Tier 1 Schools

[KinkaidAlum]

Red's list is the U.S News and World Report top National Universities. The institutions closely resemble those of the Carnegie Foundation but they're not identical. It's the C.F. that puts out the Tier One rankings, which are based on much of the same criteria as the US News but includes things like amount of research $ granted, amount spent on research, and numbers of articles published by faculty. It's slightly more academic than the U.S. News list.

That said, the 2006 U.S. list has UT-Austin dropping down to FIFTY SECOND place. That's horrible. ATM comes in tied for 60th with 5 other schools. Both of these were top 50 schools a few short years ago and UT was pushing top 20 in the last decade. Seems as if UT's rise in football has coincided with a slide in academia!

TOP PUBLIC SCHOOLS according to U.S. News

20) Cal-Berkeley

23) Virginia

25) Cal-Los Angeles

25) Michigan

27) North Carolina-Chapel Hill

31) College of William+Mary-Virginia

32) Cal-San Diego

34) Wisconsin-Madison

37) Georgia Tech

40) Cal-Irvine

42) Illinois

45) Cal-Santa Barbara

45) Washington-Seattle

48) Penn State

48) Cal-Davis

50) Florida

52) TEXAS-AUSTIN

55) Maryland

58) Georgia

58) Pittsburgh

60) Ohio State

60) Purdue

60) Rutgers

60) TEXAS ATM

60) Iowa

66) Miami of Ohio

66) Delaware

68) Cal-Santa Cruz

68) Connecticut

74) Indiana

74) Michigan State

74) SUNY-Binghamton

74) Minnesota-Twin Cities

78) Clemson

78) NC State

78) Colorado

78) Virginia Tech

85) Auburn

85) Iowa State

85) Cal-Riverside

85) Missouri

85) Tennessee

93) SUNY-Science and Forestry

93) Vermont

97) Illinois Tech

97) SUNY-Stony Brook

97) Arizona

97) Kansas

97) Nebraska

97) New Hampshire

The UC system makes a mockery out of higher education in Texas. By not having "one" premiere institution and limiting enrollment (grad and undergrad) to under 34,000 at each campus, they've created a system in which SIX campuses are ranked in the top 50 and another 2 in the top 100. Texas has just two, neither of which are in the top 50 despite UT having more money than everyone but God (God is Harvard).

[tcole]

I visited NYC and people I met, upon hearing I was from Houston asked if I rode a horse to work, or if we had paved rodes!

"Rodes"? In a discussion over "higher" education. Doubts abound.

[texas911]

Tcole: ahh the good old internet forum comeback on misspelled words. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Now go find some puntuation mistakes.

[tcole]

911: You are actually attempting to defend that "oversight"? It is not like you transposed letters or missed one in fast typing. Or did not suficiently spell a more complex synonym for "roads".

More to the point 911, my comment was meant as sarcasm. I have read enough of your posts to know that you actually do know how to spell and compose sentences. I am not so much as calling into question your intelligence as pointing out some irony that assumably educated individuals addressing the issue of higher education would incur such a blatant error.

As to the subject at hand, my opinion is that rankings and lists are for the most part meaningless. Education is what one contributes to it. You can get as good an education from UH (non tier 1 status and all) as you can from Harvard. Along a certain vein of thought, attending Houston could be considered a wiser choice from a cost to return standpoint. Are Ivy League (and attendant others) schools great research institutions compared to UH? Probably, and at that level places like UH and Tech could stand some improvement, whether from the P Fund or from campaign drives. But as far as an undergraduate education goes, you are really going to get what you put in, whether that be at Harvard, Rice, A&M, or UH.

[MidtownCoog]

That said, the 2006 U.S. list has UT-Austin dropping down to FIFTY SECOND place. That's horrible. ATM comes in tied for 60th with 5 other schools.

I guess money is not the answer.

But looks at the elected clowns in Austin. They can't even fund public schools for our children.

We need a revolution in Austin.

[pineda]

But looks at the elected clowns in Austin. They can't even fund public schools for our children.

Gee, and I thought the Texas Lottery money was supposed to fund our schools. At least, that's what they keep saying at the end of their radio commercials that come on about every five minutes!

[MidtownCoog]

Gee, and I thought the Texas Lottery money was supposed to fund our schools.

You can thank Ann Richards for that.

She pulled the switch-and-bait at the last minute and sent that money to the general fund.

Thanks, Ann!

[pineda]

If that's true, then why does the Texas Lottery even bother using that tag line at the end of every commercial? BTW, does anyone here know what percentage of money from the Texas Lottery DOES get used to help fund public education? Maybe I'll call up my State Rep. and see if she knows...

[texas911]

Again, in the context of this discussion, TIER ONE, means better funding. Not the Tier One in rankings. You can't legislate a Tier One ranking, but you can funding.

There is no guarantee UH will rise in rankings if it gets Tier One funding status but it will at least keep our brightest from leaving the state and might attract more from out of state. See someone's post about the California system.

[MidtownCoog]

If that's true, then why does the Texas Lottery even bother using that tag line at the end of every commercial?

I have not heard it. But I suppose some money goes from the GF to Education.

[mrfootball]

I think as any investment goes, it's smart to diversify your portfolio to spread your risk/reward. As it stands today with Texas' investment in Higher Education, we've put all of our eggs in just two baskets. What do we have, just 2 flagships compared to California's 10.

The law of diminishing returns easily applies here as well as UT & A&M, despite massive financial resources, continue their slow backslide in comparison to the California schools. (When I was at UT in the early 1990's, the school was ranked in the Top 30). They've reached a saturation point.

Sheer stupidity on the part of Texas inept lawmakers. Whereas, just a marginal increase in investment at several other institutions would make a substantial impact, they continue to throw money at the two behemoths.

[tcole]

The law of diminishing returns easily applies here as well as UT & A&M, despite massive financial resources, continue their slow backslide in comparison to the California schools.

There would really have to be another explanation than applying diminishing "marginal utility". Given that analysis, Harvard, Stanford, and other well endowed (no pun intended) private universities would indicate similar moves toward "mediocrity" with their increase in available funding.

[RedScare]

You can thank Ann Richards for that.

She pulled the switch-and-bait at the last minute and sent that money to the general fund.

Thanks, Ann!

I suppose you would have rather had the education funding DROP every year, as the Lottery profits have dropped?

[MidtownCoog]

I suppose you would have rather had the education funding DROP every year, as the Lottery profits have dropped?

Spoken like a true fan of Ann!

Where did it read that lottery would have become the ONLY source of education funding?

Were they planning to eliminate my school tax bill?

[H-Town Man]

I didn't know UT was ever in the top 30. I remember in the late 90's, UT and A&M were both dancing around 50th, and one year A&M was actually 48th while UT was out of the top 50.

The number of Tier One universities a state has doesn't really mean anything. What matters is how many students are enrolled at a Tier One university. Most of those California schools are pretty small, while A&M and UT are two of the biggest in the country. There is still a gap, but it's not as large as those numbers would lead you to believe.

As for Rice... they really need to bolster their graduate programs. They provide a great college education, but they are not on the map as far as faculty and research muscle goes. They're a great college, not a great university.

Case in point: I am sitting in class at the University of Chicago in the fall of 2001, and my philosophy professor tells us about a friend who was up for tenure at Rice University, which, he says, is "a very good school in the South. It's in Houston." And all the students (besides me) nod their heads as though they had never heard of this place.

Now you look at the rankings, and see that Chicago is only one notch ahead of Rice. Ignorance? Not really. Chicago is one of the top five schools in the country in research muscle. Rice is not even one of the top fifty.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Spoken like a true fan of Ann!

Where did it read that lottery would have become the ONLY source of education funding?

Were they planning to eliminate my school tax bill?

I want in on that deal if you get your school tax bill eliminated :):)

[rantanamo]

Didn't UT announce a while back that UTD would be getting Tier 1 type funding when the whole Texas Instruments wafer fab partnership was announced? I remember UT Arlington making a huge stink about it. So much so that they were/are threatening a move to leave the UT system. I swear I read this a couple of years ago. It was perhaps in Alcalde or maybe the DMN discussing changes to the UT system.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Didn't UT announce a while back that UTD would be getting Tier 1 type funding when the whole Texas Instruments wafer fab partnership was announced? I remember UT Arlington making a huge stink about it. So much so that they were/are threatening a move to leave the UT system. I swear I read this a couple of years ago. It was perhaps in Alcalde or maybe the DMN discussing changes to the UT system.

I do remember UH and Texas Tech getting Tier I funding approved by the State Legislature a few years ago (I believe it was something in the range of $13 million and $6 million respectively), then immediately losing the funding to a line item veto by Rick Perry. Perry then turned right around and "granted" $50 million or so from his "governor's business development fund" to UT-Dallas for a partnership with Texas Instruments.

I may not have all the facts right on that story, but that's the gist of what happened a few years ago.

In Perry's defense, I think he did recently use his business development fund to grant $500,000 to UH.

[texas911]

Another reason to vote out Perry. He's so anti UH.

UT wanted UT Dallas to be Tier One before UH????!!!!! That amazes me.

[MidtownCoog]

The TI deal was a real pisser.

If any school should be Tier I in North Texas, it should be UNT.

UTD can wait in line.

[H-Town Man]

Does anyone know what the current breakdown is for annual funding between the schools?

Some of these smaller public universities have interesting stories behind them. Most were originally either a teachers' college, a "normal" college (meaning technical), or an agricultural college of some sort. University of North Texas was both a normal and a teachers' college. University of Texas at Arlington was at times a military academy and an agricultural college, and was part of the Texas A&M system until it moved to UT in the 1960's.

University of Texas at Dallas? It was founded as a research arm of none other than Texas Instruments in the early 60's. They then donated it to UT, and it became a part of that system.

This seems like a smart strategy. By "donating" your research arm to the state, you can receive public grants of up to $50 million for the benefit of your company, to the detriment of other state universities. How nice.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I don't have time to go through this in detail, but this report has some interesting numbers on Higher Education Funding in Texas:

http://www.lbb.state.tx.us/Education/Highe..._2ndEd_0105.pdf

Maybe someone more intelligent than myself can decipher these numbers. At first glance, I see that the UT and A&M systems (21 schools and institutions) shared $528+ million (1/3 to A&M, 2/3 to UT) of PUF funding in 2004-2005, over and above the "per student formula funding." A total of 30 other schools and institutions (including UH, TT, UNT, etc.) shared $175 million of HEF funding in 2004-2005. The funds I'm describing are generally meant for capital improvements, maintenance, etc...outside of teaching and operations, which are funded fairly equitably amongst all state schools.

In addition, the State Legislature DID indeed set up a "Texas Excellence Fund" to help UH, TT, UNT, etc. supposedly catch up with the PUF-funded "big boys" in the state. The Legislature graciously set up an $11.63 million dollar fund to be split among 22 institutions, with UH and TT getting the lion's share.

Apparently politics also came into play, and a few of the "poor little PUF schools" complained. The Legislature set up a matching $11.63 million "University Research Fund" to be split between 8 PUF system schools...their "research" funds come in addition to their share of the $528 million PUF.

Awesome. That's about all I can say. Awesome.

[mrfootball]

Here's something that'll piss you off:

UT & A&M System schools are supposed their funding via the Permanent University Fund (PUF), right?

Well, then why are there still EIGHT A&M and UT System schools still sucking off the much smaller tit (ie. the HEF) that Tech, UH, UNT and others share? The following institutions are still drawing funds away from Tech & UH, etc:

Texas A&M University

[MidtownCoog]

I heard A&M and UT don't share PUF, but I guess I was wrong.

It's a shame no matter how you slice it.

Who the heck wants to attend one of those hyphenated schools, anyway?

[KinkaidAlum]

Texas and Texas ATM do not share the PUF money with their branch institutions. The PUF is used solely for the main campuses.

I took part in the CATS program in which UH students, faculty, staff, and supporters lobbied in Austin for increased funding in a coordinated effort with Texas Tech. It was successful in setting up the "Excellence Funding" that was to be used for just UH and TTU. UT and ATM complained and used their might to bully the system. In the end, the Excellence Funding was further divied up to several UT and ATM branches as well as UH and Tech, essentially killing the program.

As an aside, the poster who stated that the # of students UT and ATM serve would essentially be similar to the Cal system, WRONG.

2005 enrollment figures (undergrads and graduate students)

49,233 Texas-Austin

44,647 Texas ATM

37,221 Cal-Los Angeles

33,558 Cal-Berkeley

29,637 Cal-Davis

25,938 Cal-San Diego

25,024 Cal-Irvine

21,016 Cal-Santa Barbara

16,622 Cal-Riverside

15,012 Cal-Santa Cruz

TOTAL

93,880 TEXAS

204,028 CALIFORNIA

[H-Town Man]

As an aside, the poster who stated that the # of students UT and ATM serve would essentially be similar to the Cal system, WRONG.

I said what matters is number of students enrolled at a Tier One university, and that the gap is not as wide as the eight California Tier Ones vs. 2 Texas Tier Ones would lead you to believe.

Let's look at the numbers:

California students enrolled at a Tier One: 204,028

Texas students enrolled at a Tier One: 93,880

Ratio: 2.17

Population of California: 33,871,648

Population of Texas: 20,851,820

Ratio: 1.62

In a perfect world, California would only have about 60% more students enrolled in a Tier One. As it stands, they have a little over twice as many. It's unfortunate, but I still think the "8 schools vs. 2 schools" statistic is misleading.

In fact, if we were able to make UH and Tech Tier Ones, I'd say we were doing well.

Maybe someone more intelligent than myself can decipher these numbers. At first glance, I see that the UT and A&M systems (21 schools and institutions) shared $528+ million (1/3 to A&M, 2/3 to UT) of PUF funding in 2004-2005, over and above the "per student formula funding." A total of 30 other schools and institutions (including UH, TT, UNT, etc.) shared $175 million of HEF funding in 2004-2005. The funds I'm describing are generally meant for capital improvements, maintenance, etc...outside of teaching and operations, which are funded fairly equitably amongst all state schools.

What this also says is that UT gets more money than every other school in Texas combined. As an Aggie, that makes ME angry!

[H-Town Man]

Here's something that'll piss you off:

UT & A&M System schools are supposed their funding via the Permanent University Fund (PUF), right?

Well, then why are there still EIGHT A&M and UT System schools still sucking off the much smaller tit (ie. the HEF) that Tech, UH, UNT and others share? The following institutions are still drawing funds away from Tech & UH, etc:

Texas A&M University

[MexAmerican_Moose]

These were probably colleges that were originally outside the UT and A&M systems at the time the PUF was set up, and then became part of them later. They don't receive PUF funds, so it's not like they're benefitting twice.

Notice that the HEF has been receiving $50 million a year to build a $2 billion endowment that will someday fund all the other schools. Until that $2 billion mark is reached, they will receive $175 million a year in straight funds.

No state distributes its cash equally to its schools. All aim to give a small, academically high-achieving portion of their students the lion's share of the funds. In Texas, automatic acceptance at UT or A&M is guaranteed by law to any student who makes the top 10% of his or her class. So if you want to go to a top institution, just make the top 10%.

The bottom line is that while these inequalities may offend our pride in our alma mater, they aren't really a tragedy for the students.

[And before I get hit by a firestorm of attacks, I do think that UH and Tech should get Tier One funding.]

i made top 10% but you have to realise that not everyone can afford to go to UT or A&M. UofH gave me a nice big scholarship so the choice was obvious, live at home and still go to a good school that is giving me money

[mrfootball]

In Texas, automatic acceptance at UT or A&M is guaranteed by law to any student who makes the top 10% of his or her class.

The Top 10% rule applies to all state schools. 25% of TTU students were in the Top 10% as well.

[texas911]

Wasn't UT Austin turning incoming freshmen away because of lack of space? That right there should tell you something. There is a market for more Tier one funded schools in Texas.