New Trophy Tower?

[nativehoustonion]

Fountain Place is very nice, the best building in Dallas.  it should not be covered up.

[Dallascaper]

Wow...one sarcastic post by SMF, and a few insecure Houston fanboys get in a tizzy over the possibility of Dallas getting a supertall.  What are these people going to do if Dallas actually builds one?  Have a stroke?  What if Dallas gets three? I would visit this site just for the show.

 

I must admit, I enjoy visiting architecture sites, but we certainly are an eccentric bunch...getting our panties in a wad over things most people couldn't care less about.  We're like a bunch of Trekkies at a convention arguing to the death over whether the Enterprise can defeat the Battlestar Galactica.  LOL!

[nativehoustonion]

It will not happened, even New York could not build something in that magnitude, only the Trade Center which building 2 is on hold.  Building 3 just started.  So Dallas is going to build these supertalls?  They could not build that ugly Cowgirls stadium downtown.  It is in wonderful Arlington.  I want the renderings and see the cranes.

[tigereye]

Wow...one sarcastic post by SMF, and a few insecure Houston fanboys get in a tizzy over the possibility of Dallas getting a supertall. What are these people going to do if Dallas actually builds one? Have a stroke? What if Dallas gets three? I would visit this site just for the show.

I must admit, I enjoy visiting architecture sites, but we certainly are an eccentric bunch...getting our panties in a wad over things most people couldn't care less about. We're like a bunch of Trekkies at a convention arguing to the death over whether the Enterprise can defeat the Battlestar Galactica. LOL!

Well I counted 3 posts from SMF, including 1 post proclaiming Dallas is better than NYC.

But I understand if your perception is a bit skewed from the reality. That seems to be a common trait with Dallas folk.

Edited October 26, 2014 by tigereye

[cloud713]

Wow...one sarcastic post by SMF, and a few insecure Houston fanboys get in a tizzy over the possibility of Dallas getting a supertall. What are these people going to do if Dallas actually builds one? Have a stroke? What if Dallas gets three? I would visit this site just for the show.

I must admit, I enjoy visiting architecture sites, but we certainly are an eccentric bunch...getting our panties in a wad over things most people couldn't care less about. We're like a bunch of Trekkies at a convention arguing to the death over whether the Enterprise can defeat the Battlestar Galactica. LOL!

Insecure Houston fanboys? How is anything I said insecure.. I was just talking logically. None of this makes sense for Dallas.

[JasnoDTX]

Perot's 1.75 acre site is zoned for 1.5 mil sq feet. That would put it in the neighborhood of the new 50-story Chevron Tower here, which is for 1.7 mil square ft on 2 acres.

 

Wrong..

 

 

Its zoned for an excess if 1.5mil sq ft

With NO height limit.

 

I just got off a 12 hour shift. Going to bed. You can look up the link for yourself.

Edited October 26, 2014 by JasnoDTX

[H-TownChris]

I have already purchased my condo on the north side of one of the 80 story towers so that I will have a view of the Dallas skyline and the other super tall tower going up on the other side of down town. I suggest you all do the same because these units will go very quickly. I'm kind of surprised there are any units left in this glorious Turkish project. Dallas is better than New York. Nobody's moving to Houston anymore.

All Houston has is a 40 story tower while Dallas has two 80 story towers and two 60 story towers being built as we speak. It's time Houston faces reality and accepts the fact that Dallas has the tallest towers in Texas right now and there is nothing you can do about it except drool.

We have 2 supertalls built already and have the 3rd tallest skyline in the U.S and with two supertalls in Dallas pipeline, I doubt you can reach us.

[tigereye]

I have already purchased my condo on the north side of one of the 80 story towers so that I will have a view of the Dallas skyline and the other super tall tower going up on the other side of down town. I suggest you all do the same because these units will go very quickly. I'm kind of surprised there are any units left in this glorious Turkish project. Dallas is better than New York. (lololololol) Nobody's moving to Houston anymore.

All Houston has is a 40 story tower while Dallas has two 80 story towers and two 60 story towers being built as we speak. It's time Houston faces reality and accepts the fact that Dallas has the tallest towers in Texas right now and there is nothing you can do about it except drool.

This project is 100% assured! Nothing can stop it! It' s practically built already! Everyone in Houston is jealous because these super tall towers are absolutely, 100% certain to be built! There is no chance this will not happen! I'm going to get a condo there and send Houston a post card saying "KISS MY A...." Dallas is unstoppable! Houston sits stagnant.

In all my years of observing major projects being proposed, NEVER have I seen a project so well thought out, so well funded and such well established, seasoned developers make such a convincing statement to the media which leaves no doubt as to what the future holds for land they don't yet own.

I'll just quote SMF's crazy, likely-drug-fueled rants to post my sincere thoughts on this.

Proposals for new towers and actual new towers under construction are 2 entirely different things. Both Houston & Dallas should know this fact very well from all the skyscrapers that died on the drawing board in Texas during the Oil Bust. And considering oil prices are falling currently, you'd think you'll see jitters instead jubilation (as exhibited by SMF) on these threads...

Considering the timing and real estate makeup of the DFW area, a rumored proposal for 2 60-story & 2 80-story towers, a project literally the size & scope of the new WTC complex in Lower Manhattan that's taken 15 years to build (and is still not complete), in a central business district with current +%20 vacancy rate doesn't seem very likely to obtain financing necessary to become a reality. And let's not forget this is from a Turkish developer that has a history of failed projects OP even referenced. For me, Perot's Gateway project is the one to watch. But considering the previously stated facts, it doesnt seem likely to leap off the drawing board in the near term without a major tenant signed.

If I'm wrong and these do become reality, you'll have the Lone Star equivalent of the Miami skyline - empty shells. Considering the lesson being learned there, I don't see that mistake being made by banks or developers a second time, especially in a locale not as attractive as South Beach.

Edited October 26, 2014 by tigereye

[tigereye]

Wrong..

Its zoned for an excess if 1.5mil sq ft

With NO height limit.

I just got off a 12 hour shift. Going to bed. You can look up the link for yourself.

I didn't say limited to or below 1.5 mil sq ft. Go to bed. It's clearly effecting your reading comprehension skills.

[H-TownChris]

I didn't say limited to or below 1.5 mil sq ft. Go to bed. It's clearly effecting your reading comprehension skills.

LMAO

[H-TownChris]

I lovve the fact that SMF thinks that Dallas is better than Houston. Yea, right, in your dreams.

[tigereye]

I lovve the fact that SMF thinks that Dallas is better than Houston. Yea, right, in your dreams.

I don't really care. It's an old topic that will begin to die off and fall on deaf ears as transplants invade both cities.

The one I get a chuckle about is "Dallas is better than New York." Don't mean to offend but every city in Texas COMBINED wouldn't top NYC.

Edited October 26, 2014 by tigereye

[cloud713]

Guys.. Might want to check this out.

May want to check that sarcasm detector cloud.

I fell for it at first because it wasn't as clear in his original post, but SMF isn't serious.

[nativehoustonion]

I think he fell off the balcony!

[Dallaz]

The project is making international news

http://m.haberturk.com/emlak/haber/1003398-dallasin-en-uzun-gokdelenine-turk-imzasi

[D F W]

Wow! This thread is moving so fast I'm about 20 post behind. I'm not here to argue about Dallas getting the next tallest in Texas but I know that eventually it will whether it is from these proposals or any other in the future.

The real delima for Houston is due to the FAA height restriction of 75 stories. You can build bigger but it would be labeled hazardous. The cost of insuring a building the FAA labels hazardous skyrockets. The JP Morgan Chase building was suppose to be 80 stories but cut 5 off to keep it under the limit. Some of the major factors is the direction and length of the runways at Hobby Airport are situated...which differ from the way they are at Dallas Love Field Airport. So the end result in this matter is that downtown Houston is more restricted by the FAA than Downtown Dallas.. Most of the western half of Downtown Dallas has no limits giving the opportunity for Downtown Dallas to build higher than Houston in the future.

[cloud713]

Wow! This thread is moving so fast I'm about 20 post behind. I'm not here to argue about Dallas getting the next tallest in Texas but I know that eventually it will whether it is from these proposals or any other in the future.

The real delima for Houston is due to the FAA height restriction of 75 stories. You can build bigger but it would be labeled hazardous. The cost of insuring a building the FAA labels hazardous skyrockets. The JP Morgan Chase building was suppose to be 80 stories but cut 5 off to keep it under the limit. Some of the major factors is the direction and length of the runways at Hobby Airport are situated...which differ from the way they are at Dallas Love Field Airport. So the end result in this matter is that downtown Houston is more restricted by the FAA than Downtown Dallas.. Most of the western half of Downtown Dallas has no limits giving the opportunity for Downtown Dallas to build higher than Houston in the future.

Lol... You believe that urban legend about Houston but not the urban legend about Dallas? Edited October 26, 2014 by cloud713

[cloud713]

The project is making international news

http://m.haberturk.com/emlak/haber/1003398-dallasin-en-uzun-gokdelenine-turk-imzasi

Is it talking about how ridiculous this project is?

[Dallaz]

To be honest, none of us are real estate experts. So no one can say it cannot happen with 100% accuracy.

[cloud713]

To be honest, none of us are real estate experts. So no one can say it cannot happen with 100% accuracy.

True, it would just be a very poor financial decision as it's clearly not needed.

[Dallaz]

True, it would just be a very poor financial decision as it's clearly not needed.

To say it's not needed is a stretch. Is it a little excessive? Maybe. Can it be done? who knows. But time will tell if this is legit or not.

[Subdude]

Certain topics draw the trolls like catnip...best not to feed them so it isn't necessary to close the topic.

 

 

 

[Dallaz]

The project is making international news

http://m.haberturk.com/emlak/haber/1003398-dallasin-en-uzun-gokdelenine-turk-imzasi

 

 

Here's the article translated

 

 

Turkey's tallest skyscraper signature to Dallas

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turkish entrepreneurs Excellent (Mike) Sarımsakcı, four skyscrapers will be perpendicular to the center of Dallas 

The US mortgage crisis in 2008 after taking a cheap price, high values ​​after refreshMarkets talked with Turkish entrepreneurs building Excellent (Mike) Sarımsakcı, nowthe center of the Dallas 4 to erect skyscrapers. 

$ 1.2 billion purchase of 20 thousand square meters of land area in the center of the city for the project Sarımsakcı, the highest skyscraper in the signing said they are prepared to the region. 

In recent years, taking the historic buildings in the US, who restored and re-evaluating Sarımsakcı Turkish businessman, Dallas, will build four skyscrapers in thecity hall right next to the project will begin. The size of the land area of ​​over 20thousand square meters of Chavez Properties Sarımsakcı, they will give one of theskyscrapers in the luxury hotel chain, office blocks others, gave the information that they plan to evaluate the home and the mall. 2 of the planned 80-storey skyscraperwill have 60 floors and the other 2 were. 

Chavez's agreement with Properties project should be made of the land purchase price was not disclosed. On the other hand, the founder and director of Sarımsakcıthat Alterra International, prior to this, again in Dallas, began the construction ofanother 60-storey building. 

CONSTRUCTION BEGINS 2016 

Chavez Properties of land that take a long time ago, after the investment moves in central city starting in the late 1980s meant the beginning of the remaining large landparcels, and this was one of the city's most valuable regions. Michael ChavezProperties Hal Anderson, said in a statement that after the sale, land prepared a very ambitious project, said it was the best decision for Dallas to give Sarımsakcı. 

After obtaining the necessary approval of the purchase and sale agreement isexpected to be completed in January 2015. The planned start date of the project is estimated month of january 2016. 

WORKS HAVE THE FIELD OF ENERGY 

After graduating from Galatasaray High School in Istanbul in the United States in the field of engineering education Sarımsakcı Colorado State University, then began to take part in the construction project. Sarımsakcı professionally involved in manygroup in 2009, has signed with 2009'l many projects, especially in America and established his own company. 

Sarımsakcı Dallas finally built in the 1960s, from 1990 renewing take an unused 18-storey building here since, culture, business and shopping center had made.Sarımsakcı is known for its building renovation project in the US, there are a variety of projects in Dallas. Turkish businessmen also doing work in tourism and energy.Aeolus undertaking the work in the energy field of the Group Apollo Alto company isundertaking projects outside the United States. 

BE THE LONGEST! 

In a statement to the Dallas Business Journal "states west of the Mississippi will takethe longest two twin signature skyscraper," said Perfect Sarımsakcı, "We'll do it.Dallas needs such a work light hair, "he said. 

Beginning of the project, the completion of the information that they will act immediately on behalf of Sarımsakcı, underlines the readiness of the money required for this draw, also briefed of the many investors take part in this international project. 

The project is based in Dallas will draw the architectural firm HOK. The planned hotelwill have 200 rooms and is aiming to be the most luxurious in the city. Sarımsakcı,first announced to attract dozens of brand Prada with Dallas in the top categories, including Four Seasons.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Dallaz

[Luminare]

Why can't we just be proud as Texans that Dallas is going to get something like this? Instead of complaining like babies. History shows that Dallas has usually been where things happen first (not always of course) and then it filters down to Houston. Hell I want this to go up because then it would freakin wake people up and start getting developers down here to think a little bigger! No city exists in a vacuum. What happens to one city soon affects the other and vice-versa. Both Dallas and Houston are going to be some of the fastest growing cities in the country in the next couple decades so both will get their fair share of glory when it comes to architecture. Soon enough though barriers of old thinking will crumble and Houston will get some as well. Until then lets enjoy a fellow texas city grow. Big D getting some love! Keep it goin Dallas, but don't put on the breaks because Houston is never to far behind and one day this city will be the one that even you look too. Mark my words  

[cloud713]

Why can't we just be proud as Texans that Dallas is going to get something like this? Instead of complaining like babies. History shows that Dallas has usually been where things happen first (not always of course) and then it filters down to Houston. Hell I want this to go up because then it would freakin wake people up and start getting developers down here to think a little bigger! No city exists in a vacuum. What happens to one city soon affects the other and vice-versa. Both Dallas and Houston are going to be some of the fastest growing cities in the country in the next couple decades so both will get their fair share of glory when it comes to architecture. Soon enough though barriers of old thinking will crumble and Houston will get some as well. Until then lets enjoy a fellow texas city grow. Big D getting some love! Keep it goin Dallas, but don't put on the breaks because Houston is never to far behind and one day this city will be the one that even you look too. Mark my words

Believe me; I would be one of the first to congratulate Dallas of they finally got a super tall.. But this plan is completely unreasonable and destined to fail as currently proposed, so I just don't see this being it. Maybe the Perot site?

[Luminare]

The fact of the matter is that we both don't live in Dallas nor are we stake holders in this project.....so why be constrained by the thoughts of "is this unreasonable", "this will fail as currently proposed". Why think this way? I simply do not understand that kind of pessimism (this is btw not an attack on you personally. I'm simply asking a innocent question here). I literally can never understand things such as this unless you are the; end-user, you are loaning this project money, the designer of the project, the city of Dallas, or the CEO of this Turkish company. If you aren't one of those players in this game then we are relegated to being bystanders, and instead of being the doubter I would rather be the cheerleader (or since I went to A&M a Yell Leader lol). You are right. Nothing here is set in stone, and maybe it does seem extremely fantastical, but I think I said this in the High Speed Rail thread...what is preventing some in here from really thinking big or thinking at the next level pushing the boundaries of what is possible. 

[Pegasus]

I'll just quote SMF's crazy, likely-drug-fueled rants to post my sincere thoughts on this.

Proposals for new towers and actual new towers under construction are 2 entirely different things. Both Houston & Dallas should know this fact very well from all the skyscrapers that died on the drawing board in Texas during the Oil Bust. And considering oil prices are falling currently, you'd think you'll see jitters instead jubilation (as exhibited by SMF) on these threads...

Considering the timing and real estate makeup of the DFW area, a rumored proposal for 2 60-story & 2 80-story towers, a project literally the size & scope of the new WTC complex in Lower Manhattan that's taken 15 years to build (and is still not complete), in a central business district with current +%20 vacancy rate doesn't seem very likely to obtain financing necessary to become a reality. And let's not forget this is from a Turkish developer that has a history of failed projects OP even referenced. For me, Perot's Gateway project is the one to watch. But considering the previously stated facts, it doesnt seem likely to leap off the drawing board in the near term without a major tenant signed.

If I'm wrong and these do become reality, you'll have the Lone Star equivalent of the Miami skyline - empty shells. Considering the lesson being learned there, I don't see that mistake being made by banks or developers a second time, especially in a locale not as attractive as South Beach.

Wrong. Dallas' vacancy rate is not over 20% as you claim. It has dropped to 18% and leasing has jumped five times what it was last year. Not to mention major corporations are moving to Dallas from left and right. Companies that include Charles Schwab and Toyota. This whole "vacancy" argument you guys keep pulling hasn't the merit it once had. Things are changing. Get over it. Get over yourselves. 

[Pegasus]

You're serious? Lmfao!!!

Downtown Dallas still has an OVER 25% VACANCY RATE. If you aren't good at math that means over 1 in 4 spaces in downtown Dallas are EMPTY.

"With 26.9 percent of the space empty, downtown Dallas had the highest central business district vacancy among the more than one dozen cities CBRE surveyed."

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/03/dallas-office-vacancy-dips-below-18-percent.html/

The only reason Dallas didn't "build tall" the last 2 decades and are having to focus on rehabbing old properties is because downtown Dallas is in such miserable shape...

Not to mention the dozens of empty condos in museum tower... This project just seems like a flop from the get go.

And did you just say dfw is becoming the central logistics hub for North America? Omg this is too funny. Don't like 7 of the 8 busiest rail lines in the country run through CHICAGO??? You guys will never pass them.

Oh.. Dallas doesn't lead (or take second) at anything. Dfw might..

This post is an amazing contradiction which begs to question what your real prejudice is. It the article you post, the title of the article alone contradicts your statement of over 25% vacancy rate! "Dallas Office Vacancy Dips Below 18 Percent" is the title of the article.

 

"With 26.9 percent of the space empty, downtown Dallas had the highest central business district vacancy among the more than one dozen cities CBRE surveyed."

 

Ok, let's examine this specific quote. When examining a sentence it is good to thoroughly analyze the usage of words. You know, semantics. At first glance this statement alone seems to contradict the entire article. However, be not deceived. Look for key words. The key word here is "had". "...downtown HAD the highest.." "Had". Had is a past tense word. It is not present it is past tense. So this percentage is an old number. 

 

You do realize that one of the busiest transcontinental rail lines in the US runs straight through DFW, right? And elaborate on what you mean by the 7 of the 8 busiest rail lines. Is that subjective to certain companies? There are only about 5 Class I railroads in the US. Three of which run trains into Dallas: Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe and Kansas City Southern. The UP and BNSF being the two largest systems in the US and Canada. The Union Pacific has its massive ship container rail yard in Hutchins and the BNSF is in talks about opening a container rail yard in Dallas as well. Massive growth in population is taking place in Dallas. DFW is the sixth most popular moving destination in the country. That is one of the reasons why there are massive billion dollar upgrades taking place with both Fort Worth and Dallas' freeway networks. The Horseshoe Project and the LBJ expansion as prime examples. Dallas is changing into a world class city. DART is the largest light rail network in the entire United States and there are more plans for its expansion. DART now runs a train straight to DFW. Another major development is the growth of warehousing, another reason why the city is becoming a central logistics hub for the US.Within the U.S., 79 markets can be reached overnight from Dallas/Fort Worth by truck or rail. And the Metroplex puts 

you right in the geographic center of the North American continent’s four major business centers: New York, Los Angeles, Toronto and Mexico City. The Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex is one of the largest points of distribution and logistics in the United States and has become the premier supply chain and logistics center for the entire Western Hemisphere. Since the passage of NAFTA, the D/FW Metroplex’s trade to Mexico and Canada has more than doubled to $2.3 Billion. This is in large part due to the fact that the Metroplex has the logistics infrastructure to serve Mexico and its population of more than 100 million people. Interstate 35 - often called the “NAFTA Superhighway” - is the perfect conduit from Mexico through Texas to Canada. DFW International Airport is the third busiest in the U.S. and the sixth busiest in the world. LOL Troll harder Dallas hater.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Pegasus

[cloud713]

This post is an amazing contradiction which begs to question what your real prejudice is. It the article you post, the title of the article alone contradicts your statement of over 25% vacancy rate! "Dallas Office Vacancy Dips Below 18 Percent" is the title of the article.

"With 26.9 percent of the space empty, downtown Dallas had the highest central business district vacancy among the more than one dozen cities CBRE surveyed."

Ok, let's examine this specific quote. When examining a sentence it is good to thoroughly analyze the usage of words. You know, semantics. At first glance this statement alone seems to contradict the entire article. However, be not deceived. Look for key words. The key word here is "had". "...downtown HAD the highest.." "Had". Had is a past tense word. It is not present it is past tense. So this percentage is an old number.

You do realize that one of the busiest transcontinental rail lines in the US runs straight through DFW, right? And elaborate on what you mean by the 7 of the 8 busiest rail lines. Is that subjective to certain companies? There are only about 5 Class I railroads in the US. Three of which run trains into Dallas: Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe and Kansas City Southern. The UP and BNSF being the two largest systems in the US and Canada. The Union Pacific has its massive ship container rail yard in Hutchins and the BNSF is in talks about opening a container rail yard in Dallas as well. Massive growth in population is taking place in Dallas. DFW is the sixth most popular moving destination in the country. That is one of the reasons why there are massive billion dollar upgrades taking place with both Fort Worth and Dallas' freeway networks. The Horseshoe Project and the LBJ expansion as prime examples. Dallas is changing into a world class city. DART is the largest light rail network in the entire United States and there are more plans for its expansion. DART now runs a train straight to DFW. Another major development is the growth of warehousing, another reason why the city is becoming a central logistics hub for the US.Within the U.S., 79 markets can be reached overnight from Dallas/Fort Worth by truck or rail. And the Metroplex puts

you right in the geographic center of the North American continent’s four major business centers: New York, Los Angeles, Toronto and Mexico City. The Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex is one of the largest points of distribution and logistics in the United States and has become the premier supply chain and logistics center for the entire Western Hemisphere. Since the passage of NAFTA, the D/FW Metroplex’s trade to Mexico and Canada has more than doubled to $2.3 Billion. This is in large part due to the fact that the Metroplex has the logistics infrastructure to serve Mexico and its population of more than 100 million people. Interstate 35 - often called the “NAFTA Superhighway” - is the perfect conduit from Mexico through Texas to Canada. DFW International Airport is the third busiest in the U.S. and the sixth busiest in the world. LOL Troll harder Dallas hater.

Wow, can you not read??? DOWNTOWN Dallas has a 26% vacancy rate. The city or metro is at 18%. Last I checked were talking about a project IN downtown Dallas. So those numbers are pretty relevant.

And I think you're reading too far into that "had". Obviously those types of numbers can't be kept 100% up to date, but those were the most recent numbers available at the time the article was published. Find more up to date numbers that have been posted in the last 6 months and prove me wrong that downtown Dallas doesn't have a ridiculously high vacancy rate.

Are you just listing Dallas projects now? LOL

Are you talking about those empty trains to DFW airport? Yeah, congrats on that super successful rail line.

So it's becoming one of the larger/more important center of logistics in the U.S., yet is the best one in the Western Hemisphere? Lmao, you are the contradictor, kid.

Btw, i69 (which runs through Houston, not dfw) is also referred to the NAFTA super highway, possibly even more so than i35.

Oh, and we have a REAL port for shipping/logistics. It moved the most international tonnage of any port in the country. It happens to be closer to Mexico and with it being much easier and cheaper to ship into the port of Houston than the land port of Dfw, I don't see why they wouldn't start trucking stuff down i69 from the port.

2.3 billion dollars? Lol, the gdp of the Houston area was like 500 billion last year. 2.3 billion is pretty damn insignificant.

Troll harder Houston hater. I'm not even sure why you are on this forum but I never would of said anything if it weren't for your ridiculous rant.

[Subdude]

Obviously warning about trolling has zero effect on trolls and those who respond to them.

 

Closed.