Houston's Rotten Drivers

[houstonmacbro]

but not just the freeway ... the feeder too.

often they are travelling just as fast as the freeway traffic.

[Houston19514]

Is it just me? Or does this seem like the opposite of reality. I am driving all the time here, have been for 20 years, and traffic seems to be a nice average of between 60 and 80 miles per hour on the freeways. Looking at the sheer number of cars on a 14 lane freeway...that's a pretty good pace considering the constant exits, merging, turns, ramps, tailgaters, large 18-wheelers, and busses all around. Now granted, cronically congested areas...which are plentyfold...will get slow. Did you expect 70mph on Westheimer on a Saturday? Did you expect that during rush hour? Rush hour means parking lots which mean everybody crawls. And sure, for every 100 drivers going 70 or 80mph, there is the ocasional granny that should not have been there to begin with, going 50. But I am constantly being tailgated at 70mph if not downright passed by cars going 90. And Saturday nights...well - Sunday mornings really - at 2:30am...are downright dangerous...I have seen enough people flying at +100mph, enough overturned and totaled vehicles, and enough dead bodies on the freeways in the last 20 years to understand that there is definetly a speeding issue in this city, every Friday and Saturday night.

Your example of "everyone" going 20 mph on a freeway with 10 car lengths between each car....well, that's not even believable, and the use of such a questionable example - to me at least - smells more of either gross exageration, or more likely: someone with another agenda, i.e., that attitude we have all experienced of someone who coming here allready had a stereotype embeded in thier mind that Houston, or Texas, is "slow", and just looking for any example to prove thier case, even if it was not the norm, all the while ignoring the reality all around. The truth is that "slow" is everywhere...I saw it in NYC, in Mexico City, in Dallas, in SA, in Seattle, and in San Francisco. There were slow lines, slow drivers on bridges, slow cabies, slow embracing of new ideas, slow this, slow that. I saw closed-mindedness in those cities. And I sometimes see closed-mindeness here too. But there was also everything else in those cities that made them great cities. Things that made each city seem ahead of the others, even in Dallas.

Why Houston seems to attract constant negativity has remained a mystery to me, especially when you look at the other cities, and see that they too suffer from the same "issues". The only explanation I see is that the stereotype and false generalization machine is alive and well, I guess.

Here, here!! Excellent post, 2112!

[MiDTOWNeR]

I am not basing this on any studies just personal perception... It has not been my experience that people in Houston drive "slow", but that when on the freeway the range of speeds is quite drastic. People do seem a bit stubborn to me in that when there are clearly folks who want to drive faster in the fast lane, someone refuses to change lanes to allow those people by. Sometimes I wonder if 5 lanes is almost too many lanes. Like it gives people to many options to travel at the speed they want, therefore making the whole situation more of a mess

I just got back from visiting the cousins in East Texas. It is unforunate that more people do not observe the left lane as the passing lane. I was on the 59 and the 45 and often, I was passing in the right lane. I have noticed when driving in the South Eastern US ...Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama that many more people hold to the lef tlane is for passing rule. That is also where I learned the flashing your lights to let big trucks over and to warn oncomming traffic of the police ahead.

Edited November 5, 2006 by MiDTOWNeR

[houstonfella]

I took a trip to see a friend who lives north of Tomball. I drove 75-80 on the Beltway and on 249 until the end. There were people passing me.

[Perimeter285]

I find it odd that people keep accusing me of generalizing and being totally oblivious to the fact that traffic actually moves at the speed of light but that I'm just ignoring reality.

Let me remind you of two things: 1. I like Houston and want it to thrive. 2. I've lived here for four years, and I'm describing what I see on a daily basis.

How is this generalizing? How is this negative stereotyping?

Yes, maybe 10 car lengths is an exaggeration, but not by much. I run into situations constantly where traffic is not nearly heavy enough to justify the low speeds.

I'm not some out-of-towner that wants to put down Houston. I live here, so I want it to be a great place to live. Spending half my life stuck behind someone that has nowhere in particular to be is not my idea of fun.

By the way, I don't drive 90 MPH. Closer to the speed limit, maybe 5 MPH over. But even at that speed, and even when traffic is not heavy, I find myself weaving and passing people like they're parked. You can't tell me that these people are driving intelligently.

[musicman]

I have noticed when driving in the South Eastern US ...Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama that many more people hold to the lef tlane is for passing rule. That is also where I learned the flashing your lights to let big trucks over and to warn oncomming traffic of the police ahead.

the flashing light comment goes on here too and has since i remember riding in a car in the 60's. I know i flash my lights on the police heavy section of monroe to warn drivers of a police presence.

May i ask what year you obtained a drivers license?

[2112]

I find it odd that people keep accusing me of generalizing and being totally oblivious to the fact that traffic actually moves at the speed of light but that I'm just ignoring reality.

Let me remind you of two things: 1. I like Houston and want it to thrive. 2. I've lived here for four years, and I'm describing what I see on a daily basis.

How is this generalizing? How is this negative stereotyping?

Yes, maybe 10 car lengths is an exaggeration, but not by much. I run into situations constantly where traffic is not nearly heavy enough to justify the low speeds.

I'm not some out-of-towner that wants to put down Houston. I live here, so I want it to be a great place to live. Spending half my life stuck behind someone that has nowhere in particular to be is not my idea of fun.

By the way, I don't drive 90 MPH. Closer to the speed limit, maybe 5 MPH over. But even at that speed, and even when traffic is not heavy, I find myself weaving and passing people like they're parked. You can't tell me that these people are driving intelligently.

Maybe my nose is a bit to hypersensitive: I was just smelling between the lines.

[Houston19514]

I find it odd that people keep accusing me of generalizing and being totally oblivious to the fact that traffic actually moves at the speed of light but that I'm just ignoring reality.

Let me remind you of two things: 1. I like Houston and want it to thrive. 2. I've lived here for four years, and I'm describing what I see on a daily basis.

How is this generalizing? How is this negative stereotyping?

Yes, maybe 10 car lengths is an exaggeration, but not by much. I run into situations constantly where traffic is not nearly heavy enough to justify the low speeds.

I'm not some out-of-towner that wants to put down Houston. I live here, so I want it to be a great place to live. Spending half my life stuck behind someone that has nowhere in particular to be is not my idea of fun.

By the way, I don't drive 90 MPH. Closer to the speed limit, maybe 5 MPH over. But even at that speed, and even when traffic is not heavy, I find myself weaving and passing people like they're parked. You can't tell me that these people are driving intelligently.

... and was your statement that "everyone" drives 20 MPH on the freeways perhaps a wee bit of an exaggeration as well???

As is the case with many topics in this age of internet access to information, we are actually able to apply a bit of objective information to this topi. Transtar shows the current average speed of traffic on each of Houston's freeways. I just looked at it and everyone one of them is posted at 50+ MPH AVERAGE (and that's the highest they show, so if the average is actually 60 or 70 or 80 MPH, it would still only show 50+), with one exception showing <20 MPH on a section of inbound Gulf Fwy, outside the Beltway; I would presume there was an accident or construction slowing that traffic down right now.

Even more interestingly, if one clicks on a segment of roadway, and then click on "Live Speed Chart" one can see the actual speeds of traffic for both today and the average for the year 2005 for each segment of the day. I've clicked around on a few and it's very interesting. Most have average traffic speeds close to 70 MPH, a far sight from 20 MPH.

Which begs the question, what freeway are you talking about, Perimeter?

Edited November 5, 2006 by Houston19514

[MiDTOWNeR]

the flashing light comment goes on here too and has since i remember riding in a car in the 60's. I know i flash my lights on the police heavy section of monroe to warn drivers of a police presence.

May i ask what year you obtained a drivers license?

I never said the flashing light deal does not go on here. It is not as widespread & common as driving in the Southeast.

You may ask, but why?

I find it odd that people keep accusing me of generalizing and being totally oblivious to the fact that traffic actually moves at the speed of light but that I'm just ignoring reality.

Let me remind you of two things: 1. I like Houston and want it to thrive. 2. I've lived here for four years, and I'm describing what I see on a daily basis.

How is this generalizing? How is this negative stereotyping?

Yes, maybe 10 car lengths is an exaggeration, but not by much. I run into situations constantly where traffic is not nearly heavy enough to justify the low speeds.

I'm not some out-of-towner that wants to put down Houston. I live here, so I want it to be a great place to live. Spending half my life stuck behind someone that has nowhere in particular to be is not my idea of fun.

By the way, I don't drive 90 MPH. Closer to the speed limit, maybe 5 MPH over. But even at that speed, and even when traffic is not heavy, I find myself weaving and passing people like they're parked. You can't tell me that these people are driving intelligently.

It is easier for ofllks to say you are 'generalizing" than to have to accept that what you point out may in fact be true. Many understand that when you say 20mph you are exagerating to make a point. But again, it is easier for some to pick on that as if you are REALLY trying to say that people drive 20mph on the freeway. Some probably have little experience elsewhere and are a bit offended that you suggest such a thing.

I dont understand why people have to make everything so personal on here. But again it goes back to the culture of defense that I suspect some have deeply rooted in the them from defending Houston for a lifetime

By the way, I don't drive 90 MPH. Closer to the speed limit, maybe 5 MPH over. But even at that speed, and even when traffic is not heavy, I find myself weaving and passing people like they're parked. You can't tell me that these people are driving intelligently.

I have noticed this as well. I often get the feeling that many people simply do not know where they are going. As if they are unfamiliar with the Houston freeway system. Oh but wait, let me go to unfamiliarwiththehoustonfreewaysystem.com so that I can pull live data of the current number of people driving around lost. Cause i am SURE it will be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY less than any amount ever possibly suggested.

Edited November 5, 2006 by MiDTOWNeR

[2112]

I never said the flashing light deal does not go on here. It is not as widespread & common as driving in the Southeast.

You may ask, but why?

It is easier for ofllks to say you are 'generalizing" than to have to accept that what you point out may in fact be true. Many understand that when you say 20mph you are exagerating to make a point. But again, it is easier for some to pick on that as if you are REALLY trying to say that people drive 20mph on the freeway. Some probably have little experience elsewhere and are a bit offended that you suggest such a thing.

I dont understand why people have to make everything so personal on here. But again it goes back to the culture of defense that I suspect some have deeply rooted in the them from defending Houston for a lifetime

I have noticed this as well. I often get the feeling that many people simply do not know where they are going. As if they are unfamiliar with the Houston freeway system. Oh but wait, let me go to unfamiliarwiththehoustonfreewaysystem.com so that I can pull live data of the current number of people driving around lost. Cause i am SURE it will be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY less than any amount ever possibly suggested.

I guess I just don

[musicman]

I never said the flashing light deal does not go on here. It is not as widespread & common as driving in the Southeast.

It is common here IMO. i see it (flashing for police ahead) several times weekly at least. Many now see flashing for passing as a bad trait, esp if you're behind a gang member, etc. you never know who'll pull out a gun.

it is more popular is areas with smaller populations

But even at that speed, and even when traffic is not heavy, I find myself weaving and passing people like they're parked. You can't tell me that these people are driving intelligently.

Most DPS officers would say that weaving and passing people like they are parked is not driving intelligently either.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Hey, I wouldn't HAVE to drive 90 mph in the right lanes if you 70-mph morons would stay out of the fast lane!

LEFT LANE IS FOR PASSING ONLY!!!

(tongue only partially in cheek)

[Jeebus]

It is common here IMO. i see it (flashing for police ahead) several times weekly at least. Many now see flashing for passing as a bad trait, esp if you're behind a gang member, etc. you never know who'll pull out a gun.

Oh God, here come more lame urban legends...

LEFT LANE IS FOR PASSING ONLY!!!

(and for left turns & exits...)

[musicman]

Oh God, here come more lame urban legends...

get behind me on the freeway and flash your lights, you'll be an urban legend too. This past yr i've had friends murdered, killed by flesh eating bacteria, hit by a metro bus and one executed. You might think i'm making that up but i don't take ANYthing for granted now.

Edited November 5, 2006 by musicman

[MiDTOWNeR]

And further, the concept of a "fast lane"doesnt work in a freeway-intessive city like ours: There are off ramps on the left, on the right, and in the middle: If I have take a left lane exit ramp...I am going to slow down, and everyone else is also, which means that the so-called "fast lane" will have slow moving vehicles.

The fast lane could work, and should work, but oh look who is driving in it. Someone who thinks it doesn't

It is common here IMO.

Wouldn't want to seem as though Houston wasn't IN on this courtesy.

Edited November 5, 2006 by MiDTOWNeR

[MiDTOWNeR]

And thirdly, addressing being defensive: Houston has always suffered from bad press. So yes, if people constantly say that your mama is ugly, then defensiveness should be in the response repertoire. Don

[musicman]

Wouldn't want to seem as though Houston wasn't IN on this courtesy.

I think most drivers are in on this courtesy.

[musicman]

EXACTLY. So it makes it all the more difficult to genuinely see what others are trying to point out. That they are not making blanket generalizations...at time perhaps...But these observations are not always meant as a jab at Houston.

taking a jab at houston is acceptable, i don't think anyone has a problem if there is a factual basis. These are your opinions.

but making statements such as.....

It just kills me to drive along a freeway where everyone is going 20 MPH and there's about 10 car lengths between each car. Seriously, you have to TRY to drive that slowly, and I see it all over the city, all of the time. I think it's pretty sad when I pass people like they're standing still when I'm going the SPEED LIMIT. Am I the only person that has anywhere to be?

I've surely never seen anyone in comparably sized cities (Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) drive like that.

.....are difficult to even respond to because they are generalizations.

Then of course inserting the last sentence doesn't add anything to your generalization except to point out that you have "never seen ANYONE in comparably sized cities drive like that" . this is an explicit jab vs your implicit jabs.

So you're telling me you also drive 20 and have 10 car lengths between you? if not, then i'd say you're making generalizations.

Edited November 5, 2006 by musicman

[JasonDFW]

I'm from Dallas and in my experience Houston is the second fastest city I've ever driven in behind LA. I notice Dallas drivers are considerably faster than Fort Worth... and Houston is almost that much faster than Dallas. I *NEVER* get pushed down the road in the left lane in Dallas but occasionally it happens in Houston (while I'm passing people myself) and it catches me totally off guard. I mostly drive in Houston on the weekends though.

Jason

[MiDTOWNeR]

taking a jab at houston is acceptable, i don't think anyone has a problem if there is a factual basis. These are your opinions.

but making statements such as.....

It just kills me to drive along a freeway where everyone is going 20 MPH and there's about 10 car lengths between each car. Seriously, you have to TRY to drive that slowly, and I see it all over the city, all of the time. I think it's pretty sad when I pass people like they're standing still when I'm going the SPEED LIMIT. Am I the only person that has anywhere to be?

I've surely never seen anyone in comparably sized cities (Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) drive like that.

.....are difficult to even respond to because they are generalizations.

Then of course inserting the last sentence doesn't add anything to your generalization except to point out that you have "never seen ANYONE in comparably sized cities drive like that" . this is an explicit jab vs your implicit jabs.

So you're telling me you also drive 20 and have 10 car lengths between you? if not, then i'd say you're making generalizations.

I am not the one who said anything about driving 20 mph. That was not my post

But in regards to the 20mph post. My understanding of that post was that it was a bit of an exageration, to make that point that they think lots of folks drive slow. But if you all want to take that that person said you are sinning against the lord and savior cause you all drive 20mph...that is yo bidnez.

I think most drivers are in on this courtesy.

please define "most drivers"

taking a jab at houston is acceptable, i don't think anyone has a problem if there is a factual basis. These are your opinions.

But if you are already inclined to be on the defensive, how does one determine what is factual?

but making statements such as.....

It just kills me to drive along a freeway where everyone is going 20 MPH and there's about 10 car lengths between each car. Seriously, you have to TRY to drive that slowly, and I see it all over the city, all of the time. I think it's pretty sad when I pass people like they're standing still when I'm going the SPEED LIMIT. Am I the only person that has anywhere to be?

I've surely never seen anyone in comparably sized cities (Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) drive like that.

.....are difficult to even respond to because they are generalizations.

Then of course inserting the last sentence doesn't add anything to your generalization except to point out that you have "never seen ANYONE in comparably sized cities drive like that" . this is an explicit jab vs your implicit jabs.

So you're telling me you also drive 20 and have 10 car lengths between you? if not, then i'd say you're making generalizations.

and just to be clear...this was not my post.

Edited November 5, 2006 by MiDTOWNeR

[musicman]

I am not the one who said anything about driving 20 mph. That was not my post

Yes it wasn't but you've attempted to defend it with statements such as "When it comes to drastic speed differences amongst vehicles in a particular given stretch of freeway, I totally see what your saying. It is often the pick-up old or BRAND spankin' new and bigger than my house filled with pax of a particular ethnicity going waaaaay under the speed limit. " or "Things happen quick on the freeway, and unfortunately the culture here does not allow people to learn these little things " and "It is easier for folks to say you ( perimeter)are 'generalizing" than to have to accept that what you point out may in fact be true.

ethnicity? particular culture? hmmmm you a landscaper by chance?

I will point out that later in the thread you said you are not an expert. so i'll apologize.

please define "most drivers"

more than 50%

But if you are already inclined to be on the defensive, how does one determine what is factual?

I can't be defensive with non factual statements. in this instance, it should be clear what is factual and what isn't. him saying everyone goes 20 on the freeway isn't factual as i and others have confirmed.

[Double L]

I love this thread. This thread is so true.

You should see San Antonio drivers, they're willing to get into a car crash.

[2112]

I am not basing this on any studies just personal perception... It has not been my experience that people in Houston drive "slow", but that when on the freeway the range of speeds is quite drastic. People do seem a bit stubborn to me in that when there are clearly folks who want to drive faster in the fast lane, someone refuses to change lanes to allow those people by. Sometimes I wonder if 5 lanes is almost too many lanes. Like it gives people to many options to travel at the speed they want, therefore making the whole situation more of a mess

I just got back from visiting the cousins in East Texas. It is unforunate that more people do not observe the left lane as the passing lane. I was on the 59 and the 45 and often, I was passing in the right lane. I have noticed when driving in the South Eastern US ...Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama that many more people hold to the lef tlane is for passing rule. That is also where I learned the flashing your lights to let big trucks over and to warn oncomming traffic of the police ahead.

Three comments on this: First, I can see you are not jumping on the bandwagon that traffic is slow here, I understand that, and I dont acuse you of agreeing with Mr. Perimeter on that point. What you are mainly saying is that the left lane is not given its due right as the "fast lane". (The whole defensiness argument is a tangent, so I will not retort on this ocasion.)

Secondly is something I have allready said. Unlike your examples of 45 and 59 and East Texas, Houston can't function the way you say it should...again, there are off ramps, on ramps, merging of lanes, etc. all over the place: on the right, on the LEFT. When you start getting out of the city, then by all means, the left lane can now have its due respect as the "fast lane."

Thirdly, I do agree that there is a stubborness here, just as you say. I am going 75mph, and there he is...the jerk going 55 right in front of me. HOWEVER, that is only part of the picture: If you notice closely...which I did this afternoon on the gulf freewy (twice), you will notice that the average speed of MOST vehicles is between 65 and 70. I confirmed this precisely because of this thread...I slowed down until I noticed I was going with the flow of what looked like at least 75% of the other vehicles.....and that speed was about 67MPH. When I slowed down to about 60.....EVERYBODY with few exception was passsing me. I ran this experiement twice today. Both times the outcomes of the experiement was about the same: about 67MPH......67MPH is pretty damn close to 70....and that is pretty damn far from 20MPH. I dont call that slow. In fact, considering the wet pavement and the tons of cars out today....that was pretty fast. And all along there was the other type of stubborness that I always encountered....the guy going 90MPH that was tailgating me or flying past me. You see the guy going 85 or 90 as often as you see someone going less than 60. And really, when you think about it, if the average speed is close to 70, there is no way that can exist if there are a bunch of people going 20MPH or even 60MPH.

Edited November 6, 2006 by 2112

[2112]

I took a trip to see a friend who lives north of Tomball. I drove 75-80 on the Beltway and on 249 until the end. There were people passing me.

Hmmm. Sounds like I'm not the only one who notices that things arent quite at the snail's pace that SOME people try to convince us of.

[MiDTOWNeR]

Three comments on this: First, I can see you are not jumping on the bandwagon that traffic is slow here, I understand that, and I dont acuse you of agreeing with Mr. Perimeter on that point.

And if I did would you have me taken out? Good grief, so someone said people in Houston drive slow. What is the big frickin' deal?! It is not like they are saying that "life" is slow in these parts. And if it is...again...what is the big frickin' deal? Usually the dogooders would have gone on about how great they are for obeying the speed limit or even driving under it for safety-sake. But not here. He said i drive slow!!! HANG HIM!!!!!!

So, you have a left lane entrance, no reason that someone can't enter and move over if they do not care to travel at the (fast) speed in that lane. There are always going to be some sort of entrance, exit, HOV lane entrance'exit, it most certainly does not mean that a fast lane cannot exist and fuction as that.

In fact, considering the wet pavement and the tons of cars out today....that was pretty fast.

Are you bragging about this or what? Do you want to be know as the town with the highest freeway speeds or something?

[texas911]

First of all this place is racist.

Second of all, I've been to San Antonio recently and they have these signs that read "slower traffic keep right". Why can't we have that? Instead we have some stupid sign that says X amount of people have died since 1990 on x stretch of x freeway. That's stupid! People are just idiots.

There are the slow drivers on the left lane then there are those that cut in line.

Edited November 7, 2006 by texas911

[2112]

And if I did would you have me taken out? Good grief, so someone said people in Houston drive slow. What is the big frickin' deal?! It is not like they are saying that "life" is slow in these parts. And if it is...again...what is the big frickin' deal? Usually the dogooders would have gone on about how great they are for obeying the speed limit or even driving under it for safety-sake. But not here. He said i drive slow!!! HANG HIM!!!!!!

So, you have a left lane entrance, no reason that someone can't enter and move over if they do not care to travel at the (fast) speed in that lane. There are always going to be some sort of entrance, exit, HOV lane entrance'exit, it most certainly does not mean that a fast lane cannot exist and fuction as that.

Are you bragging about this or what? Do you want to be know as the town with the highest freeway speeds or something?

Thank you for your interest in the subject. To clarify here, what I was attempting to do is to point out a somewhat skewed view of how things "are" on the freeways. To say the least, the original post on this thread was in fact somewhat charged in tone, with some exagerations (the 20Mph thingy), so, I guess I kinda wonder why you dont make a point of pointing out that. I do believe the original poster was the one complaining, and so he got some responses from me and others. Yet, you only notice the responses, not the original source of it all. I mean there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying.

Also, you point out that the left lane should be designated and treated as the "fast" lane even though there may be an exit comming up. I think we can all agree that it is indeed unwise to travel at fast speeds when the lane ("left" or what have you) you are on is about to take a tight radius onto a ramp. It's just not good practice.

And lastly, in regards to your "bragging" comment: Well, No, it was not bragging, it was simply an observation that the average speed seems to be closer to 67, based on emperical evidence from two trial experiments, and not the alledged 20MPH as our originator claimed. I then finished it off with the added observation that the pavement was wet (It was raining). I mean it was. So I thougth I would mention it. Frankly, I think people should drive a bit slower when it's wet. Don't you?

Edited November 7, 2006 by 2112

[MiDTOWNeR]

Thank you for your interest in the subject. To clarify here, what I was attempting to do is to point out a somewhat skewed view of how things "are" on the freeways. To say the least, the original post on this thread was in fact somewhat charged in tone, with some exagerations (the 20Mph thingy), so, I guess I kinda wonder why you dont make a point of pointing out that.

I actually have posted in this thread that I felt the 20mph reference was an exageration. But, I understood what the poster was trying to say, so I did not take LITERALLY that the poster really felt people were driving 20mph on the freeway. it did not hurt my ego for the poster to say the people were driving 20mph.

Yet, you only notice the responses not the original source of it all. I mean there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying.

Why would you think that I did not see the original post...becuase i did not have a problem with it? Or because I have not quoted it? I understood what they were trying to say..end of story. For whatever reason, that was their experience on the freeway...so be it. I do have not felt the need to prove what they experience wrong.

Also, you point out that the left lane should be designated and treated as the "fast" lane even though there may be an exit comming up. I think we can all agree that it is indeed unwise to travel at fast speeds when the lane ("left" or what have you) you are on is about to take a tight radius onto a ramp. It's just not good practice.

Im not agreeing to anything. Left lane is the fast. Regardless of entering the the freeway via the left lane or not, one is still entering a fast moving environment and a driver is going to have to alter their approach accordingly. Considering that not everyone drives at exactly the same speed all of the time anyway. there is is no reason that one cannot enter the FAST LANE and adjust the driving accordingly for the amount of time they need til they get to the speed at which they chose to travel. And if means slowing to let one by, so they can then cross the fast lane to the next lane so be it. Or if you have to floor it to get into the flow of traffic and they adjust accodrningly...you do what you have. to do. But to just say that...well, this freeway has an entrance/exit to the left lane, so that cannot be the fast lane..ir ricidulous. The 10E has a LEft lane exit to get onto the 45N. when you are approaching the exit the dotted lines change, the signs let you know you are approaching said exit. You should slow down in this area. especially since you are going to exit and have to make a sharo left turn. OR, if you are continuing on 10E then you had better get out of that lane in order to stay on10E, so again you will have to adjust your driving to the road. but when you conitnue on 10E and you have passed that exit to 45....the left lane is the fast lane, until another deviation arises. Its simple.

And lastly, in regards to your "bragging" comment: Well, No, it was not bragging, it was simply an observation that the average speed seems to be closer to 67, based on emperical evidence from two trial experiments, and not the alledged 20MPH as our originator claimed. I then finished it off with the added observation that the pavement was wet (It was raining). I mean it was. So I thougth I would mention it. Frankly, I think people should drive a bit slower when it's wet. Don't you?

The issue you have with the 20mph post is ridiculous. Why take such a post so literally when it clearly need not be taken that way. It gives the impression that you had nothing else to argue about. It reminds me of the South Episode where Tom Cruise was literally in the closet, in Stan's room, and he would not come out. Nicole said ," it's okay, you can come out of the closet, Tom" And Tom replies "but I'm not in the closet". So what if someone said 20mph. They were making a point. One day you too will say/post something that is a colorful way to explain something and people will quote you ver batim and hold you to it when you in fact were just using that as an example.

Edited November 7, 2006 by MiDTOWNeR

[2112]

Now. Now. There's no reason to have any of THAT.

[Perimeter285]

Obviously I haven't visited this post in a while! When I started it, I didn't anticipate that it would turn into Defensiveness 101!

Let me clear some things up here: when I said people drive 20 MPH in light traffic on the freeways, that was what we call an exaggeration. But it is no exaggeration to say that people drive in the range of 40 MPH on the freeways. When the general flow of a road is 60-70 MPH, can we not agree that this causes a dangerous situation? Can we also not agree that the people driving 60-70 MPH are driving more safely than the slowpokes? From a safety perspective, having these cars that refuse to keep up with the flow of traffic is akin to having random concrete poles sticking up in the middle of a lane (again, exaggeration...for effect...no undergarments in a twist, please). Either way, it's a (near) stationary hazard to moving cars which causes people to weave, brake, speed up, slow down, lose tempers and generally cause our freeways to be a mess. I'm not advocating driving 90 MPH on these dense freeways...that would be insane, and people who do that are just as much to blame as the slowpokes. However, a huge part of the traffic problem here is, as I've already mentioned, people have no concept of getting out of the way. Lead, follow or get out of the way: if someone behind you wants to go faster, move to the right. How difficult is that?

And while we're on the subject of defensiveness, people (or cities) who refuse to listen to constructive criticism are doomed.