Greetings!

[flipper]

Hey Folks,

I've enjoyed browsing the topics here for the last hour or so.

I'm a big fan of "modern" design and houses. I like MCM's but some are a bit over the top for me.

I'm a full time real estate investor (rehabber, flipper) etc... I've done a half dozen or so houses in the three years I've been doing this, although none have been MCM's.

My question is... Is there enough of a market for MCM's that I could feel confident rehabbing one "correctly" and have a decent pool of buyers?

Any opinions?

Thanks,

flipper

p.s. Feel free to bash flippers. Most of them do garbage work. Go see 4810 Briarbend for a prime example.

[bachanon]

bachanon sings......."they call him flipper, flipper, that was his name" (insert dolphin chirping here)

welcome to the forum flipper.

[rps324]

Hey Folks,

I've enjoyed browsing the topics here for the last hour or so.

I'm a big fan of "modern" design and houses. I like MCM's but some are a bit over the top for me.

I'm a full time real estate investor (rehabber, flipper) etc... I've done a half dozen or so houses in the three years I've been doing this, although none have been MCM's.

My question is... Is there enough of a market for MCM's that I could feel confident rehabbing one "correctly" and have a decent pool of buyers?

Any opinions?

Thanks,

flipper

p.s. Feel free to bash flippers. Most of them do garbage work. Go see 4810 Briarbend for a prime example.

There is a strong market for mods in good shape. That one I can answer without hesitation. The uncertainty comes in what is considered rehabbing "correctly." For example, there is one in Spring Branch where they invested a lot in granite, which typically is not a popular choice with mod buyers. That feature, combined with other "lumber store embellishments" made the house a complete turn off to my mod buyers.

Even within the mod market there is a wide range of tastes. On one extreme you have those who want all original cabinetry and would install vintage pink or aqua appliances, etc. on the other end, others want new sleek appliances and cabinetry that is contemporary, combined with the architectural style of a MCM house.

[flipper]

I understand what you are saying.

I'd be leaning more toward the latter of your scenarios. The last house we sold was a brick 1950s non modern house that we put a bit of a contemporary feel into (I think).

If I could find a MCM with the right numbers I'd love to give one a try. I obviously have enough consultants right here!

Here are a couple pics of the last house we did.

It probably won't appeal to most MCM fans, but none the less:

flipper

ps. sorry about the huge pics

[dbigtex56]

There is a strong market for mods in good shape. That one I can answer without hesitation. The uncertainty comes in what is considered rehabbing "correctly." For example, there is one in Spring Branch where they invested a lot in granite, which typically is not a popular choice with mod buyers. That feature, combined with other "lumber store embellishments" made the house a complete turn off to my mod buyers.

Even within the mod market there is a wide range of tastes. On one extreme you have those who want all original cabinetry and would install vintage pink or aqua appliances, etc. on the other end, others want new sleek appliances and cabinetry that is contemporary, combined with the architectural style of a MCM house.

This reminds me of Antiques Roadshow, where people are told "This piece would have gone for $15,000...but because you chose to refinish it, that brings its value down to $500. Sorry."

Of course, there's a different dynamic at work for houses than for Chippendale side tables. Some people think a new faucet means that the house has new plumbing, and that granite countertops will always be in fashion. It might take a while before Mods are appreciated in their totality.

[Willowisp]

What's "over the top"? Ha ha. I wonder if my house might be over the top...

Anyway, I find this very interesting. The word you put in quotes "correctly" is really the word to emphasize here. Like RPS said, there is so much variance in "correctly" and how far you want to take it. When we started our house (done totally through a contractor who wasn't knowledgable about mod before, but he knows a lot more about it now) I learned the difference between renovation and restoration. It's a thin and important line. Unfortunately, I have a hard time being completely happy until I feel like my house is RESTORED. In other words, I tolerate my 1990's renovated kitchen because it's functional and I already spent so much on the rest of the house. But honestly, I wish the original kitchen was there. Someday...

I feel that a true restoration could never really see a big profit. There's just too much labor involved. If we were to sell our house today after one year of restoration, I don't know that we'd make our money back, though some say we would. Of course we didn't do the work ourselves and we spent more money because we wanted the house our way. It's not for sale anyway.

There's a part of me that cringes at the thought of flippers getting ahold of mods, because the intent is profit and so it just seems like corners are cut there. Look at my neighbor's house who had a flipper who didn't care a few years back. But there's a part of me that hopes you take on the challenge of a mod because these houses deserve to be repaired/restored and loved. These houses have a lot of personality. I feel like my house has a life of its own. I wish it could talk to me. I really wish the architect were still alive!

My advice would be to get some kind of a consultant - RPS would be a good one, others at Houston Mod would be good too. Some would do it for a fee some would just answer/debate questions for free like on this board or Lotta Living.

Good luck and let us know if you're going forward.

Jason

Hey Folks,

I've enjoyed browsing the topics here for the last hour or so.

I'm a big fan of "modern" design and houses. I like MCM's but some are a bit over the top for me.

I'm a full time real estate investor (rehabber, flipper) etc... I've done a half dozen or so houses in the three years I've been doing this, although none have been MCM's.

My question is... Is there enough of a market for MCM's that I could feel confident rehabbing one "correctly" and have a decent pool of buyers?

Any opinions?

Thanks,

flipper

p.s. Feel free to bash flippers. Most of them do garbage work. Go see 4810 Briarbend for a prime example.

[GoAtomic]

I understand what you are saying.

I'd be leaning more toward the latter of your scenarios. The last house we sold was a brick 1950s non modern house that we put a bit of a contemporary feel into (I think).

If I could find a MCM with the right numbers I'd love to give one a try. I obviously have enough consultants right here!

I'm somewhat of a 50's purist when it comes to these houses, but I do like your pics. The look is nice & clean, without resorting to the standard 'all-white' theme that has been done to death in rehabs.

Some suggestions for rehabbing a midcentury house would be:

1) use pale, cool interior paint colors (blues & greens, even superpale yellow) wherever possible to evoke the retro feel, and if you have to paint the trim a contrasting color, don't use white. Use an eggshell 'bone white' (hints of pink and grey in this) as the trim neutral.

2) kitchen cabinets - forget any flared/fluted trim or carved doors if replacing. Simple and clean works best. But original cabinets can look great with a quality surface prep and good smooth paint, plus new hinges and pulls. Also - think about painting a color other than white.

3) Use sleek chrome faucets, not the brushed nickel farmhouse type that EVERYONE is buying now. The old PriceFister single handle units come to mind, and they're cheap.

4) Use forest-tone exterior main paint colors (Spruce or Forest green, barn red, even saddle brown can work well) and if the brick is in good shape, DON'T paint it. Instead, use the paint colors to bring it out -even orangey brick looks good when set off with a cool graygreen paint color. And if the house has an interesting roofline, use another color to accent the eavelines and soffits.

5) one word for bathtile - MOSAICS. The little shiny glass ones. They're not cheap, but even if used just for accent inserts (maybe against simple black or white subway tiles), they again evoke the MCM feel.

6) light fixtures - check out rejuvenation.com for very cool 50's fixtures, inside and out. And there are some simple, inexpensive choices at the home improvement stores that will work, too.

I'm sure there are more ideas out there ...

If you end up rehabbing another midcentury house, please post pics of your work- I think everyone would like to see how it turns out.

[flipper]

What's "over the top"? Ha ha. I wonder if my house might be over the top...

Anyway, I find this very interesting. The word you put in quotes "correctly" is really the word to emphasize here. Like RPS said, there is so much variance in "correctly" and how far you want to take it. When we started our house (done totally through a contractor who wasn't knowledgable about mod before, but he knows a lot more about it now) I learned the difference between renovation and restoration. It's a thin and important line. Unfortunately, I have a hard time being completely happy until I feel like my house is RESTORED. In other words, I tolerate my 1990's renovated kitchen because it's functional and I already spent so much on the rest of the house. But honestly, I wish the original kitchen was there. Someday...

I feel that a true restoration could never really see a big profit. There's just too much labor involved. If we were to sell our house today after one year of restoration, I don't know that we'd make our money back, though some say we would. Of course we didn't do the work ourselves and we spent more money because we wanted the house our way. It's not for sale anyway.

There's a part of me that cringes at the thought of flippers getting ahold of mods, because the intent is profit and so it just seems like corners are cut there. Look at my neighbor's house who had a flipper who didn't care a few years back. But there's a part of me that hopes you take on the challenge of a mod because these houses deserve to be repaired/restored and loved. These houses have a lot of personality. I feel like my house has a life of its own. I wish it could talk to me. I really wish the architect were still alive!

My advice would be to get some kind of a consultant - RPS would be a good one, others at Houston Mod would be good too. Some would do it for a fee some would just answer/debate questions for free like on this board or Lotta Living.

Good luck and let us know if you're going forward.

Jason

Great Post Jason,

I'm familiar with your house. I bought a house last year from the agent who had your house listed. She wanted to sell me yours before she put it on the market, but I wasn't ready to tackle 2 at once at that time.

I understand what you are saying about having mixed feelings about having a flipper get ahold of a MCM. I can find one where I can make an acceptable profit I'd love to give it a shot. My potential buyer would be someone like the people on this forum so I'd definetly try to do as much "restoring" as possible and as little "renovating" as I could. But like you said, I can feel your fear about a flipper coming in and gutting all the unique features of the home in the interest of making it "better".

I'll be on the lookout for the right house.

flipper

[flipper]

I'm somewhat of a 50's purist when it comes to these houses, but I do like your pics. The look is nice & clean, without resorting to the standard 'all-white' theme that has been done to death in rehabs.

Some suggestions for rehabbing a midcentury house would be:

1) use pale, cool interior paint colors (blues & greens, even superpale yellow) wherever possible to evoke the retro feel, and if you have to paint the trim a contrasting color, don't use white. Use an eggshell 'bone white' (hints of pink and grey in this) as the trim neutral.

2) kitchen cabinets - forget any flared/fluted trim or carved doors if replacing. Simple and clean works best. But original cabinets can look great with a quality surface prep and good smooth paint, plus new hinges and pulls. Also - think about painting a color other than white.

3) Use sleek chrome faucets, not the brushed nickel farmhouse type that EVERYONE is buying now. The old PriceFister single handle units come to mind, and they're cheap.

4) Use forest-tone exterior main paint colors (Spruce or Forest green, barn red, even saddle brown can work well) and if the brick is in good shape, DON'T paint it. Instead, use the paint colors to bring it out -even orangey brick looks good when set off with a cool graygreen paint color. And if the house has an interesting roofline, use another color to accent the eavelines and soffits.

5) one word for bathtile - MOSAICS. The little shiny glass ones. They're not cheap, but even if used just for accent inserts (maybe against simple black or white subway tiles), they again evoke the MCM feel.

6) light fixtures - check out rejuvenation.com for very cool 50's fixtures, inside and out. And there are some simple, inexpensive choices at the home improvement stores that will work, too.

I'm sure there are more ideas out there ...

If you end up rehabbing another midcentury house, please post pics of your work- I think everyone would like to see how it turns out.

Great Tips GoAtomic,

I'll bookmark this post in case I do find a MOD.

Of all the houses I've done, ALL of them have been mid-centuries and I'm sure all the rest will be to. However, we do mostly "traditional" work. We tried to go as "plain" as we could on the last one, the one I posted the pics of. It's amazing how hard it is to find plain mouldings without much of a profile.

We ended up fabricating our own baseboard and door casings out of 1x4 MDF with a rectangle routed out of one edge to give it one more "profile". We also took some froo froo cabinet lip mould and ripped as much of the profile off as we could to get a clean look.

I like your idea of the grey/green against orange brick. As a matter of fact, My own house is in this scheme:

I also like your idea of mosaic tile. I've researched them alot.

Here's a cool website I found:

Mosaics

we've actually used some marble mosaic in a few houses.

Here's one example where we used it as a countertop and accent in a shower in the same bath:

Thanks again for your insights,

flipper

[Willowisp]

My bathrooms are hakatai (sorry for the old pic, but it's all I have online right now)...

Honestly, I can't say that I "restored" the house completely. There are some renovations that are "just for us" that some purists might have problems with. This tile for example may be a little more colorful than Jenkins used in the 50s. His other houses have monochromatic mosaic tiles. They also have bullnose tile that we couldn't find, hence the straight edges on the tile. But we fell in love with this tile. We put a light fixture in the bedroom that might be too kitsch for some. Also, our front door has a little moulding on it, but we needed it quick and cheap. We wanted glass in our front door and no mailbox in the door as the old one had. So, someday maybe I'll go back to a plain wood front door, but when I did that I had the attitude that more glass the better.

The whole time is a fight between restoring this particular house as it was, vs houses in general as they were in 1955, vs how I want this house to be vs how much I can afford. It's constant compromise. Yet very fun. A small part of me is longing to buy another house and do it all over again...

I'd be fascinated to know what ultimately kept you from buying our house, as lots of people passed on it before we found it. And you're welcome to drop by the housewarming party on March 5th to see it.

Jason

Great Tips GoAtomic,

I'll bookmark this post in case I do find a MOD.

Of all the houses I've done, ALL of them have been mid-centuries and I'm sure all the rest will be to. However, we do mostly "traditional" work. We tried to go as "plain" as we could on the last one, the one I posted the pics of. It's amazing how hard it is to find plain mouldings without much of a profile.

We ended up fabricating our own baseboard and door casings out of 1x4 MDF with a rectangle routed out of one edge to give it one more "profile". We also took some froo froo cabinet lip mould and ripped as much of the profile off as we could to get a clean look.

I like your idea of the grey/green against orange brick. As a matter of fact, My own house is in this scheme:

I also like your idea of mosaic tile. I've researched them alot.

Here's a cool website I found:

Mosaics

we've actually used some marble mosaic in a few houses.

Here's one example where we used it as a countertop and accent in a shower in the same bath:

Thanks again for your insights,

flipper

[stolitx]

I found several sellers on Ebay offering great mosaics for the best prices I've found. This is one of the sellers, but there are several.

http://stores.ebay.com/Glass-Mosaic-Tiles

I'm planning to do my kitchen backsplash in mosaic and the kitchen counters in the traditional laminate. Keeping my original cabinetry.

I like the tile you used Jason. I walk the same tight rope you do. I need new floor throughout the entire house. I'd love terrazo, but it's not financially feasible for me. I wish I could not have window coverings, but after a year, the Houston sun won.

[Willowisp]

My tile wasn't quite as inexpensive as the tile on ebay - that's a pretty good price, but we're happy with what we have. The window covering we went with is maybe not exactly mid-century, but it's definitely modern and sometimes you just go with what you want. They are versitle shades - well, they go up and down. They let in a good amount of light, but not all of it. They are the color of the walls so they almost become like a wall when closed, though they are slightly transparent if the light shines a certain way.

For your flooring, you should check out that VCT tiling that's in that house on Valkeith. It may give you the effect you want.

Jason

I found several sellers on Ebay offering great mosaics for the best prices I've found. This is one of the sellers, but there are several.

http://stores.ebay.com/Glass-Mosaic-Tiles

I'm planning to do my kitchen backsplash in mosaic and the kitchen counters in the traditional laminate. Keeping my original cabinetry.

I like the tile you used Jason. I walk the same tight rope you do. I need new floor throughout the entire house. I'd love terrazo, but it's not financially feasible for me. I wish I could not have window coverings, but after a year, the Houston sun won.

[stolitx]

My tile wasn't quite as inexpensive as the tile on ebay - that's a pretty good price, but we're happy with what we have. The window covering we went with is maybe not exactly mid-century, but it's definitely modern and sometimes you just go with what you want. They are versitle shades - well, they go up and down. They let in a good amount of light, but not all of it. They are the color of the walls so they almost become like a wall when closed, though they are slightly transparent if the light shines a certain way.

For your flooring, you should check out that VCT tiling that's in that house on Valkeith. It may give you the effect you want.

Jason

I'm leaning towards VCT. I think it will hold up best, be true to the house, and frankly I really like it. And I can do it myself (with my brother's help).

I'm probably placing my mosaic tile order soon for the kitchen backsplash. Just trying to commit to the color combination. Leaning towards a white/clear, green and black combo with black laminate counters. The only bad thing about ebay is I won't see it in person until it gets here.

See you Sunday. I can't wait to see your place. I'll be at a Kinky fundraiser first. Hopefully I won't reak of cigar smoke.

Shannon