn't blame anyone who isn't carrying an automatic weapon to want to avoid that experience.)

I'm not sure which program in Klein is the way to achieve this: VISTAS, IBA at KF, or both. I don't see any TEA data for either yet. I see that VISTAS is located on Bammel N. Houston - about as far south in the district as you can get. It could be that one of these programs eventually evolves into something like the Spring and Aldine magnet high schools.

I actually attended an inner-city magnet high school up north aeons ago. Good magnet schools can be as good or better than typical upscale suburban high schools. There are advantages and disadvantages, but it's definitely one avenue to get a decent education.

Mrfootball is also right about a magnet middle school needed. In Spring ISD, Bammel is downright scary. And you can't expect people to spend $35,000 to send their kid to a private middle school for 3 years when they're already paying $5,000/year in school taxes. Last I heard, Spring ISD was planning a magnet middle school: something arts-related. But with the last bond failing to pass, I wonder if that's even on the calendar any more. Spring ISD is in a world of hurt right now and will be even worse if the next bond fails to pass.

[mrfootball]

Somebody mentioned that residents/districts can fight developers in court if they threaten to over-saturate with apartments/multi-family housing. Is this true? Can someone elaborate? I personally feel that Apartment owners and other Slumlords don't pay their fair share in school or property taxes in relation to the impact they tend to have on the community and surrounding areas.

[pineda]

Klein Oak also has the International Baccalaureate Program. Students from Klein, Klein Collins and Klein Forest may attend as well. Vistas, IB and IBA are all different options for Klein ISD students and great alternative approaches to the "one size fits all" out-moded educational system.

[SpringTX]

Somebody mentioned that residents/districts can fight developers in court if they threaten to over-saturate with apartments/multi-family housing. Is this true? Can someone elaborate? I personally feel that Apartment owners and other Slumlords don't pay their fair share in school or property taxes in relation to the impact they tend to have on the community and surrounding areas.

Every time a new low-income apartment complex goes into the 1960 area, nearby subdivisions try to stop it from happening (in the courts). There is some sort of statute saying that, if there are "too many" low-income apartment complexes concentrated in an area, that more cannot be built. The definition of "too many" is open to interpretation, though. The Cranbrook subdivision in Spring ISD many years ago fought an apartment complex from being built and they succeeded in stopping it. The Ponderosa Forest residents were gearing up to fight that same battle a couple years ago but the developer ran away when he saw the public resistance mounting.

[pineda]

I think the same situation happened last year in the Tomball area as well.

[VicMan]

I agree that the North Harris school districts also need magnet programs for elementary and middle school students. Perhaps Spring ISD can start a specific magnet K-8.

[mrfootball]

I think this applies to apartment developers who use public money to finance these projects in what's called Tax Credit Housing. These can be fought.

Texas is kind of sneaky the way they disperse their 'projects'. They'll put them right into normal middle class areas. Apartment owners/slumlords get certain tax breaks and other financial advantages if they make a certain % of units available for poor people on rental assistance.

[shinoda28107]

I agree that the North Harris school districts also need magnet programs for elementary and middle school students. Perhaps Spring ISD can start a specific magnet K-8.

Aldine ISD has a program like that...not that bad.

[Chris]

How about something like this?

I don't think there'd be much trouble getting this through the county commissioner's office, as Bob Eckels lives in Woods of Wimbledon. I imagine he understands what it would mean to the county if the home values in this area rose by 20% or more.

Mr. Football, where did you get this map from and how did you make it? It is very neat and nice. It looks professional.

[Chris]

How about something like this?

I don't think there'd be much trouble getting this through the county commissioner's office, as Bob Eckels lives in Woods of Wimbledon. I imagine he understands what it would mean to the county if the home values in this area rose by 20% or more.

Where did you get this map from and how did you make it? It looks very professional.

[Mom22Blessings]

Aldine ISD has a program like that...not that bad.

It hasn't helped much there. I've been in the Aldine Magnet schools and they aren't that much different. "Teaching to the test" is standard there. Parties, trips etc for all who pass TAKS (or whatever it's called now). Pull-outs for extracurricular classes are across the board too. After being in Aldine, it's showed me I never want to teach east of 45....

[mrfootball]

After seeing just about every Aldine School (K-12) appear in Texas Monthly's "best schools" issue last month, I have to say there's something fishy going on with that district (ahem...cooking the books...ahem...excuse me). If one didn't know any better, just going on Tx Monthly's data, you'd think it was on par with Eanes ISD or something.

[VicMan]

It hasn't helped much there. I've been in the Aldine Magnet schools and they aren't that much different. "Teaching to the test" is standard there. Parties, trips etc for all who pass TAKS (or whatever it's called now). Pull-outs for extracurricular classes are across the board too. After being in Aldine, it's showed me I never want to teach east of 45....

I actually have an idea for a magnet in Aldine HS (or Macarthur HS): An Airline Careers Magnet that not only has programs for aspiring Pilots (Houston ISD's Sterling HS has this), but in addition also prepares for careers such as Air Traffic Control, Commercial Airline Management, and other fields related to commercial aviation. I would ask Continental Airlines to provide some funding for this program, since the program is intended to produce employees for commercial airlines.

Of course, I want Aldine schools to be a part of Houston ISD so that all Houstonians have access to such a program.

And, I understand teaching to the test for the weakest students, but not for people who desire specialized programs and people who are beyond the state minimum.

[VicMan]

By the way, is there a website for the group that wants Northgate Forest rezoned?

I would like to see a deal negotiated that would involve:

* Construction of a new high school in the Northgate area (that so called "Hughes HS") which would have about 2,000 people

* Construction of two new middle schools (one in the current Klein ISD, one in the current Spring ISD) to relieve the middle schools in the Northgate area (Wunderlich, Wells, Bammell) that would leave the three Northgate middle schools at about 1,000 people per school

[mrfootball]

According to the Texas Education Code when an area detaches, it usually takes the schools in that area with them. Therefore, in the hyphothetical scenario depicted in the image above: Oak Creek Elementary, Wells Middle, Ponderosa Elementary and Bammel Elementary would all be part of the 'new' district - same would hold true for the Klein areas that detach (though I think it'd get tricky figuring out who gets KF & Wunderlich).

[VicMan]

When an area unattaches, it usually takes the schools in that area with them. Therefore, in the hyphothetical scenario depicted in the image above: Oak Creek Elementary, Wells Middle, Ponderosa Elementary and Bammel Elementary would all be part of the 'new' district - same would hold true for the Klein areas that detach (though I think it'd get tricky figuring out who gets KF & Wunderlich).

Oak Creek is now known as Reynolds ES.

Now, assuming that the same number of students attending the schools would attend when the new district comes (and this adds Greenwood Forest), I will add these numbers together, divide them by six, and then multiply by four (for HS) and three (for MS)

*664 Greenwood Forest

*648 Bammel

*988 Reynolds

*817 Ponderosa

Total for six: 3117

Each one: 519.5

Total for four: 2078 <-- Hughes

Total for three: 1558.5 <-- Wells

[VicMan]

By the way, Mr. Football, how many additional students do you think would come to GF, Bammel, Reynolds, and Ponderosa due to rezoning or placing in a new school district? Right now I'm getting statistics for a hypothetical "If the student count remained the same" set of statistics

I also checked the majority-minority rate of the newly-created schools...

If the student count remained the same:

Majority/Minority rate

* White

Greenwood Forest: 192.56

Bammel: 116.4

Reynolds: 247

Ponderosa: 212.42

(I'm going by percentages; of course Greenwood doesn't have .56th of a person )

Total for six: 768.38 / 3117 = 24.65% White

* African American

Greenwood Forest: 119.52

Bammel: 285.12

Reynolds: 266.76

Ponderosa: 318.63

Total for six: 990.03 / 3117 = 31.76%

* Hispanic

Greenwood Forest: 256.6

Bammel: 233.28

Reynolds: 414.96

Ponderosa: 245.1

Total for six: 1149.94 / 3117 = 36.89%

* Asian

Greenwood Forest: 79.68

Bammel: 6.48

Reynolds: 59.28

Ponderosa: 32.68

Total for six: 178.12 / 3117 = 5.7%

And the free/reduced lunch count

Greenwood Forest: 258.96

Bammel: 505.44

Reynolds: 582.92

Ponderosa: 490.2

Total for six: 1837.54 = 58.95% Free/Reduced Lunch

[SpringTX]

I also checked the majority-minority rate of the newly-created schools...

If the student count remained the same:

Majority/Minority rate

* White

Total for six: 768.38 / 3117 = 24.65% White

* African American

Total for six: 990.03 / 3117 = 31.76%

* Hispanic

Total for six: 1149.94 / 3117 = 36.89%

* Asian

Total for six: 178.12 / 3117 = 5.7%

And the free/reduced lunch count

Greenwood Forest: 258.96

Total for six: 1837.54 = 58.95% Free/Reduced Lunch

Happy Holidays everyone. Let me just say that I think this is an awesome mental exercise and a great attempt to provide a workable solution to a very tragic situation.

But this data shows exactly what I suspected. 25% white? Almost 60% receiving free lunches (economically disadvantaged)?

Would new middle-class families with kids move into those neighborhoods? Would parents in those neighborhoods take their kids out of private school and put them in public school? Would the new public schools be likely to earn high TEA ratings that real estate agents could tout? I don't think any of these would happen. I think the only time we would see re-gentrification is when space is in high demand, like inside the loop. My guess is that the sociologist's "tipping point" is at least 2/3 white for the Houston suburbs.

[TAK]

i find this interesting (because i am looking to move in 2007 and i like the houses in GF)...

looking at the numbers above, let me ask some of you a question. i hope you can answer.

do you think the white population would have a problem with the racial makeup of the hypothetical above if the average household income were 70k+? Or, do we just assume that white people don't want to be around blacks and mexicans, regardless of income (class)... (i'm guessing asians are ok, because you never hear about flight from asians...)

i've always thought (hoped) it was more about class than race, but as i read, i'm starting to think class has little to do with it and race has a lot to do with it. i get the feeling that class separation occurs more within the races than on the whole. a couple of drives through some of the new neighborhoods support this, but i want to be wrong...

[mrfootball]

I think professionals like to be around professionals. Educated people around other Educated people. Two-parent families around two-parent families, etc. These types of commonalities usually transcend race, especially when we're talking apples to apples. You just don't notice race and its not a problem, because its colorblind.

On the other hand, when strong cultural influences are introduced that emphasize one's ethnicity, then there are deep divisions. Ultimately, most people (white, black, brown, etc) like to be around people with similar cultures and values.

[SpringTX]

do you think the white population would have a problem with the racial makeup of the hypothetical above if the average household income were 70k+? Or, do we just assume that white people don't want to be around blacks and mexicans, regardless of income (class)... (i'm guessing asians are ok, because you never hear about flight from asians...)

Assuming the income level and homeownership status and number of parents in the household are the same...

There are 2 types of friends that my kids have.

A ) The first are "close" friends, where the friends come stay at our house for extended periods of time: sleepovers, etc. We know the other parents and they know us. We approve of their family. They approve of us.

B ) The second type are "casual" friends. These are friends that they see at school, at camp, at activities, at parties, etc. They could be a friend-of-a-friend. Our families have probably never met each other. The kids have probably been to our house once or twice at most.

And there are 2 types of kids racially.

1 ) The first type is what I call "strong race identifier". These kids have both parents of the same (non-white) race: black, hispanic, or asian. There's a definite racial identity at home. Maybe even a foreign language in the home. If they're black, the parents favor jazz over country music, favor basketball over tennis, etc. If they're Hispanic, they favor the Roman Catholic church over the Methodist church, etc.

2 ) The second type are what I call "mixed-race". These kids have parents of different races. There is no strong single racial or cultural identity in the home, and no pressure to conform to any. The kids talk and act and dress like mainstream (white) Americans and have random cultural tastes. I might also include in group "2" those families who are foreign nationals and highly-educated professionals seeking to embrace a new culture in America.

Here's how the average white middle-class homeowner family is going to react:

A1 (close friends with "strong race identifier" blacks, asians, or hispanics) - Rarely

A2 (close friends with "mixed-race" kids) - Often

B1 (casual friends with "strong race identifier" kids) - Sometimes

B2 (casual friends with "mixed-race" kids) - Very often

[rps324]

Assuming the income level and homeownership status and number of parents in the household are the same...

There are 2 types of friends that my kids have.

A ) The first are "close" friends, where the friends come stay at our house for extended periods of time: sleepovers, etc. We know the other parents and they know us. We approve of their family. They approve of us.

B ) The second type are "casual" friends. These are friends that they see at school, at camp, at activities, at parties, etc. They could be a friend-of-a-friend. Our families may have never met each other.

1 ) And there are 2 types of kids racially. The first type is what I call "full-blooded". These kids have both parents of the same race: black, hispanic, asian, etc. There's a definite racial identity at home. Maybe even a foreign language and/or cultural identity in the home. If they're black, they speak "black" or ebonics or whatever you want to call it. The kids may dress or act in ways that identify themselves culturally. For example, if it's a "full-blooded" black kid, you probably won't find him wearing a cardigan sweater on the tennis court. And if it's a "full-blooded" Hispanic family, you probably wouldn't see them at a Baptist church. If the parents are both black, they may encourage their kid to appreciate jazz, blues, and other African American music. If tha parents are both Hispanic, they may encourage their kid to appreciate salsa, tex-mex music, etc.

2 ) The second type are what I call "half-blooded". These kids have parents of different races. Usually 1 of the parents is white or Asian, but not always. There is no strong racial or cultural identity in the home, because the home is all about tolerance and blending. The kids talk and act and dress like mainstream (white) Americans. They join groups that don't follow the typical pattern expected for their race or culture.

Here's how the average white middle-class homeowner family is going to react:

A1 (close friends with "full-blooded" blacks, asians, or hispanics) - Rarely

A2 (close friends with "half-blooded" or mixed race kids) - Often

B1 (casual friends with "full-blooded" kids of other races) - Sometimes

B2 (casual friends with "half-blooded" or mixed race kids) - Very often

The only other situation is where the family are foreign nationals, from an upper-middle-class income bracket, and they're specifically coming to this country in a desire to embrace a new culture. For example, if the family came here from Greece, Brazil, Kuwait, etc. I would place these kids in the "B" group because they can't easily segregate themselves because there aren't enough of their own cultural group here.

How nice that you have everyone categorized so neatly, it must make it much easier for you to pigeonhole them appropriately.

[SpringTX]

Some people may not like to hear this message, because it's a sad message, but it's real, and I don't apologize for telling the truth, because TAK asked for the inside scoop. And because he has a real estate investment potentially riding on the answer. If I had made things sound rosy, it wouldn't have rung true.

As for me personally, I'm one of the most racially-tolerant white people on the planet, which is perhaps not surprisingly why I feel comfortable, even passionate, talking about this subject, whereas so many others do not. Not that it matters one bit, because it's the ideas I'm expressing - not what I personally feel or how I act.

This trend I described crosses all races. It affects blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Catholics, Jews, and Muslims alike. And you can see it in countries all around the world. My description shouldn't surprise anyone. Luckily, things get better in this country with every passing generation.

It boils down to what your goals are. If you want to be part of a community of national and international professionals (mostly white, but also Asian, Mexican nationals, European nationals, etc.), you may need to shed some cultural habits and preferences. Or not. I'm not going to start on a Bill Cosby style rant, but if that's what you want, that's how you would be best suited to approach it. And if you don't want to assimilate into a community like this, then this advice doesn't apply to you, of course. It's your life. If your culture and traditional family identity are more important than income, education, career, etc., then you already have your answer and you don't need anyone else telling you what they think is right.