Who Wants To Live In Katy?

[TheNiche]

I just took a work-related three-hour tour of the suburbs between I-10 and about FM 529 in the vicinity of Fry, Westgreen, Mason, Morton, Clay, et al.

This being a Sunday afternoon, the time of the week when the greatest number of people are outdoors, I immediately picked up on a trend. Greater than three quarters of all pedestrians were black. Moreover, they were wearing clothes commonly described as 'urban' and clearly spoke as though they'd just recently moved from the most derelict neighborhoods of the third or fifth wards.

One of the recurring questions on HAIF is 'who would want to live in those ugly new homes?' Today, I discovered the answer. Poor minorities. You've got to wonder about the long term political and economic implications here...I mean, if black folks start really catching up in terms of income, they might start voting Republican. I'm sure that there are other implications, and that you all will be eager to point them out.

This also seems to deflate the argument posed by some that communities will be destroyed...seems more like they'll just be relocated and shifted around a little...but given the sheer number of black-occupied households in that area (tens of thousands), I don't think that that's what is happening.

[editor]

Could you tell if these were native Houstonians, or displaced Louisianananans?

[TheNiche]

Could you tell if these were native Houstonians, or displaced Louisianananans?

No, I could not. It did occur to me that there might be some FEMA and insurance checks floating around out there that are getting cashed. But here's the thing...the most recent new home sales data that I've got definitely showed an upward blip as a result of the displaced populations, but it wasn't a big blip. New home sales will feel the effect for about another 6 to 12 months as leases come due and people make a more permanent transition.

But the sense I got was that this has been going on for several years. It is probably linked to the proliferation of inexpensive housing on small 40- to 49-foot lots. We're talking about prices from the $80's.

Hmmm...this should be a Chronicle story.

[Natty]

And your point is................

[RedScare]

And your point is................

Thank you.

[UrbaNerd]

If that is the true urban definition of urbanity, then the superdome after/during Katrina would have been the most urban place on earth.

Imbecility.

[TAK]

am i missing something here?

yes. yes i am.

[Jeebus]

Yes Niche, exactly what is your point? Everyone has to live somwhere.

What are you hoping to accomplish in this thread?

[TheNiche]

One of the recurring questions on HAIF is 'who would want to live in those ugly new homes?' Today, I discovered the answer. Poor minorities. You've got to wonder about the long term political and economic implications here...I mean, if black folks start really catching up in terms of income, they might start voting Republican. I'm sure that there are other implications, and that you all will be eager to point them out.

This also seems to deflate the argument posed by some that communities will be destroyed...seems more like they'll just be relocated and shifted around a little...but given the sheer number of black-occupied households in that area (tens of thousands), I don't think that that's what is happening.

I don't have a specific point, but I know that the patterns that I observed today have various meanings in different contexts. That's why I left it open-ended. For instance, All this owner-occupied housing for poor minorities is being placed in the Katy Prairie...makes for an interesting idealogical clash within certain political realms.

Likewise, it affects various political machines at all levels of government. And [gasp] what happens if poor folks become reasonably educated over in Katy ISD? Alternatively, what if they put it in motion to follow Spring's downward trend in terms of quality...and then we've got a discussion about how 'quality' is defined in public schools.

From there, one could examine the implications of having large numbers of poor folks, the bread and butter of Metro, living beyond the service area. Or for that matter, the socioeconomic implications of having a wealthy urban core and a pitifully poor suburban fringe.

See, there are a lot of discussions that can be had from this observation...but no...all you guys want is a point.

Life is about the journey. That's my point for this particular post. Happy?

[soifan]

I've been reading these forums for awhile, but decided to join tonight. This post caught my attention as I live in this area. I will start off by saying this area is far from the rough, inner city like area that you describe in your post. The people here are great and care about their neighborhood. I live off north Fry (still in KISD) and yes it is somewhat mixed racially, but not at all how you describe. On my street/block of 20 houses, there are 12 owned/ occupied by Caucasins, 6 by Hispanic families, 1 African-American family, and 1 currently empty. I feel completely safe in my subdivision and have no plans to move soon (& I grew up on the south side of I-10 in Katy in a more affluent/ less diverse area). Are there more minorities on this side? Sure there are, but it is nothing like your street scene observations described. I have no doubt that you must have seen some of what you described (or why else would you come here to post this), but I think you overgeneralized and obviously didn't spend much time in the subdivisions near me. That's a shame b/c there are some truly great people here of all nationalities/ races. (BTW, north of Clay Road is not KatyISD, but CyFair in this area. Just an FYI.)

I just wanted to clear things up. Have a great weekend!

[bachanon]

i think that niche is touching on a problem that has been discussed on other threads in the past. one of them being that builders of homes in the 80-120k range have targeted minorities and immigrants who've never owned a home before. i believe that there has been large scale manipulations of loan applications in order to barely approve at high interest rates people who cannot afford such homes. there are thousands of homes being built in spring and north of greenspoint. some of these neighborhoods have had residents for more than two or three years and there are still sheets in the windows, unfurnished rooms and unkept yards. i've seen only african americans, hispanic, asian and indian/pakistani people out and about in these neighborhoods and in the model homes. i was so much as told by a d.r.horton salesperson that my credit history or down payment didn't matter. she said they had several options available and once financed i could rent it out if i didn't want to live in it. (i had discussed that i didn't want to sell in the woodlands). most "teaser" type of financing requires that you reside in the property you mortgage. a larger deposit is usually required for an investor. i left with the impression that i could instigate the building and purchase of as many homes as i wanted over a period of time and become a slum lord in the process.

these builders are bilking banks in order to sell to unqualified buyers and making a killing in the process. they are selling the "american dream" in a fraudulent way to people who simply want a nicer place to live and it's going to bite all of us in the ass. they are marketing to minority and immigrant communities because they know they can get away with it.

i know that for many, this cheap/easy money (for the builder) is an opportunity of a lifetime and many will use it to the best advantage. however, many who've been sucked in to the sales person's "we have a lot of options" schtick, and further mesmerized by the model home with 35K in upgrades, will be learning a difficult lesson at great expense. in the coming years, when stories begin to come up in the press, you can say you knew it all along.

my intention for this rant is not to denigrate the buyers of these homes, but to illustrate that some builders, finance companies and sales people are capitalizing on the human desire to improve one's place in the world without regard for the applicants true ability to pay and maintain their purchase.

one more point. simply seeing african americans on foot in a neighborhood does not make it urban. i had words with a church goer once who was so proud of their "urban" bus ministry in CONROE, TX. she felt that because they were bringing kids in from the black community for saturday bus church that it was an "urban" ministry. she never understood why i didn't think they should be publicly calling it an "urban" ministry.

[Jeebus]

Good explination Bachanon. You saved Niche's loaded thread. As for me, I only have to ask: is it possible that these people who are buying $80k to $120k homes are simply just trying to move up in the world? What would you do to escape the apartments of the southwest side?

And Niche - here's a news flash, even the wealthest black kids will still dress "urban", and speak like they just came from a derelect neighborhood from the inner-city. Its the cool thing to do. Turn BET on for five seconds and you'd understand.

[RedScare]

Good job, bach. One salesman tells you they can get you into a home, and you've created an entire conspiracy out of it. At least you said that you you "believe" that they are doing these terrible things, as opposed to actually saying it is true. My question is, why is it only bad when they sell to minorities and immigrants? Builders do the same things in your utopian Woodlands. These are merely smaller, starter homes. In the Woodlands, the white buyers are mesmerized by $75,000 in upgrades. Other than scale, I fail to see the difference. BTW, the banks are not being bilked. The banks are the ones doing the lending.

[TJones]

I think all this thread proves is that Niche needs to get out more. That part of Katy has been predominately "Black" since the 90's Chief, it has absolutely nothing to do with forces of nature or "Urban" culture. I am so glad you know now. You learn something new everyday don't you Niche.

[TheNiche]

I've been reading these forums for awhile, but decided to join tonight. This post caught my attention as I live in this area. I will start off by saying this area is far from the rough, inner city like area that you describe in your post. The people here are great and care about their neighborhood. I live off north Fry (still in KISD) and yes it is somewhat mixed racially, but not at all how you describe. On my street/block of 20 houses, there are 12 owned/ occupied by Caucasins, 6 by Hispanic families, 1 African-American family, and 1 currently empty. I feel completely safe in my subdivision and have no plans to move soon (& I grew up on the south side of I-10 in Katy in a more affluent/ less diverse area). Are there more minorities on this side? Sure there are, but it is nothing like your street scene observations described. I have no doubt that you must have seen some of what you described (or why else would you come here to post this), but I think you overgeneralized and obviously didn't spend much time in the subdivisions near me. That's a shame b/c there are some truly great people here of all nationalities/ races. (BTW, north of Clay Road is not KatyISD, but CyFair in this area. Just an FYI.)

I just wanted to clear things up. Have a great weekend!

Well, I did notice that the demography varied significantly by subdivision, especially by price point. Some of the lower-price subdivisions even had a pretty large Hispanic population and relatively few African Americans, almost as though they'd seperated themselves. It kind of makes sense in a way, if anybody's ever read through Dr. Steven Kleinberg's annual Houston Area Survey results.

I also noticed that the further north that I went, the fewer African Americans there appeared to be. There were still a good number, but not in the same proportion as there were south of FM 529 and especially near Clay Road. Probably should have made my geographic definition a little more precise...

even the wealthest black kids will still dress "urban", and speak like they just came from a derelect neighborhood from the inner-city.

These were starter homes, not McMansions. Not the wealthiest kids...and the next step down on the socioeconomic ladder is a Class C apartment in the city.

I think all this thread proves is that Niche needs to get out more. That part of Katy has been predominately "Black" since the 90's Chief, it has absolutely nothing to do with forces of nature or "Urban" culture. I am so glad you know now. You learn something new everyday don't you Niche.

Sure do. Fact is, however, that had it not been for a work-related project, I would not in any way be inclined to drive through a dozen subdivisions full of new starter homes, regardless of where they are...just wouldn't quite make it onto my list. So thank you, TJones, for providing some historical perspective all the way back to the ancient days of the 90's for the subdivisions that I toured that didn't exist until two years ago.

So the trend isn't new...fact is that it exists...and I'm sorry if this topic appears to be the third rail of HAIFing.

Good job, bach. One salesman tells you they can get you into a home, and you've created an entire conspiracy out of it. At least you said that you you "believe" that they are doing these terrible things, as opposed to actually saying it is true. My question is, why is it only bad when they sell to minorities and immigrants? Builders do the same things in your utopian Woodlands. These are merely smaller, starter homes. In the Woodlands, the white buyers are mesmerized by $75,000 in upgrades. Other than scale, I fail to see the difference. BTW, the banks are not being bilked. The banks are the ones doing the lending.

Sorry Bach, but Red is 100% correct on this. Banks wouldn't lend if the borrowers presented to high of a credit risk.

[bachanon]

Good job, bach. One salesman tells you they can get you into a home, and you've created an entire conspiracy out of it. At least you said that you you "believe" that they are doing these terrible things, as opposed to actually saying it is true. My question is, why is it only bad when they sell to minorities and immigrants? Builders do the same things in your utopian Woodlands. These are merely smaller, starter homes. In the Woodlands, the white buyers are mesmerized by $75,000 in upgrades. Other than scale, I fail to see the difference. BTW, the banks are not being bilked. The banks are the ones doing the lending.

i can always count on you red.

yes, it is bad regardless of the color of the buyer. i think they are targeting historically poor communities with loose lending practices. on the banks......if the banks are not bilked by the amount of foreclosures then whomever is insuring the loans are. there is money flying around like nobody's business, it reminds me of the savings and loan debacle. deregulation of banking beget the savings and loan scandals. possibly, artificially low interest rates and incestuous mortgage/builder/title co. relationships have created a free for all. i not only had the conversation with one salesperson, i've purchased two homes in the last 10 years, had several non-business related interactions with builders/mortgage and title companies (usually in the same building, occasionally in the same office). these guys are pushing the limits of the law. there are mortgage companies coming from everywhere and out of nowhere with questionable lending practices. i'm being told that bad credit doesn't matter. income? we can work with that.

if i say much more and someone who i've spoken to reads HAIF, i might feel some distance from certain folks in the future.

[Montrose1100]

Urban has two meanings here...

The 1st one being Urban, as in Dense, City, Lots of people, Hong Kong, New York City, etc.

The 2nd one, "Urban", as in African American, Like the Music Genre "Urban Contemporery", or such that after the "White Flight", left the sense that only Poverty and Minority groups stayed in the city, slums, etc.

[Guest Plastic]

There's really no such thing as a white neighborhood in Houston. Pretty much all of Housotn is mixed. The stronges tbeing Sugarland were ever ethnicity under the sun exists in large numbers. The movies and TV shows portray suburns as being white and upper class. A drive throughMission Bend would clear that up. People think suburban means white and way out in nowhere and

urban means minority and in the middle of the city. Southwestern cities liek Houston and LA challenge that. ALmost eveyrbody is moving out and so are the bussineses. Downtown is technically called our DOwntown but there's far mroe to do on 1960 or Westheimer. Both of those area have a pretty diverse population.

Infact Housotn is one of the most diverse cities in the nation. Ft Bend is the 2nd most diverse county. Now, The San Fernando Valley in LA is not how the media portrays it. It's actually far more hispanic.

[JGraspo]

I applaud Plastic......that is the most comprehensive post I have read from him/her

You go Plastic

[Guest Plastic]

You really think I'm uncapable of making progress literally?

[JGraspo]

You really think I'm uncapable of making progress literally?

NO..... we just thought that maybe you gave up on ever trying spell check

I'm ipmressed

[TheNiche]

There's really no such thing as a white neighborhood in Houston. Pretty much all of Housotn is mixed. The stronges tbeing Sugarland were ever ethnicity under the sun exists in large numbers. The movies and TV shows portray suburns as being white and upper class. A drive throughMission Bend would clear that up. People think suburban means white and way out in nowhere and

urban means minority and in the middle of the city. Southwestern cities liek Houston and LA challenge that. ALmost eveyrbody is moving out and so are the bussineses. Downtown is technically called our DOwntown but there's far mroe to do on 1960 or Westheimer. Both of those area have a pretty diverse population.

Infact Housotn is one of the most diverse cities in the nation. Ft Bend is the 2nd most diverse county. Now, The San Fernando Valley in LA is not how the media portrays it. It's actually far more hispanic.

Now if only you could read between the lines...I only used the word 'urban' in one of its forms. It is a figure of speech, used in this case for comic effect because Katy is anything but urban.

[wendyps]

okay, I'm TRYING not to post, but I just can't help it.

Can you please tell me how an entire thread on the socio-economics of an area can possible be determined by a three hour drive through the commercial area of a town?

[bachanon]

It is a figure of speech, used in this case for comic effect because Katy is anything but urban.

i'm not sure about "comic". maybe "ironic".

irony - if rapper, ice cube, fell through ice while vacationing in canada and froze to death.

comic might be..........i was driving in katy and saw 50 cent walking down the road with his posse, then i turned the corner and there he was again. after about the third 50 cent and his posse i realized that there was some kinda "urban" thang going on the burbs.

it might be ironic (to some) that urban styles are in the burbs. you should see some of these white boys trying to look urban. now that's irony.

[Trae]

^I hate that. Take a walk in Cinco Ranch.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

^I hate that. Take a walk in Cinco Ranch.

Exactly. I just wish white people would dress white and black people would dress black.

And what's up with black people talking white?!?

[/sarcasm]

[Trae]

^How else are we supposed to get a good job.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

^How else are we supposed to get a good job.

The old adage is true...pimpin' ain't easy...

[Guest Plastic]

How is it in Cinco, there alot of minorities there?

[Trae]

There are a lot of Asians there. They outnumber us (black people). I don't actually live in Cinco Ranch, but close by it (Firethorne). Not many minorities. Cinco is like 80% white.