Ktex Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 When the Westpark was built, it was to be the be all and end all for Katy Commuters however most of us knew it was going to be too small.It seems to be progressively getting worse, taking as much as an hour to get downtown. Heck, if it's going to be an hour communte, we all may as well stay on I-10 into town. It just irks me to be paying top toll dollars to SIT still on the Westpark. Me thinks they made some mistakes with this road. What are your thoughts...could they have done anything differently to have avoided these congestion problems?Just throwing something out there for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfootball Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 When the Westpark was built, it was to be the be all and end all for Katy Commuters however most of us knew it was going to be too small.It seems to be progressively getting worse, taking as much as an hour to get downtown. Heck, if it's going to be an hour communte, we all may as well stay on I-10 into town. It just irks me to be paying top toll dollars to SIT still on the Westpark. Me thinks they made some mistakes with this road. What are your thoughts...could they have done anything differently to have avoided these congestion problems?Just throwing something out there for discussion.Sounds like they need to raise the price during rush hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktex Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 (edited) The cost as it sits now from the Grand Parkway on to the end of the Westpark is $4.60 each way, $9.20 daily. Of the $4.60, $3.60 goes to the Harris County Toll Road Authority with the remainder going to the Fort Bend Toll Road Authority.I think one section that was not given much thought and is the cause for most of the congestion on the Westpark is the Beltway Exit. Commuters are lined up there for miles trying to exit onto the Beltway. Then there is the 59 exit which also forces a back up but not near as bad at the Beltway exit. Edited November 5, 2006 by Ktex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 When the Westpark was built, it was to be the be all and end all for Katy Commuters however most of us knew it was going to be too small.It seems to be progressively getting worse, taking as much as an hour to get downtown. Heck, if it's going to be an hour communte, we all may as well stay on I-10 into town. It just irks me to be paying top toll dollars to SIT still on the Westpark. Me thinks they made some mistakes with this road. What are your thoughts...could they have done anything differently to have avoided these congestion problems?Just throwing something out there for discussion.The Westpark was built to meet the capacity required of it AFTER Interstate 10 is reconstructed. At that point, a lot of people who currently avoid the Katy Freeway will return to using it, and traffic on Westpark won't be as bad. The Westpark will be like any freeway/tollway, obsolete within about 10-15 years of 'normal' use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The Westpark was built to meet the capacity required of it AFTER Interstate 10 is reconstructed. At that point, a lot of people who currently avoid the Katy Freeway will return to using it, and traffic on Westpark won't be as bad. The Westpark will be like any freeway/tollway, obsolete within about 10-15 years of 'normal' use.I agree with your first statement, but not the second. I think we'll need to wait a full year after the Katy freeway project is completed to see the benefits of the Westpark Tollway. I don't think however, that it will become obsolete in 10-15 years. I think raising the toll will keep the traffic volume at an acceptable level.Like anything else in life, you have to pay extra for premium service. Why should it not be the same for local travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I agree with your first statement, but not the second. I think we'll need to wait a full year after the Katy freeway project is completed to see the benefits of the Westpark Tollway. I don't think however, that it will become obsolete in 10-15 years. I think raising the toll will keep the traffic volume at an acceptable level.Like anything else in life, you have to pay extra for premium service. Why should it not be the same for local travel?In theory, I'd agree. But in practice, I'd think that it may not be politically viable to raise the price too high, or else we'll start seeing class-based arguments against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) In theory, I'd agree. But in practice, I'd think that it may not be politically viable to raise the price too high, or else we'll start seeing class-based arguments against it.You could make class based arguments against it now for only allowing those who can afford an EZ-tag access. Raise the tolls as traffic increases. It is a toll road for crying out loud. Edited November 6, 2006 by Jeebus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 well one of the problems is that it does not go all the way to katy ... does it? i thought it ended somewhere around the west side of the beltway, or shortly thereafter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProHouston Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 well one of the problems is that it does not go all the way to katy ... does it? i thought it ended somewhere around the west side of the beltway, or shortly thereafter?Nope, it goes all the way to the Grand Parkway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 okay, didn't know that. last time i rode it, it stopped a couple of miles in nowhere'sville ... a little shy of hwy 6 i think...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 You could make class based arguments against it now for only allowing those who can afford an EZ-tag access.please explain. I don't see the tollway as a necessity. if it was, then i could understand your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 one reason i rarely ride tollroads! i work every day and really cannot afford to ride on them.or let me be more specific. i choose not to pay for something i basically get for free.i don't find tolls all that much quicker or better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Agree with Niche 100% on the Katy Freeway construction issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 People are choosing to wait an hour in traffic because of Katy Freeway construction? Riiiight... The Westpark Tollway was great until they opened it to FM 1464. It was immediately overwhelmed by obnoxious Katy commuters. I really doubt they will ever go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelvetJ Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 People are choosing to wait an hour in traffic because of Katy Freeway construction? Riiiight...The Westpark Tollway was great until they opened it to FM 1464. It was immediately overwhelmed by obnoxious Katy commuters. I really doubt they will ever go away. I agree with this as well. I think the Katy Freeway's construction affecting the Westpark Toll traffic jams is being overstated a bit. I also believe it probably is a factor but is not the only and certainly not the biggest factor in why it has become congested so quickly. There are people sitting on the Southwest Freeway, only to exit onto the Westpark Tollway and sit in traffic just as bad, but they are paying to do so. I have made this prediction before, but just as it didn't take long for the Westpark Tollway to be congested, I'm betting the same is going to happen on the Katy Freeway. And it all seems to be happening within 2 years from the completion period. Whatever happened to the concept of getting more people out of their cars? I don't think the Westpark Tollway is really doing that at this point because practically everday there are people in cars sitting on it literally idleing there gas and money away. Gessner at Westpark is a perfect place to observe this. I'm not saying the Tollway is neccesarily a bad thing but I personally do not buy the concept of the only reason the Westpark Tollway is congested is due to the construction on the Katy Freeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brak Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I live right at Grand Parkway and 1093.....been there over two years.....I was taking the Tollway from the day it was opened to Mason. It has definitely gotten progressively crowded since then. It was great over the summer but as soon as schooled started, it was a parking lot. I bet a lot of new people moved into the area over the summer excited about using the Tollway.......I bet a lot are disappointed.......I now take 99 to 90 to 59 (N) and it takes me the same time to get to work.....and it is 7 miles farther!!It seems the feed lanes to the Tollway should be regulated (stop/go light) to help keep the flow moving....Plus, I was seeing at least 5 cars a day that did not have the EZ tag (light flashed when they passed under).When gas was $3 plus a gallon, I could justify it.....but not anymore..........Note: If I leave at 5:00 PM from Chimney Rock, it takes 10 minutes longer to use freeways and not the Tollway...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The cost as it sits now from the Grand Parkway on to the end of the Westpark is $4.60 each way, $9.20 daily. Of the $4.60, $3.60 goes to the Harris County Toll Road Authority with the remainder going to the Fort Bend Toll Road Authority. To hell with that, that $9.20 a day X 5 can cover my groceries for the week. That gets expensive for waiting in traffic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaJustin Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The cost as it sits now from the Grand Parkway on to the end of the Westpark is $4.60 each way, $9.20 daily. Of the $4.60, $3.60 goes to the Harris County Toll Road Authority with the remainder going to the Fort Bend Toll Road Authority. Where did you get $4.60? I don't take Westpark everyday, but I do so several times a month and didn't think it was costing that much. Well, I pulled the map from HCTRA as of 9/1/2006 (Westpark Schedule of Tolls) that shows where the toll booths are and the cost. From Grand Parkway, the first toll is just before you reach Mason Road (Cost = $.50). Next toll is before FM 1464 (Cost = $.50). The third toll is before Sam Houston Tollway (Cost = $1.00). The fourth toll is just after Fondren (Cost = $1.00). The final toll would be either the exit for Post Oak (Cost = $.25) or Westpark Dr (Cost = $.25). So, if you were to go from Grand Parkway directly to the end of Westpark it would actually be $3.25 each way ($6.50 round trip). I'm not saying this makes it cheap, but your calculations are $54 a month higher ($9.20 - $6.50 = $2.70 {$2.70 X 5 days = $13.50} $13.50 X 4 weeks = $54.00) than what they really are. It's still $32.50 a week to sit in traffic. People are choosing to wait an hour in traffic because of Katy Freeway construction? Riiiight...The Westpark Tollway was great until they opened it to FM 1464. It was immediately overwhelmed by obnoxious Katy commuters. I really doubt they will ever go away. You're right, we (the "obnoxious" Katy commuters) will never go away. We are about as likely to leave as the resource sucking cockroaches that live in or near areas like West Oaks. Just hop on the bus, we could use the extra space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnet Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I've lived near 1093 and the Grand Parkway for a little over a year and use a combination of the Westpark and I-10 HOV lane to commute to the Galleria area. I really do think the I-10 construction is causing more traffic on the Westpark. I havn't done it, but my wife knows people living near us that have taken I-10 mainlanes all the way to 610 to their Galleria office and you are talking a 1:15 - 1:30 commute at peak times since school started. I can still get on the Westpark at peak times and make it to the Galleria via the post oak exit in 45 - 55 minutes (if you have to exit 59 to go to downtown that does back up badly). If I enter the Westpark from 99 on the direct connecter by 6:30am, it is about 35 minutes to my desk. A friend said he heard they may use the automatically changing "demand pricing" which changes during peak hours on the Westpark soon - anyone else hear this rumor? The fact that they will have toll lanes down the middle of I-10 (with variable demand pricing) leads me to believe it will help "balance out" the Westpark in a year or so IMO. You would be shocked how much traffic heads south on the Grand Parkway to the Westpark in the A.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I have seen that traffic before. You can see it from my school's parking lot. Also, demand changes is a must. That is a real good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I have seen that traffic before. You can see it from my school's parking lot. Also, demand changes is a must. That is a real good idea.Light Rail would have been a better solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 People are choosing to wait an hour in traffic because of Katy Freeway construction? Riiiight...The Westpark Tollway was great until they opened it to FM 1464. It was immediately overwhelmed by obnoxious Katy commuters. I really doubt they will ever go away. An hour? Hmmm. I've taken the Westpark Tollroad from Beltway 8 at 8:30AM several times, and never thought it was bad at all--took about 12 minutes to get to 610. A little hairy at the 59 split, but not horrible. What time are we talking about here that it would take an hour? If I lived in Cinco Ranch or that area and had a choice until I-10 was finished, I'd have to choose the Tollway. I drive every day on I-10 to and from the Addicks Park-n-Ride and it sucks pretty hard at 7:30-8AM. Sometimes I just sit there in park. It's nuts. Why are Katy commuters any different from the rest that they should be deemed "obnoxious"? Sounds like sour grapes to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Yeah, a commuter line out this way (The Westpark Line??) would have been better, but what can you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danax Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I'm pessimistic/realistic, having lived in Los Angeles, that traffic in that corridor will never be easy, be it by toll road, freeway or commuter rail. Commuter rail might end up being the quickest, but the car travel will still be the preferred poison and so the effect of rail on roadways will be almost unnoticable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTrain Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 WPTW will stay congested until the Katy SuperTollFreeWay gets done. That way, WPTW will be back to normal like it used to be the first few months. At least that tollway was an emergency reliever for the Katy Freeway overhaul/rebuild. Y'all be trippin about WPTW's traffic getting worse even after the Katy gets finished ten years down the line. What do you suppose we have Hardy Toll Road for? To keep the North Freeway from chocking to death, that's what. For each traffic choker we have, there is always a smooth ride on the other. Get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 People are choosing to wait an hour in traffic because of Katy Freeway construction? Riiiight...The Westpark Tollway was great until they opened it to FM 1464. It was immediately overwhelmed by obnoxious Katy commuters. I really doubt they will ever go away. Your kidding right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Okay -- How about, when the Katy FWY is up to speed, making the Westpark Tollway a dedicated BRT corridor with maybe two park and ride lots and two or three stops between Grand Parkway and 610. The bus/trains could go onto the surface street, down Westpark to Kirby and stop there, then go up to Greenway Plaza, make a couple of Greenway stops, then over Edloe, back to Westpark and back up onto the elevated track that used to be the tollway.That'd be a pretty cool commuter line serving a big part of West Houston without spending much more money. It also makes pretty decent use of those silly BRT busses they have planned, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Okay -- How about, when the Katy FWY is up to speed, making the Westpark Tollway a dedicated BRT corridor with maybe two park and ride lots and two or three stops between Grand Parkway and 610. The bus/trains could go onto the surface street, down Westpark to Kirby and stop there, then go up to Greenway Plaza, make a couple of Greenway stops, then over Edloe, back to Westpark and back up onto the elevated track that used to be the tollway.That'd be a pretty cool commuter line serving a big part of West Houston without spending much more money. It also makes pretty decent use of those silly BRT busses they have planned, no?METRO definitely needs to incorporate the toll road, bus routes, and P&R lots into and around the Westpark Toll Road facility. But it IS a toll road, and the point is to reduce congestion to the social optimal. So (assuming the completion of the Katy doesn't put an end to the madness) the tolls need to go up. Edited December 6, 2006 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Your kidding right?No. I know the difference of before and after. If you are implying anything here, you haven't followed this as closely as I have.I used to take WT until August 04 or 05 until the congestion suddenly exploded. That was the same week they opened the new ramps. Edited December 6, 2006 by westguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) To hell with that, that $9.20 a day X 5 can cover my groceries for the week.That gets expensive for waiting in traffic! Light Rail would have been a better solution. one reason i rarely ride tollroads! i work every day and really cannot afford to ride on them.or let me be more specific. i choose not to pay for something i basically get for free. i don't find tolls all that much quicker or better. agreed - and sheesh, whether it's 9.20 or 6.50 or 3 bucks a day - this is all in addition for having to pay for massive amounts of gas, and having to commute/sit in traffic...ack and rail? that would mean people would have to ride public transport...eek! Edited December 6, 2006 by sevfiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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