Infrastructure New

[Guest Plastic]

The US has several forms of infrsstructure. Powerlines ,gas piplelines, oil pipelines,phonelines, cable lines,telecom lines,

water pipelines,raods,highways,tunnels,bridges,seaways,and railroads.

It's beeen a long times since we had any major infrastructure improvements. What things do we need to improve with our infrastructure? Gov.Perry is proposing the Trans-Texas Corridor which sound pretty good but it doesn't go to the center of the cities. We definetly need more highways and ones with greater vehicle capacity. But what new types of things do we need.

One place we might need one is information. The internet has come aong and so very greatly increased our need for datatransport. Add cellphones and pagers and you've got a logistical nightmare. Before DSL downloading video and audio was a nightmare. I don't know if the problem's completelysolved but more and more people are logging on. WIth the increas of pagers ,fax machines,and email do we need another type of transport. All that currently travls down traditional phone lines. SHould we wait a few decades or improve the data netwrok before it becomes all but clogged.

What I'm suggesting is have line for phone and cellphone traffic and another for data(internet,pagers,fax machines,internet ,etc. May sound a bit uneccesary but here in Houston we had to add another area code because of all the ceelll phone, pager, fax, and internet devices using phone numbers.

[bkjones98]

I wish we had passenger trains like in the northeast and Europe. I would love to be able to just get on a train and take it to Austin for a weekend trip.

[Guest Plastic]

Well we are with the Trans Texas Corridor............cept it won't go into the centers of the big cities.

[RedScare]

The TTC won't go into the cities, but the bullet trains will...if they ever get built. The plan would be to run from the city center to the nearest TTC, and then on to the next city, where it would leave the TTC to go into that city center.

Last week, I saw an article (old) in the Bryan Eagle about the "Texas T-Bone". It was a proposed rail layout that would run from San Antonio, through Austin, Killeen, Waco and Dallas, with a spur to Fort Worth. The "T-Bone" would run from Killeen through B-CS and on to Houston and Galveston. All in all, it seemed to be an efficient route to connect most of the big population centers.

[Guest Plastic]

Well if they are gonna run thr train through major cities that's good. Liek on the Katy they're building HOT lanes so witht eh "Bullet" Train running down it it'll be like the TTC.

[gto250us]

The TTC won't go into the cities, but the bullet trains will...if they ever get built. The plan would be to run from the city center to the nearest TTC, and then on to the next city, where it would leave the TTC to go into that city center.

Last week, I saw an article (old) in the Bryan Eagle about the "Texas T-Bone". It was a proposed rail layout that would run from San Antonio, through Austin, Killeen, Waco and Dallas, with a spur to Fort Worth. The "T-Bone" would run from Killeen through B-CS and on to Houston and Galveston. All in all, it seemed to be an efficient route to connect most of the big population centers.

the bullet train issue has been around forever here in Texas. It will never happen. The railroads will never invest in it. They make too much money with freight. They do not have to spend as much on capital improvements to roadbeds, stations, cars, etc. to ship coal and grain. even during the hay day of rail, 1880-1940's railroads made all their money from shipping freight not people.

I agree that it would be great to be able to get on a train and get to anywhere, but I don't see it. My office looks out onto the Amtrak station and I can see when the biweekly train gets in. Ususally it is never less than 4-5 hours late.

[uncertaintraveler]

An excellent trans-Texas rail system will also never happen because Southwest Airlines has, and will probably continue to, lobby against its creation. A superfast, low-hassle way to get from Houston to Dallas (by rail) pretty much kills one of Southwest's major profit generators...so we all know SW won't let that happen without a fight.

[MidtownCoog]

If high speed rail were a viable (profitable) option we would already have it.

But it ain't, so we don't.

Who wants to shell out multi-millons when the risk is so high?

Does the Chunnel ring a bell?

[gto250us]

If high speed rail were a viable (profitable) option we would already have it.

But it ain't, so we don't.

Who wants to shell out multi-millons when the risk is so high?

Does the Chunnel ring a bell?

The Chunnel is a great way to travel. Unfortunatley it is a crummy way to make money, but that is not a problem to socialist governments.

[editor]

The Chunnel is a great way to travel. Unfortunatley it is a crummy way to make money, but that is not a problem to socialist governments.

How is having the government build a rail line any more socialist than having the government spend billions on expanding the Katy Freeway?

[texas911]

How much does it cost to build one mile of Metro rail? And you guys want to have bullet trains to Austin and Dallas? The bullet trains have to be totally free of crossing, so its cost of building is outrageously expensive. Can you imagine a 150mph train with crossing guards in the countryside? Some redneck will see the arms go done, look both ways and see no train and go around only to be destroyed my the bullet train!

[Guest Plastic]

We can find a way to justify spending $200 billion on a war but none for transprting citizens.......come one.

THe payoff will be more than worth the cost. President Nixon or was it Johnson was smart by spending money to make the Interstate Highway system. It costed $70 billion? But the time saved and othe ability of freight to travel is more than worth it. The nation wouldn't be the same without it.

[Saddleman]

You've got to be kidding me. Trains compete well with planes on trips of less than 250 miles. That's the reason Southwest (and to a lesser extent Continental and American) did every thing they could to kill the Texas TGV. Southwest knew the trains would have severely hurt their business. In their actions against the trains, Southwest proved the point that the trains would have been very competive and viable. Why shell out HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars on highways and their continous expansions. Or airports and their continous expansions. How much does it cost to build hundreds of thousands of miles of highways? They're becoming so damn expensive that the government doesn't want to have anything to do with them (i.e. toll roads). And if you are so worried about people being killed by the trains, then why aren't you worried about people being killed on all those highways or on those planes? The way to solve the Southwest/bullet train problem is for Southwest (and other airlines) to get into the train business.

[Guest Plastic]

Never quite understood why you would take a fullsized jetplane on a trip to San Antonio.

[abarr2001]

However the local or state government decides to build (if they build) rail, it needs to be grade seperated from the rest of traffic. Not making mass transit seperate from street traffic will greatly increase trip times negating some of the benefits of mass transit e.g. metrorail.

Something I'm curious about is why monorail is not considered as a mass transit option. Is it that much more expensive than light rail? I know Tokyo and places in Australia employee monorail. Even Disney world has a monorail. It was proposed for Houston back in the 1990's but was shot down. Could anyone please illuminate on this subject?

[MaxConcrete]

Something I'm curious about is why monorail is not considered as a mass transit option. Is it that much more expensive than light rail? I know Tokyo and places in Australia employee monorail. Even Disney world has a monorail. It was proposed for Houston back in the 1990's but was shot down. Could anyone please illuminate on this subject?

I don't have exact numbers but you can get an idea of the high cost by checking recent developments on the Seattle monorail project. A web search will yield plenty of info but here are a couple I found

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/25/1428218&from=rss

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0539...ws_monorail.php

The overall cost of the 14-mile line exploded to the range of $7-11 billion mainly due to high interest payments. (I don't know the net present value of that cash flow, see second link above). Right now the city of Seattle is trying to scale it back due to cost issues.

The Las Vegas monorail was also very expensive - I'm thinking multiple hundreds of millions of dollars per mile. Compare that to $40-50 million per mile for light rail. Once again, do a web search for exact numbers. The Las Vegas project was also shut down for a long time due to technical issues. That project is mostly or entirely privately funded.

So here's the bottom line

1. Monorail is very costly

2. Monorail is technically risky, and politicians hate risk when they can use a proven technology (ie light rail)

3. There is not a large industry in monorail which drives up cost due to low volume. Each project is more like a one-of-a-kind attraction and hence more expensive. Monorail remains rare compared to other forms of transit.

[C2H]

does anyone know the status of the rail plans for Houston as of right now? Did they totally kill the hopes of having monorail or possibly a mini subway like Dallas's, or is Houston gonna get the butt end of the stick and only get at -grade BRT vehicles with no rail extentions?

[YakuzaIce]

I will just copy a post of mine from another thread.

"Umm no, the current rail line is going to stay, and future rail lines will have rails installed and covered. BRT will ride on the path (somewhat similar to LRT, slightly reduced capacity, and still technically a bus). When ridership demands it, the lines will be uncovered, overhead wires put in, and trains will ride on the tracks. This was done to speed up construction of the lines. Oh and I almost forgot to mention the line from UH to uptown will be LRT."

If you want more info read the Bill White changes rail plan thread. (it is something like that)

[Guest Plastic]

NOOO no more light rail. ANd if they do light rail it has to be above ground.

[YakuzaIce]

why above ground?

[kjb434]

LRT is primarily for Urban use. It doesn't need to go fast. The purpose is to move a higher volume of people than cars.

Plastic, you are thinking of commuter rail with long range travel in the Metro.

Elevated rail defeats the purpost of LRT. Sure, portions of it can be elevated for certain reasons, but mostly it should be at grade.

[pineda]

FIGHT AGAINST NORTH FREEWAY EXPANSION OFF HOLD

Hopes that plans to widen I-45 in the Houston region would be delayed for more than a year were dashed when it was announced that the Texas Department of Transportation will present a revised plan at the Houston-Galveston Area Council on two dates in October.

H-GAC's Technical Advisory Committee will consider the plan on Friday, Oct 21 and the regional Transportation Policy Council will consider it on Friday, Oct 28.

The Transportation Policy Council must approve the TxDOT plan before the state can go forward. The Technical Advisory Committee evaluates projects and recommends approval or disapproval to the TPC. H-GAC staff has already approved the new plan.

The revised TxDOT proposal recommends moving four proposed managed lanes from I-45 to the Hardy Toll Road.

TxDOT has also increased the estimated cost of the project from $404 million to $2.1 billion or $70 million per mile for the 30-mile project.

The complete TxDOT revised report is available at <http://www.dot.state.tx.us/mis/mis.htm>.

Public comments will be accepted at the beginning of each meeting.

The Greater Houston Preservation Association is encouraging concerned residents to attend the meetings and sign up to speak. Historic neighborhoods impacted by the project include Woodland Heights, Brooke Smith Addition, Grota Homestead, First Ward, and Near Northside. Both meetings begin at 9:30 am at the Houston-Galveston Area Council, 3555 Timmons Lane, in the Greenway Plaza area.

[Guest Plastic]

WHy elevated.............helloe have you seen what' happened on Main Street.

Houston drivers just aren't readdy for trains. Elevated tracks make safe for no collisions with cars. It also doesn't have to stop for traffic lights and doesn't hold up traffic.

[nmainguy]

WHy elevated.............helloe have you seen what' happened on Main Street.

Houston drivers just aren't readdy for trains. Elevated tracks make safe for no collisions with cars. It also doesn't have to stop for traffic lights and doesn't hold up traffic.

Maybe Houston drivers would serve themselves better if they obeyed NO LEFT TURN signs, traffic signals, etc. along the LRT. It works pretty well for me. I believe all but one of the 100+ accidents has been caused by motorists. Blaming it on a train is just lazy thinking-easier to blame than to take responsibility for your lousy driving habits.

[kjb434]

^^

hey

nmainguy, i couldn't agree with you more. Kind of scary.

[texas911]

We've already discussed how bad Houston drivers are. They are to blame for all those train accidents.

[Downtowner]

Maybe Houston drivers would serve themselves better if they obeyed NO LEFT TURN signs, traffic signals, etc. along the LRT. It works pretty well for me. I believe all but one of the 100+ accidents has been caused by motorists. Blaming it on a train is just lazy thinking-easier to blame than to take responsibility for your lousy driving habits.

Here, Here. I couldn't agree more.

[Guest Plastic]

Regardless if the train wasn't there there would have been no accidents.

[Saddleman]

If the cars hadn't been there, then there would have been no accidents.

[kjb434]

It's simple that the drivers of the cars are not paying attention.

So many cities around this country and world have a light rail in the same form as us. They don't have the accidents like we do.

Hell, Berlin even has a LRT that passes right through a pedestrian square with nothing to separate it from the people. They don't seem to have a problem either with the train running over people.