why are people so worried about immigration?

[bachanon]

Who

Edited November 20, 2006 by bachanon

[gwilson]

I want to see these numbers showing two-thirds of illegals pay income taxs, SS and medicare.

Considering how much money they send OUT of the country, this is likely a load of crap.

You can also tell by her terms (nativist) and the organization she works for that the piece is biased.

Most people who speak on immigration now are not anti-immigration but rather anti-ILLEGAL immigration. HUGE difference.

[RedScare]

I want to see these numbers showing two-thirds of illegals pay income taxs, SS and medicare.

Considering how much money they send OUT of the country, this is likely a load of crap.

You can also tell by her terms (nativist) and the organization she works for that the piece is biased.

Most people who speak on immigration now are not anti-immigration but rather anti-ILLEGAL immigration. HUGE difference.

Here's one report on it.

http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/A-03-03-23038.pdf

If one considers that an employer who does not withhold taxes and SS/Medicare is himself liable for those payments, it is not hard to imagine that two-thirds of working illegals are paying these taxes, albeit, perhaps involuntarily. The point of the article is that arguments made that illegals are collecting benefits while not paying for them, tend to ignore that benefits are NOT payed, and further ignore that many illegals ARE paying taxes.

As for whether there is a net surplus or deficit, I have seen attempts to answer this question that show both.

[bachanon]

Immigration and the Welfare State

The real root of the problem

Brian Doherty

Given the poor quality of ideas on the legislative table, the best outcome of this year

[pineda]

I'm not worried about it.

I'm brushing up on my high school Espanol and just waiting for the annexation of Mexico!

I can see it now, Perry Townhomes on the shores of Isla de Mujeres.

Edited November 20, 2006 by pineda

[bachanon]

i adore mexican immigrants. some of these people are the most positive, hard working, principled people i know. they put many conservative republicans to shame.

in an alternative universe, i think that the US should offer state-hood to mexican regions bordering the US. if they determine they want to be a united states state, we will defend them and localities will extend plumbing, electricity, commerce to their region. it might spark a war with mexico, but hell, mexico's GDP would plummit if we didn't trade with them. the immigration issue would become moot. the US would grow geographically as well as its tax base. basically, we could begin to annex mexico.

[gwilson]

i adore mexican immigrants. some of these people are the most positive, hard working, principled people i know. they put many conservative republicans to shame.

in an alternative universe, i think that the US should offer state-hood to mexican regions bordering the US. if they determine they want to be a united states state, we will defend them and localities will extend plumbing, electricity, commerce to their region. it might spark a war with mexico, but hell, mexico's GDP would plummit if we didn't trade with them. the immigration issue would become moot. the US would grow geographically as well as its tax base. basically, we could begin to annex mexico.

I think your comment about republicans is unfounded but I will agree with your comment about mexicans, in general, being hard workers.

I have no issue with mexicans in general. In fact, I opt for contractors who use mexicans rather than whites because they work so much harder. They take pride in their work.

Where it goes south for me is this. Mexicans who work hard, but send all of their money out of the country. Also, not assimilating to society. It is annoying to no end when I have to talk to a tradesman who doesn't speak english. This causes tons of problems and mistakes.

I only ask that immigrants come in legally, contribute to the tax base (not by earnings taxes of their employers, but income taxes and direct SSI and medicare payments), and spend their money here rather than sending it home. In addition, learn the language so they can better function in this melting pot. I can't tell you how many times I, as a volunteer EMT, have had to try to help people who were severely injured but could not because they chose not to try to learn english.

The last reason for my wanting them to come in legally is so we can screen for violent criminals and pedophiles. If I had my way, we'd ship off all murderers, rapist and pedophiles as it is. Iraq is looking like a pretty good penal colony at present.

[RedScare]

I can't tell you how many times I, as a volunteer EMT, have had to try to help people who were severely injured but could not because they chose not to try to learn english.

How many people have you not been able to help because they were unconscious?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Would be interesting to see how many taxes are paid by illegals that are being paid in cash...............

[bachanon]

the article i posted states that the irs has 8 million non citizens paying taxes with alternative identification numbers. that's a big deal to me.

there is another commentary at reason magazine that describes how immigrant families become completely immersed in our culture by the third generation. the grandkids of immigrant families seldom speak spanish at all. they are assimilating at the same rate as italians/welsh/irish immigrants earlier in our history. the massive amount of immigrants makes it easy to assume many of the negative things that anti-immigration people perceive; however, much of their assumptions are unfounded.

Don

[Parrothead]

How many people have you not been able to help because they were unconscious?

The point he is trying to make is if you speak English, you have the highest chance of getting the very best care that he as an EMT can give.

I would guess that the odds sorta drop if you happen to pass out...or speak a different language.

[Guest danax]

i adore mexican immigrants. some of these people are the most positive, hard working, principled people i know. they put many conservative republicans to shame.

But being positive, hard working and principaled are not loopholes for breaking across the border, stealing someone's ID and ignoring another country's immigration laws. I doubt if only conservative republicans have this thought. And is this fair to those who went through the legal immigration process? Doesn't right, wrong and fair mean anything these days? I know some very nice people from India and China. They have lots of probably very nice relatives. Should we not invite them too? Rewarding illegals with amnesty is a cold slap to all those who played by the rules and invites more lawlessness.

And as for the first article reporting that the SSA has an "earnings suspense file"....hmm. So the governent knows that all of this money is from falsified IDs and they are doing nothing about it? The SSA is making big bucks with this funny money, the IRS gets tax revenue that they don't have to refund and the companies hiring these people are beating the law-abiding competion by undercutting their labor costs. Bottom line; the government is turning a blind eye to identity theft so that they and big business can get cheap labor. Who is for this?

And Bach, I know you live in the Woodlands, which I love, but if you lived where there were no deed restrictions, HOAs and saw The Woodlands rapidly start looking like Central America, with schools going downhill, houses turned into shantytown businesses, garages converted into multi-family dwellings, cars and junk on lawns...would still feel the same? You and your neighbors would be up in arms! I know this is fantasy but it is reality in other parts of Houston and the US. It's easy to say something is ok, as long as it's "over there". At least if we let Indians come over they would be doctors within a generation of too. That's not xenophobic or racist, that's just truth. By the way, I like the people too.

[bachanon]

But being positive, hard working and principaled are not loopholes for breaking across the border, stealing someone's ID and ignoring another country's immigration laws. I doubt if only conservative republicans have this thought. And is this fair to those who went through the legal immigration process? Doesn't right, wrong and fair mean anything these days? I know some very nice people from India and China. They have lots of probably very nice relatives. Should we not invite them too? Rewarding illegals with amnesty is a cold slap to all those who played by the rules and invites more lawlessness.

And as for the first article reporting that the SSA has an "earnings suspense file"....hmm. So the governent knows that all of this money is from falsified IDs and they are doing nothing about it? The SSA is making big bucks with this funny money, the IRS gets tax revenue that they don't have to refund and the companies hiring these people are beating the law-abiding competion by undercutting their labor costs. Bottom line; the government is turning a blind eye to identity theft so that they and big business can get cheap labor. Who is for this?

And Bach, I know you live in the Woodlands, which I love, but if you lived where there were no deed restrictions, HOAs and saw The Woodlands rapidly start looking like Central America, with schools going downhill, houses turned into shantytown businesses, garages converted into multi-family dwellings, cars and junk on lawns...would still feel the same? You and your neighbors would be up in arms! I know this is fantasy but it is reality in other parts of Houston and the US. It's easy to say something is ok, as long as it's "over there". At least if we let Indians come over they would be doctors within a generation of too. That's not xenophobic or racist, that's just truth. By the way, I like the people too.

the identity numbers the irs has issued are not falsified numbers.

and yes, something i didn't consider, is the fact that i do not live in neighborhoods as you've described. i do think that there is a positive side to the mass migration of mexicans. it is not being reported or investigated. i like to hear both sides of the story. when i begin to hear friends and family getting irate over the immigration issue and not have a bit of information outside of your typical media or gossip, i start reading alternative press. i really like "reason" magazine and its contributors. they tend to have a different kind of approach to major issues.

[Guest Marty]

My social security number was stolen by a illegal alien ten years ago, he got caught but it messed up my credit. but i got it straiten out now.

[Guest danax]

the identity numbers the irs has issued are not falsified numbers.

and yes, something i didn't consider, is the fact that i do not live in neighborhoods as you've described. i do think that there is a positive side to the mass migration of mexicans. it is not being reported or investigated. i like to hear both sides of the story. when i begin to hear friends and family getting irate over the immigration issue and not have a bit of information outside of your typical media or gossip, i start reading alternative press. i really like "reason" magazine and its contributors. they tend to have a different kind of approach to major issues.

Maybe not for the IRS issued numbers but for the stolen SS numbers and the taxes withheld from those false accounts, does that money get refunded to the thiefs or anyone? What a mess. And Big Brother can't/doesn't want to do anything about it.

You're right, there are many sides to this issue and many people who are polarized heavily to one of them, me included, since I'm immersed in my own neighborhood blight that I see on a too-frequent basis. I looked up some of the Reason author's other articles and the titles seem pretty unbiased.

[bachanon]

one of the issues being proposed by republicans requires additional burden on employers to verify residency. i do not think that the burden of proof should be on employers. this is not a conservative ideal in my opinion.

[gwilson]

one of the issues being proposed by republicans requires additional burden on employers to verify residency. i do not think that the burden of proof should be on employers. this is not a conservative ideal in my opinion.

It is already on the employer. When I get a job, I have to provide propper identification and SSI information. Most reputable employers even go so far as to do a criminal background or credit check.

[TJones]

one of the issues being proposed by republicans requires additional burden on employers to verify residency. i do not think that the burden of proof should be on employers. this is not a conservative ideal in my opinion.

Bach, if employers quit hiring illegal employees for fear of huge fines or being shut down all together, you cut the problem in half.

I also see the problem of "who will take these jobs ?" There are plenty of "unskilled" labor, sucking off the Govt. teet. I say institute a program where in order to recieve welfare you also have to work a certain amount of minimum wage hours and show proof with a checkstub of course, and you will get some Govt. help. How does that sound ?

[MidtownCoog]

Bach,

People are concered becuase folks like you and CNN confuse the issue.

Illegal immigartion and immigration are two different things.

[DJ V Lawrence]

How many people have you not been able to help because they were unconscious?

Damn. "Sir, wake up and tell me what's wrong..."

[Parrothead]

But being positive, hard working and principaled are not loopholes for breaking across the border, stealing someone's ID and ignoring another country's immigration laws. I doubt if only conservative republicans have this thought. And is this fair to those who went through the legal immigration process? Doesn't right, wrong and fair mean anything these days? I know some very nice people from India and China. They have lots of probably very nice relatives. Should we not invite them too? Rewarding illegals with amnesty is a cold slap to all those who played by the rules and invites more lawlessness.

And as for the first article reporting that the SSA has an "earnings suspense file"....hmm. So the governent knows that all of this money is from falsified IDs and they are doing nothing about it? The SSA is making big bucks with this funny money, the IRS gets tax revenue that they don't have to refund and the companies hiring these people are beating the law-abiding competion by undercutting their labor costs. Bottom line; the government is turning a blind eye to identity theft so that they and big business can get cheap labor. Who is for this?

And Bach, I know you live in the Woodlands, which I love, but if you lived where there were no deed restrictions, HOAs and saw The Woodlands rapidly start looking like Central America, with schools going downhill, houses turned into shantytown businesses, garages converted into multi-family dwellings, cars and junk on lawns...would still feel the same? You and your neighbors would be up in arms! I know this is fantasy but it is reality in other parts of Houston and the US. It's easy to say something is ok, as long as it's "over there". At least if we let Indians come over they would be doctors within a generation of too. That's not xenophobic or racist, that's just truth. By the way, I like the people too.

Well said danax.

My hubby works in the Medical Center and it is a great melting pot of Chinese and Indian folks, all who came here quite legally. They worked their butts off to get here and yep, some of them have to go back (and actually WILL! *gasp*) when their visas are done, and they will have to start the process over. They have such a different view of the U.S., it's amazing to listen to what they go through just for the opportunity to come here and never question the hoops required to get here. They get quite defensive when conversation in the lab turns to illegal immigration.

[GREASER]

so its legal to work without ss number and just the alternative number?