Proposition 2

[nmainguy]

Throw-away lines like "You don't have to be a right-wing Christian to get married."

are just that-throw away.

You gotta love it though-all those red family values states with high divorce rates. The hypocracy of some of the most rabid radical right wingers is just mind-blowing.

Limbaugh the doctor shopper.

Bennet the compulsive gambler.

Gingrich-oh so many divorces.

The Bush twins and Uncle Jeb's kids.

Man, I gotta tell you, one of these days that Chelsea Clinton is gonna screw up and then...POW!

[TJones]

Throw-away lines like "You don't have to be a right-wing Christian to get married."

are just that-throw away.

You gotta love it though-all those red family values states with high divorce rates. The hypocracy of some of the most rabid radical right wingers is just mind-blowing.

Limbaugh the doctor shopper.

Bennet the compulsive gambler.

Gingrich-oh so many divorces.

The Bush twins and Uncle Jeb's kids.

Man, I gotta tell you, one of these days that Chelsea Clinton is gonna screw up and then...POW!

You bet nmain, I'm sure her "oh so moral" father will teach her how to chase interns around the office with a cigar, and not let her spouse find out ! I wonder what that talk would be like ? "Look Chelsea, it is just real important that you don't get any on your dress, and if you do, Immediately take the dress to the cleaners for cryin out loud. Hell, your dear ol' Dad will even pay for the dry cleaning ." Yep, gotta teach your kids some morality, right nmain ?

When did the Bush twins get married ?

[infinite_jim]

this is plain and simple homophobia

i'm embaressed to say i live in texas

[nmainguy]

You bet nmain, I'm sure her "oh so moral" father will teach her how to chase interns around the office with a cigar, and not let her spouse find out ! I wonder what that talk would be like ? "Look Chelsea, it is just real important that you don't get any on your dress, and if you do, Immediately take the dress to the cleaners for cryin out loud. Hell, your dear ol' Dad will even pay for the dry cleaning ." Yep, gotta teach your kids some morality, right nmain ?

When did the Bush twins get married ?

...and yet the Clintons remained married to continue raising a daughter who apparently has never used a fake ID to get booz, been busted [like Jenna] for underage drinking, or provided us with the whacky antics of Jeb's kids.

It's going to be fun, TJones, watching you and yours try to defend this increasingly corrupt and inept administration and their fake family values for the next 2+ years.

Hey! Here's an idea: Blame it ALL on the Clintons!...What's that you say? Hasn't been working out for you so far, you say? Hmmmm.....

...and check out this site http://www.hereinreality.com/gonewild.html

oh those crazy Bushkins...gotta love em'.

[sevfiv]

not that this is the perfect representation, but since we are talking about good 'ol w:

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob1.htm

[Parrothead]

Has anyone taken the population of MA and VT into consideration in this study? Just curious.

Hey sev, you know what the best part about George W is? He doesn't run his Presidency based on polls. He actually has a backbone and sticks with his decisions, unlike the backpedaling liberals in Washington.

I feel a little like Daniel in the lion's den. ...You know, from the Bible (that silly old book that 189 million people in the United States uses to guide their lives.)?

Just kidding!! I couldn't help myself I truly enjoy being just about the only Republican on this board

[TJones]

...and yet the Clintons remained married to continue raising a daughter who apparently has never used a fake ID to get booz, been busted [like Jenna] for underage drinking, or provided us with the whacky antics of Jeb's kids.

It's going to be fun, TJones, watching you and yours try to defend this increasingly corrupt and inept administration and their fake family values for the next 2+ years.

Hey! Here's an idea: Blame it ALL on the Clintons!...What's that you say? Hasn't been working out for you so far, you say? Hmmmm.....

I'd say it's been working pretty well, 2 WON elections. No matter what George does, we know you won't approve.

Quick question, would you stay with your significant other if they had cheated on you say 6 or 7 times ?

I don't have to defend George, the people have spoken, he has been elected. Ok, Ok, so he was up against some poor choices you guys made, hopefully you learned something from it. He is the best man for the job though. Might I ask what you have lost since Bush has become President ? Have you taken a pay cut, did you lose a job, Did you lose your healthcare coverage, Did your taxes go up ? I am just trying to understand your point of view, and why so much anger for this man.

[west20th]

Has anyone taken the population of MA and VT into consideration in this study? Just curious.

What does the population matter? The study was based on the rate of divorces not the total number of divorces.

[RedScare]

The population of the states is irrelevant. However, the predominant RELIGION in the states is very important. Catholic doctrine discourages divorce. Baptists, on the other hand, have no such aversion to divorce. Look at the comparative ranking of Louisiana versus the states that surround it. In fact, if I remember correctly, the first Protestant church broke away from the Catholic Church specifically because divorce was illegal.

[YakuzaIce]

Surprise! The only state that recognizes same-sex marriage has the nation's lowest divorce rate. Per Divorce Magazine here's the rankings (listed from lowest to highest rates):

1 Massachusetts

2 Connecticut

3 New Jersey

4 Rhode Island

...

Just to let people know (who didn't check) this list is from '94. I found data from '04, but it would take a while to make it into a list.

[bachanon]

fyi. everyone posting claims that right wing christians were the only ones voting for prop 2 should check out the stats. african americans and hispanics, generally democratic leaning voters, voted overwhelmingly for prop 2. the chronicle had an article this past week. i'll look for the link and edit my post. homophobia is not only a republican right wing trait. it's worse than that.

link

Gay marriage ban crossed political lines, analysts say

By POLLY ROSS HUGHES and R.G. RATCLIFFE

Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau

AUSTIN - Blacks and Hispanics who traditionally vote Democratic strongly backed the state's gay marriage ban at the ballot box this week, sometimes outpolling Republicans, analysts said Wednesday.

[nmainguy]

I'd say it's been working pretty well, 2 WON elections. No matter what George does, we know you won't approve.

Quick question, would you stay with your significant other if they had cheated on you say 6 or 7 times ?

I don't have to defend George, the people have spoken, he has been elected. Ok, Ok, so he was up against some poor choices you guys made, hopefully you learned something from it. He is the best man for the job though. Might I ask what you have lost since Bush has become President ? Have you taken a pay cut, did you lose a job, Did you lose your healthcare coverage, Did your taxes go up ? I am just trying to understand your point of view, and why so much anger for this man

Really? If I remember right, he lost the 2000 general election to Al Gore. He was selected by a Supreme Court stunted Electoral College. But that's just a part of our flawed system.

If my other cheated on me? I don't do hypothetical.

I've lost nothing so far while Bush has been in office. [if you don't count being denied the same rights straight people enjoy] I enjoy a generous health care plan and have gotten a tax-cut on the backs of-probably-guys like you. I have no anger for him. I don't know him. "I cannot hate he that I not know" I have anger and disgust at his policies. I'm pissed that our greatest treasures are being killed off almost daily in Iraq. Other than that-yeah-things are swell...Wally.

[TJones]

Here is some light reading for you nmain.

http://www.alamo-girl.com/0452.htm

No, you can't count not have same rights straight people enjoy, because you didn't have them under Clinton either, and just the thought wasn't even entertained by his regime, I mean Administration.

How come no one on the Democrats side got upset about Mogadishu(sp) or Somalia ? have you seen Blackhawk Down ? How come no one ever got upset over Clinton lobbing a few Missiles into Bagdad in Dec.'98 ? I hate that American forces have to be the "police of the world", I do want our troops back, let's just bring em all back and put them to work protecting us in the airports and the borders, and bus terminals looking for terrorists. it sounds so simple, but for some reason, we just don't do it.

Wait I'm way off-topic here !!! sorry, I want you to have the same rights nmain, this is coming from a Republican. I don't know what it could possibly hurt if you got married. You won't affect my life one bit, I just want an invite when it happens.

[bachanon]

didn't our "flawed" system elect bill clinton twice with less than 50% of the electorate?

[sevfiv]

Hey sev, you know what the best part about George W is? He doesn't run his Presidency based on polls. He actually has a backbone and sticks with his decisions, unlike the backpedaling liberals in Washington.

as far as polls, i was just providing information.

as far as W, i might agree, that probably is the best thing he has going for him.

and about "backpedaling liberals," well, some call it changing views when new information is presented, versus being a stubborn hardass.

either way, party politics' time is over. if this country is going to pull together and take care of REAL issues, those democrats and republicans (and "liberals" and conservatives") need to pull some heads out of asses and see the real world for what it is, and go from there.

i say one starting point would be to get rid of "business" men in the white house.

[TJones]

If my other cheated on me? I don't do hypothetical.

I don't think Clinton stopped to do a hypothetical either, I don't think he has ever stopped for one minute to think about his wife, and the embarrassment he might cause, if he got caught and then lied about it. You think that might be the case Beav ?

[west20th]

fyi. everyone posting claims that right wing christians were the only ones voting for prop 2 should check out the stats.

I don't think anyone claimed that only RWC's were the only ones that voted for prop 2. They were behind this hateful, bigoted measure however.

I don't think Clinton stopped to do a hypothetical either, I don't think he has ever stopped for one minute to think about his wife, and the embarrassment he might cause, if he got caught and then lied about it. You think that might be the case Beav ?

There you go with your "Bush may have done this but Look what Clinton did" nonsense. Is Bush so totally indefensible that you have to deflect attention away from his incompetent leadership by constantly beating the "well look what Clinton did" drum? And you have the nerve to think some of us "hate" Bush? What do you call constantly harping on someone who has been out of office for 5 years? The big old bad Clinton Boogeyman is gone. Get over it and try to defend Bush based on his merits rather than attacking others to defend him.

[TJones]

I don't think anyone claimed that only RWC's were the only ones that voted for prop 2. They were behind this hateful, bigoted measure however.

There you go with your "Bush may have done this but Look what Clinton did" nonsense. Is Bush so totally indefensible that you have to deflect attention away from his incompetent leadership by constantly beating the "well look what Clinton did" drum? And you have the nerve to think some of us "hate" Bush? What do you call constantly harping on someone who has been out of office for 5 years? The big old bad Clinton Boogeyman is gone. Get over it and try to defend Bush based on his merits rather than attacking others to defend him.

What are you gonna tell me, Bush "lied" about Iraq, that broken record is unfounded, he had the same information your beloved Dem. Senators had, your Senators made the same conclusions, as Bush, and even demanded a special session to debate it, so they could get on the "we need Saddam out !" bandwagon. So predictable. You jump on at the last second, because, if Iraq is indeed liberated and democracy reigns in Iraq, then all the Dems. that opposed it have egg on their face. Go ahead now west, this is the part where you say I'm wrong. BTW the only reason Clinton gets brought up is because you folks think the man is a saint, and you always want to impeach Bush for "lying" when you guys pleaded with us to leave Clinton alone when he lied under oath about his conduct in the oral, excuse me, oval office.

[westguy]

How come no one on the Democrats side got upset about Mogadishu(sp) or Somalia ? have you seen Blackhawk Down ?

Because Bush Sr. sent them there in the first place?

[nmainguy]

Because Bush Sr. sent them there in the first place?

Damn, west! Ya beat me to it.

I think you hit a nerve with TJ. He just can't get that Clinton monkey off his back.

You will never hear any of these die-hard Bushies say a critical word against Bush.

When they can't defend the ineptness and incompetence of this administration, they resort to attacks on an ex-president who has been out of office for 5 years. They all end up sounding like your common right wing radio talk show host.

It has become redundant.

It has become boring.

I'm content to sit back and watch these guys re-arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

didn't our "flawed" system elect bill clinton twice with less than 50% of the electorate?

You may be onto something there but the fact is, Clinton was the guy who got the most votes both times.

Bush did not.

[west20th]

What are you gonna tell me, Bush "lied" about Iraq, that broken record is unfounded, he had the same information your beloved Dem. Senators had, your Senators made the same conclusions, as Bush, and even demanded a special session to debate it, so they could get on the "we need Saddam out !" bandwagon. So predictable. You jump on at the last second, because, if Iraq is indeed liberated and democracy reigns in Iraq, then all the Dems. that opposed it have egg on their face. Go ahead now west, this is the part where you say I'm wrong. BTW the only reason Clinton gets brought up is because you folks think the man is a saint, and you always want to impeach Bush for "lying" when you guys pleaded with us to leave Clinton alone when he lied under oath about his conduct in the oral, excuse me, oval office.

Uh no. I don't think I brought up Iraq in this thread. Got a guilty consience about your boy George? What is with this rambling about Irag and Sadaam? Anyone bring this up? Different thread, different day. No I don't think Clinton is a saint, try not to put words in my mouth please. Don't assume that you know what I am thinking. And what is with the angry reply? Why so angry? Always defending Bush getting frustrating?

And by the way you still are not defending Bush. You are attacking myself, the Dem's, Clinton.....et al. Tell us why Bush is right. Tell us why he is such a great president. It is not because the Dem's and Clinton are BAAAAAAD!!!!!

[Jeebus]

The Proposition 2 thread is dead.

[west20th]

The Proposition 2 thread is dead.

Why so? It has been voted on but this issue is not going to go away.

[TJones]

Uh no. I don't think I brought up Iraq in this thread. Got a guilty consience about your boy George? What is with this rambling about Irag and Sadaam? Anyone bring this up? Different thread, different day. No I don't think Clinton is a saint, try not to put words in my mouth please. Don't assume that you know what I am thinking. And what is with the angry reply? Why so angry? Always defending Bush getting frustrating?

And by the way you still are not defending Bush. You are attacking myself, the Dem's, Clinton.....et al. Tell us why Bush is right. Tell us why he is such a great president. It is not because the Dem's and Clinton are BAAAAAAD!!!!!

I'm still looking for the "angry" part in my post, nope, don't see any caps to emphasize yelling in any part of it. Wait I see it, oh...no that is your post, sorry, . Why would I be angry talking about a good guy who doesn't cheat on his wife, and does what he says he is gonna do, and has a backbone to stand up to haters, and finish a job he knows has to be done ? Now you are being a hypocrite, assuming to know what I'm thinking, amazing. Can you enlighten me then, since I am off base, about why you denounce my boy Bush ?

Bottom line, I don't have to defend George on anything, I don't see that he has done anything wrong, what issues do you think I should be defending him on ? Btw, I promise, you'll be the first to know when I get angry . Really, what is the use of being mad at someone on the internet, I'll probably never meet you face to face, and we can have our civil debates right here. Peace and Love brother, Peace and Love.

The point about Clinton is that yes, he has been out for 5 years, the sad part is, that when he was in office, the Dems. never thought he did anything wrong, he was caught redhanded, and you all gave him a pass, or west, did you think that Clinton lying to his wife and lying about the affair under oath was wrong ? I'm not trying to harp, I would just love to hear one Dem. say Clinton was wrong for cheating on his wife and lying under oath. I know that couldn't possibly happen though.

[nmainguy]

The point about Clinton is that yes, he has been out for 5 years, the sad part is, that when he was in office, the Dems. never thought he did anything wrong, he was caught redhanded, and you all gave him a pass, or west, did you think that Clinton lying to his wife and lying about the affair under oath was wrong ? I'm not trying to harp, I would just love to hear one Dem. say Clinton was wrong for cheating on his wife and lying under oath. I know that couldn't possibly happen though.

...didn't someone post redundant and boring before? I think it was me?

[west20th]

I'm still looking for the "angry" part in my post, nope, don't see any caps to emphasize yelling in any part of it. Wait I see it, oh...no that is your post, sorry, . Why would I be angry talking about a good guy who doesn't cheat on his wife, and does what he says he is gonna do, and has a backbone to stand up to haters, and finish a job he knows has to be done ? Now you are being a hypocrite, assuming to know what I'm thinking, amazing. Can you enlighten me then, since I am off base, about why you denounce my boy Bush ?

Bottom line, I don't have to defend George on anything, I don't see that he has done anything wrong, what issues do you think I should be defending him on ? Btw, I promise, you'll be the first to know when I get angry . Really, what is the use of being mad at someone on the internet, I'll probably never meet you face to face, and we can have our civil debates right here. Peace and Love brother, Peace and Love.

The point about Clinton is that yes, he has been out for 5 years, the sad part is, that when he was in office, the Dems. never thought he did anything wrong, he was caught redhanded, and you all gave him a pass, or west, did you think that Clinton lying to his wife and lying about the affair under oath was wrong ? I'm not trying to harp, I would just love to hear one Dem. say Clinton was wrong for cheating on his wife and lying under oath. I know that couldn't possibly happen though.

OK Ok. I shouldn't have assumed you were angry. When you started throwing a bunch of things out there that had nothing to do with the topic (Irag, Saddaam something about me bandwagon jumping) I thought it was a sign of anger. My bad. Anyway, defending someone by tearing someone else down and your constant obsession with all things Clinton just seems odd to me.

[TJones]

OK Ok. I shouldn't have assumed you were angry. When you started throwing a bunch of things out there that had nothing to do with the topic (Irag, Saddaam something about me bandwagon jumping) I thought it was a sign of anger. My bad. Anyway, defending someone by tearing someone else down and your constant obsession with all things Clinton just seems odd to me.

We were talking about why Dems. bash Bush, the only thing I ever hear Dems. say is," HE lied about Iraq." I am just waiting to hear what else. And it wasn't you on the bandwagon, I didn't mean to make you feel that way., the Dem. Senators are guilty of that. Now, would you answer my question about if you felt bad about the lying under oath, by the Ex-Pres ?

...didn't someone post redundant and boring before? I think it was me?

You are right, it is redundant, if you can answer my questions about the ex-pres. I will shut the hell up about it.

[sevfiv]

presidents f*cking around is nothing new (although imagining it through history is kinda nauseating )

and the proposition 2 thread is dead - as in we're not discussing propostion 2 any longer...

[Jeebus]

Why so? It has been voted on but this issue is not going to go away.

Because no one is talking about Proposition 2 anymore. Thank God (or whoever one may believe in) that this thread is already in the "Way Off Topic" catagory.

[west20th]

We were talking about why Dems. bash Bush, the only thing I ever hear Dems. say is," HE lied about Iraq." I am just waiting to hear what else. And it wasn't you on the bandwagon, I didn't mean to make you feel that way., the Dem. Senators are guilty of that. Now, would you answer my question about if you felt bad about the lying under oath, by the Ex-Pres ?

You are right, it is redundant, if you can answer my questions about the ex-pres. I will shut the hell up about it.

Of course I wasn't happy about his lying under oath. He deserved a slap on the wrist and a stern "bad boy" and that's what he got. Can we close that door now?

Because no one is talking about Proposition 2 anymore. Thank God (or whoever one may believe in) that this thread is already in the "Way Off Topic" catagory.

It's really hard to keep political topics "on topic".