Hip Hop Community Can't Have It Both Ways On Rap

[ricco67]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/e...outlook/2852534

Oct. 18, 2004, 1:07AM

SOUNDING BOARD

Hip hop community can't have it both ways on rap

JAMES T. CAMPBELL wonders how some in the hip-hop world can condemn rapper Eminem for his negative depiction of singer Michael Jackson.

JAMES T. CAMPBELL

Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

In the the category of "you've got to be kidding

[ricco67]

The reason why I posted this article is that it was an argument that a good friend and I had a number of weeks ago in regards to Hip Hop.

considering that there was already a musical question on here, I figured it would just be a slight step further.

post on whether you agree, disagree, and everything in between.

This should be a very lively debate on here.

Ricco

[jmancuso]

frankly, i think most of hip-hop has sucked since the mid-nineties so this kinda stuff doesn't suprise me. eminem is a hack and is running out of ideas.

however, let's turn this whole issue into a racial one...yeah, that'll make things better. the hip-hop community was emimen's best friend the whole time he was busy ripping on moby (another white guy) but god forbid a black person enters his cross-hairs...

EDIT:

[ricco67]

Well, as stated in another discussion, Ihonestly believe that that Genre has been rather stagnant for several yeras. Why it seems to so popular is beyond me.

In reards to Eminem, Personally, I think he has a good amount of talent, he's not going the same way as his other contemporaries in celebrating death, drugs, and destruction. IF anything, I kinda' think of him as a Hip Hop version of Hip Hop with a bit of Bob Dylan thrown in for good measure.

Say what you want about him, but he is in a class all his own, for good or bad.

Ricco

[jmancuso]

Well, as stated in another discussion,  Ihonestly believe that  that Genre has been rather stagnant for several yeras.  Why it seems to so popular is beyond me.

In reards to Eminem,  Personally, I think he has a good amount of talent, he's not going the same way as his other contemporaries in celebrating death, drugs, and destruction.  IF anything, I kinda' think of him as a Hip Hop version of Hip Hop with a bit of Bob Dylan thrown in for good measure.

Say what you want about him, but he is in a class all his own, for good or bad.

Ricco

i do think eminem has talent but he has squandered it in my opinion but don't put him in the same breath as dylan.

[2112]

I didnt know Eminem's mother was his ex-wife.

[ricco67]

I did say a BIT of Dylan.

I'm talking about style, talent. He does do good, constructive commentary on society, he just does it in a bit differently.

As far as him squandering his talent, the only way we will truly know is if his music can stand up to the test of time in 10 years or so. Hell, alot of artists these days can't even stand the test of last year!

Ricco

[MidtownCoog]

MJ is a sex offender and child predator.

[DaTrain]

I didnt know Eminem's mother was his ex-wife.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What the hell are you talking about? Get your facts straight first. Debbie Mathers and Kim are two separate women.

Back on topic. MJ admits that he shouldn't have done what he did, but IMO he really did not appreciate Eminem mocking the King of Pop like that though. MJ has plastic surgery on his nose, Eminem plays him with his nose falling off. MJ was accused of molestation, Eminem plays him with little kids jumping on his bad. I don't know about his hair on fire though.

Eminem is a great rapper, typically the most provocative and angriest rapper ever. He does have a lot of personal problems though, when he makes references to his mama (i.e. "B***h I'ma kill you), and derogatory statements to gays. All that is pretty much why he does what he does based on whatever bad expereinces he went thru.

[ricco67]

Well, as far as I know, I don't know of MJ admiting ANYTHING so far.

But MJ has been a running joke for years, so as far as I'm concerned, he's as fair game as anyone else that goes over the top and takes themselves TOO seriously.

In regards to the hair on fire, you need to look up your history. MJ had a bit of an incident a few years ago. Those of us who are old enough to remember knew what happend and it's a fairly well known incident. So I'll leave it up to YOU to do a bit of research.

Ricco

[tamtagon]

Eminem is a very popular artist with his version of Hip-Pop; Hip-hop has been completely overshadowed by all the Hip-Pop.

MJ hasnt been proven guilty, just weird. I cannot think of a more appropriate artist than Eminem to make fun of MJ.

But in an astounding display of moral relativity, Black Entertainment Television network's president and founder Robert Johnson agreed to pull the video, saying he felt it was inappropriate to disparage a celebrity.

Disparage a celebrity? What a crock o' crap. Part of being a celebrity is accepting the good and bad things other celebrities and non-celebrities say. If you listen to the discussions on BET, you will hear a litany of celebrity bashing. Ro Johnson needs to keep it real. I for one would be relieved to hear a statement: "We like MJ, and dont appreciate anyone making fun of him, but when it's a white guy, that's the straw breaking the camel's back. We're pulling the video." There's nothing wrong with honestly expressing your views.

[MidtownCoog]

From Page Six:

MICHAEL Jackson has finally found some supporters in fellow Eminem-haters David Mays and Ray Benzino. Jackson reached out to the Source magazine owners after Eminem made fun of him in his "Just Lose It" video. The trio is said to be planning a press conference on Thursday to "urge the hip-hop community to stand by [Jackson]," a rep for the Source said. Jackson is also expected to "speak about Eminem's video which he will deem racist and dangerous to the black community and thank the Source for calling out Eminem," the rep added. The Source is also putting Jackson on the cover of its next issue.

[debmartin]

"In regards to the hair on fire, you need to look up your history. MJ had a bit of an incident a few years ago. Those of us who are old enough to remember knew what happend and it's a fairly well known incident. So I'll leave it up to YOU to do a bit of research." (quote, ricco67)"

ricco, there you go again revealing our ages. i checked with my boys (18/14) and they were also puzzled by the "hair on fire" in the video. neither of them have regards for eminem, perhaps because they still admire tupac.

i consider marshall mathers a clown and i have laughed at many of his videos like the slim shady and the one where he dresses up like bin laden. you are forgiven for mentioning him in the same sentence as dylan because i understood your context - whether you are a fan or not it is hard not to acknowledge the talent.

michaeal jackson (can't bring myself to call him mj as i am a spiderman fan) has been fodder for the press long before some here were born. like any other tabloid subject he has been his own worst enemy. as far as BET i agree with the reporter that it seems hypocritical to air the kind of video's they do and draw the line at eminem because he makes fun of jackson. i will not play the race card and say its because mathers is white, instead i think it goes much deeper, like the royal status afforded jackson as "king of pop". watching tv one day i was stunned to see how many jackson supporters remain die-hardl about him despite the accusations of child molestation. kinda like the bush supporters clinging to the last desperate days of the crumbling campaign, while old people drop out in the street waiting for flu vaccines and iraq gets bloodier by the day. funny thing is, he could easily win with such a fanatical following. i guess i can sum it up by saying, "only in america".

debmartin

[jmancuso]

yeah, i remember when the 'gloved one' caught on fire back in 84

[ricco67]

Deb,

Excellent post.

I was revealing MY age, not anyone elses, who didn't kinda' reveal it to begin with. So there.

As far as your kids not knowing about the "Hair incident" I'm not surprised. Mine uncovered my old Elvis LP's a few years ago and asked what they were.

You're right, Jackson has been a running joke ever since he took that monkey and made a song for it, and started sleeping (at that time) in an oxygen tank. You would have thunk if he had that much dedication, he would still be sleeping in one.

I agree, Mathers IS a clown, which is why he is much more Weird Al then Dylan. Seems like about 40-60% of his material is mostly a serious jab as social issues as well as (what he sees as) the total fantasy land (and huge egos) exist in the music industry.

But you have to give him cred, though. He doesn't always rap about shooting up a home, dealing drugs and whatnot. Granted, some of his subject matter is highly questionable when it comes to his lyrics, he's the South Park of Rap. He insults everyone, doesn't take himself seriously, and unlike alot of his contemporaries, actually has talent which will survive as the years goes by.

Ricco

[pineda]

kinda like the bush supporters clinging to the last desperate days of the crumbling campaign, while old people drop out in the street waiting for flu vaccines

Where did you read or hear that "old people" were dropping out in the street?

[MidtownCoog]

-- "I'm fascinated by rap and by hip-hop. I think there's a lot of poetry in it. There's a lot of anger, a lot of social energy in it. And I think you'd better listen to it pretty carefully, cause it's important." -- John Kerry, 3/29/04

[dbigtex56]

Where did you read or hear that "old people" were dropping out in the street?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was an article in the paper a few days ago about an elderly woman who had been waiting in line for four hours to get a flu shot. She passed out and hit her head on the sidewalk, and later died in a hospital.

For our younger viewers: the Michael Jackson/hair on fire incident was in 1984, while he was filming a commercial for Pepsi. The pyrotechnics got out of hand, and burning embers fell on his head, resulting in severe burns.

[ricco67]

aw man, I was hoping they'd figure it out on their own. Now you ruined it.

Ricco

[debmartin]

"But you have to give him cred, though. He doesn't always rap about shooting up a home, dealing drugs and whatnot. Granted, some of his subject matter is highly questionable when it comes to his lyrics, he's the South Park of Rap. He insults everyone, doesn't take himself seriously, and unlike alot of his contemporaries, actually has talent which will survive as the years goes by." (quote, Ricco)

ricco, i guess i was not clear about it, i do enjoy some videos by eminem, especially the slim shady and the one where he dresses up like bin laden and dances. he does poke fun at himself alot like weird al, you made a good comparison. you should hide those elvis records, least your children see what a young elvis looked like - my son recently began sporting the "king's" sideburns and i can hardly keep a straight face when he walks out of his room now. i'm scrambling for those CCR albums i have stashed somewhere so he can see what a proper hippie should look like

debmartin

[ricco67]

Well, that's kinda what I meant about calling Eminem being a BIT like Dylan. He just takes his stuff to a totally different direction and does it in a satire that is absolutely hilarious at times, but it DOES make you think on the perspective he has. He makes no apologies on HOW he views it, but simply allows you to view his side and you can make up your own mind if you wanna follow his train of thought.

Ricco

[SpaceCity]

Why can't a white guy poke fun at a black guy who is trying to be a white woman?

[tamtagon]

Why can't a white guy poke fun at a black guy who is trying to be a white woman?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hahaha