Lead-Based Paint

[Quinlan]

We recently purchased an old house in the Heights (~1923) and my wife and I have some concerns over lead-based paint. We have not tested yet, but given the age of the house, we are fairly certain that there is lead-based paint present somewhere between the top coat and the bare wall. I was wondering if anyone in this forum has experience with testing, abatement, and general handling of the issue? I believe that the biggest areas of concern are windows, door frames, and uncovered soil. While our windows are all painted shut, there is some flaking paint on both the windows and some of the doorframes (as well as an area on one window with some wood rot). Any suggestions on how to paint over/fix these problem areas that will minimize future flaking and peeling? Anybody with experience with replacing old windows (though I would hate to get rid of them)? Any recommendations for good contractors that handle this type of thing and would be conscious of out lead-paint concerns?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Guest danax]

Anybody with experience with replacing old windows (though I would hate to get rid of them)? Any recommendations for good contractors that handle this type of thing and would be conscious of out lead-paint concerns?

You have lead paint in your house, no doubt at all. If you have little children, I would be extra cautious with dust and paint stripping. I have a HEPA respirator and try to do all stripping outside on my porch, with plastic underneath, sometimes. Other times I just sweep up any dust and put it in a bag for disposal. A heat gun is usually the easiest method for stripping, although each item is a little different. I also like wet sanding sometimes as the dust level is low but the grain gets raised a little. Just use common sense. Lead is nasty but it's not anthrax.

It is a very laborious thing to strip paint. Sometimes just knocking off the biggest pieces and painting over (encapsulation) is the best idea, but it looks less than perfect. Thinking about paying someone to strip for you? Won the lotto lately?

I strongly recommend against replacing the old windows. The wood is almost always far better than anything available now and, if you want to use those flat, metal replacement windows, well, prepare to spend the rest of your days in the Heights getting frowned at or spit on, and rightly so . The old double-hungs are sooooo cool when they are restored to proper working order and will last forever if maintained. Use sash chains instead off rope and you'll never have to replace them.

Congratulations on buying a historic home and welcome to the forum.

[TJones]

If you have children, small children who might be prone to eat paint-chips then there is reason for concern. The lead isn't going to radiate out of the paint and absorb through your skin. If it is just you and your wife or husband or partner, then I would not be so concerned.

Here is some light reading for you.

http://www.lockport-ny.com/Allegheny/lead.htm

[sevfiv]

just don't breathe the dust

[heightslurker]

There is a great book out on step by step restoring old wood/ double-hung windows..

"Working Windows, Revised and Updated Edition : A Guide to the Repair and Restoration of Wood Windows"

I am considering making "storm windows" to fit on the outside where the screens would go...a sort of old fashioned "double pane" effect to save energy..has anyone else done this?

I haven't tackled the lead-paint issue yet but have read many things and they basically say to wipe down your window sills often to clean up any dust accumulation and either "encapsulate" (as mentioned previously) or strip in a controlled environment (ie hepa filters, masks, taping off rooms, and clean up, etc.)

Personally, I have it on my list to send soil samples off to A&M to test for lead before doing a veg. garden..perhaps this is extremely paranoid but wouldn't it "suck" that one goes through all that effort to be healthier and grow veg. when in the end it just poisons you slowely?? I know my house had been painted recently and after seeing how painters scrape mounds of paint off the house onto the ground, it just makes me wonder...

[Quinlan]

Thanks for the advice everyone. We do have a small child, which is really our main concern. I've read that adults that have a proper diet can process lead fairly well, but that young children have a more difficult time. That, and the fact that the first time we brought him into the house he went straight to a window and latched onto it with his mouth.

heightslurker, I'm going to check out the book you suggested. The whole thing seems a bit intimidating though. I mean, I don't even have a clue how to take the window down. Danax, how do you take the windows down to strip them without just sending paint flying everywhere? Encapsulation sounds appealing from the amount of effort required versus restoring, but restoring the windows I think may give us a bit more peace of mind, not to mention prettier windows. I found the original weights from the windows in our garage when I did the initial clean-up.

[silverartfox]

The Old House Web forums are an excellent resource for those of us who own a pre-1950's house.

[heightslurker]

The Old House Web forums are an excellent resource for those of us who own a pre-1950's house.

I agree..there are tons of people out there in the same situation...

the couple (w/ new baby) at houseinprogress.net have restored many of their old windows their selves and now have to do all their renovations with a new baby..so i know they have similar safety issues they deal with...

the forum at americanbungalow.com is full of people doing similar restorations..

and, ofcourse, the old house web as mentioned by silverartfox

[heights_yankee]

My aunt and uncle bought a nearly condemmed farm house in MA when their twins were babies. They were only going to strip and repaint the windows on the outside b/c of lead. Well, the dust did what dust does and their twins both got very sick. One has a heart murmur (sp?) from the lead. They have said a million times that they wish they had just painted over the windows- freshening up the color and saving the renovation for much, much later.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do whatever you want. I just think this story is applicable to the conversation here. We are expecting and know there is lead in our bungalow as well, but we'll encapsulate anything that starts to chip rather than stir up a mess. I think, for us, if we wanted to get rid of the lead, we should have done it before we moved in.

[heightslurker]

found this small bit on the internet from here: http://www.drgreene.com/21_1132.html

Paint samples can be tested for lead. A common response to a positive lead test is to strip the old paint. DON'T. The process of removing old paint (especially sanding, scraping or burning) can produce large amounts of lead dust. Lead poisoning is very common during remodeling. Use a contractor skilled in lead abatement to enclose or remove the lead from your home.

For information on finding such a contractor, and finding local laboratories that can test lead concentration in your home or apartment, contact your local Health Department and ask for the Department of Environmental Health. Another great resource is the National Lead Information Center at 1-800-424-LEAD. Lead specialists are available through this hotline to answer your questions and will send you detailed information on preventing lead poisoning.

In addition, good nutrition (fresh fruits and vegetables, plenty of calcium and iron) causes less lead to be absorbed into the body. And the lead that is absorbed will do less damage.

[Heights2Bastrop]

GF had the same dilemma recently. She bought a HUD house, and they had extensive testing done for LBP, which was found to be on nearly all of the original windows. The house was constructed at either Camp Mabry or Bergstrom in 1942.

Since the paint on most of the windows was peeling, she decided to replace them all with Low-E windows. She got them at Window World, and for a pretty reasonable price.

She wanted grids (internal, between the panes) because she thought they would look better with an older house. We didn

[gnu]

if you are going to paint directly over oil based paint (which most lead based paints should have been),

latex paints will not stick well and will eventually peel. you will need to rough up the surface to get it to stay down or you might get away with painting oil-based kilz over it first.

unfortunately the previous owners just put latex over oil and it started peeling the day they left!

i fanatically stripped ALL the paint off of my son's bedroom windows and baseboards before he was born.

it was a LOT of work. i stripped the baseboards in the other bedrooms and then decided the labor would kill me before the lead would. the majority of the rest of the house i encapsulated using the method described above.

we have been lucky too, since i have never seen him chewing on a door or window ledge

Edited July 12, 2006 by gnu

[Quinlan]

We've actually got about 7 weeks before we have to move in, so after doing a little more research, I think the plan is to try to restore the windows and finish cleaning before then (six windows). Anyone able to give an estimation about how long one window takes to restore?

I ran across what seems to be a neat tool, though a bit pricey: the Silent Paint Remover. It uses UV light to "loosen" up the paint, claims to not release dust and gases, and obviously doesn't use chemicals. There's a pretty good write up for it on This Old House:

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/knowhow/ex...86353-3,00.html

Anyone have experience with this device?

[gnu]

I ran across what seems to be a neat tool, though a bit pricey: the Silent Paint Remover. It uses UV light to "loosen" up the paint, claims to not release dust and gases, and obviously doesn't use chemicals. There's a pretty good write up for it on This Old House:

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/knowhow/ex...86353-3,00.html

Anyone have experience with this device?

that sounds cool. if it works, i say its worth it.

can i borrow it when you are finished?

i tried a product called Ready-Strip that is environmentally friendly.

http://www.readystripoutlet.com/

it worked pretty well but it always seemed to leave some of the very first coat on the wood. it was also a little messy...especially when working against gravity like on door headers and archways.

their ultra-strip product seemed to work a little better and quicker but i would just buy the regular version - it was adequate.

[Guest danax]

Danax, how do you take the windows down to strip them without just sending paint flying everywhere?

Just take a razor knife and calmly slice the paint to free the windows. It helps if there's a recent coat of latex on them so the underlying layers of dusty lead paint don't fly too much.

You'll also have to remove the stops that hold the window in place. Another calm job as they're easy to break but replacements are available if you do, but don't count on finding the exact profile of the stop, so I would work gingerly plus, using the originals is more satisfying ultimately, to me anyway.

And, you might get lucky and have a house with an original shellac finish under the many paint layers. Paint comes off a lot easier than on bare wood. 1923.........maybe.

Worst case, you've got all alligatored lead paint on the surface just ready to fall off. Then, you might want to tape plastic all around your work area and dress in disposable clothing with a good mask, then get a HEPA vacuum when you're all done. The trick is not to let the dust fly around the room. Keeping it in one spot makes clean up easy, and your child will be safe.

It takes a lot of patience and desire to keep the house original to restore windows, that's why a house with them is so rare, and I think it adds real value.