METRORail University Line

[Highway6]

During the rush hour, there should be a train almost every two minutes going through downtown from these two lines. Oy!

Glad I'm not the light timing engineer in charge of that section.

[ricco67]

Glad I'm not the light timing engineer in charge of that section.

Hmph. By driving some sections of the city, I didn't even KNOW we had such creatures working for the city.

[Slick Vik]

I think these figures are interesting nonetheless. It probably shows that at the moment, in houston, public transit is inefficient...and it is. It would be interesting to show a comparison of other cities with a higher transit usage to see if have a figure maybe even lower than $0.55 per mile. It would also be interesting to see how Metro's figure of $0.91 has changed over the years.

Public transit is never a profitable venture. Then again, neither are highways.

[TxDave]

Public transit is never a profitable venture. Then again, neither are highways.

Exactly, both are investments that will define how the city will develop for many years to come.

Freeway decisions made decades ago clearly define how our cities now look.

Over time rail lines will help determine how & where new development will occur in increasingly congested areas.

But we shouldn't expect dramatic results overnight - the investment takes time to pay off.

[Jax]

Does anybody know what the official status of the University line is? Is it on hold for funding? Or is it just scheduled to be built after the current construction is finished on the other lines?

[mfastx]

Does anybody know what the official status of the University line is? Is it on hold for funding? Or is it just scheduled to be built after the current construction is finished on the other lines?

I'm guessing it is on hold for funding. I emailed the METRO representative asking for an update on the line a couple of months ago, and got no response...

[TheNiche]

I'm guessing it is on hold for funding. I emailed the METRO representative asking for an update on the line a couple of months ago, and got no response...

That's unacceptable.

[JamesL]

One of the agency's goals for this fiscal year is to examine the funding options and determine the path forward for the University Line. So hopefully there will be news in the next few months.

[IHB2]

One of the agency's goals for this fiscal year is to examine the funding options and determine the path forward for the University Line. So hopefully there will be news in the next few months.

City of Bellaire recently voted to proceed with the rezoning/development of TOD in the space bound by Westpark, 610 South svc road and S. Rice (the current industrial zoned area south of the offramp for Westpark Tollway)

This is a deal the COB and METRO have discussed for a few yrs.

Maybe Bellaire knows something or is just more confident than I am that METRO will find funding and complete the U Line in this decade.

[hbcu]

I read the line funding went through despite someone trying to block it

[Nick_G]

I read the line funding went through despite someone trying to block it

That is correct.

"WASHINGTON - The committee chairman described it as a "food fight," an after-midnight bout as Republican Congressman Blake Farenthold tried to jimmy legislation to block federal money for Metro to build or extend the University and Uptown light rail lines.

In the end, his effort failed. But the wrangling in the wee hours last week spotlighted the countless little-noticed struggles that take place across Capitol Hill as lawmakers try to steer taxpayers' dollars toward projects they favor – and away from projects they oppose."

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Attempt-to-block-MetroRail-funding-fails-3159794.php

On a side note, metro still has the university line listed as preparing for final design. Anyone think I should hold out hope that it once again goes into uptown instead of the warehouse district of Bellaire ? (I know they rezoned for an urban center but the plans as were discussed here are underwhelming)

http://www.gometrorail.org/go/doc/2491/418119/

[IHB2]

Nick G the routing fight has been fought but probably is not over

elevating over the sw fwy and running a mile or so through the desert that is Westpark between Cummins and Chimney Rock has been cussed and discussed on here for years.

I posted some stats on this thread years ago that support why I think it is the most expensive, ill-advised of the possible options.

In short, I argued that that routing will cause a mobility nightmare from Weslayan to South Rice and along the adjacent sw fwy and 610 service roads in that stretch.

My original posts are #502-503-504 on page 17 of this thread, July 3, 2006 (yikes).

Edited February 10, 2012 by IHB2

[Pumapayam]

Nick G the routing fight has been fought but probably is not over

elevating over the sw fwy and running a mile or so through the desert that is Westpark between Cummins and Chimney Rock has been cussed and discussed on here for years.

It's a desert now, but once you build it, things will pop up. Either way, this is exciting news, regardless, just means another option instead of cars and parking lots.

[IHB2]

It's a desert now, but once you build it, things will pop up. Either way, this is exciting news, regardless, just means another option instead of cars and parking lots.

It's not possible for much to "pop up" along that stretch since the Centerpoint ROW brackets the METRO ROW and Centerpoint owns all of the property on the south side of Westpark west of the UPRR to Newcastle. That leaves a few hundred feet south of the current dog park (on the ROW) to the 610 svc rd.

There is no room for TOD development on the north side of Westpark along that stretch either with existing office bldgs, a large COH water station, the Hou Chron, etc.

Still, the lack of TOD would not matter if running rail through there on 3-12 minute headways 20 hrs day would not fubar the north/south traffic on the only 2 n/s arteries in that stretch. it will be a mobility nightmare on Weslayan, 59 svc rd @ Weslayan, the 610 svc rd (north) @ Wpark, and Wpark where the tollway dumps 1000s of cars onto a little 2/10 mile piece of Wpark @ 610 AND METRO proposes to connect to the Uptown Line.

This is not the same as screwing up cross streets along the Main St Line. This is about the rail's interaction with serious #s of vehicles every minute of every work day.

[ChrisPHous]

Come on Afton Oaks...you are between 610, Richmond, and Westheimer. Honestly if I was one of the houses on richmond I wouldn't mind the rail, atleast the street will be redone nicely and its not like there will be a stop infront of your house.

[TheNiche]

I want to see grade separations on this route at high-traffic intersections. Otherwise (never-minding the opportunity costs) I think that it'll do more harm than good to regional mobility.

[Highway6]

Come on Afton Oaks...you are between 610, Richmond, and Westheimer. Honestly if I was one of the houses on richmond I wouldn't mind the rail, atleast the street will be redone nicely and its not like there will be a stop infront of your house.

This thread was started 6 years ago today.

Three thousand, Four hundred, and thirty-eight posts later and this conversation is still in the same place for some people. Amazing.

Who cares what you would want. Who cares what the people of Afton Oaks want or wanted. The "deciding where tracks should go" part of this discussion stopped years ago. Metro won't and shouldn't be having this conversation again.... and neither should we.

[TheNiche]

The "deciding where tracks should go" part of this discussion stopped years ago. Metro won't and shouldn't be having this conversation again.... and neither should we.

If it were any other entity than METRO, I'd be inclined to agree that the conversation is over. They'd have done their due diligence, communicated adequately with stakeholders, and had their final engineering specs ready and available. The reality, as we found out from the East End debacle, is that METRO may very well start building the line in a middle segment before they've figured out how to connect it to either terminus. Until the tracks are in the ground, I wouldn't expect or encourage any interested party to be quiet and just live with it.

[Nick_G]

I wouldn't expect or encourage any interested party to be quiet and just live with it.

I agree, in fact the frustration with this line not going to uptown is one of the main reasons I started looking for pro-rail people eventually leading me to join this forum. It might not be a big deal for you, Highway6 in Montrose, but speaking as someone from uptown this remains very significant.

I also encourage people to go to one of these meetings, to let them know this needs to be fixed.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Nick_G

[TheNiche]

Nick, a second line is planned that connects the Red Line to the Northwest Transit Center via Post Oak Blvd. It might not happen immediately, but it will happen. (And actually, I'd rather that it happen later because the University Line will provide an opportunity for people to realize the critical importance of grade separation at major intersections.) And in the mean time, the University Line will connect to the Hillcroft Transit Center...which I'd argue is more important than Uptown in some respects because southwest Houston's demography, extreme density, and already-high rate of transit use will enable the light rail system to capture a tremendous number of riders and seem to the FTA (for the sake of future funding) as though it is awesome...whether it is or not.

And at the end of the day, METRO must play to the screwy FTA criteria or it makes it harder for them to get additional funding for new projects...even unsexy projects.

[Highway6]

I agree, in fact the frustration with this line not going to uptown is one of the main reasons I started looking for pro-rail people eventually leading me to join this forum. It might not be a big deal for you, Highway6 in Montrose, but speaking as someone from uptown this remains very significant.

Just becasue the two lines are diffent colors on the map does NOT mean trains can't go from one to the other. We aren't talking H vs HO scale here. It has been known for years that the transtion between the two lines will not be a T intersection but a T intersection with a curve from Uptown to University. - Translation: Every other train on the University Line will be going to north to Uptown and beyond.

Again with the 3 yr old conversations.

And yes... as a Montrosian, I never dare wander more than a mile from the intersection of Westheimer and montrose.. so this Uptown business wouldn't mean jack diddly to me. Really ??

Edited February 10, 2012 by Highway6

[Highway6]

If it were any other entity than METRO, I'd be inclined to agree that the conversation is over. They'd have done their due diligence, communicated adequately with stakeholders, and had their final engineering specs ready and available. The reality, as we found out from the East End debacle, is that METRO may very well start building the line in a middle segment before they've figured out how to connect it to either terminus. Until the tracks are in the ground, I wouldn't expect or encourage any interested party to be quiet and just live with it.

By all means then.. You and Chris should team up this Saturday and go pass out pamphlets in Afton Oaks about the merit of rail on Richmond. Have fun with that.

[Nick_G]

Just becasue the two lines are diffent colors on the map does NOT mean trains can't go from one to the other. We aren't talking H vs HO scale here. It has been known for years that the transtion between the two lines will not be a T intersection but a T intersection with a curve from Uptown to University. - Translation: Every other train on the University Line will be going to north to Uptown and beyond.

Again with the 3 yr old conversations.

No one is forcing you to participate, if you are done with the conversation don't worry about it, I am not going to reiterate all of the arguments for this line going into uptown as they are already listed in this thread but I do agree with them.

And yes... as a Montrosian, I never dare wander more than a mile from the intersection of Westheimer and montrose.. so this Uptown business wouldn't mean jack diddly to me. Really ??

You are the one who said we should not care.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Nick_G

[Nick_G]

By all means then.. You and Chris should team up this Saturday and go pass out pamphlets in Afton Oaks about the merit of rail on Richmond. Have fun with that.

Isn't the opposite "basically" what drove them to force the lines off Westminster and Richmond in the first place?

[Highway6]

No one is forcing you to participate, if you are done with the conversation don't worry about it, I am not going to reiterate all of the arguments for this line going into uptown as they are already listed in this thread and I do agree with them.

You don't need to reiterate all of the arguments FOR the train going into Uptown.

It does.

Somewhere on haif is a a link or a image of the metro engineering schematics for the intersection of those two lines. IT shows a curve that allows the westbound trains the choice of either continuing west or going north.

It has also been stated by Metro that trains would indeed do that, that they would most likely alternate.

Here.. I drew you a picture.

[Nick_G]

You don't need to reiterate all of the arguments FOR the train going into Uptown.

It does.

Somewhere on haif is a a link or a image of the metro engineering schematics for the intersection of those two lines. IT shows a curve that allows the westbound trains the choice of either continuing west or going north.

It has also been stated by Metro that trains would indeed do that, that they would most likely alternate.

Here.. I drew you a picture.

I was not part of the debate three years ago. I am voicing that I agree with those who would put the rail down Richmond, if as the Niche has stated that it will get more passengers at the hilcroft transit center is true then that is great and I hope it is as that is fine as that is the goal. (I do believe however that there would be more passengers on this train if it went to the corner of Richmond and Post Oak and then made it's way to Hilcroft). You act as if someone had one conversation once then it can not be mentioned again.

[samagon]

for the short length that this thing will go down westpark, I don't see it as a problem. I wish the people living on richmond right inside the loop could understand they are living on a major thoroughfare, and be more complicit, but that's life. they want to live on a major thoroughfare without a light rail line.

either way, the uptown line will link the Uline through the Galleria Area up to that transit center on 610 and i10.

[mfastx]

I want to see grade separations on this route at high-traffic intersections. Otherwise (never-minding the opportunity costs) I think that it'll do more harm than good to regional mobility.

I agree with this, I would have liked to see some subway sections or at least elevated sections. Sadly, I don't think that there would be any way in hell that we could get funding for more grade separation. As transit is severely underfunded in the US, it would be very difficult to achieve federal funding for an even more expensive line.

However, I disagree with the bolded part. I think that (if it's ever built) the University line will be the most heavily traveled line in the system. And that transit ridership along the Richmond corridor will increase.

[Nick_G]

for the short length that this thing will go down westpark, I don't see it as a problem. I wish the people living on richmond right inside the loop could understand they are living on a major thoroughfare, and be more complicit, but that's life. they want to live on a major thoroughfare without a light rail line.

either way, the uptown line will link the Uline through the Galleria Area up to that transit center on 610 and i10.

I view it as ok, but it could have been in my opinion a lot better, and since funding is always being fought for train money I would have liked to seen the best option put in place since who knows when we will get another chance.

For all of those who continue to think I do not know about the uptown line of course I know it's going in (at some undetermined point). The crossing of those two trains right next to the galleria (and the 5 or 6 apartment complexes and other buisnesses right there) would have made perfect sense, which is my point.

For the university line specifically as we'll see when the uptown line gets put in.

Yes all the people could potentially walk the extra half a mile each way (your basically having to walk a full mile from the stop to the galleira mall now) and under the overpass to Bellaire where right now there is nothing. If it does get built up and the area continues to add density then great but to me that added walk especially when ridership numbers count does not make sense. If you need to get to the hilcroft transit center it should have switched across westpark after post oak and outside the loop.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Nick_G

[TheNiche]

I agree with this, I would have liked to see some subway sections or at least elevated sections. Sadly, I don't think that there would be any way in hell that we could get funding for more grade separation. As transit is severely underfunded in the US, it would be very difficult to achieve federal funding for an even more expensive line.

METRO arranged local funding for two very expensive grade separations at railroad tracks that cross Harrisburg, so in my mind, the funding is there for critical and sometimes non-critical infrastructure if constituents demand it. I would prefer that constituents think about things like this NOW, and not after the fact, once we're stuck with crappy and inadequate infrastructure and a multi-decadal traffic jam.

However, I disagree with the bolded part. I think that (if it's ever built) the University line will be the most heavily traveled line in the system. And that transit ridership along the Richmond corridor will increase.

Setting aside the number and characteristics of light rail ridership as a dispute for another day...my concern is less for the east/west traffic along Richmond than it is for the north/south traffic crossing Richmond, especially at Shepherd and at Kirby.