CDeb Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 considering how whites treated Blacks and Japanese in US history I would think many wouldn't even try to make that jump...Maybe not everyone places everyone else into groups. There are no young white people today who were involved in the history you described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 but a black-white relationship is still looked at as unsightly compared to whites and every other racetherapy might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 they look down on black men, will shun their own to marry white......never could figure that out...considering how whites treated Blacks and Japanese in US history I would think many wouldn't even try to make that jump...but a black-white relationship is still looked at as unsightly compared to whites and every other raceAnd I find that interesting that anyone would still be trying to blame the "White Man" for things that happened in history. The Majority of the the culprits for this treatment being dead or in some rare cases near dead. At what point in life do you move on and up from that dark hole you continue to try and exist in? At what point does that deep dark hatred for a generality go away, and you start practicing what you preach. There are many ways that racism can raise it's ugly head, and continue to do so, Blaming a 25 year old man for something that happened 150 years ago, is just as racist as that sorry peace of white trash that drug Byrd down the back roads of Jasper County. Racism is racism, are there degrees of racism? I think not, it's simply racism and it's sad that it still exists because it does, I make no bones about it, it's just a plain and simple fact. But you got to let the ancient history go and deal with the realities of today. One day perhaps it won't even cross cross our lips anymore, even though it appears to still be human nature, to refer to some as a "White Man" or "Black Man", instead of just a "Man". Being a man married to someone of Middle Eastern descent, I don't say this standing outside the aquarium looking in. I learned a great deal since 9/11, of just how much it still exists in our world. Even though my wife and kids are very Americanized, my wife and daughters do not wear the traditional hijab type of dress, they much prefer Dolce and Jimmy Choo, but it's not hard to see they are not Scotch-Irish. My kids are proud of their heritage, the Lebanese people are great people as well they should. However since 9/11 there were a few idiots in this world that actually thought that all people of middle eastern descent were guilty of crimes against humanity in the wake of 9/11. How small the mind can get, when it's polluted with ignorance and hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Don't forget that there are many women who marry for papers(" mail order brides" sort of speak) too in addition for wealthier, higher economic social status. Can't blame them. Economic security is what most people seek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Does this mean you don't approve of women of color who marry white men? In California, where I live, many Asian women, particularly Japanese Americans marry white men. According the information from the US Census Bureau, in 2006, 50 percent of U.S.-raised, married Asian women were married to Asian men, while 41 percent of U.S.-raised, married Asian women had white husbands. 60 percent of U.S.-raised married Asian men were married to Asian women, while 30 percent of U.S.-raised, married Asian men had white wives (2006 U.S. Census Bureau).Consult the following for more detailed information http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtmlFrom what i've seen, most Asian American women(whether Chinese, Japanese, etc.)that marry Caucasian men really don't speak any Chinese, Japanese, etc. or know much at all about their heritage. So essentially, it isn't any different if the Caucasian men had married a Caucasian woman.As far as the Asian women that marry Caucasian men, i see many of those as foreign students, foreign employees, visiting relatives here with visas, etc. who eventually got married or some who need some form of legal papers to stay in this country and eventually sponsor their own parents, siblings, etc. Also, these women see Caucasian men as a sign of wealth, stability, etc from what they've been informed of while back in Asia. This is through other friends or even the loca Asian media. Many of the Caucasian men that have interest in these women see them as good housewives(not caregivers my bad) who will treat them well and have dinner ready when they come home from work.Obviously, this isn't always the case, but i've met quite a few people and talked to friends who have relatives that experienced this. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Many of the Caucasian men that have interest in these women see them as good caregivers who will treat them well and have dinner ready when they come home from work.Oh, so you mean Southern men. Race doesn't matter. Expectation is still the same if they're old school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Oh, so you mean Southern men. Race doesn't matter. Expectation is still the same if they're old school.I meant old school Caucasian guys look for these type of Asian women since we were discussing Caucasian men and Asian women, but it applies to other races like you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbcu Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 economic security...enough said...you have the white female segment that hooks up with black athletes for that same purpose and then instant divorce once the kid pops out....but alot of foreigners who grow up in a majority white setting will marry white most of the time anyway.....hispanics, the lighter ones especially, pick up caucasian tendencies pretty easily if they are reared in a upper middle class setting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Oh, so you mean Southern men. Race doesn't matter. Expectation is still the same if they're old school.So, by being a 12th generation (as far as I can tell) Southern male, you'd expect for someone like myself to be a prick to women? Is that what I'm supposed to take away from that comment?Come on, now. Housekeeping is what immigrants are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Come on, now. Housekeeping is what immigrants are for.so you say this and instead hire a crack addict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Getting way way out on the thin ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 so you say this and instead hire a crack addict?Light-duty demolition work and debris removal is not housekeeping...although the lesson learned was that immigrants are better at that, too. Besides, it was heroin, and I didn't know about that until after all the drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Besides, it was heroin o ok, it's alright then. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 So, by being a 12th generation (as far as I can tell) Southern male, you'd expect for someone like myself to be a prick to women? Is that what I'm supposed to take away from that comment?no, not at all. Because my impression is you're not old school. But, the 'woman! where's my dinner!' thing is still very prevalent, moreso among southerners. Many women still actively play the submissive helpmate role, as well. Southern culture and fundamentalist religion keep old-fashioned gender roles alive and well. sort of off topic, but have you ever been to a pentecostal or assembly of god wedding, and listened to the vows? OMG. You can always tell the non-pentecostal family in attendance by their jaws hitting the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ... pops out....ROTFLMBAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 So, by being a 12th generation (as far as I can tell) Southern male, you'd expect for someone like myself to be a prick to women. And your point is? Sorry Niche I just could not stop laughing when I read that at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Southern culture and fundamentalist religion keep old-fashioned gender roles alive and well.Empirical evidence has shown pretty conclusively that it really has far less to do with culture or religion than it does with employment opportunities available to women. Give poor rural households an opportunity for the women to earn good money and watch what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Empirical evidence has shown pretty conclusively that it really has far less to do with culture or religion than it does with employment opportunities available to women. Give poor rural households an opportunity for the women to earn good money and watch what happens.Then how to explain the middle class women in my office who hold lunch hour bible study with topics like 'how to honor your husband'? I agree that poverty and education are powerful drivers. But, I've been around educated, working women my whole life who choose men, and a lifestyle that perpetutate that gender role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Then how to explain the middle class women in my office who hold lunch hour bible study with topics like 'how to honor your husband'? I agree that poverty and education are powerful drivers. But, I've been around educated, working women my whole life who choose men, and a lifestyle that perpetutate that gender role.Well if we're going to trade anecdotes, mine are the exact opposite. Excluding low-paying 'pink collar' jobs, its really hard to find someone that still clings to tradition. Then again, there aren't a lot of women in commercial real estate or related fields (excluding apartment management), and the ones that can cut it in the boy's club aren't going to be very delicate. These are the type that are aggressive, cutting deals in the ninth month of pregnancy and returning to work within a week of giving birth. If the opportunities that motivate them weren't available, I'm sure a lot of them would be content to stay at home and raise their kids, even if a pink-collar job were possible.My opinion remains the same. Provide women with incentives to work rather than raise kids, and traditions get thrown out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Where can I sign up for a sugga mamma? I will stay home and take care of the kids and the household! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Where can I sign up for a sugga mamma? I will stay home and take care of the kids and the household!Sure you will. You'll probably end up playing poker for coupons with the neighbor ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Well if we're going to trade anecdotes, mine are the exact opposite. Excluding low-paying 'pink collar' jobs, its really hard to find someone that still clings to tradition. Then again, there aren't a lot of women in commercial real estate or related fields (excluding apartment management), and the ones that can cut it in the boy's club aren't going to be very delicate. These are the type that are aggressive, cutting deals in the ninth month of pregnancy and returning to work within a week of giving birth. If the opportunities that motivate them weren't available, I'm sure a lot of them would be content to stay at home and raise their kids, even if a pink-collar job were possible.My opinion remains the same. Provide women with incentives to work rather than raise kids, and traditions get thrown out the window.This is a very interesting exchange. I mean, we're talking about what used to be called feminist issues. Your point about high-powered women is so true, BTW. If you consider that I'm nearly 20 years older than you are, it puts things in context. 20 years ago I would have said exactly what you just did about providing incentive to work, and throwing out the traditions. Now, I see every day where tradition is alive and well. Often, if seems to be women have set themselves back a generation or more. Feminist backlash seems much stronger than I ever imagined it could be. (Understand I'm overreacting to this whole Christian-right subjugate- yourself- to- husband mini-movement that has gained traction) Hell, I go home and cook dinner 3, 4 nights a week, despite that I work longer hours. WTF? I do it willingly, without ever stopping to consider that I never envisioned myself being that person. It's as if I reached a certain age and all of a sudden a pre-programmed 50's housewife switch in the back of my brain just got flipped. My point is, gender roles are ingrained much more deeply than we realize. (insert biological imperative discussion here). Dang. Off track. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 This is a very interesting exchange. I mean, we're talking about what used to be called feminist issues. Your point about high-powered women is so true, BTW. If you consider that I'm nearly 20 years older than you are, it puts things in context. 20 years ago I would have said exactly what you just did about providing incentive to work, and throwing out the traditions. Now, I see every day where tradition is alive and well. Often, if seems to be women have set themselves back a generation or more. Feminist backlash seems much stronger than I ever imagined it could be. (Understand I'm overreacting to this whole Christian-right subjugate- yourself- to- husband mini-movement that has gained traction) Hell, I go home and cook dinner 3, 4 nights a week, despite that I work longer hours. WTF? I do it willingly, without ever stopping to consider that I never envisioned myself being that person. It's as if I reached a certain age and all of a sudden a pre-programmed 50's housewife switch in the back of my brain just got flipped. My point is, gender roles are ingrained much more deeply than we realize. (insert biological imperative discussion here). Dang. Off track. My bad.Well, I have anecdotally picked up on biological imperative, both from other people's experiences and my own, and I have no doubt that that factor is inescapable. But at the same time, as long as there are poor people (or people that have a 'poor' mindset regardless of the opportunities that actually are out there), there will be people that accept the gender role that you've defined as "traditional".I think that a lot of "traditional" people only seem to be influenced more by religion or 'traditional culture', but that most are probably just seeking the validation that religion or 'traditional culture' can provide; it helps them define themselves and also provides them a sort of insulated community that won't challenge that definition. It seems to me that the key difference between these kinds of "traditional" women and the "high power women" comes down to self esteem.To the extent that there is a backlash against feminism, I suspect that it is in response to some high-profile bitches that characterize the extreme of the feminist movement (for instance, the type that would vote for Hillary Clinton expressly because she's a woman, regardless of her policy positions)...and I've got problems with them, too...and that the backlash is actually comprised of the moderates in an intellectual discussion. I'm not sure that the "traditionalists" ever really joined the discussion to begin with, except insofar as they could cherry-pick bits and peices from talk radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Here's a question that should be posed for any guy, no matter what race. Why are they interested in Asian women vs. Asian American women or vice versa?Where can I sign up for a sugga mamma? I will stay home and take care of the kids and the household!This brings up an interesting question. Do women really mind that their hubby/bf is earning less? I see alot of news or tv stories where women don't mind making more than men with the husbands having an issue with this. However, the reality is that most women do look down on men who earn less. Hey, i don't have a problem with women earning more than myself. Hook me up with one!!...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I don't look down on men who earn less than me. I'm not the sort of woman who needs to know a guy's income potential before I go out for drinks. I just keep property and other assets in my name only; separate from my relationship. That said-- I'm a bit of a spendthrift and very generous with people I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 That said-- I'm a bit of a spendthrift and very generous with people I care about.where's my mitre saw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 where's my mitre saw?Ha, ha. Baby steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Ha, ha. Baby steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Also, just because you make more today doesn't mean you will be making more in the future. I would hope you would not judge your relationship with someone based solely on income.At one time my dad made more than my mother, but he quit his job because he was always traveling and never saw us. He landed another job that he liked but it paid far less, and he didn't have to travel. To this day my mother makes more than him (well not anymore as she retired early from the corporate legal world) and there has never been an issue.I think if you truly like/love someone and see that they have goals in life it shouldn't matter how much they make. Now if you have some schmuck who isn't goal orientated then that is another story.I guess that is why I don't care who makes more in my relationships as long as they have aspirations in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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