Set Love Free?

[Willy1]

For those of you interested in finding out for yourself about Wright, Southwest, DFW Airport and the histories of Dallas and Fort Worth in the whole deal:

http://setlovefree.com/index.html

http://www.fightwright.org/index.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

713 to 214, are you a SWA employee? The first website you offer is a SWA website. I'm not sure abou the sponsor of the second website, but it curiously doesn't clearly state who sponsored/posted the second site.

[RedScare]

The Morning News article was interesting. I guess we can watch Republicans attack Republicans. In general, senators will not vote for a bill if the local senator is opposed to it. But, it appears that this one may have Texas reps on both sides of it, although both Texas senators look to be opposed. Could be interesting.

BTW, fightwright.org is just a front site for SWA, so I would be loathe to quote it as fact.

[Willy1]

Well, then both of those sites are SWA sponsered sites.... They also have a tv commercial dedicated to repealing the Wright Amendment.... I saw it tonight.

So, 713/214, are you a SWA employee - or have you ever been?

[Willy1]

A couple updates on the Wright Amendment:

1. Yesterday AA posted quarterly earnings of $58 Million, an indication that things are looking up for AA. They said the profit is due to the number of flyers finally exceeding the price of fuel.

2. State Senator John Ensign of Nevada has introduced a bill to repeal the Wright Amendment today, it's called The Right to Fly Act.

3. Meanwhile, Senators James Inhofe of Oklahoma and Tom Harkin of Iowa have introduced a bill to restrict all fights from Love Field, essentially shutting down Love Field in 3 years and requiring SWA to move to DFW. It's called the "True Competition Act".

There was a story on Good Morning Texas on Channel 8 just minutes ago that detailed all these points. Additionally, there has been an independent study by The Boyd Group that throws cold water on both SWA and AA claims over the Wright Amendment, stating that both sides are blowing it out of proportion.

"The first claim their study tested was that Dallas Love Field travel would expand dramatically if Wright passes. The study found the airport facility would actually limit expansion of Love Field. Location, gate limits, and street traffic will constrain Southwest's growth and in the long term put Love Field at a disadvantage.

Another claim it countered was that frequent flyers would choose Love Field over Dallas/Fort Worth. The study found as the population moves north and west from Dallas, Love Field is less convenient as a gateway. While Dallas and Park Cities flyers may find the airport closer, many others do not.

Researchers said when Legend Airlines and others added long distance flights in smaller jets from Love Field the experiment flopped.

As for the claim that repealing Wright would hurt American Airlines, the study found that Southwest would see a boost at Love Field, but their options would be limited there too. Travelers would have more options and access at D/FW.

The study found that Southwest's reliance on its shorter haul 737 fleet, would make it tough to compete with American Airlines in long haul markets.

Boyd Group researchers conclude if both airlines stay put and Wright is repealed, American Airlines has the best shot at dominance."

Like I've always said, SWA is waking a sleeping giant if they go head to head with AA. AA didn't become the world's largest airline by being nice and not fighting for their place in the market. Basically, it boils down to which Airline has contributed the most money to the most influential Senator's campaigns.

[MidtownCoog]

I worked at Love when Legend began operations. All first class seats (50) with flights to NYC and DC.

Stupidity is the reason that bird could not fly.

And FWIW the 737 is no short haul aircrat. Southwest has non-stops from BWI to LAX. That's coast to coast.

I like what Herb had to say:

Southwest says it has no interest in moving to D/FW.

"That is like Wal-Mart saying to the hardware store, 'I have a nice piece of land next to my SuperCenter. Come over and compete and get sliced to death,' " Southwest chairman Herb Kelleher said Tuesday.

[Willy1]

I think Herb Kellerher has one of the best personalities of all the CEO's in the corp world. He's funny. But, I am sort of against the Wright Amendment repeal because I don't want to see SWA or AA hurt... I think the repeal will do more to hurt SWA than it will to help it. AA is going to go into "Walmart mode" if they repeal the amendment and I think that SWA is too small to compete with AA.... I know they're the underdog and everyone loves the underdog and all that. I just hate to see them forced to compete with AA and the other "big boys". I think the reason they've been so sucessful at Love is because they have filled a good niche there. I think it's a matter of "don't fix what isn't broken". I'm worried they're going to end up regretting the repeal if they actually do manage to win that battle. And, I call it a battle, because it will be the first of many in a long war if they get the Wright Amendment dumped.

[713 To 214]

I think Herb Kellerher has one of the best personalities of all the CEO's in the corp world. He's funny. But, I am sort of against the Wright Amendment repeal because I don't want to see SWA or AA hurt... I think the repeal will do more to hurt SWA than it will to help it. AA is going to go into "Walmart mode" if they repeal the amendment and I think that SWA is too small to compete with AA.... I know they're the underdog and everyone loves the underdog and all that. I just hate to see them forced to compete with AA and the other "big boys". I think the reason they've been so sucessful at Love is because they have filled a good niche there. I think it's a matter of "don't fix what isn't broken". I'm worried they're going to end up regretting the repeal if they actually do manage to win that battle. And, I call it a battle, because it will be the first of many in a long war if they get the Wright Amendment dumped.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Southwest is the nation's most profitable airline. It has held that title for several years now. Additionally, many low fare/legacy carriers are now trying to duplicate Southwest's business practices. The company didn't achieve that status by making illconceived/miscalculated businness decisions. American, on the other hand, has had significant difficulty turning a profit during the past 6 years. This is due to many issues (i.e.labor disputes, fuel costs, too much investment in infrastructure). American, while the world's largest airline, is still trying to come back from the brink of bankruptcy, and its problems are a direct result of its business practices/corporate culture.

I doubt that many congressmen in Washington view Southwest as the underdog in this fight. They have established a track record that says "we know what we're doing, we know how to make money, we don't have to ask the government to bail us out, and we do all of these good things while providing the traveling public with some of the lowest airfares in the country." That makes the value of their "good will" skyrocket in the halls of congress. Now, American on the other hand, has been on the brink of filing bankruptcy, been forced to get rid of its CEO for what I characterize as bad business practices, had to request numerous government bailouts, had to request the president to step in to save it form its pilots and flight attendants unions striking. After considering all of that, you tell me who is going to be viewed more favorably in Washington.

American is not eager to go toe-to-toe with Southwest, as many may think. The track record of disputes between the two show Southwest beating American every time. Southwest is more liquid than AA, and as a result, is better positioned to withstand this fight. AA on the other hand is in the process of undrgoing some major changes in its business model. This fight over Love Field forces them to divert time, energy, and money to lobbying efforts as opposed to building their business. Believe me, AA (nor DFW Airport) wants this fight, and both are afraid of going up against Southwest.

[713 To 214]

DeLay voices support of Wright repeal

01:18 PM CDT on Wednesday, July 20, 2005

By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - The push to lift flight restrictions at Dallas

[banking214]

This is such a joke. Just repeal it and be done with it. I suggest they close both airports and make us fly out of Houston or Austin.

[MidtownCoog]

So what do y'all Dallas folks think of a Kansas and Oklahoma proposal to close Love Field?

[713 To 214]

So what do y'all Dallas folks think of a Kansas and Oklahoma proposal to close Love Field?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It ain't going to happen. It was tried about 30 years ago, when Southwest first started. The parties went to court, and the courts sided with Southwest. That's why the Wright Amendment came into being in the first place. That proposed legislation is just political posturing.

[713 To 214]

This is such a joke. Just repeal it and be done with it. I suggest they close both airports and make us fly out of Houston or Austin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fat chance! DFW International Airport is headquarters for the Worlds largest airline (AA), and Love Field is headquarters for the nation's most profitable (SW).

Houston should be concerned, though, with how repeal of the Wright Amendment will affect Southwest's operations at Hobby Airport. Because Southwest can't fly to most of the country directly from Love Field, the airline routes many connecting flights through Hobby. (i.e. to go to BWI from Dallas, one has to fly through Hobby first). As a result, Hobby is a pretty good size hub of traffic for Southwest. I would expect that to change once the restrictions are lifted.

[MidtownCoog]

Worlds largest airline (AA)!

Yeah, that sure has not helped them much lately!

Kinda like the world's fattest man.

Too many Wharton MBAs at AA.

[RedScare]

DeLay voices support of Wright repeal

01:18 PM CDT on Wednesday, July 20, 2005

By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - The push to lift flight restrictions at Dallas

[Willy1]

713 to 214, you still never answered the question of whether or not you or someone in your family works/worked for SWA... Just curious since the two websites you offered were SWA hosted/sponsored websites.

BTW, AA hasn't been "nearly bankrupt" for a couple years. They've posted lossed, but not huge losses. The last couple years they've been moving closer and closer to being int he black and yesterday - for the first time in 5 years - they posted a $58 Million profit for the quarter. It was all over the news today.

I personally don't want to see the amendment repealed because I think it will actually hurt everyone involved - DFW, Love, AA, and SWA. I don't think SWA can do much to expand at Love Field - it's too limited by space and there are noise restrictions that need to stay in place that will not allow larger aircraft to fly in/out of Love... Unlike DFW the planes at Love take off and land right over residential areas that are directly across the street from Love field. That is the most overlooked part of the Wright Amendment. Another thing that a lot of people don't think about/realize is that the take off/landing patterns for Love Field are directly over downtown Dallas.... I think there are FAA regulations/restrictions governing flights around downtown Dallas as well.... I don't know how that will be affected if Wright is repealed.

Another thing that I personally don't like about SWA is the security of flying in a cattle call system. I have only flown on SWA one time since 911 - and that's because I had a free voucher. The reason I don't like flying SWA post 911 is because they still offer cattle call seating on their planes. The last time I flew, I flew ticketless and just showed up at the gate with a picture ID and my voucher. They glanced at my ID and let me on board a plane that has no manifest with assigned seating. They may know who is on the plane, but in my opinion, the need to know what seat everyone is sitting in as well. How is a sky marshall going to intervene in mid air if he has a tip that there is a security threat on board, but can't tell what seat that person is in?

Anyway, this debate can go on forever... It's obvious that 713/214 has some very personal reasons for wanting the Wright Amendment repealed and that's fine. It's one of those things that will never be solved on this forum.

One more thing.... I don't think they should close Love Field. I'm not in favor of that at all. I think that would be a huge mistake. I don't think it would do anyone any good to put SWA and AA in the same airport. If SWA wants to stay at Love, the they should be allowed to stay there... That is where they have become so profitable after all... It would be unfair to SWA to force them to fly in/out of DFW. But, at the same time, I don't think the Amendment should be repealed because it completely screws over the City of FW.... FW is the entity that stands to lose the most in this whole ordeal. Dallas doesn't stand to lose anything.

If it's repealed expect the relationship between Dallas and FW to dry up very quickly and law suits to be filed.... even if it's overturned it will be long from over....

[Willy1]

713 to 214, you still never answered the question of whether or not you or someone in your family works/worked for SWA... Just curious since the two websites you offered were SWA hosted/sponsored websites.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WELL - since you never answered that question, then I'll just go ahead and assume the answer to that is YES.

[MidtownCoog]

I did. Used to see Herb smoking in the elevators, Collen would stop by my office, great deck parties on Fridays.

It was a great place to work.

[skwatra]

Thanks to your efforts, we are one step closer to lifting the restrictions on Love Field. Chipping away at this antiquated law, Congress voted in November to add Missouri to the list of states that Love Field can serve nonstop. On December 13, 2005, Southwest proudly began service to Kansas City and St. Louis, with four nonstops each to and from Dallas Love Field. This is just the beginning and we still need your help throughout 2006 to repeal the Wright Amendment.

they are also chipping away at my nonstop flights from Hobby. STL was my most frequent destination on SW, a few of the flights go though LUV now, though there are still plenty of directs.

[CaptAWACS]

Isn't it cheaper to fly into DFW than any airport Houston? Or are those just for tickets out of DFW?

Houston is normally cheaper, especially Internationally- Houston IAH has more international service, airlines and destinations (Yes DFW is much bigger domestically, but IAH is bigger Internationally)

On a side note - it's not a bad business model that is hurting American Airlines... It's high fuel cost. They are back to pre-911 numbers in terms of the number of people flying... but the cost of fuel is what is keeping them in the red.

Southwest hedged their fuel better and has a lower cost business model. Continental made money in two quarters last year (lost a bit for the year BTW) paying the same for fuel as AA.

I agree that AA could do some things to be more competitive. However, that doesn't change the facts surrounding the Wright Amendment - and how Dallas is trying to backout of their agreement with FW. Hey, I'm all for free enterprise. But whatever happened to having to uphold the legal obligations that a party willingly enters into? What good is a contract if you don't have to hold up your end of the bargain?

........

SWA should fly out of DFW to enable them to fly anywhere they want... They could do that tomorrow if their REAL interest was to increase their number of domestic destinations. They could keep their business model in place at DFW too... They didn't become the world's largest airline by being polite.

Southwest never had to move because it was an intrastate airline at the time. Then through the federal courst, Southwest won the right to fly from Love (via the supreme court) as long as it is open as an airport.

AA became the largest airline by being predatory, just look at Legend airlines. I am not saying that is bad, but look at the history. Southwest's real interest is to make money, as it is a business, not just to increase destinations. And Southwest could not just get 10 gates at DFW, they only offered 20 in a deal that Southwest did not want. (for the record I do not like Southwest much at all) but you have to look at the facts overall. You can find tons of debate at www.airliners.net

Edit, your point about Southwest not wanting AA to come in against them. Trust me, everytime AA has fought Southwest at Love, they have lost. Southwest kicked AA in the last attempt (at he same time AA killed Legend airlines)

Personally, I think the Cattle Call seating on SWA is a security threat.... With AA or any other airline the flight crew knows not only who is on board, but what seat they're in. On SWA, if a terrorist were to make it on board, they could never look at the manifest and tell who was in what seat. That seems risky to me...

No offence, but that is absurd. You are not required to sit in your assinged seat on other airlines. People swap and move all the time. I moved on my flight last Saturday for example. If a terriorist made it on the airplane you lose, it doesn't matter where he sits.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Watching you from 30,000 feet

[MidtownCoog]

I love Southwest. But they are not as innocent as they seem.

Example. Their IAH to DAL flights were always full. A couple continued on to Lubbock and Tulsa after stopping in Dallas. Granted, there were only 5-6 flights a day, but revenue seat mile worked well for them.

Then the DFW/AA/Wright Amendment war began.

Southwest said they could just not operate out of a large airport like DFW. It was not their business model.

Suddenly, Southwest pulled out of IAH siting "small customer loads".

IAH worked, but DFW won't? Yea right! Good job, Herb!

[CaptAWACS]

I love Southwest. But they are not as innocent as they seem.

Example. Their IAH to DAL flights were always full. A couple continued on to Lubbock and Tulsa after stopping in Dallas. Granted, there were only 5-6 flights a day, but revenue seat mile worked well for them.

Then the DFW/AA/Wright Amendment war began.

Southwest said they could just not operate out of a large airport like DFW. It was not their business model.

Suddenly, Southwest pulled out of IAH siting "small customer loads".

IAH worked, but DFW won't? Yea right! Good job, Herb!

True but the loads did not justify using the planes. They were freed up for the new Denver and Philly service. Hobby is working better for fleet utilisation (like I noted in #48)

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, I'm your huckleberry