Politically Incorrect High Schools

[LTAWACS]

You do realize that you replied to a message that's more than three years old, don't you?

Ugh. I did not notice the date.

[Highway6]

Ugh. I did not notice the date.

dates. fail x6

[Retama]

As a graduate of Robert E. Lee High School in Baytown I can tell you they also have a Lee College there. However, though named for R.E. Lee, Lee College was always just Lee College, not Robert E. Lee College. The nickname of their athletic teams is still the Rebels. As a kid this decal and logo were everywhere:

When I played Optimist Club football, we even wore the 'Angry Rebel' on our helmets. Today, this logo has just about disappeared. my old Optimist team much later changed its name from Rebels to Texans. I have noticed a trend toward giving high schools safe, innocuous names like Pasadena Memorial or Goose Creek Memorial. Blah.

Earlier in the thread someone asked how whites would like going to a school named for Malcolm X. I wonder how blacks would like going to the same school knowing that Malcolm X once sat down with the KKK in Atlanta to share ideas on how the Black Muslims and the Klan could work together to disrupt the civil rights movement?

Edited October 23, 2009 by Retama

[JLWM8609]

I wonder how blacks would like going to the same school knowing that Malcolm X once sat down with the KKK in Atlanta to share ideas on how the Black Muslims and the Klan could work together to disrupt the civil rights movement?

What is your source?

[AtticaFlinch]

What is your source?

I don't buy it either. Malcolm X and MLK weren't enemies even though they fundamentally disagreed on what the Civil Rights movement should accomplish and how they should go about trying to achieve their goals. It's true Malcolm X didn't have a ton of respect for MLK until the end, but that had far more to do with MLK's adherence to non-violent protests and er... questionable moral reputation than anything else. X didn't hate King, and he wouldn't have tried to undermine his efforts, especially by secretly partnering with the KKK.

[JLWM8609]

I don't buy it either. Malcolm X and MLK weren't enemies even though they fundamentally disagreed on what the Civil Rights movement should accomplish and how they should go about trying to achieve their goals. It's true Malcolm X didn't have a ton of respect for MLK until the end, but that had far more to do with MLK's adherence to non-violent protests and er... questionable moral reputation than anything else. X didn't hate King, and he wouldn't have tried to undermine his efforts, especially by secretly partnering with the KKK.

That's what I'm thinking. That comment seems to be in the same vein of the recent comment made about Governor Jester dying in the arms of a mistress.

[AtticaFlinch]

That's what I'm thinking. That comment seems to be in the same vein of the recent comment made about Governor Jester dying in the arms of a mistress.

After just a tiny bit of Google research, I've found the Malcolm X connection to be completely bogus. Marcus Garvey (not X) participated in a summit (not a meeting) about race relations (not about disrupting the civil rights movement) in Atlanta in 1922. The controversy came after Garvey said the KKK were better friends to blacks than most whites because the KKK were at least honest about how they felt.

Edit: The X/KKK link is even more suspect considering Malcom X insisted the KKK killed his father. Those would be strange bedfellows indeed.

Edited October 23, 2009 by AtticaFlinch

[Retama]

This is not new information.

My sources are several books and articles on Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam. One of them is Bruce Perry's Malcolm: The Life of a Man Who Changed Black America written in 1991. It notes that in late January of 1961 (Jan. 28, 1961) Malcolm X along with Jeremiah X, NOI leader in Atlanta, held a secret meeting with the Ku Klux Klan in Atlanta on Elijah Muhammad's behalf, seeking the Klan's aid in obtaining land for the Nation of Islam to implement its separatist philosophy. They also discussed possible cooperation in disrupting King's efforts at integration. Present at this meeting was a KKK member who was an undercover FBI informant. Claude Andrew Clegg's book, An Original Man: The Life and Times of Elijah Muhammad also details the incident.

Now, before you say that I don't have my facts straight or I'm lying, you should do more than "a tiny bit of Google research."

[Retama]

Here is a copy of an FBI memo on the meeting from 1961:

This was obtained from this site devoted to Malcolm X's FBI files: http://www.wonderwheel.net/work/foia/

Edited October 26, 2009 by Retama

[JLWM8609]

This was obtained from this site devoted to Malcolm X's FBI files: http://www.wonderwheel.net/work/foia/

Nice link! All of those documents are a history buff's dream.

[AtticaFlinch]

This is not new information.

My sources are several books and articles on Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam. One of them is Bruce Perry's Malcolm: The Life of a Man Who Changed Black America written in 1991. It notes that in late January of 1961 (Jan. 28, 1961) Malcolm X along with Jeremiah X, NOI leader in Atlanta, held a secret meeting with the Ku Klux Klan in Atlanta on Elijah Muhammad's behalf, seeking the Klan's aid in obtaining land for the Nation of Islam to implement its separatist philosophy. They also discussed possible cooperation in disrupting King's efforts at integration. Present at this meeting was a KKK member who was an undercover FBI informant. Claude Andrew Clegg's book, An Original Man: The Life and Times of Elijah Muhammad also details the incident.

Now, before you say that I don't have my facts straight or I'm lying, you should do more than "a tiny bit of Google research."

Relax. I wasn't calling you a liar. And, if it came across as such, please accept my apologies. I thought you were just another one of those people irrationally in love with conspiracy theories, but it appears I was wrong. You're right, next time I should do more than just a tiny bit of Google research. The link to the FOIA FBI page from the page you linked is pretty cool. It's amazing to me how much is blacked out in those odcuments, even 40 years after the fact.

[SLTX]

Thanks to all. My question elicited some interesting comments, and I'm hoping to see more. Please though, no comments on mascot names. That's an entirely different debate that may be worth a separate thread of its own. I'm more interested in your thoughts on schools named for people who were famous in infamous causes, such as defending slavery in the Civil War -- excuse me: that War of Northern Aggression.

Someone mentioned John H. Reagan, and thanks for that. His name didn't occur to me when I started this thread. And speaking of Confederate war hero Dick Dowling, along with the school named for him, don't forget his statue at the entrance to Hermann Park over on Macgregor.

I had forgotten that Robert E's given names were taken off Lee High School a few years ago. Does anybody really believe that makes any difference? It's still Robert E. Lee, whether his given names are used or not. It's like taking the name Henry off the letterhead at Ford Motor Company and pretending the company's not named for Henry Ford.

I'm in full agreement with those who say it's wrong and silly to change names on buildings and other landmarks just because they're no longer politically correct with one group or another, in this case African-Americans. That sort of mindless revisionism can get out of control very easily, and it wouldn't be long before Mexican-Americans and other Hispanics would want names like Houston, Crockett, or Travis, or Bowie, or Austin taken off schools they attend in large numbers.

You know what? It may well be true that we don't have any controversy over those Confederate names because hardly anybody today knows who those people were, or what they were famous for. See? Nothing's ALL bad. Even historical illiteracy.

Abraham Lincoln viewed blacks as an inferior race, stated in a speech that he "doubted they were even human", and believed they should be resettled overseas to prevent them from mixing with the white race. Should we erase his name from all institutions as well? How about many of the nation's founding fathers, such as Thomas Jefferson, who owned slaves.

I probably would've felt the same way as you back when I only had a third grade understanding of the civil war and the events leading up to it. But after much reading and research, you realize that the war wasn't about slavery, it was about much broader issues, but slavery was used as a wedge issue (politics never change) to garner support against the south. The Union leaders and generals were just as "racist" as the Confederate ones.

If we start removing the names of every historic figure that supported slavery, opposed women voting, that was anti-semitic, that thought the red man should be eliminated, etc., believe me, there will be NO ONE LEFT. Not one. Society has changed drastically in the last 200 years, and NOBODY from that era is going to stand up to our 2009 social standards.

[jmancuso]

^ well said

[Rusty_S]

Came across this topic looking for something else, didnt read all 3 pages but scanned through the first page. I see alot of errors in what people were saying. First off the confederate flag, I am assuming people are talking about the bars and stars flag which one person was saying you shouldnt have it cause its a flag of a old dead nation. Problem with that statement is the "stars and bars" confederate flag was a battle flag carried in battle, it wasnt the national CSA flag. That would be what is called the "bonnie blue flag" which was a solid blue flag with just one star on it, which later gave way to the national bars and stars which was simmilar to the US flag but only 2 bars of red and one bar of white with 7 stars in the field of blue.

In any case I think its purely insane to censor any part of history and the twisted history that the schools teach. I dont see one issue with owning or even displaying flags like the bonnie blue flag, or the confederate stars and bars or the german nazi flag. They are historic flags but they do not denote who a person is, the "stars and bars" confederate flag was a battleflag that has been tainted over time by use of racists and neo nazi`s in marching which is the reason why uneducated people are against these flags because they dont know the true history.

For instance and this is just alittle bit of how the government has re written history and is teaching people a altered history than it really happened. For instance in the civil war we are taught the civil war was started by the confederates that attacked a union fort, fort sumter. That is a nice washed down history but what they dont say is that this fort is located in South Carolina, and five (5) days after they succeeded from the union Major Robert Anderson abandoned his fort, Fort Moultrie without orders from the US government and headed to fort sumter. At this time the Confederate States called for the Union to sell all their government buildings in the south and to remove their troops out of their newly founded country. The US government refused and then further instigated the start up of the civil war by increasing its troop size more and more (which was the big reason for the succession because they planned to invade southern states to kill a rebellion). Then a ship paid for by the Union sailed for Fort Sumter to attempt to resupply it and re-enforce it. By all means this was taken as an act of war and an invasion and the Confederates opened fire upon them to repel the invaders.

Now I dont want to make this about telling history I just want to point out that in every war the victor of a battle/conflict/war always, ALWAYS writes history how they want it. They go so far as to say that the south was fighting to keep slavery even though in states like texas at the time of the civil war (who was part of the CSA) didnt make up but on avg only 25% of the total population (it was higher in some countys and lower in others as low as 0%, 25% is just my rough avg). It is safe to assume the majority of those that fought in the civil war wasnt fighting to keep slavery but were more than likely fighting for their ideals and viewed the government as a tyrrant and was doing what the constitution gave them the right to do. The Union did all they could to stop them going as far as denying to sell out their forts after they broke away.

I will also admit I do have multiple CSA flags, I also have union flags but the reason for these is to preserve history and for the fact that I had ancestors (two brothers) who fought for both the Union and Confederacy, which is where the proof of slavery wasnt being fought for to keep by the south because my ancestors never had a single slave and spoke out against them. Now this is the big kicker if this war was to end slavery why did the Union outlaw slavery in the south instantly at the surrender of the Confederate army but yet it took 1 full year for the north to abolish slavery. Then another way this civil war could have been avoided if this was about slavery was to stop the import of slaves. The union was the major importer of slaves that were then sold to the south. Reduction of slave expansion would have eventually lead to the death of slavery naturally as it became unprofitable. So in the end this was nothing about slavery but in my opinion a desperate attempt at the US government to keep the southern states from breaking away when they belived the US government was becoming a tyrrant and becoming too powerful by dictating what states have to do. Honestly if we look at how things are now, one can see how the government has done nothing but got more and more powerful over time.

Now about the schools, I think its crazy to make a big deal over a school named "Robert E. Lee", It is a name of a person that did his duty to his state when the government wanted to march in troops in force turning guns on their fellow citizens to coarce "obediance" from them. I also dont see a issue with the flags. I mean I never heard of anything happening to that hispanic principle who took down the US flag and ran up a Mexican flag. Now if you are flying the confederate state of america flag above or inplace of the US flag then there might be issues but long as no other flag flys above the US flag including state flag theres nothing can be done by anyone it is your right. Theres a guy here that is flying a "dont tred on me" flag below the Texas flag which is below the US flag. Some would say that flag is offensive because people want to rock the boat and change something they dont like. Can we all remember those people protesting saying that "under god" is a christian prayer even though "god" is generic and cover any god.

[chomper]

Lee highschool is a horrible and dangerous school to go to. my brother went there years ago and he got harassed and bullied all the time because he was the only white person in the class. i picked him up many times and i could have sworn i saw atleast 1 person handcuffed a week outside the school. there needs to be a closer public highschool in the galleria area. but that school is just dirty i went in there once to use the bathroom and there was these mexican gang signs all over the wall. seriously ive heard nothing but bad news about that school. im glad i didnt go there that school is way to ghetto.

[KristinDaugherty]

If you recall, Rhett and Scarlett named their child "Bonnie Blue Butler".

Point of order: the child was named Eugenie Victoria. Melanie commented that the baby's eyes were as blue as the bonnie blue flag, and the nickname stuck.

/pedant

[Rusty_S]

Lee highschool is a horrible and dangerous school to go to. my brother went there years ago and he got harassed and bullied all the time because he was the only white person in the class. i picked him up many times and i could have sworn i saw atleast 1 person handcuffed a week outside the school. there needs to be a closer public highschool in the galleria area. but that school is just dirty i went in there once to use the bathroom and there was these mexican gang signs all over the wall. seriously ive heard nothing but bad news about that school. im glad i didnt go there that school is way to ghetto.

Sounds sorta like Waltrip when I went to it back in 2003-2006. It wasnt bad to the point where there was racisim against the minority which happened to be white. I think it was cause most of the white kids were "ghetto" and acted more like the black kids so they were accepted. Other than that the school was a hell hole. There were always fights, and my senior year we had someone set fire to trash cans in restrooms trying to burn the school down the last week of school during finals. But its the reason why more and more parents are going to private school, better education and the "bumbs" like I described above typically cant get in. Thats just like I got suspended for a week from waltrip because two idiotic football players (one hispanic and one black) were saying how they were going to come to my place and steal my cars. I calmly told them to try it cause they would leave the property in a body bag and there would be nothing the cops could do since Texas allows lethal force to protect your property from theft. Make a long story short they ran to the head HPD "rent a cop" that just happened to be black saying all this bs bout how I was going to take them out to the woods and put a bullet in them and all that. The cop belived them because they went to him first but proceeded to treat me like a criminal. Its just amazing how cops just appears to have no brains anymore. But then again it didnt help me any to be a loner cause no one wanted to go against the two football players by saying what they really said so it was just my word against theirs. Then the cop held me 2 hours after school let out and didnt even allow me to atleast call my ride at the time so they didnt know wtf was going on, the school didnt know wtf was going on because the cop took me to his office not the school office and then finally he just let me go because no one came to get me and he let me go with the final question of would i seek those guys out to harm them. That was funny as hell if there was strong evidence that I was going to kill them why would he ask me a question like that and then let me go. It was nothing but racial harrasment.